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Talk: does archery need rebalanced?

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  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,100
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    Greta wrote: »
    You all keep whining about archery, but here i'm waiting for Nexon to finally fix and make fighter more useful not just im PvP but also in PvE too.

    Fighter needs an AoE skill other than drop kick. That's all I really need. And more cool chain combos!
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,865
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    Archery has a high dps ceiling but needs a LOT of investment to get there. Its damage is largely gear (reforge) reliant and depending on where you live you may experience too much lag. It's also rng based so you will, inevitably, curse this game, the world, and whatever gods may be listening because you've missed like five shots in a row and died...more than once. Still it is pretty fun/good if you can squeeze out enough damage, I do really like the idea of moving damage out of the reforges and into the skills though, as well as making Radiant Strings a LOT more common.

    Maybe also make better bow enchants.
    AlmostNotsuperJunpaku
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,695
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    I don't use archery, even on my elf, because I've read that it doesn't have 100% accuracy like all of the other ranged skillsets. I'm not wasting time on a ranged skill that requires me to buy/make ammo and is the only ranged skill that can actually miss its target. I don't care how good that wound damage can be, I'm not playing with a skill that could have me wasting up ammo from missed shots. Plus, the charge times are pretty crummy compared to basic bolt spells or Water Cannon. Because there are better ranged options, I just ignore archery all together.
    AlmostNotsuperPepperLimeBehelit
  • MissDevichiMissDevichi
    Mabinogi Rep: 625
    Posts: 59
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    edited July 4, 2017
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Also i heard archery is the current meta for phantasm and alban.

    Who did you hear this from?;

    From an elf.

    Yup.
    Pew pew pew!
    :3

    Yeah 'cause as a human archer, it's just easier to do phantasm with melee and magic for alban. > A>
    ... unless it's literally just elf hide that's good.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
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    edited July 4, 2017
    -Vision of Ladeca is obviously a band-aid fix, and thus is bad.
    -Lag is more of a problem than aim speed, although a general boost in aim speed would still be appreciated. It obviously helps.
    -This is especially true of final shot; skills seem to take longer to load while it's active
    -In addition to fixing that delay, some extra duration on FS wouldn't hurt. If the delay can't be fixed, I'd say it's needed.
    -Mirage missile is fine, although I kinda wish the DoT would either reliably kill enemies, or never kill them so I'd know what to expect. Would also be nice if it spread a little faster

    While all talents don't necessarily have to be capable of the exact same things, it absolutely does matter how well they perform in comparison to each other. Sure, archery isn't the worst in every possible way, and sure there are other talents that could use some work. That doesn't mean archery doesn't need any, nor does it mean it's not the worst overall (although I'm not here to argue that it is). Archery's problem is that it's slow and unreliable. Because of that, it can perform terribly anywhere; it's bad both offensively and defensively. Alchemy may have low damage, but any enemy you attack will be stunned or knocked back - not that it matters since you'll be wearing a guard cylinder and heavy armor anyway. Martial arts may be slow and bad for fighting multiple enemies at once, but at least a fighter can pull out a quick charging strike every few seconds. And with both of these options, you still have close combat to fall back to, and you can quickly and easily resume using whatever you were before.

    It's called game balance. Probably a pretty foreign concept on these forums, considering it's been absent from Mabi for some time now (if you ask some people, it was never present), but I think we could use some.

    So, does archery need to be re-balanced? I think so. Maybe even 'reworked', as someone said. So do the other talents, even the good ones. In addition to having their own unique flow of combat, each talent should ideally have strengths and weaknesses. Instead what we have are tiered talents: some are clearly better than the others is most every situation, and it's often only because of one or two spammable skills. Magic should be slower in general to compensate for the great damage, close combat needs to not be bash/fh spam, even archery could probably use some kind of range limit, make it more about maintaining a certain amount of distance than just spamming arrows from anywhere, even point blank. That kind of thing. It would also help if stats other than damage and piercing level mattered. Injury means nothing 98% of the time, to name one thing.

    This turned into a wall quick.
    PepperLimelceCreamBuffalosZeoTwelieRadiant Dawn
  • InfighterInfighter
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,125
    Posts: 38
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    edited July 4, 2017
    What they need to do is to start focusing on other skillsets rather than just combat, magic and archery (maybe some tweaks about it but still they're pretty deadly). But honestly those skillsets have been getting way too much love or at least they're every update release it has to be either combat, magic or archery, yet people still whining about them as they want them to be strong than some already are.

    They should now focus mainly on making other skillsets better and fix their glitches, add newer skills and rework their damage or supportiveness to have relevance in newer dungeons or future content and that is:

    Alchemy (needs to add more usefulness to already old content skills) Fighter (needs to be reworked badly, very outdated ) Puppetry (more acts skills), Dual guns (more skills), Hidden skills.
  • TNinjaTNinja
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,145
    Posts: 1,167
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    Archery doens't need a rebalance. It needs help.
    AlmostNotsuperInfighterPepperLimeTheDumbOneZeoSphyra21TwelieRadiant DawnTairikuBehelit
  • FavrielFavriel
    Mabinogi Rep: 440
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    I'm pretty sure Kr got a combo card event to make your own combo so we should be getting it
  • InfighterInfighter
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,125
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    edited July 4, 2017
    Favriel wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure Kr got a combo card event to make your own combo so we should be getting it

    We'll get something better than a combo card event. We get Dan revamp that lets you edit manually your existing combo cards for reaching a dan rank. Only counts for Dan skills

  • Sphyra21Sphyra21
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,555
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    Elven archer here, archery doesn't need to be rebalanced it needs to rebuilt and buffed.

    I feel really useless in most newer dungeons/shadowMissions/raids because NX of KR won't take into account that the USA is waaaaaaaaaay behind them in terms of internet technologies (gee thanks greedy internet providers who are holding us back) [oops that's a rant for another time].
    As I've stated before, cool down times on archery skills need to be removed with the exception of Final Shot and Arrow Revolver. And even if they can't remove the CDs completely, they need to be reduced majorly.

    ok i'm gonna stop here before I run on this tangent AGAIN
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
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    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    NX of KR won't take into account that the USA is waaaaaaaaaay behind them in terms of internet technologies (gee thanks greedy internet providers who are holding us back) [oops that's a rant for another time].

    I hope that time comes soon. I'd like to see this rant.
  • Sphyra21Sphyra21
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,555
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    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    NX of KR won't take into account that the USA is waaaaaaaaaay behind them in terms of internet technologies (gee thanks greedy internet providers who are holding us back) [oops that's a rant for another time].

    I hope that time comes soon. I'd like to see this rant.

    For real? i'd probably have to type it all up in word then copy-paste it to a thread.....
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 199
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    edited July 4, 2017
    Another reason why archery is bad is b/c dex is just useless. Almost as useless as will but at least will gives crit. Dex is only used for 2 talents puppets and archery. You don't really need that much damage for puppets and ppl use it just for crisis anyway. Str, however, is used in every single worthwhile skill. Combat, guns, ninja, and puppets.
    So unless they're THAT dedicated to archery, they're not going to be using it when you can just go str and have the damage spread across multiple talents. Or unless they're endgame and maxed everything.
    Danievictria
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
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    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    Elven archer here, archery doesn't need to be rebalanced it needs to rebuilt and buffed.

    Agreed. Figuring how this rebuild can be accomplished in a way that isn't reliant on single-digit ping and also not turn it into another final hit is going to be difficult.
    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    NX of KR won't take into account that the USA is waaaaaaaaaay behind them in terms of internet technologies (gee thanks greedy internet providers who are holding us back) [oops that's a rant for another time].

    I hope that time comes soon. I'd like to see this rant.

    For real? i'd probably have to type it all up in word then copy-paste it to a thread.....

    Put it in a paste bin: these forums have a stupidly small character limit, and I have a feeling a good rant on that subject will go well over it.
  • RheyRhey
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    Archery still has that aiming bug. Firing 100% arrow and missing feels awkward...
  • PanPan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,745
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    edited July 5, 2017
    Archery is one of the best skillsets in the game. But to make use of it, you need to have a good ping for it to feel fluid and fast. Nothing is wrong with archery at all.
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
    Posts: 342
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    like this if:
    You think the auto-load should be choose-able, and you can just auto-load magnum or last selected skill instead of "archery mastery"
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
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    Greta wrote: »
    You all keep whining about archery, but here i'm waiting for Nexon to finally fix and make fighter more useful not just in PvP but also in PvE too.

    here you are complaining about fighter and half the skills+ of alchemy are broken or no longer can be used/removed from new content.
    P.S. Looking for fighter F1 and F2 to be optional hot keys as my F1 key broken
    P.S.S Looking for the new music jam to be re-hotkeys as my F1 key broken.
  • LiberateLiberate
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,020
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    Archery definitely needs a consistency update to where it doesn't need to be reliant on expensive gear and a decent connection.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
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    edited July 5, 2017
    Rhey wrote: »
    Archery still has that aiming bug. Firing 100% arrow and missing feels awkward...

    I think the aim "bug" is a latency thing: your client is displaying 100% when the server hasn't yet counted to 100% on it's end.
    Pan wrote: »
    Archery is one of the best skillsets in the game.But to make use of it, you need to have a good ping for it to feel fluid and fast. Nothing is wrong with archery at all.

    1) In order for archery to be comparable to other skillsets in terms of damage (guns, close combat, ninja) you need to have top quality reforges. My final hit slashes can hit 20K on a crit with absolutely no reforges but I can barely hit 9k with a single critical magnum shot with similar enchant damage and modifiers. 10k sounds nice and all, but I can get 30 FH slashes in under 10 seconds and can barely get 3 mags in that same time frame. This is a problem.
    See my post down below: I realize this comparison between skills is actually kinda bad given that I have critical damage modifiers on the swords. This post is kinda skewed from what I wanted to make clear here: archery cannot be reliably spammed quickly and easily where as every other skill set can be.
    2) If I had better ping, I could magnum revolver and easily up my archery DPS to be double what it is right now: and my ping to the server is just 50ms. Again, this is a problem.
    lceCreamLiberateZeoAlmostNotsuperValkirye
This discussion has been closed.