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Potion Making out of date and Chain Blade

FalmostaFalmosta
Mabinogi Rep: 1,260
Posts: 64
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edited July 23, 2017 in General Chat
So even though 300 pots can be made in game, Clovers them selves as VERY Time consuming to get a lot of them. I was Hopeing that a Revamp on potion making or materiel gathering is Expanded on in the future. Main because the way potion making is right now it was Largely designed with HP caps around 300 to 400 hp. But with the Talent system and all the knew skills. The average for potions has Ben thrown way off I wouldn't mind using things like herb powder from magic craft to make 300's easier to make. Not To mention the fact that potion Poisoning doesn't care what you make MP or HP is... The toxicity doesn't scale to a players non transformation hp. Still When discussing this with Fellow players we soon came to a Realization that would change the way you look at the upcoming content..... Chain Blade is Luck and Dex.... Two skill stats that are unaffected by potion poison. This would effectively make it that Chain would break the reason why they had put potion Poisoning in the game. So I am Not sure What they intended to do to fix that if they even will.... since range doesn't have the issue of Potion poison to worry about when it comes to the bad side effects as well.

I figured this would be a interesting topic of discussion and I would like to see what others think of this matter. I personally would like to see Skills like Fragmentation (adding in Magic craft and engineering items into the list.) As well as Potion Making revamped in the future. I know many people use RE's but those run out eventuality and the potion making skill would be a lot more useful if it was updated in my opinion or adding a second class of potion making for higher end pots that require certain ranks in potion making would also be acceptable. It would also be nice to eventually see the other herbs for homesteads that are not a peaceable object yet.

Comments

  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,195
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    With a big enough HP/MP/SP pool, it's eventually LESS Toxic to use Full Recovery Potions for general-purpose recovery.

    Wanna talk about something being out of date, talk about the terribad HP/SP recovery of the Respite skill.
    Hoo boy.

    I do agree that Four-Leaf Clovers are incredibly inaccessible, so much so that making your own 300pt potions for the purpose of recovery, is very unrealistic.
    Not to mention how toxic such potions are.
    Can enter potion poisoning after just 6 or 7 of them.

    The best are, of course, SE Potions.
    They can even get as big as 1000, with their recovery effects.
    But those aren't craftable!
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
    Posts: 765
    Member
    Ask your friend that spam festia everyday for four leaf clover, they usually have tens of them unless thrown away.

    Shield of thrust recovery and nimbus is usually good enough for me.

    If you are doing dragon raid, those spit out se pots from time to time.

    Idea to counter pot poisoning ?
    They should have made portable hot spring instead of portable repairing altar.
    Would be cool if it have "work better if equipment is removed" effect.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,195
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Ask your friend that spam festia everyday for four leaf clover, they usually have tens of them unless thrown away.

    Shield of thrust recovery and nimbus is usually good enough for me.

    If you are doing dragon raid, those spit out se pots from time to time.

    Idea to counter pot poisoning ?
    They should have made portable hot spring instead of portable repairing altar.
    Would be cool if it have "work better if equipment is removed" effect.

    Well, it doesn't get rid of it completely, but the Poisonous Mushroom Stew reduces your potion poisoning.
  • NegumikoNegumiko
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,150
    Posts: 1,013
    Member
    leveling the potion lore skill can help reduce poisoning. the effects after using respite also prevent you from using any skills unless you want to lose a lot of health which is why I avoid using it. at this point it is more effective to use inspiration for mp recovery, enduring melody for stamina, and nimbus heals for hp and stamina. so yes I fully support updating the potion system somehow and it would be great if we could plant more kinds of herbs in our homesteads. a few players say releasing more herbs make them to easy to get however we will still have to gather around 30 herbs per patch patch and make room for them in homesteads. by this point mostly event potions and full recovery potions are getting used and there is almost no reason to craft potions so it doesn't really matter if we get a few extra herbs in homesteads. my herb garden is fairly big and I only harvest them to complete my daily gathering quest most of the time.
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
    Posts: 765
    Member
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Ask your friend that spam festia everyday for four leaf clover, they usually have tens of them unless thrown away.

    Shield of thrust recovery and nimbus is usually good enough for me.

    If you are doing dragon raid, those spit out se pots from time to time.

    Idea to counter pot poisoning ?
    They should have made portable hot spring instead of portable repairing altar.
    Would be cool if it have "work better if equipment is removed" effect.

    Well, it doesn't get rid of it completely, but the Poisonous Mushroom Stew reduces your potion poisoning.

    Thank you i will stock some on my pet the next time im doing hard dungeon.
    Would be cool if i can share food and using firecamp before boss room XD
  • TNinjaTNinja
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,045
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    SE potions ruined everything
  • FalmostaFalmosta
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,260
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited July 24, 2017
    Negumiko wrote: »
    leveling the potion lore skill can help reduce poisoning. the effects after using respite also prevent you from using any skills unless you want to lose a lot of health which is why I avoid using it. at this point it is more effective to use inspiration for mp recovery, enduring melody for stamina, and nimbus heals for hp and stamina. so yes I fully support updating the potion system somehow and it would be great if we could plant more kinds of herbs in our homesteads. a few players say releasing more herbs make them to easy to get however we will still have to gather around 30 herbs per patch patch and make room for them in homesteads. by this point mostly event potions and full recovery potions are getting used and there is almost no reason to craft potions so it doesn't really matter if we get a few extra herbs in homesteads. my herb garden is fairly big and I only harvest them to complete my daily gathering quest most of the time.

    Even with rank one Potion Lore, the bonus's are not very effective and there are a LOT more monsters that can deal out a lot more damage then ever before that are now out side of raids. The fact that potion lore is a random effect of such a low percent just makes the bonus recovery point less.
    TNinja wrote: »
    SE potions ruined everything

    I'd have to agree on that because he lies the issue. SE potions tend to be a lot more potent and honestly Pot Poisoning isn't really necessary to balance end game bosses when they have a lot of moves that Automatically knock you out anyways. As Far as I know as well there isnt' a reforge that increase potion effectiveness.... though honestly this effect would be VERY RARE and Impractical
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Ask your friend that spam festia everyday for four leaf clover, they usually have tens of them unless thrown away.

    Shield of thrust recovery and nimbus is usually good enough for me.

    If you are doing dragon raid, those spit out se pots from time to time.

    Idea to counter pot poisoning ?
    They should have made portable hot spring instead of portable repairing altar.
    Would be cool if it have "work better if equipment is removed" effect.

    Well, it doesn't get rid of it completely, but the Poisonous Mushroom Stew reduces your potion poisoning.

    Poisonous Mushroom Stew Only Remove Toxicity Levels but not Stat nerfs in combat. So it's not that Viable of a solution to downing half a stack of Stam/hp/mp pots to get back to 1K hp when that is outside of trans.
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    With a big enough HP/MP/SP pool, it's eventually LESS Toxic to use Full Recovery Potions for general-purpose recovery.

    Wanna talk about something being out of date, talk about the terribad HP/SP recovery of the Respite skill.
    Hoo boy.

    I do agree that Four-Leaf Clovers are incredibly inaccessible, so much so that making your own 300pt potions for the purpose of recovery, is very unrealistic.
    Not to mention how toxic such potions are.
    Can enter potion poisoning after just 6 or 7 of them.

    The best are, of course, SE Potions.
    They can even get as big as 1000, with their recovery effects.
    But those aren't craftable!

    I wouldn't Mind It if Four leaf clovers were more common. I mean THIS IS A IRISH BASED GAME! So Why in the world are clovers so rare when they are not in the real world setting it is based on oi.....

    I End up spamming party heal instead of pots to heal myself a lot of times but Healing is not as effective a it used to be..... I know a easy way to fix that would make a Healing Magic mastery that increase all base healing effects and maybe.... reduces mp cost on party healing as it's ranked. Like I wouldn't Mind this at all I would be okay with that even if it took a long time to train!

    Earlier There was a comment about Respite And yes Repsite needs rebalanced as well.. However... I FIND REST TO BE COMPLETELY USELESS! Higher ranks of rest was suppose to help wounds at a campfire but one They are still both Capped and two the current ranks of this REALLY need re balanced as well. Like I am talking about some of the Older Skills in the game that Honestly shouldn't be capped any more. This include meditation, First Aid, Rest, And rebelance of potion making. And don't get me started on why mana shield is still capped for no good reason. >.>

    And for the record I have Rank 1 potion lore and it's not enough.
    Danievictria
  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,245
    Posts: 319
    Member
    Falmosta wrote: »
    Chain Blade is Luck and Dex.... Two skill stats that are unaffected by potion poison. This would effectively make it that Chain would break the reason why they had put potion Poisoning in the game. So I am Not sure What they intended to do to fix that if they even will.... since range doesn't have the issue of Potion poison to worry about when it comes to the bad side effects as well.

    Leave it the way it is. I don't really see why it'd need fixing. And, from looking at how the Chain skill set works, if you're getting hit enough to make you spam enough pots to cause pot poisoning, you probably aren't doing something right.
    TheNyanCat
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,685
    Posts: 313
    Member
    I get why Potion Poisoning is a thing: It's a mechanic to prevent players from just spamming potions to get through content that they're not yet truly strong enough to take on. I get it. But I agree that with the higher HP caps and stronger enemies in the current game, it makes sense that potion making gets some kind of update.
    Aerienna
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,365
    Posts: 7,852
    Member
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Ask your friend that spam festia everyday for four leaf clover, they usually have tens of them unless thrown away.

    Shield of thrust recovery and nimbus is usually good enough for me.

    If you are doing dragon raid, those spit out se pots from time to time.

    Idea to counter pot poisoning ?
    They should have made portable hot spring instead of portable repairing altar.
    Would be cool if it have "work better if equipment is removed" effect.

    Well, it doesn't get rid of it completely, but the Poisonous Mushroom Stew reduces your potion poisoning.

    Thank you i will stock some on my pet the next time im doing hard dungeon.
    Would be cool if i can share food and using firecamp before boss room XD

    The only troublesome thing about poisonous mushroom stew is the expensive alcohol you have to spend in Vales to make it.
    That said, when I make them to sell, I don't raise the price of the stew too high because that just turns people away. Good business though, mushrooms.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,365
    Posts: 7,852
    Member
    I get why Potion Poisoning is a thing: It's a mechanic to prevent players from just spamming potions to get through content that they're not yet truly strong enough to take on. I get it. But I agree that with the higher HP caps and stronger enemies in the current game, it makes sense that potion making gets some kind of update.

    But it's also why events give RE and SE potions that so many people toss.
  • ParadoxLostParadoxLost
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 108
    Member
    edited July 24, 2017
    Not sure if it was mentioned but you can synth clovers with a fairly decent rate of cloverly output

    Edit: Also i would recommend stocking up on full restore potions, no need to spam them and if you're having too then you're not playing right..plus relatively low toxicity rates considering their power
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
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    This is why we need a fishing event every other month...so people can replenish their supplies...no?

  • FalmostaFalmosta
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,260
    Posts: 64
    Member
    edited July 24, 2017
    Not sure if it was mentioned but you can synth clovers with a fairly decent rate of cloverly output

    Edit: Also i would recommend stocking up on full restore potions, no need to spam them and if you're having too then you're not playing right..plus relatively low toxicity rates considering their power
    Well my first issue with clovers is one... They don't stack at all two with Rank one synthesis and cloud the rate is only 74% for one. To make a Potion that.... Honestly will be use once and gone. But My main point is that 300's are the max but there were a lot higher pots that you can't make that would help. Like Wound pots only go to 30 that can be crafted, If you want Mix pots you need tons of holy water for just one. stack of them. I know pastime jobs are easy but time efficiency for restocking every time becomes a Much bigger chore then it should be. I don't mind using clovers but I just think there is a lot of missed potential that could have been added like magic crating shylien to make pots more potent. Or even a separate skill for elixir brewing that you can make the hp, stam, mp, def buff pots that are commonly found at end chest to extra stats effects that improve recover rate or alas.... being able to craft the Recovery Booster that no longer exists in the game as a Item the is given out. I just think that the average user hp stam and mp are a lot higher the the average when potion making was made and it needs to be re looked at because pot poison is a thing and and a dish that removes about 4 points of poison per dish isn't that viable to carry around in the main inv.
    Rhey wrote: »
    This is why we need a fishing event every other month...so people can replenish their supplies...no?

    As much as that is a thing it really invalidates training a skill that is very useful.
  • InfighterInfighter
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 38
    Member
    edited July 25, 2017
    Ever since I got it to r1, I've never had a reason to use that skill, except for those rare occasions that I need some production bonus chances.

    My idea of a skill revamp would be that Health/Mana/Stamina potions should get their restorative numbers x10. ex. 50s to 500, 100s to 1,000, 300s to 3,000. Why even increase it to 3,000? Because when someone (me as well as the rest of players who have broken the HP cap) gets hit by to deadly in a single hit, that means I have to heal my negative 1.8k hp so I can heal my actual 1.8k hp. Full recovers were ment to player who prefer not wasting time in making potions and gathering. But seems the thing just made the skill worthless. I don't mind the event potions, they deplete fast anyways in hm dungeons, alban hard-heroics, raids, etc.

    Why don't they change antidote potions to actually heal potion poisoning and of course having a cooldown to use the next potion. That way, it would make that potion useful. Do you remember using antidote potion before? nope, we never use that~ xD


    Besides the chain slasher talent, alchemists doesn't lose their main stats during a potion poison, as alchemy is HP/MP/STAM based. I think they benefits the most from a potion poison status as it recovers even more.
  • AgentJeanAgentJean
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,535
    Posts: 208
    Member

    The only troublesome thing about poisonous mushroom stew is the expensive alcohol you have to spend in Vales to make it.
    That said, when I make them to sell, I don't raise the price of the stew too high because that just turns people away. Good business though, mushrooms.


    2,200g is expensive? That's pocket change.
  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited July 25, 2017
    I tried those stews, didn't really work well when I was half potion poisoned....You'll have to make a lot to make it work.
    Anyway, it's true that potion making skill is outdated ever since the dungeon revamp, since a lot of dungeon monsters are way stronger now. It made potions outdated (I never had problems with potions prior to this update), but Mabi developers seem like that they never thought about that.
    With upcoming dan update, 300 RE potions will be craftable. However, it requires 1 four leaf clover, one of HP/MP/Stamina 300 potion, 1 water, 1 Mandrake. It's still going to be awful to create.
    I think they should add skill that removes potion poison status in holy art tab. That would be good holy art revamp.
  • AgentJeanAgentJean
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,535
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    edited July 25, 2017
    Finity wrote: »
    I tried those stews, didn't really work well when I was half potion poisoned....You'll have to make a lot to make it work.
    Anyway, it's true that potion making skill is outdated ever since the dungeon revamp, since a lot of dungeon monsters are way stronger now. It made potions outdated (I never had problems with potions prior to this update), but Mabi developers seem like that they never thought about that.
    With upcoming dan update, 300 RE potions will be craftable. However, it requires 1 four leaf clover, one of HP/MP/Stamina 300 potion, 1 water, 1 Mandrake. It's still going to be awful to create.
    I think they should add skill that removes potion poison status in holy art tab. That would be good holy art revamp.


    There is a skill: it's called Potion Lore.

    http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Study:_Potion_Lore

    R1 reduces poisoning by 40%
  • MaiaMaia
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,015
    Posts: 896
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    edited July 25, 2017
    That's disappointed that RE's are craftable but require equivalent potions already lol Let us grow clovers/mandrakes/etc. in our hs or bust.
  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited July 25, 2017
    AgentJean wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    I tried those stews, didn't really work well when I was half potion poisoned....You'll have to make a lot to make it work.
    Anyway, it's true that potion making skill is outdated ever since the dungeon revamp, since a lot of dungeon monsters are way stronger now. It made potions outdated (I never had problems with potions prior to this update), but Mabi developers seem like that they never thought about that.
    With upcoming dan update, 300 RE potions will be craftable. However, it requires 1 four leaf clover, one of HP/MP/Stamina 300 potion, 1 water, 1 Mandrake. It's still going to be awful to create.
    I think they should add skill that removes potion poison status in holy art tab. That would be good holy art revamp.


    There is a skill: it's called Potion Lore.

    http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Study:_Potion_Lore

    R1 reduces poisoning by 40%

    I have that skill rank 1 already lol. Even after that Rundal adv hm(If I'm not careful,solo) and Rabbie phantasm get me potion poisoned if I don't use RE/SE pots.