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So with the new Gachas...

Comments

  • FoxgirlkatieFoxgirlkatie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,055
    Posts: 156
    Member
    yup. i damn well knew it. advocate for some market regulation and i get called a communist. goes to show how uneducated you people are. i never said "Hurr durr take away duh player ability to pick prices entirely" nope. just said they need to place a limit on how high of a price a item can be set up. you can go higher but at risk of being scammed as you have to do more then 1 trade. which opens one of the party in scamming. Risk Vs reward people. clearly that went over your head. under this system its impossible to get scammed unwillingly. and it wont kill the game or market. the market will be there. but items will be reasonably priced. i see quite a bit of lies as well. how only thw wealthy win in such a system when the fact is everyone wins because things become more affordable instead of items costing 100+ Mil and possibly even more at max. when nothing in the game is even close to being worth that much.

    one of you says i deem it by how i want it? no i deem the price of things based on their actual value. based on a culmination of things. you know like a real economist would do and not "oh uhh its this limited and this rare? This price" no thats morons economics. i set a price on 1 factor "Item Type" then 1 factor "how many similar items like this" ect ect. and then total the price's together to one total price meant for the item. its far smarter then "Oh rare? so itl be pricey" i got into a argument with someone ingame about this a month or 2 and he lost the argument so bad because his reasoning broke down because hes just "i base price on rarity". my method id pricing is more logical. and nothing in the game comes anywhere close to even 50m. i also deem this based on how much gold you can make ingame from just hunting monsters and doing missions. and them alone isnt enough to justify the prices people like you support.

    the system i propose WILL help the game. because things become more affordable. and this will be more helpful to newer players as they can actually begin to afford things better. ya Gold duping occurred but thats no damn excuse to punish everyone because a select few ended up benefiting form it.

    and to address something so outrageously dumb its actually embarrassing that i have to point out the obvious. One of you I will not name who. said "if this happens people will use real world money to buy them" Ya. and you know what you do with them? You Ban them for breaking the rules. its really that simple. they wont try if they put everything at risk.

    you know its entertaining. clearly advocating for some regulation and no complete dismantling of the Capitalist or player driven market on the game and im instantly branded a Communist because yall either dont know the true definition of communist or you fell for the most pathetic lie perpetrated by the 1% Elites in the west that anything not "free Market Capitalism is Communist/socialist"

    but hey what do i know right? im just a dumb communist xD
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
    Posts: 6,919
    Member
    edited September 14, 2018
    yup. i damn well knew it. advocate for some market regulation and i get called a communist. goes to show how uneducated you people are. i never said "Hurr durr take away duh player ability to pick prices entirely" nope. just said they need to place a limit on how high of a price a item can be set up. you can go higher but at risk of being scammed as you have to do more then 1 trade. which opens one of the party in scamming. Risk Vs reward people. clearly that went over your head. under this system its impossible to get scammed unwillingly. and it wont kill the game or market. the market will be there. but items will be reasonably priced. i see quite a bit of lies as well. how only thw wealthy win in such a system when the fact is everyone wins because things become more affordable instead of items costing 100+ Mil and possibly even more at max. when nothing in the game is even close to being worth that much.

    one of you says i deem it by how i want it? no i deem the price of things based on their actual value. based on a culmination of things. you know like a real economist would do and not "oh uhh its this limited and this rare? This price" no thats morons economics. i set a price on 1 factor "Item Type" then 1 factor "how many similar items like this" ect ect. and then total the price's together to one total price meant for the item. its far smarter then "Oh rare? so itl be pricey" i got into a argument with someone ingame about this a month or 2 and he lost the argument so bad because his reasoning broke down because hes just "i base price on rarity". my method id pricing is more logical. and nothing in the game comes anywhere close to even 50m. i also deem this based on how much gold you can make ingame from just hunting monsters and doing missions. and them alone isnt enough to justify the prices people like you support.

    the system i propose WILL help the game. because things become more affordable. and this will be more helpful to newer players as they can actually begin to afford things better. ya Gold duping occurred but thats no damn excuse to punish everyone because a select few ended up benefiting form it.

    and to address something so outrageously dumb its actually embarrassing that i have to point out the obvious. One of you I will not name who. said "if this happens people will use real world money to buy them" Ya. and you know what you do with them? You Ban them for breaking the rules. its really that simple. they wont try if they put everything at risk.

    you know its entertaining. clearly advocating for some regulation and no complete dismantling of the Capitalist or player driven market on the game and im instantly branded a Communist because yall either dont know the true definition of communist or you fell for the most pathetic lie perpetrated by the 1% Elites in the west that anything not "free Market Capitalism is Communist/socialist"

    but hey what do i know right? im just a dumb communist xD

    Girl, you need to calm down and take a rest from this game.

    The prices depend on demand and rarity. It's simple as that. If a person is willing to buy that item for that price then so be it. You can't control such things, some prices even out and also might even drop if demand decreases.

    You can't even imagine how uneducated you look now because of this post. Talking like the all-knowing economist, but doesn't even know demand and supply theory.
    ForeRuniaBronzebreakLeineiTheNyanCat
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,335
    Posts: 522
    Member
    edited September 14, 2018
    Feefee wrote: »
    I think there is a wrong stigma with people buying low and selling high;; whether people agree with what they do or not, it feels like there is the idea that these people are greedy and making things the way it is only because of their self interest. But that's not the case, people who buy low and sell high actually do a really important favor for everyone: They preserve goods and keep them stocked for people who reaally want them O:

    The reason there's a stigma is a few years ago there was a group that was artificially inflating the price of angel wings on Alexina, and their reasons were supposedly to try to make Nexon stop putting out gachas. (Like this would ever happen.) I think it's the first time I've seen a "trust" form in an MMO.

    They would engage in tactics like holding fake trades in public to try to create the illusion of the price crashing, trying to get people to sell theirs. And of course, when people panicked and tried to sell, the group in question bought them all up. It got to the point where they wouldn't sell for less than 80m, casual owners were too scared to wear them (or sell or trade them) and this was for an item that dropped very generously from its initial gacha.

    You also get a lot of folks who try to cheat newbies out of their tens-of-millions worth gacha winnings for insultingly low prices.

    So when you see people pissed off about stance cards...well, now you know why. A lot of people remember the whole "angel wing" fiasco and see it as being sleazy to take a not-exactly-rare item and balloon the price.

    The only real answer to this is educating newbies when they come in unfortunately so that they understand supply and demand and know when the price is worth it, and when to back off and wait for the next gacha.

    Though as far as stance card prices, I see no reason for panic. For most of them the lower prices are holding. These aren't particularly rare and I see them as being the kind of item Nexon puts in gachas as a "medium" prize. They're not exactly jackpot material that only one or two people per server will get.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    yup. i damn well knew it. advocate for some market regulation and i get called a communist. goes to show how uneducated you people are. i never said "Hurr durr take away duh player ability to pick prices entirely" nope. just said they need to place a limit on how high of a price a item can be set up. you can go higher but at risk of being scammed as you have to do more then 1 trade. which opens one of the party in scamming. Risk Vs reward people. clearly that went over your head. under this system its impossible to get scammed unwillingly. and it wont kill the game or market. the market will be there. but items will be reasonably priced. i see quite a bit of lies as well. how only thw wealthy win in such a system when the fact is everyone wins because things become more affordable instead of items costing 100+ Mil and possibly even more at max. when nothing in the game is even close to being worth that much.

    one of you says i deem it by how i want it? no i deem the price of things based on their actual value. based on a culmination of things. you know like a real economist would do and not "oh uhh its this limited and this rare? This price" no thats morons economics. i set a price on 1 factor "Item Type" then 1 factor "how many similar items like this" ect ect. and then total the price's together to one total price meant for the item. its far smarter then "Oh rare? so itl be pricey" i got into a argument with someone ingame about this a month or 2 and he lost the argument so bad because his reasoning broke down because hes just "i base price on rarity". my method id pricing is more logical. and nothing in the game comes anywhere close to even 50m. i also deem this based on how much gold you can make ingame from just hunting monsters and doing missions. and them alone isnt enough to justify the prices people like you support.

    the system i propose WILL help the game. because things become more affordable. and this will be more helpful to newer players as they can actually begin to afford things better. ya Gold duping occurred but thats no damn excuse to punish everyone because a select few ended up benefiting form it.

    and to address something so outrageously dumb its actually embarrassing that i have to point out the obvious. One of you I will not name who. said "if this happens people will use real world money to buy them" Ya. and you know what you do with them? You Ban them for breaking the rules. its really that simple. they wont try if they put everything at risk.

    you know its entertaining. clearly advocating for some regulation and no complete dismantling of the Capitalist or player driven market on the game and im instantly branded a Communist because yall either dont know the true definition of communist or you fell for the most pathetic lie perpetrated by the 1% Elites in the west that anything not "free Market Capitalism is Communist/socialist"

    but hey what do i know right? im just a dumb communist xD

    So there's no point to continue this any more because you very clearly don't understand how a market works. You know why diamonds, a literal shiny rock that's only useful purpose is tool bits used to cut the same worthless rock have value? Because people think they do. You support scamming, is the tldr of what you said.

    As for what I bolded, yes that's how a perfect world would work but the fact that people openly sell items for paypal money IN GAME PARTIES shows that there isn't really a risk to it at all. If you're upset someone else is offering more gold for an item it's worth more to that person than you. You can't be mad at someone willing to pay more for something just because YOU think it's not worth that much.

    I bought 17 conqueror tailoring kits for ~1.5m each, all off the auction house. AKA I didn't interact with another player at all, they knew the average they saw the last sold and decided they wanted quick gold and set it lower. Now that they're not as common people, even though they see that "Previous sold" is 2m, are buying them for 4-5m each. The other people that may have wanted that same enchant for the price I payed had many opportunities to do so, but because they waited they'll end up paying more.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,460
    Posts: 8,198
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    edited September 17, 2018
    deleted, leaving the forums.
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,765
    Posts: 1,751
    Member
    edited September 14, 2018
    foxgirlkatie makes that huge post and not once does she mention supply and demand... that's literally the MAIN thing that drives prices.

    rare? who cares if it's an ugly piece of dirt that 2 people might want.

    rare and demanded by 50%+ of the population? = EXPENSIVE
    TheNyanCat
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,845
    Posts: 790
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  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,460
    Posts: 8,198
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    edited September 17, 2018
    deleted, leaving the forums.
    Jazmyn
  • ForeRuniaForeRunia
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 39
    Member

    Something academic to pair with this:

    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/260169

    The part you're looking for is A. Short-Run Equilibrium though the prior sections are still good information building up to that section.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    edited September 14, 2018
    Gaea wrote: »
    Seriously that long post made my head hurt, and it's not because I am a "moron". XD
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    As for what I bolded, yes that's how a perfect world would work but the fact that people openly sell items for paypal money IN GAME PARTIES shows that there isn't really a risk to it at all. If you're upset someone else is offering more gold for an item it's worth more to that person than you. You can't be mad at someone willing to pay more for something just because YOU think it's not worth that much.

    I report those people. There was someone selling their account...and you know what? I'm just going to say this out in the open; I reported them. There I said it, I am a nark. I know there are going to be some people who will lynch me, but I don't care anymore. We all have to follow the rules. This protects the game and players.

    I used to be a banker. I warned the general game population so people wouldn't shell out money for an account that would become banned. If it wasn't me that was going to report it, someone else would of, and they probably did. We report them when sited.

    If you feel like you need to quit playing the game, just take the memories with you, say good bye and quit. You can even request to have your account to be cancelled by submitting a ticket.

    So don't risk it. Do not sell things for irl currency. Play the game, get better, earn more gold.

    That's what you should be doing. Anyone dumb enough to openly advertise like that deserves the punishments for breaking the rules.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,460
    Posts: 8,198
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    edited September 17, 2018
    deleted, leaving the forums.
    Jazmyn
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    As for what I bolded, yes that's how a perfect world would work but the fact that people openly sell items for paypal money IN GAME PARTIES shows that there isn't really a risk to it at all. If you're upset someone else is offering more gold for an item it's worth more to that person than you. You can't be mad at someone willing to pay more for something just because YOU think it's not worth that much.
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    Seriously that long post made my head hurt, and it's not because I am a "moron". XD
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    As for what I bolded, yes that's how a perfect world would work but the fact that people openly sell items for paypal money IN GAME PARTIES shows that there isn't really a risk to it at all. If you're upset someone else is offering more gold for an item it's worth more to that person than you. You can't be mad at someone willing to pay more for something just because YOU think it's not worth that much.

    I report those people. There was someone selling their account...and you know what? I'm just going to say this out in the open; I reported them. There I said it, I am a nark. I know there are going to be some people who will lynch me, but I don't care anymore. We all have to follow the rules. This protects the game and players.

    I used to be a banker. I warned the general game population so people wouldn't shell out money for an account that would become banned. If it wasn't me that was going to report it, someone else would of, and they probably did. We report them when sited.

    If you feel like you need to quit playing the game, just take the memories with you, say good bye and quit. You can even request to have your account to be cancelled by submitting a ticket.

    So don't risk it. Do not sell things for irl currency. Play the game, get better, earn more gold.

    That's what you should be doing. Anyone dumb enough to openly advertise like that deserves the punishments for breaking the rules.

    This was a recent report too. I had to leave Mabinogi Alliance and block someone on discord because they kept drilling me for more information. I just didn't want someone to end up with a banned account they purchased. I mean yeah, both parties are stupid, the seller and the buyer. I was protecting the buyer at that point because supposedly there was an offer. If that buyer found out the account was banned they would end up going through a claims process with their bank and the bank would end up losing money.

    Stuff like that increases the cost of things for everyone in the long run. So yeah I will report stuff like that in a heartbeat. Everyone should should be proactive about stuff like this. It's just one of the numerous things that hurt this economy.

    I left that one after the admin (owner?) spam pinged @everyone several times for april fools. After the initial spam wave a bunch of people were like "okay you've had your fun but it's actually kind of annoying please stop" they pinged it more after that, which got a "Seriously, just stop it's not funny" and they again, spam pinged everyone. After someone mentioned that it's causing people to leave the same admin or owner said something along the lines of "I don't really care if those types of people leave"

    You know a prank is supposed to make everyone laugh, not just be as annoying as you can to a large group of people. That and the arrogance kinda just... * me off.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,460
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    edited September 17, 2018
    deleted, leaving the forums.
  • FoxgirlkatieFoxgirlkatie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,055
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    So i havnt been in this thread for some time because some of you frankly just piss me off with how uneducated youa re yet you think your intelligent on the subject. Spoiler ALERT. You're not.

    its funny how you all bring up supply and demand. but conveniently leave out the actual Supply part of it. It doesnt exist in a game like this. All these items your selling are in infinite supply as they can just be generated. which means theres a infinite supply. Supply and demand only works when resources are Finite. like in the Real world. that Diamond analogy falls flat on its face when you realise that diamonds in the real world are in finite amounts and as a result have to be priced accordingly because you dont have a unlimited amount of them compared to a game. you guys love to preach about Supply and demand but dont understand it doesnt work when the resources are infinite.

    but also many of you call me uneducated because im not basing off S&D well guess what because its smarter to price based on a items factors then if its rare or not. this is why i call you uneducated. a Divine weapon for example is not worth 100+M. when its components dont even come anywhere close to that value together.

    as for you hellkaizer. you say im in support of a scam system but all the facts point to the opposite. how can you get scammed when your paying for the items worth? explain that. and those who currently use paypal to buy items need to be banned. Rule breakers shouldn't be given free pass's and they wouldnt under this system.

    anyone who actually wants to use the Supply and demand argument as a rebuttal is getting insta ignored since you clearly dont know what you are talking about. Supply and Demand is a myth in a world where everything is unlimited amounts.

    im trying to make the game better and more friendly instead of people getting price gouged because abunch of people are to greedy and dont understand game economics.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,605
    Posts: 478
    Member
    edited October 1, 2018
    its funny how you all bring up supply and demand. but conveniently leave out the actual Supply part of it. It doesnt exist in a game like this. All these items your selling are in infinite supply as they can just be generated. which means theres a infinite supply.
    New Age Economist cracks digital-item-values across all games. All items now worth 1g.
    like in the Real world. that Diamond analogy falls flat on its face when you realise that diamonds in the real world are in finite amounts and as a result have to be priced accordingly because you dont have a unlimited amount of them compared to a game. you guys love to preach about Supply and demand but dont understand it doesnt work when the resources are infinite.

    but also many of you call me uneducated because im not basing off S&D well guess what because its smarter to price based on a items factors then if its rare or not. this is why i call you uneducated.

    anyone who actually wants to use the Supply and demand argument as a rebuttal is getting insta ignored since you clearly dont know what you are talking about. Supply and Demand is a myth in a world where everything is unlimited amounts.

    Air now costs $1x10^84 now that humans realize oxygen is limited in the universe.

    /thread
    ForeRuniaHellkaizer
  • ForeRuniaForeRunia
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 39
    Member
    All these items your selling are in infinite supply as they can just be generated.
    That doesn't mean an infinite amoung of them exist though. Just because it can doesn't mean it does. You'll notice items that are that infinite aren't worth much, like the NPC shop items. Doesn't disregard the fact that some items sell for more than they should. If every item is in equal quanitity in the game then the only way to raise the value is by artificial means. If you're infinitely creating the items, you're also infinitely creating the resources. You can defrag plenty of items to receive materials from.
    a Divine weapon for example is not worth 100+M. when its components dont even come anywhere close to that value together.
    If items created had less RNG to their stats a lot of equipment would probably be less than it is. Because of the RNG though, every divine weapon isn't of equal usefulness or strength and it's hard to replicate the ones with higher rolls. I'm a little curious though. If it's that important to save money why don't you make stuff yourself? You can't get any cheaper than that.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    So i havnt been in this thread for some time because some of you frankly just piss me off with how uneducated youa re yet you think your intelligent on the subject. Spoiler ALERT. You're not.

    its funny how you all bring up supply and demand. but conveniently leave out the actual Supply part of it. It doesnt exist in a game like this. All these items your selling are in infinite supply as they can just be generated. which means theres a infinite supply. Supply and demand only works when resources are Finite. like in the Real world. that Diamond analogy falls flat on its face when you realise that diamonds in the real world are in finite amounts and as a result have to be priced accordingly because you dont have a unlimited amount of them compared to a game. you guys love to preach about Supply and demand but dont understand it doesnt work when the resources are infinite.

    but also many of you call me uneducated because im not basing off S&D well guess what because its smarter to price based on a items factors then if its rare or not. this is why i call you uneducated. a Divine weapon for example is not worth 100+M. when its components dont even come anywhere close to that value together.

    as for you hellkaizer. you say im in support of a scam system but all the facts point to the opposite. how can you get scammed when your paying for the items worth? explain that. and those who currently use paypal to buy items need to be banned. Rule breakers shouldn't be given free pass's and they wouldnt under this system.

    anyone who actually wants to use the Supply and demand argument as a rebuttal is getting insta ignored since you clearly dont know what you are talking about. Supply and Demand is a myth in a world where everything is unlimited amounts.

    im trying to make the game better and more friendly instead of people getting price gouged because abunch of people are to greedy and dont understand game economics.
    Oh man, here we go again.

    I'm going to ignore your pointless insults (Which btw shows that you have nothing to contribute in a debate setting, as you've decided to take it personally)

    that aside, let's break this down.
    its funny how you all bring up supply and demand. but conveniently leave out the actual Supply part of it. It doesnt exist in a game like this. All these items your selling are in infinite supply as they can just be generated. which means theres a infinite supply. Supply and demand only works when resources are Finite. like in the Real world. that Diamond analogy falls flat on its face when you realise that diamonds in the real world are in finite amounts and as a result have to be priced accordingly because you dont have a unlimited amount of them compared to a game. you guys love to preach about Supply and demand but dont understand it doesnt work when the resources are infinite.

    There's enough molten gold in the core of the earth that you could cover the ENTIRE globe in about 12' of gold. Literally everyone who owns a house could have a swimming pool sized block of gold in their yard and there would still be too much to actually use. While yes it is finite, there's so damn much of it it just wouldn't be possible to use that much. My point? Sure there's technically an infinite supply of golden crystals but it takes work to get those, hence they have a value. A supply (the people farming to get them) and the demand ( The people making divine weapons). It wouldn't be easy to extract gold from the molten core, so even though there's basically an infinite supply in terms of humanity's concerns, it still has value.

    but also many of you call me uneducated because im not basing off S&D well guess what because its smarter to price based on a items factors then if its rare or not. this is why i call you uneducated. a Divine weapon for example is not worth 100+M. when its components dont even come anywhere close to that value together.

    If you know a more applicable system, please mention the name of it and how it works. Main reasoning is it's silly to use a theory not proven academically when the market in-game reflects how real world markets behave. While rarity has little to do with price, look at the price of alexandrite compared to diamond. alexandrite is significantly more rare than diamond, actually if you look at how gems are formed diamond is likely the most common gem found in nature. A divine weapon is the best you can get (in most cases anyway), nothing to do with rarity but usefulness, and damage output. You're just factually wrong with the price as well. Gold crystals have basically held a 4.5m price tag on Alexina and you need 40 of them. That's 180m not counting anything else. I'm not going to count smaller servers either because right now in alexina provided I had the gold I could buy everything I needed to make one, I doubt you could do this at any time on tarlach. Another factor is the roll on damage it gets. I'll go roll a random number right now between 22-43 because that's the roll the blade gets when crafting it.
    a3987bbffd9c82176d7b0749b5a2234e.png
    this divine blade is junk, I think it's actually worse than a farron greatsword. A divine blade like this might sell for 3/5ths the material cost if you actually found someone willing to buy it.
    as for you hellkaizer. you say im in support of a scam system but all the facts point to the opposite. how can you get scammed when your paying for the items worth? explain that. and those who currently use paypal to buy items need to be banned. Rule breakers shouldn't be given free pass's and they wouldnt under this system.

    How about instead of me trying to explain that, you explain this.
    im selling a pair of wings you want. i want 15M for em. but the game wont allow our trade for that item to exceed 10M because 10M is the preset max for that item by the devlopers. so i eaither agree to it or not. or the risk part comes in. we can agree to you giving me 10M i give you the item. then we can open the trade again after the previous trade for a "gift" option of the trade. where i dont need to offer something in return but you give me a check for 5M. that being the other part of the trade. however the risk being as it requires a separate trade. even if we "agreed" you can "scam" but i cant actually legitimately call you a scammer because its my fault for trying to circumvent the system. which brings with it risks.

    If items could be equally attained by everyone all the time, then no one would barter against other players to guarantee getting the item and the situation of trying to bypass the item's in-game gold limit would never apply. What determines the item's worth though? Is it just the materials? If so, please explain how this would work.
    I'm selling a Bhafel Hunter and Huntress. If I'm buying supplies and not manually farming them, it costs about 100M to make it. BD heart is around 55M and the BD eye is around 35M, which is why I say around 100M to account for other materials. As a result, the max for that item is 100M, set by the developers, so I have to agree to it or I'll be punished. But my rolls are terrible and a Salvation Bow is better than it now. Salvation Bow costs about 200k to make. Do I sell the Bhafel Hunter and Huntress at 100M because of it's material value, or do I lower it because of it's stats? If lowered because of it's stats, does one with max roll have a value above material cost because of it's stats? Or does only the max roll meet the 100M material cost and everything else is lower? Do we place a value on the stats, then what happens when there's not enough Bhafel Hunter and Huntress bows to meet the amount of people trying to buy one?

    And one more question
    What's the point of being a blacksmith and selling goods for people if you never make a profit for your work? There's literally no point for it. Do I sell my blacksmithing services to players then, and have them bring materials to me or purchase materials from me? This is effectively the same thing as selling an item above the material cost, just the blacksmith has a chance to get scammed for doing something they enjoy now. Or, the smith would even craft one themselves and if its a low roll wait until someone asks for their services and craft a new one, and keep the better one. Again, a potential to scam.
    anyone who actually wants to use the Supply and demand argument as a rebuttal is getting insta ignored since you clearly dont know what you are talking about. Supply and Demand is a myth in a world where everything is unlimited amounts.

    But people still need to work to get the materials, they still grind to get better gear. There's no button on screen that just says "Click here for divine blade". This is the definition of supply and demand.
    Demand refers to how much (quantity) of a product or service is desired by buyers. The quantity demanded is the amount of a product people are willing to buy at a certain price; the relationship between price and quantity demanded is known as the demand relationship. Supply represents how much the market can offer.
    in this case, the market can only offer as much as people are willing to farm the content that drops these items.

    im trying to make the game better and more friendly instead of people getting price gouged because abunch of people are to greedy and dont understand game economics.
    You might think of it like that, but what you'd do is make it less beginner friendly. Know why? Because if a gold crystal was only worth 1m set max, and there was no way to circumvent that without "not scamming" everyone would just keep them. Once you personally farm 40 of them to make a weapon you'd make the weapon and trade it for another divine weapon. Say I got broken short lance drop, I'm an elf I can't use that, but Bob12 got a broken crossbow what'll happen is me and Bob12 will both farm 40 crystals then swap lance for crossbow. What's a new player going to do? Offer gold that no one wants? Offer a worse weapon? No their only option is to farm it themselves as well. Right now a new player could get lucky and get a skill book drop from barry adv that sells for 5-8m, that's like 1.4 gold crystals right there they're working towards a divine weapon already. Or the alternative, they get that skill book drop and they won't sell it for worthless gold but might trade it for another skill book or something. A new player can't do avalon raids, they can't do aahm for ruptured metals to make celtics, they can't do squire missions because their squires aren't high enough level. They'd be forced to catch up slower than ever, by which point the people at end game will be even further into it and our new player will never catch up.
    TheNyanCatSherriImaizumiCoolAidBronzebreakVeylaineGreta
  • WonderWeaselWonderWeasel
    Mabinogi Rep: 715
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    edited October 4, 2018
    In the case of gacha items, you can only obtain them while the gachapon itself is on sale. That is the definition of finite. Your arguement is terrible, I'm sorry. Can you say Dunning-Kruger effect?
    SherriGreta
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,840
    Posts: 2,653
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    In the case of gacha items, you can only obtain them while the gachapon itself is on sale. That is the definition of finite. Your arguement is terrible, I'm sorry.

    True, true. Even more so towards the outfits or other one time exclusive items offered in each gachapon.
  • ImaizumiImaizumi
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,055
    Posts: 679
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    edited October 5, 2018
    Edit: nothing to see here