Check out the patch notes for the April 15 Update: https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/66413/patch-notes-april-15th-2021
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

New bot buisness...

RheyRhey
Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
Posts: 1,497
Member
edited August 14, 2017 in General Chat
-removed-

Are they revamping their gold acquisition methods 4 this new business model that circumvents Nexon's banhammer?

/discuss

  1. Be honest...Will U clean house?24 votes
    1. In a heart-beat.
       50% (12 votes)
    2. I don't want to give gold 2 bots so they can flip it on others.
       50% (12 votes)

Comments

  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,015
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    You should probably edit out their names in case they are not actually bots.

    -- or rather, what I mean to imply, is in case they are legitimate players.

    (if they are legit, this thread could be seen as harassment towards them)

    Some players (believe it or not) use key-smash names for their shop mules.

    It's dumb as hell to do ... but nonetheless true...
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    I think its best to report and suspicious behaviors you see to Nexon with screenshots as proof so an investigation can be done against the characters in question. If they are bots/scammers hopefully they will be banned promptly, but if they are legit players then Nexon should be able to find out if they are conducting business in a true and honest fashion.
  • KokoroKokoro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,155
    Posts: 289
    Member
    The reforge bots on Alexina have all started colluding and have brought the price of fine reforges back up to 500k after their initial price war reducing them down to 350k.

    They've found out that players are willing to buy reforges regardless of the price or how unscrupulous the shop looks...
    pawcalypse
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,015
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    Kokoro wrote: »
    The reforge bots on Alexina have all started colluding and have brought the price of fine reforges back up to 500k after their initial price war reducing them down to 350k.

    They've found out that players are willing to buy reforges regardless of the price or how unscrupulous the shop looks...
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    Redundant these aren't new comment. I've just stopped buying from them. I'd rather give my gold to someone's main than what could be either someone's alt character or a bot.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.

    The obvious counter claim to that is that they are on all of the servers and have been at it for at least half a year (probably more, I've lost track). My personal theory is that there's an army being funded by Steam Trading Cards to buy NX thru Steam and send gold somewhere, but that's not going to be proven or disproven publicly.
    pawcalypse
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,015
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Redundant these aren't new comment. I've just stopped buying from them. I'd rather give my gold to someone's main than what could be either someone's alt character or a bot.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.

    The obvious counter claim to that is that they are on all of the servers and have been at it for at least half a year (probably more, I've lost track). My personal theory is that there's an army being funded by Steam Trading Cards to buy NX thru Steam and send gold somewhere, but that's not going to be proven or disproven publicly.
    Perhaps, but none of this is proof enough for a player to determine. For example. I have a character named XTC. If I spend half my paycheck every week on gachapon and pack his shop with Artisans; does this make me a bot? What if I offset the prices a little; would I then become a bot? At what point would my character become a bot?
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
    Posts: 765
    Member
    Hmm is there other region kk that can get you 10k nx for cheap ?

  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,497
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Redundant these aren't new comment. I've just stopped buying from them. I'd rather give my gold to someone's main than what could be either someone's alt character or a bot.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.

    The obvious counter claim to that is that they are on all of the servers and have been at it for at least half a year (probably more, I've lost track). My personal theory is that there's an army being funded by Steam Trading Cards to buy NX thru Steam and send gold somewhere, but that's not going to be proven or disproven publicly.
    Perhaps, but none of this is proof enough for a player to determine. For example. I have a character named XTC. If I spend half my paycheck every week on gachapon and pack his shop with Artisans; does this make me a bot? What if I offset the prices a little; would I then become a bot? At what point would my character become a bot?

    U can also see them around advertising selling gold 4 cash etc. I just didn't bother including that since it'd be irrelevant and giving free ad 4 them on the forum instead of the topic at hand. Which is what is the new deal with bots handing money 2 nexon 4 artisan and enchant through cash shopping? Is it to circumvent bans?

    Anyways~ someone already clean their shop and a new ones already replaced these. Lel. :p

    Prolly got banned? Made bank then packed up and ran? Who knows... :*
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,015
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    Rhey wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Redundant these aren't new comment. I've just stopped buying from them. I'd rather give my gold to someone's main than what could be either someone's alt character or a bot.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.

    The obvious counter claim to that is that they are on all of the servers and have been at it for at least half a year (probably more, I've lost track). My personal theory is that there's an army being funded by Steam Trading Cards to buy NX thru Steam and send gold somewhere, but that's not going to be proven or disproven publicly.
    Perhaps, but none of this is proof enough for a player to determine. For example. I have a character named XTC. If I spend half my paycheck every week on gachapon and pack his shop with Artisans; does this make me a bot? What if I offset the prices a little; would I then become a bot? At what point would my character become a bot?

    U can also see them around advertising selling gold 4 cash etc. I just didn't bother including that since it'd be irrelevant and giving free ad 4 them on the forum instead of the topic at hand. Which is what is the new deal with bots handing money 2 nexon 4 artisan and enchant through cash shopping? Is it to circumvent bans?

    Anyways~ someone already clean their shop and a new ones already replaced these. Lel. :p

    Prolly got banned? Made bank then packed up and ran? Who knows... :*
    Anyone who knows me, knows I am against bots. ~ So, don't get me the wrong way. I just don't see it as clearly here as others, for a few simple reasons. One of which I already stated. What others are doing nearby doesn't mean the person running this shop is also involved. It's been a long time since I used XTC as a shop mule and I am now worried if I do.. I'll be misconstrued as a bot, because people would rather jump on a name than bother with any actual evidence to support their assumptions. ~ Guess what I use him for today .. :*

    YHI9CMF.jpg
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,497
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Rhey wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Redundant these aren't new comment. I've just stopped buying from them. I'd rather give my gold to someone's main than what could be either someone's alt character or a bot.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.

    The obvious counter claim to that is that they are on all of the servers and have been at it for at least half a year (probably more, I've lost track). My personal theory is that there's an army being funded by Steam Trading Cards to buy NX thru Steam and send gold somewhere, but that's not going to be proven or disproven publicly.
    Perhaps, but none of this is proof enough for a player to determine. For example. I have a character named XTC. If I spend half my paycheck every week on gachapon and pack his shop with Artisans; does this make me a bot? What if I offset the prices a little; would I then become a bot? At what point would my character become a bot?

    U can also see them around advertising selling gold 4 cash etc. I just didn't bother including that since it'd be irrelevant and giving free ad 4 them on the forum instead of the topic at hand. Which is what is the new deal with bots handing money 2 nexon 4 artisan and enchant through cash shopping? Is it to circumvent bans?

    Anyways~ someone already clean their shop and a new ones already replaced these. Lel. :p

    Prolly got banned? Made bank then packed up and ran? Who knows... :*
    Anyone who knows me, knows I am against bots. ~ So, don't get me the wrong way. I just don't see it as clearly here as others, for a few simple reasons. One of which I already stated. What others are doing nearby doesn't mean the person running this shop is also involved. It's been a long while since I used XTC as a shop mule and I am not worried if I do, I'll be misconstrued for a bot, because people would rather jump on a name than bother with any actual evidence to support their assumptions. ~ Guess what I use him for today .. :*

    YHI9CMF.jpg

    Points taken. No hard feelings here. But yea I wouldn't bother posting this thread if I didn't see them incriminate themselves already by advertising gold 4 cash. Looks like they were planning to flip the gold after someone cleaned house. Which is strange since Nexon kind of got "dirty" money(?) from bots. :D
    Hardmuscle
  • lidiyalidiya
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,325
    Posts: 335
    Member
    I once had a shop bot that's name was made from me slamming my head into the keyboard as I tried over 10 names, and all were taken, and was like OK IS THIS TAKEN? first time it was (believe it or not), 2nd said was ok so I said meh not playing on it anyways.

    I mainly use a shop alt to not be bothered by people on my main as I've been cursed out cause I wouldn't lower my price, and have had my alts spammed with idiotic messages.

    Basically if you think someone is a bot, or doing something illegal send the data to the GM's to look into. Posting screen shots for all to see of what might be a player is against the TOS of the forum, and will just start a witch hunt.
    Hardmuscle
  • KokoroKokoro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,155
    Posts: 289
    Member
    edited August 14, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Kokoro wrote: »
    The reforge bots on Alexina have all started colluding and have brought the price of fine reforges back up to 500k after their initial price war reducing them down to 350k.

    They've found out that players are willing to buy reforges regardless of the price or how unscrupulous the shop looks...
    I'm at a loss of understanding how you (or anyone else) can consider this to be botting. These could be legit players who spend truckloads on gachapon and have mule shops to sell their stuff. ~ Being lazy on a name is not proof enough to warrant this type of reaction from anybody.

    You are right. Basing it solely on a name is definitely not evidence that the shop is being run by a bot. You can totally be just using a mule alt to run your and that's fine.

    However also consider that many of these names used just sell one pile of reforges and are never seen from ever again. In their place is someone with a completely new name and selling the product for the same price. This could totally be the work of someone who uses multiple alts to sell their wares but what benefit do they get by making a whole pile of alts to sell stuff and discard after a day?

    In my view (which could totally be wrong) the GMs are cleaning them up because they have determined they have made an infringement but they are easily replaced.

    Or someone really is the legit owner of all these alts and this is what they wanted to do to make gold...
    Hardmuscle
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,385
    Posts: 7,852
    Member
    The problem other than being able to identifying the bot, it's other difficult to determine whether those goods are counterfeit or not, and then to confiscate everything.
    All these complex issues with no real solutions.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    The problem other than being able to identifying the bot, it's other difficult to determine whether those goods are counterfeit or not, and then to confiscate everything.
    All these complex issues with no real solutions.

    That's assuming that these items were made illegitimately, which I find extremely unlikely given how long these shops have been popping up.
    Hardmuscle
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,910
    Posts: 2,665
    Member
    edited August 15, 2017
    That is rather clever. Using an alt to sell all of your goods..
    I don't have another computer to use myself and plus I have items that can only be traded once.. x-x
    Is anybody interested in some Ancient Magic Powder (Mari)? 9dnGeIh.png
    PLS I HAVE MOUTHS TO FEED TOO
    Hardmusclepawcalypse
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,385
    Posts: 7,852
    Member
    Buffalos wrote: »
    The problem other than being able to identifying the bot, it's other difficult to determine whether those goods are counterfeit or not, and then to confiscate everything.
    All these complex issues with no real solutions.

    That's assuming that these items were made illegitimately, which I find extremely unlikely given how long these shops have been popping up.

    There's no way to tell regardless unless they have item generation tracking at Nexon.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,015
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 15, 2017
    Buffalos wrote: »
    The problem other than being able to identifying the bot, it's other difficult to determine whether those goods are counterfeit or not, and then to confiscate everything.
    All these complex issues with no real solutions.

    That's assuming that these items were made illegitimately, which I find extremely unlikely given how long these shops have been popping up.

    There's no way to tell regardless unless they have item generation tracking at Nexon.

    Items (just like characters and pets) have a unique id. This is a pretty standard procedure in game development, even today. That said, each individual stat on an item also has an id. When the stats on the item change (durability, upgrades, reforges, enchants, etc), the id related to said stat and item is either changed or has a suffix (to id the change) added to the original id (what is a string). ~ The only place this would be a problem is in the case of stackable items (such as gold and ducats). ~ Refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function
    Buffalos
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    That is rather clever. Using an alt to sell all of your goods..
    I don't have another computer to use myself and plus I have items that can only be traded once.. x-x

    It would be clever if Mabinogi didn't have a way for you to keep your shops up without you being glued to that shop the entire time it's open. The only real use to having a second shop would be if you don't have bag/license space for gold and even then you're sorta hurting credibility slightly.
    There's no way to tell regardless unless they have item generation tracking at Nexon.

    They've destroyed duplicated items generated via server crash exploits before, so I'm fairly certain they have some sort of means to track if items have been duplicated.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Items (just like characters and pets) have a unique id. This is a pretty standard procedure in game development, even today. That said, each individual stat on an item also has an id. When the stats on the item change (durability, upgrades, reforges, enchants, etc), the id related to said stat and item is either changed or has a suffix (to id the change) added to the original id (what is a string). ~ The only place this would be a problem is in the case of stackable items (such as gold and ducats). ~ Refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function

    This is probably close to what they do, but I would mention that I do recall duped gold being deleted in the past at some point. Or maybe that was some other game I played 7 years ago at the time, hard to recollect details that far back when records have been purged from forums.
    Hardmuscle
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,015
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 15, 2017
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Sherri wrote: »
    That is rather clever. Using an alt to sell all of your goods..
    I don't have another computer to use myself and plus I have items that can only be traded once.. x-x

    It would be clever if Mabinogi didn't have a way for you to keep your shops up without you being glued to that shop the entire time it's open. The only real use to having a second shop would be if you don't have bag/license space for gold and even then you're sorta hurting credibility slightly.
    There's no way to tell regardless unless they have item generation tracking at Nexon.

    They've destroyed duplicated items generated via server crash exploits before, so I'm fairly certain they have some sort of means to track if items have been duplicated.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Items (just like characters and pets) have a unique id. This is a pretty standard procedure in game development, even today. That said, each individual stat on an item also has an id. When the stats on the item change (durability, upgrades, reforges, enchants, etc), the id related to said stat and item is either changed or has a suffix (to id the change) added to the original id (what is a string). ~ The only place this would be a problem is in the case of stackable items (such as gold and ducats). ~ Refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function

    This is probably close to what they do, but I would mention that I do recall duped gold being deleted in the past at some point. Or maybe that was some other game I played 7 years ago at the time, hard to recollect details that far back when records have been purged from forums.

    It was the same game and they were able to track the gold a different way. ~ (far too many got far too rich far too fast). :)

    -- and they could give us 'offline shops' in Dunbarton (if they wanted to ..... completely destroy housing). :|
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    -- and they could give us 'offline shops' in Dunbarton (if they wanted to ..... completely destroy housing). :|

    They've already shot themselves in the foot with housing limits and how the system is managed by richer players. But hey that's an entirely different topic and my rants deserve their own thread for that one.
    HardmuscleArchdukeValeCortezSherripawcalypse