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A Mabi Legacy Servers?

RheyRhey
Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
Posts: 1,494
Member
in General Chat

Inspired By:
Back in the early 2000s, Final Fantasy XI was famous for completely disrespecting players’ time. Masochistic and convoluted, the MMO drew in thousands of dedicated players who traded hours upon hours of grinding for the sweet feeling of accomplishment. 15 years later, more player-friendly MMOs monopolize the genre. And yet, there are still hundreds of fans foregoing cleaner gaming experiences for FFXI’s endlessly time-consuming and punishing challenges on legacy servers.

In the early years following the release of Square Enix’s inaugural MMO in 2002, it might have taken two hours to cull the game’s player index for a well-rounded team, inquire after everyone’s availability, and wait at a designated spot for your comrades to arrive. Obtaining choice armor could mean tip-toeing through four levels of a dungeon, with no map, before waiting three hours for the right monster to spawn. Then, probably, either another person would kill it out from under you or the monster wouldn’t drop the armor. Getting to a hub city sometimes meant waiting for a virtual ferry to show up—in real time.

Over time, FFXI made some adjustments. The pace changed. What took days to accomplish in 2005 now takes an hour, max. But some players apparently long for the days of waiting and failure and, then, more waiting. One, called Nasomi, now runs a legacy server that crystallizes FFXI in 2005, with but a few small compromises. Bored by FFXI’s smoother leveling system and its successor Final Fantasy XIV’s relative ease-of-play, Nasomi looked around for MMOs that brought him the same painful ecstasy that FFXI did. For him, none sufficed.

In 2013, he launched the Nasomi FFXI Community Server, a free, time-frozen and legally-gray iteration of FFXI that at any time might host a few hundred die-hard players. It’s made possible by the sinister-sounding Dark Star FFXI server emulator, which has 20 active contributors, according to its lead developer.
FFXI

When I asked why Nasomi craved the brutality of FFXI, he cited one particular dungeon crawl. It was impossible to accomplish alone and FFXI didn’t have a great party-matching system in the early 2000s, so after hearing somebody loudly soliciting damage-dealers for that same dungeon-crawl in a city, he offered his services. The three-floor crawl lasted hours.

“There was no map at all,” he said. “The monsters on the upper levels were unfightable. If you tried, you died. It was dangerous, difficult and everyone had to work together or we had no chance.” Death-gripping his PlayStation 2 controller, Nasomi eventually accomplished the quest. The party had bonded over the challenges they faced. Nasomi received his first invitation to a Linkshell group that day, and for the next several years, he’d help his fellow players out with similarly daunting tasks.

“When you remove the need for players to need other players to accomplish things, players stop talking to each other,” Nasomi said.
FFXI

In 2005, FFXI players (myself included) would toss off casual insults toward WoW players whose game, many thought, was a total cakewalk until its endgame. After a 2012 expansion, legacy server fans told me, FFXI began moving in that direction. And FFXIV’s developers have admitted to taking cues from WoW so their game would attract more casual players.

Slowly, large-scale, mainstream MMOs that required socialization and coordination gave way to ones that offered a more drop-in, drop-out experience. No more punishingly long runs across dangerous zones with the introduction of easy-access teleporters. No more eight-hour EXP binges with five friendly randos who’d later become your best online friends.

Other FFXI legacy server regulars agreed that FFXI’s difficulty is what gelled its communities. Jason McMorris, who plays on another legacy server, said that the game “forced you into the community by requiring players to cooperate together.” Tabitha Cordell, who plays on yet another legacy server, explained that FFXI’s quests and leveling system were far more difficult or often impossible to solo, unlike other MMOs along the lines of WoW and FFXIV. “The people that still play it latch on to the group play and the old ‘grindy’ experience,” she said. Legacy servers like Nasomi’s offer that sort of community feel, but on a smaller scale.

Now that WoW publisher Blizzard is developing WoW Classic, a return to the game’s nostalgic early days, FFXI fans are wondering whether Square Enix will take a hint and make an official FFXI legacy server. Although Nasomi’s server and those of his peers don’t attract nearly as many fans as WoW’s legacy servers—only about 400 people were on Nasomi’s last Sunday—the people who frequent them have just as much love for the game they grew up on.

And yet, Tabatha said, whenever she describes the memory of her favorite game to friends, one thing remains constant: “I am frequently told by people, ‘I wish I had time for that.’”

Can we Dedicate one server 2 test the waters...? Officially...Nexon?

/Thoughts? Discuss~

P.s. It'd be great to see CO_OP/Dungeons be a thing again...
Imaizumi

Comments

  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Rhey wrote: »

    Inspired By:
    Back in the early 2000s, Final Fantasy XI was famous for completely disrespecting players’ time. Masochistic and convoluted, the MMO drew in thousands of dedicated players who traded hours upon hours of grinding for the sweet feeling of accomplishment. 15 years later, more player-friendly MMOs monopolize the genre. And yet, there are still hundreds of fans foregoing cleaner gaming experiences for FFXI’s endlessly time-consuming and punishing challenges on legacy servers.

    In the early years following the release of Square Enix’s inaugural MMO in 2002, it might have taken two hours to cull the game’s player index for a well-rounded team, inquire after everyone’s availability, and wait at a designated spot for your comrades to arrive. Obtaining choice armor could mean tip-toeing through four levels of a dungeon, with no map, before waiting three hours for the right monster to spawn. Then, probably, either another person would kill it out from under you or the monster wouldn’t drop the armor. Getting to a hub city sometimes meant waiting for a virtual ferry to show up—in real time.

    Over time, FFXI made some adjustments. The pace changed. What took days to accomplish in 2005 now takes an hour, max. But some players apparently long for the days of waiting and failure and, then, more waiting. One, called Nasomi, now runs a legacy server that crystallizes FFXI in 2005, with but a few small compromises. Bored by FFXI’s smoother leveling system and its successor Final Fantasy XIV’s relative ease-of-play, Nasomi looked around for MMOs that brought him the same painful ecstasy that FFXI did. For him, none sufficed.

    In 2013, he launched the Nasomi FFXI Community Server, a free, time-frozen and legally-gray iteration of FFXI that at any time might host a few hundred die-hard players. It’s made possible by the sinister-sounding Dark Star FFXI server emulator, which has 20 active contributors, according to its lead developer.
    FFXI

    When I asked why Nasomi craved the brutality of FFXI, he cited one particular dungeon crawl. It was impossible to accomplish alone and FFXI didn’t have a great party-matching system in the early 2000s, so after hearing somebody loudly soliciting damage-dealers for that same dungeon-crawl in a city, he offered his services. The three-floor crawl lasted hours.

    “There was no map at all,” he said. “The monsters on the upper levels were unfightable. If you tried, you died. It was dangerous, difficult and everyone had to work together or we had no chance.” Death-gripping his PlayStation 2 controller, Nasomi eventually accomplished the quest. The party had bonded over the challenges they faced. Nasomi received his first invitation to a Linkshell group that day, and for the next several years, he’d help his fellow players out with similarly daunting tasks.

    “When you remove the need for players to need other players to accomplish things, players stop talking to each other,” Nasomi said.
    FFXI

    In 2005, FFXI players (myself included) would toss off casual insults toward WoW players whose game, many thought, was a total cakewalk until its endgame. After a 2012 expansion, legacy server fans told me, FFXI began moving in that direction. And FFXIV’s developers have admitted to taking cues from WoW so their game would attract more casual players.

    Slowly, large-scale, mainstream MMOs that required socialization and coordination gave way to ones that offered a more drop-in, drop-out experience. No more punishingly long runs across dangerous zones with the introduction of easy-access teleporters. No more eight-hour EXP binges with five friendly randos who’d later become your best online friends.

    Other FFXI legacy server regulars agreed that FFXI’s difficulty is what gelled its communities. Jason McMorris, who plays on another legacy server, said that the game “forced you into the community by requiring players to cooperate together.” Tabitha Cordell, who plays on yet another legacy server, explained that FFXI’s quests and leveling system were far more difficult or often impossible to solo, unlike other MMOs along the lines of WoW and FFXIV. “The people that still play it latch on to the group play and the old ‘grindy’ experience,” she said. Legacy servers like Nasomi’s offer that sort of community feel, but on a smaller scale.

    Now that WoW publisher Blizzard is developing WoW Classic, a return to the game’s nostalgic early days, FFXI fans are wondering whether Square Enix will take a hint and make an official FFXI legacy server. Although Nasomi’s server and those of his peers don’t attract nearly as many fans as WoW’s legacy servers—only about 400 people were on Nasomi’s last Sunday—the people who frequent them have just as much love for the game they grew up on.

    And yet, Tabatha said, whenever she describes the memory of her favorite game to friends, one thing remains constant: “I am frequently told by people, ‘I wish I had time for that.’”

    Can we Dedicate one server 2 test the waters...? Officially...Nexon?

    /Thoughts? Discuss~

    P.s. It'd be great to see CO_OP/Dungeons be a thing again...

    IMO people are just nostalgic for the old days, there's a way to play old mabi (can't talk about it here, but I'm sure nearly everyone knows what I'm talking about) and let me tell you once the nostalgia wears off it feels terrible. What I think would be better is something like Diablo 3 seasonal.

    A server that lasts 1 month where everyone starts clean, there's highscores for a lot of different things as well. (First vhm girg, first phantasm/breaker, highest total stats etc) and according to the highscores you'd get a box in the main game that could have various drops/cosmetics.
    MaiaBronzebreakTheNyanCat
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Rhey wrote: »

    Inspired By:
    Back in the early 2000s, Final Fantasy XI was famous for completely disrespecting players’ time. Masochistic and convoluted, the MMO drew in thousands of dedicated players who traded hours upon hours of grinding for the sweet feeling of accomplishment. 15 years later, more player-friendly MMOs monopolize the genre. And yet, there are still hundreds of fans foregoing cleaner gaming experiences for FFXI’s endlessly time-consuming and punishing challenges on legacy servers.

    In the early years following the release of Square Enix’s inaugural MMO in 2002, it might have taken two hours to cull the game’s player index for a well-rounded team, inquire after everyone’s availability, and wait at a designated spot for your comrades to arrive. Obtaining choice armor could mean tip-toeing through four levels of a dungeon, with no map, before waiting three hours for the right monster to spawn. Then, probably, either another person would kill it out from under you or the monster wouldn’t drop the armor. Getting to a hub city sometimes meant waiting for a virtual ferry to show up—in real time.

    Over time, FFXI made some adjustments. The pace changed. What took days to accomplish in 2005 now takes an hour, max. But some players apparently long for the days of waiting and failure and, then, more waiting. One, called Nasomi, now runs a legacy server that crystallizes FFXI in 2005, with but a few small compromises. Bored by FFXI’s smoother leveling system and its successor Final Fantasy XIV’s relative ease-of-play, Nasomi looked around for MMOs that brought him the same painful ecstasy that FFXI did. For him, none sufficed.

    In 2013, he launched the Nasomi FFXI Community Server, a free, time-frozen and legally-gray iteration of FFXI that at any time might host a few hundred die-hard players. It’s made possible by the sinister-sounding Dark Star FFXI server emulator, which has 20 active contributors, according to its lead developer.
    FFXI

    When I asked why Nasomi craved the brutality of FFXI, he cited one particular dungeon crawl. It was impossible to accomplish alone and FFXI didn’t have a great party-matching system in the early 2000s, so after hearing somebody loudly soliciting damage-dealers for that same dungeon-crawl in a city, he offered his services. The three-floor crawl lasted hours.

    “There was no map at all,” he said. “The monsters on the upper levels were unfightable. If you tried, you died. It was dangerous, difficult and everyone had to work together or we had no chance.” Death-gripping his PlayStation 2 controller, Nasomi eventually accomplished the quest. The party had bonded over the challenges they faced. Nasomi received his first invitation to a Linkshell group that day, and for the next several years, he’d help his fellow players out with similarly daunting tasks.

    “When you remove the need for players to need other players to accomplish things, players stop talking to each other,” Nasomi said.
    FFXI

    In 2005, FFXI players (myself included) would toss off casual insults toward WoW players whose game, many thought, was a total cakewalk until its endgame. After a 2012 expansion, legacy server fans told me, FFXI began moving in that direction. And FFXIV’s developers have admitted to taking cues from WoW so their game would attract more casual players.

    Slowly, large-scale, mainstream MMOs that required socialization and coordination gave way to ones that offered a more drop-in, drop-out experience. No more punishingly long runs across dangerous zones with the introduction of easy-access teleporters. No more eight-hour EXP binges with five friendly randos who’d later become your best online friends.

    Other FFXI legacy server regulars agreed that FFXI’s difficulty is what gelled its communities. Jason McMorris, who plays on another legacy server, said that the game “forced you into the community by requiring players to cooperate together.” Tabitha Cordell, who plays on yet another legacy server, explained that FFXI’s quests and leveling system were far more difficult or often impossible to solo, unlike other MMOs along the lines of WoW and FFXIV. “The people that still play it latch on to the group play and the old ‘grindy’ experience,” she said. Legacy servers like Nasomi’s offer that sort of community feel, but on a smaller scale.

    Now that WoW publisher Blizzard is developing WoW Classic, a return to the game’s nostalgic early days, FFXI fans are wondering whether Square Enix will take a hint and make an official FFXI legacy server. Although Nasomi’s server and those of his peers don’t attract nearly as many fans as WoW’s legacy servers—only about 400 people were on Nasomi’s last Sunday—the people who frequent them have just as much love for the game they grew up on.

    And yet, Tabatha said, whenever she describes the memory of her favorite game to friends, one thing remains constant: “I am frequently told by people, ‘I wish I had time for that.’”

    Can we Dedicate one server 2 test the waters...? Officially...Nexon?

    /Thoughts? Discuss~

    P.s. It'd be great to see CO_OP/Dungeons be a thing again...

    IMO people are just nostalgic for the old days, there's a way to play old mabi (can't talk about it here, but I'm sure nearly everyone knows what I'm talking about) and let me tell you once the nostalgia wears off it feels terrible. What I think would be better is something like Diablo 3 seasonal.

    A server that lasts 1 month where everyone starts clean, there's highscores for a lot of different things as well. (First vhm girg, first phantasm/breaker, highest total stats etc) and according to the highscores you'd get a box in the main game that could have various drops/cosmetics.

    As someone from the very old days I can tell you that this is entirely true. While we might not like it, mabi has gotten tons of refinement over the years and to go back and play the older styles means we will lose access to some legitimately fun and engaging skill sets as they were designed with the new system in mind. Not to mention the over all speed of the game now is much faster than the old days.
  • AnimemabiAnimemabi
    Mabinogi Rep: 970
    Posts: 73
    Member
    They ruined this game by nerfing and making it easy for new players not to mention those skill training potions are a sad joke.Bring back the non nerfed generations get rid of all this hand holding bull and make these kids actually earn it.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,955
    Posts: 6,822
    Member
    edited September 10, 2018
    Animemabi wrote: »
    They ruined this game by nerfing and making it easy for new players not to mention those skill training potions are a sad joke.Bring back the non nerfed generations get rid of all this hand holding bull and make these kids actually earn it.

    Yes, Rabbie Phantasm is so easy, can solo it within 20 minutes on a 500 total level character.
    Jayy124Clovis15SherriTheNyanCat
  • ImaizumiImaizumi
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,925
    Posts: 672
    Member
    There's still difficult content but the fundamental issue for me has always been the removal of skill loading times and increasing our base stun resistance. Once those two factors were gone it became fundamentally difficult to balance the game in a way that isn't lopsided and rewarding to skill a lot of the time.
  • IAAWIAAW
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,285
    Posts: 131
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Yes, Rabbie Phantasm is so easy, can solo it within 20 minutes on a 500 total level character.

    To me, Rabbie Phantasm is extremely end-game. Like, "have the best gear with the best reforges and the highest step special upgrades while having every skill at Rank 1 with all talents at Grandmaster rank" end-game. It's not something that your average player is going to be attempting, let alone completing anytime soon. So I don't know if comparing the difficulty of Rabbie Phantasm (which is intended to be an extremely difficult end-game dungeon) to accusations of Mabinogi being too easy is that fair.

    As for Mabinogi being too easy nowadays... this is actually true, if you compare the combat styles of today to the combat styles of yesteryear. There are still plenty of instances where Mabinogi is challenging (especially G21), but in terms of general play Mabinogi is far more casual than it used to be. Hard to die to anything nowadays that isn't specifically designed to counteract the powercreep that players have had over the years, but it's hard to not encourage powercreep when you want players to remain invested without restricting them to solely Close Combat, Magic, and Archery.
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,585
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    edited September 10, 2018
    It's only hard to die if you're already maxed out on everything... why do people keep saying it's hard to die? D; I die easily, all the time... like seriously, I'm surprised I haven't ended up in a .hack//SIGN sorta/not really/similar/situation yet I die so much. It's not "too easy" for people who aren't already on the verge of/or at end-game.... and that's usually the point when people play a new game.


    EDIT: and I'm just saying this as I suck playing n' all. Only total level 2806 with 3 combat based grandmasters.... xD
  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,520
    Posts: 438
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    They ruined this game by nerfing and making it easy for new players not to mention those skill training potions are a sad joke.Bring back the non nerfed generations get rid of all this hand holding bull and make these kids actually earn it.

    Yes, Rabbie Phantasm is so easy, can solo it within 20 minutes on a 500 total level character.

    Psshh, I can solo it within 19 minutes on a level 499 character. Smh.
    SherriErorserv
  • IAAWIAAW
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,285
    Posts: 131
    Member
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    It's only hard to die if you're already maxed out on everything... why do people keep saying it's hard to die? D; I die easily, all the time... like seriously, I'm surprised I haven't ended up in a .hack//SIGN sorta/not really/similar/situation yet I die so much. It's not "too easy" for people who aren't already on the verge of/or at end-game.... and that's usually the point when people play a new game.

    I'm not nearly maxed out on everything and the only thing that really ever can kill me nowadays is GM missions and Saga Episode 5, which I'll be happy when I don't have to do that episode anymore once I can get my hands on a Demonic Gloomy Sunday. Those Hobgoblin Grenadiers are mean and pretty much usually ends in my death 50% of the time. There are probably other instances but unless I'm in a scenario where high amounts of damage are commonplace, I usually barely ever risk death. Although that may be just me being used to Giant gameplay, and when it comes to being a Giant, Vales Shield is your best friend.

    As for early game, sure, you'll probably die a few times before you get the hang of mechanics, but once you can build up some Strength and build up your innate Defense/Protection, you'll be able to tank the majority of what could come after you outside of poison. I imagine players who don't do this though are the ones who are most "at risk" in terms of death.

    That or again I'm just too used to being a tanky Giant to care that much about death except in specific scenarios. Shame I can't have Final Hit though.

    (mama katherz please give giants final hit)
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,585
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    edited September 10, 2018
    IAAW wrote: »
    That or again I'm just too used to being a tanky Giant to care that much about death except in specific scenarios. Shame I can't have Final Hit though.

    (mama katherz please give giants final hit)

    Yes... it must be a Giant thing. My husband plays a Giant too and dies much, much, much less then I do. And I don't go in swinging like a mad-man. I stay in corners and strategize. Lol.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,494
    Member
    IAAW wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Yes, Rabbie Phantasm is so easy, can solo it within 20 minutes on a 500 total level character.

    To me, Rabbie Phantasm is extremely end-game. Like, "have the best gear with the best reforges and the highest step special upgrades while having every skill at Rank 1 with all talents at Grandmaster rank" end-game. It's not something that your average player is going to be attempting, let alone completing anytime soon. So I don't know if comparing the difficulty of Rabbie Phantasm (which is intended to be an extremely difficult end-game dungeon) to accusations of Mabinogi being too easy is that fair.

    As for Mabinogi being too easy nowadays... this is actually true, if you compare the combat styles of today to the combat styles of yesteryear. There are still plenty of instances where Mabinogi is challenging (especially G21), but in terms of general play Mabinogi is far more casual than it used to be. Hard to die to anything nowadays that isn't specifically designed to counteract the powercreep that players have had over the years, but it's hard to not encourage powercreep when you want players to remain invested without restricting them to solely Close Combat, Magic, and Archery.

    Sadly...The reward vs Risk isn't worth it tho. Or else I'd just spam Rabbie Phantasm all day every Tuesday. :/
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    ITT: People saying the game is too easy while doing content that's supposed to be easy.

    JazmynIAAWJiantoClovis15TheNyanCat
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    ITT: People saying the game is too easy while doing content that's supposed to be easy.

    For me, it's this game is hard for content that's supposed to be easy.
    JazmynAeolysTheNyanCat
  • IAAWIAAW
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,285
    Posts: 131
    Member
    edited September 10, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    ITT: People saying the game is too easy while doing content that's supposed to be easy.

    A fair point, although in my case it's mostly because I don't feel strong enough to do raids or anything like that even though I probably am. Probably strong enough to complete all the generations but I've been sitting on G10 for the longest time; really should get around to getting it done but I'm stuck on the one quest where I need a partner in a situation where I have to resolve a broken relationship for Voight because I have to be a yes man, apparently. I just wanted an artifact restored.

    In other cases it's due to me running Rabbie Basic all the time because it's a good dungeon to profit off of on a regular basis due to all the fomor scrolls and ankle boots.

    (tfw you have R1 Nascent Divinity but don't have Demigod.)
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,845
    Posts: 790
    Member
    edited September 10, 2018
    Rhey wrote: »
    “When you remove the need for players to need other players to accomplish things, players stop talking to each other,” Nasomi said.

    Chills I got from that.
    KerowynBronzebreakSherri
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,515
    Posts: 180
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    I'll be upfront, I very much liked the game-play on the "Legacy" server we can't discuss here. What puts me off about that is that because of it's status it's forever in jepordy of behind shut down. Not to mention if you think official servers have a low player base then that's even smaller.


    It'll never happen, but if we had a "reboot" esque server for mabi, you betcha I'd play on it. Make it pre-genesis combat and skills but with all the UI, shop, and vanity improvements and I'd be sold. Currently I'm excited for Mabinogi Mobile (Not the silly one that's on the forums atm but the korean one later this quarter). If they manage to capture the spirit of the older times, the community, and the sense of accomplishment, I'll be a player.
    Imaizumi
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 49,415
    Posts: 7,591
    Member
    edited September 17, 2018
    deleted, leaving the forums
    JazmynKiruah
  • RaykaRayka
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 132
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    They ruined this game by nerfing and making it easy for new players not to mention those skill training potions are a sad joke.Bring back the non nerfed generations get rid of all this hand holding bull and make these kids actually earn it.

    They would never be able to catch up with us. It becomes disheartening to new players after a while.
    not really.... as long you pay money or golds for rebirth potions when there's rainbow or triple aps event it doesn't even take much, and how do you need to catch others? all you need is AP getting for skills APs nowadays is so easy to get....
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Rayka wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    Animemabi wrote: »
    They ruined this game by nerfing and making it easy for new players not to mention those skill training potions are a sad joke.Bring back the non nerfed generations get rid of all this hand holding bull and make these kids actually earn it.

    They would never be able to catch up with us. It becomes disheartening to new players after a while.
    not really.... as long you pay money or golds for rebirth potions when there's rainbow or triple aps event it doesn't even take much, and how do you need to catch others? all you need is AP getting for skills APs nowadays is so easy to get....
    You need total levels more than ap.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,494
    Member
    Gears without reforge would be a nice throwback 2 as well
    ImaizumiTheNyanCat