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Do the majority of mabi players use mods?

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  • RedhenziRedhenzi
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    I personally never have and never will use mods even if they become "official". I don't see a point to them but I have seen numerous people say they use them and like already stated they brag about it or the bad ones call out others cp like that makes them special or op to belittle others for their cp. I wish people would get banned who use them.
    GretaAeolys
  • GretaGreta
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    edited June 14, 2017
    Redhenzi wrote: »
    I personally never have and never will use mods even if they become "official". I don't see a point to them but I have seen numerous people say they use them and like already stated they brag about it or the bad ones call out others cp like that makes them special or op to belittle others for their cp. I wish people would get banned who use them.

    I agree with you 100%. This is literally what i thought when i posted comment here. You can report players who mod and show evidence like screenshot the chat of players who bragged about what CP they have and/or commented about other players CP as well or any other conversation that gives a proof that player has a modded game. I'm really sure that GM will check it out if you make good evidence.
    Excuses like "But people use mods to get better gaming experience in Mabinogi" is a huge bs, because i seen a lot of players who got mods mostly because of those specific benefits that mods can offer. Stop defending cheaters, it makes me sick seeing that.
    AeolysZeoEvielicky
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
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    edited June 14, 2017
    I'd argue mods are not morally wrong in an inherent sense, just not allowed by rule, and can be harmless modifications that provide no advantage. That being said, it is a risky procedure, not only in terms of autobans, but of the keyloggers and such who will try to steal your information.

    I feel there is a difference between not allowed and and the wrongness one with associate with an unfair advantage (Using GM hide in PVP versus a NPC Portrait Change that only the modder can see), and I would argue that there are plenty of unfair advantages due to the game's design that are allowed.

    GretaTwelieZeoPolicromaAeolys[Deleted User]INVU
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,730
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    There are games that allow modding, mainly because there is nothing the mod could do to allow the modder to cheat. Usually they're QoL stuff for raiding and graphical add-ins and the like.

    The problem with Mabi is that too much in game is *STILL* computed client-side. I know there's at least one mod that lets the user specifically type in the hammer-slam score they want. What the heck? And why are people in this thread talking about players being able to use GM-Hide? Any non-GM who tries that should get a big "no way, Sucker!" from the server, regardless of any mods used!

    Because of stuff like this, I do not mod in Mabinogi. If the time ever came that Devcat cleaned up the game to get rid of these vulnerabilities, I'd say go for it. But no player should *ever* be able to GM-hide, dictate their own mini-game scores, shoot farther than their skill allows, etc.
    Greta
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Twelie wrote: »
    But there are mods simply to improve performance. Some people need them to properly run mabi. That's why I wish they would look into a couple of them and see what they can do to help people. I don't exactly see things like that as "cheating".

    Yes, but a few require users to break the anti cheat programs Nexon uses now. Even if the effects are cosmetic, disabling the anti cheat programs is going to be seen as "cheating" to GMs.
  • NamiriNamiri
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,700
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    edited June 14, 2017
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Twelie wrote: »
    But there are mods simply to improve performance. Some people need them to properly run mabi. That's why I wish they would look into a couple of them and see what they can do to help people. I don't exactly see things like that as "cheating".

    Yes, but a few require users to break the anti cheat programs Nexon uses now. Even if the effects are cosmetic, disabling the anti cheat programs is going to be seen as "cheating" to GMs.

    Well if we're talking purely cosmetic stuff from what I know those don't even require disabling the anti-cheat programs. Now if we're talking game breaking cheating hacks like the kind that were found on that notorious den of hackers that we're not allowed to mention those would indeed require disabling the anti-cheat programs.
    [Deleted User]
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
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    edited June 14, 2017
    When I think mods. I think " LF>G3 Finals ".

    It reminds me of those players who bot their party through G3 finals without support puppets pulling 100% no-spawn dungeon orb runs while hitting all of the orbs while mounted on pets that can't actually attack while mounted. And have been doing so for a a year or two before those existed.

    Which isn't an unfair vote from such a biased standpoint. I just want the topic to know I personally hate modders.

    But not modding, I actually look at the demonstrations and videos every now and then when I'm bored, and a lot of the mods do actually help the game run more conveniently without cheating.
    • Like commas for large numbers,
    • changing the stencils around on the iria map so that clicking mana tunnels doesn't make your FPS drop <6fps,
    • position fixes for NPC portraits for players in 32-bit mode
    • enabling antiAliasing without going through the windows registry
    • An ultra low-spec mode for really really old computers... somehow. (One that doesn't involve deleting buildings. That's cheating)
    • etc . ..
    [Deleted User]INVU
  • VioletBoyVioletBoy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,765
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    I thought you guys already forgot that mods are against the rules. It been a year or two I think.
    I only used a Mod once (which was the dye one) and it made me feel uncomfortable. Like some posted, it a risky way to get someone to know your information. I'm one of those players that play the game fairly and would never break a rule.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
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    edited June 14, 2017
    Unlimited range on some skills, unlimited time on mini-games, any other things that definitely change your gameplay into more easy one than the others have does definitely look like a cheating to me. Saying such things like "modding is not cheating" is a nice shield of bs to protect themselves from admitting that all mods are partly a cheat. I really don't want to see a guy who has no time limit on mini-games and gets everything better than me, just because mods "help" them. Why people make silly excuses on modding? I'm shocked. Modding is against ToS, how dare you?...
    ZeoEvielicky
  • PannyaPannya
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    edited June 14, 2017
    i dont think so, i know some ppl use them because their computers are kinda old and devcat programmers are totally incompetent, i dont use them because i dont need them, my pc can run this game without a single problem, although i still dont understand why nexon is against mods, it has been proven many times that mods its a good way to keep ppl interested on the game, in some cases mods can even save very bad games that otherwise never would have survived more than a few months, if the old men can not adapt to the new trends then just gtfo of the game industry.
  • ShaeliShaeli
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    Siodhan wrote: »
    But the sheer possibility of improvement? I've heard of mods that can improve performance, which this game desperately needs, because guess who just doesn't give a damn about the players with older machines?

    Why fix your game when you can just lock out the people having the most problems with it? You literally can't start the game on a 32-bit system anymore, and the biggest problem many people were having was memory-related.

  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
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    edited June 14, 2017
    Pannya wrote: »
    i dont think so, i know some ppl use them because their computers are kinda old

    This is one of many reasons why people use mods, but it's just a nice excuse to make their modding seem more reasonable in my opinion.
    Pannya wrote: »
    i still dont understand why nexon is against mods, it has been proven many times that mods its a good way to keep ppl interested on the game, in some cases mods can even save very bad games that otherwise never would have survived more than a few months, the oldfags really have to gtfo of the game industry.

    Still don't understand??? I just literally said why modding is bad and it's almost same as cheating, but some people still don't get it... If you don't feel interested anymore in this game then you either take a break or just quit this game. Mabinogi is no way a bad game, it's too unique to be bad, but Dev's are indeed not good since they are mostly interested into making gacha instead of actually fixing glitches and changing outdated useless content unless they are forced to, because players are begging for a long time.

    Evielicky
  • badnewsbarrettbadnewsbarrett
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    They clearly aren't against mods if other servers can use approved ones, they're just against NA using them for some reason.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,175
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    edited June 14, 2017
    Shadow missions need a one all use elite pass for tail and one for tara. Kinda of like what happened to dungeon revamp.

    Oh and there are people who can see which spawn orbs not to hit(or hit) in dungeons to maximize drops/prof training/Speedrunning with mods.
    Allowing someone to bypass a perk meant only for Support puppets and Demi-god.
  • GretaGreta
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    edited June 14, 2017
    Rhey wrote: »
    Shadow missions need a one all use elite pass for tail and one for tara. Kinda of like what happened to dungeon adv.

    Uhhhh... What does it have to do with a problem that 60% of games playerbase are still using mods? We are discussing about modders here, not about Elite Shadown Missios.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Oh and there are people who can see which spawn orbs not to hit(or hit) in dungeons to maximize drops/prof training/Speedrunning with mods.
    Allowing someone to bypass a perk meant only for Support puppets and Demi-god.

    Psh, there are A LOT of things there shouldn't be in the mods, because it's basically a cheating with benefits like that. This is why Nexon NA doesn't approve such mods. It's because most perks are for cheating purposes.

  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,730
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    edited June 14, 2017
    They clearly aren't against mods if other servers can use approved ones, they're just against NA using them for some reason.

    I can think of two reasons:

    1. American customers are spoiled. The concept of "scope of support" simply does not compute to many people. Let's not mince words. If Nexon had "supported" mods, they'd be forced to provide tech support for them, to catalog bugs and work with the mods' devs, and actually pick through the mods in question to find what is safe and what is not. It is easier to simply not allow them in the first place. (It's also worth noting that by making mods contraband, it forces players who use them to be their own tech support...)

    2. Liability. Mabi has security issues and mods blow them wide open. If an officially supported mod turns malicious, or some backdoor sneaks through, you know people would try to pull lawsuits. (No matter how stupid that sounds.)

    Thing is... if you have to use anti-cheat software on a multiplayer game, you're doing it wrong. The only way Mabi could EVER allow mods on this side of the pond is if Nexon Korea/Devcat cleaned the game up enormously, to remove all client-side computations or data that can be abused.
    TsumikkiINVU
  • badnewsbarrettbadnewsbarrett
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    Policroma wrote: »
    They clearly aren't against mods if other servers can use approved ones, they're just against NA using them for some reason.

    I can think of two reasons:

    1. American customers are spoiled. The concept of "scope of support" simply does not compute to many people. Let's not mince words. If Nexon had "supported" mods, they'd be forced to provide tech support for them, to catalog bugs and work with the mods' devs, and actually pick through the mods in question to find what is safe and what is not. It is easier to simply not allow them in the first place. (It's also worth noting that by making mods contraband, it forces players who use them to be their own tech support...)

    2. Liability. Mabi has security issues and mods blow them wide open. If an officially supported mod turns malicious, or some backdoor sneaks through, you know people would try to pull lawsuits. (No matter how stupid that sounds.)

    Thing is... if you have to use anti-cheat software on a multiplayer game, you're doing it wrong. The only way Mabi could EVER allow mods on this side of the pond is if Nexon Korea/Devcat cleaned the game up enormously, to remove all client-side computations or data that can be abused.

    I believe it was said somewhere above though that the mods KR use are ones they made themselves, probably taken from ones other players previously made, which I think is a good idea because it's much better than just pulling ones off the internet that they don't know where they're coming from. Why allow "official" mods instead of just adding the stuff right into the game is beyond me, though I guess it's good for people who only want certain mods, and those who don't want them period. That's what I'm saying NA should do, is what KR did. If NA just found random ones made by players, that I wouldn't use or support.
  • GretaGreta
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    I believe it was said somewhere above though that the mods KR use are ones they made themselves, probably taken from ones other players previously made, which I think is a good idea because it's much better than just pulling ones off the internet that they don't know where they're coming from. Why allow "official" mods instead of just adding the stuff right into the game is beyond me, though I guess it's good for people who only want certain mods, and those who don't want them period. That's what I'm saying NA should do, is what KR did. If NA just found random ones made by players, that I wouldn't use or support.

    Yeah, it would be nice if they add their own official mod for players who want to get it. Honestly, it would be even better if they fix all lag and glitches and/or some useful features instead of just slapping in mod on top.

  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    edited June 15, 2017
    Shaeli wrote: »
    Siodhan wrote: »
    But the sheer possibility of improvement? I've heard of mods that can improve performance, which this game desperately needs, because guess who just doesn't give a damn about the players with older machines?

    Why fix your game when you can just lock out the people having the most problems with it? You literally can't start the game on a 32-bit system anymore, and the biggest problem many people were having was memory-related.

    I was one of those that were nearly locked out.I essentially spent more time reloading the effing game than actually playing it. Every single day for over a year I wasted more than half an hour on just restarting the stupid thing. As you can guess, that means I've never resorted to modding, but I am not exactly happy with anything the company does anymore. I am salt itself. Once you are at the butt end of every bit of lack of support that the game can offer you (not just including this), you can only hope that the person in question has been playing for years and doesn't want to quit simply because they don't want to abandon all the effort they put into the game. I can see why nobody wants to play this game anymore though as soon as they start playing. I'm sure mods that make the game run better (until they fix the game or hopefully remake it on a better engine) would definitely help not annoying the crap out of a lot of people who could just spend that time doing more fun things than always reloading the game after crashes. Experience shows, most people do just that.

    EDIT: In case someone's reading this and not the previous posts; I implied that I'm no longer crashing. It's not because it's been fixed - the game's still broken. I got a new computer. I was tired of this and sacrificed financial stability so I could play the game I used to love again.
  • FoxgirlkatieFoxgirlkatie
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    Greta wrote: »
    Redhenzi wrote: »
    I personally never have and never will use mods even if they become "official". I don't see a point to them but I have seen numerous people say they use them and like already stated they brag about it or the bad ones call out others cp like that makes them special or op to belittle others for their cp. I wish people would get banned who use them.

    I agree with you 100%. This is literally what i thought when i posted comment here. You can report players who mod and show evidence like screenshot the chat of players who bragged about what CP they have and/or commented about other players CP as well or any other conversation that gives a proof that player has a modded game. I'm really sure that GM will check it out if you make good evidence.
    Excuses like "But people use mods to get better gaming experience in Mabinogi" is a huge bs, because i seen a lot of players who got mods mostly because of those specific benefits that mods can offer. Stop defending cheaters, it makes me sick seeing that.

    stuff that gives players advantages such as stuff like the ability to detrans in rabbie arena of years past. are Hacks. Not mods.

    Modders are majority those who do harmless things such as alter their characters appearance to their liking, boost game performance such as Frame rate. or just to imbue abit of their own creativity. such as Skyrim. i know i find myself downloading tons of new mods.one of them being a Fox girl Race.

    Hackers/cheaters are those who deliberately alter the game code to suit their favour. are their mods that give a slight benefit? ya but most are very insignificant but more cheats then mods.

    you saying people who are using mods to boost game performance are just using it as a excuse to cheat and gain benefits over other players is very Petty and inconsiderate of you.

    im really wanting a mod that replaces my Char human legs with Digitigrade fox legs with Paw's on the bottom as i love the look of it and idea. and goes more with my characters theme of being a fox girl. are you saying i should be Banned because im wanting to use a harmless Cosmetic only mod which does nothing but alter the looks of my legs on my screen and does nothing to hurt your game play? you wouldn't even see them so what would it matter to you?

    i also saw you saying that you report anyone and wanting them banned for using mods.i take it you even extend that to people using harmless mods that boost game performance or alter something cosmetically on their screen? that makes you look like nothing more then a Ass hole.

    and i know theres modders out there in gaming who use just cosmetic mods in games that do delve a slight bit into Hacks but dont use them. but have no problem using it on absolutely destroying someones Account. who reported and got them banned just for using cosmetic mods. such as making his character look like Master Chief from Halo on his screen.

    i know my brother did that to someone on one of his games. for getting his 5 year old account Permanently banned for just using a Mod that turned his character into Batman aesthetically. so my brother hacked into the guys account and 100% reset the guys account to scratch. making him start all over from the very beginning after spending 6 years on it. my brother hasn't regretted it since. remarking. "dont play with fire if you dont wanna get burned"

    implying that the guy shouldn't report someone just modding the game aesthetically for fun if they dont want it to backfire and get their account destroyed or whatever because they dont know if he knows how to hack or not. and honestly after what the guy did to my brother for getting him banned i dont blame him for killing the guys account since he basically ruined 5 long years of hard work for my brother so my brother just chose to return the favour.

    point being. Modders arnt cheaters. unless they want to be to get back at you for getting them banned. which you have to watch out for. people like my brother are completely Harmless and ok with you unless you get them banned for something so petty as using a cosmetic mod. Mods are good.Hacks are back.
    Ariastar
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