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New Talent: Siege

ledlebrgrledlebrgr
Mabinogi Rep: 620
Posts: 11
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
The Siege Talent would be rather interesting, in my opinion. It would focus around battling with a catapult and a battering ram. The catapult would be used to attack from range, and upon hitting the target (for this thread, we'll assume the target is a fox), the fox would be stunned for 1 second for Ranks F-A, 2 seconds for Ranks 9-6, 3 seconds for Ranks 5-2, and 4 seconds for Rank 1. An attack with Novice level Catapult Mastery would not inflict stun. The battering ram will possess Pierce, being level 1 for F-A, 2 for 9-6, 3 for 5-2, and 4 for Rank 1, with Novice level Ram Mastery having 0 Pierce. The catapult would do 10-20 damage on impact, increasing with Rank by 1 Minimum Damage and 2 Maximum Damage at Rank F, then +1 to both for every sequential Rank. The battering ram would do 5-10 damage per hit, due to it having Pierce. Damage would increase by 1-3 for Rank F, then go up by 1-1 with sequential Ranks, similar to Catapult Mastery. The damage of the Catapult and Battering Ram would be offset by slow attack speed via a cooldown, which would start at a 5 second cooldown at Novice level, then decrease at Ranks F, 9, 5, and 1 by 1, 2, 3, and 4 seconds total, respectively. While using the Catapult, counter will not be possible, however, it will be possible with the Battering Ram. Similar to the Marionettes of Puppetry, the Catapult and Battering Ram would have health of their own. Where the difference lies is in how they are repaired. Using the Carpentry Talent to obtain Firewood, you can then use Handicraft to repair your catapult and ram. For Rank Novice-A, they are repaired with regular Firewood. Ranks 9-6 repair with Average Firewood, Ranks 5-2 with Fine Firewood, and Rank 1 with Finest Firewood. The catapults and rams themselves would be purchased by a weapons merchant. The Celtic Siege weapons recipe would be learned through a quest to obtain the recipe, after which, you can craft them via Handicraft at Rank 3+. I figured that, due to the Carpentry Talent being needed alongside the Siege Talent, that Tracy would give you your Beginner Catapult and Beginner Ram, at the start of a questline, of course, which would be needed to get the other skills for Siege. If your catapult and ram have both broken, you will still be able to fight, though not as efficiently. You would be restricted to melee combat, as you would wield the striking log from the battering ram, and here, Close Combat would be effective. The striking log would count as a Blunt Two Handed Weapon, and giants cannot wield it along with a shield. As for how to equip the catapult and ram, you would equip an item called the 'Siege Engine Kit', which would contain both the catapult and ram. When hovering over the Kit, it would display independent bars, showing the health of the catapult and the ram. The striking log itself would be contained in the Special/Personal Inventory, and only appear when the ram is broken. The striking log can be equipped alongside the Siege Engine Kit, as, only when you wield the striking log, the Siege Engine Kit can go in the left hand. The catapult and ram would require set-up time beforehand, similar to the Tower Cylinder. You can choose which engine to use, similar to how you choose between Puppetry's Pierrot and Colossus. The movement speed of the engines would match the player's speed, and scale with speed buffs to match the player. Similar to Archery, the catapult would have an aim meter, but unlike Archery, where only Humans and Elves can use bows, all races can use Siege engines, but Elves cannot move while aiming, Humans can only walk, while Giants can run, due to both their size and their inherent strength. If you have any suggestions for this Talent idea, want to express how much you enjoy the thought of this becoming a Talent, or want to insult and berate me for coming up with such a stupid idea, go right ahead. Also, I apologize if this post is a bit all over the place, this is the first post I've made here, and as for real life reasons, my mom dropped her phone, so I'm putting more focus on that, but I still wanted to get this idea out there. In any case, I hope you guys can forgive me for this wall of text, and I hope you have a great time playing Mabinogi!

Comments

  • DraechDraech
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,375
    Posts: 355
    Member
    I'm feeling kinda mixed on this one. On one hand, portable siege engines feels unusual, uninteresting and immersion-breaking. On the other, the talent is really well-designed, and another tactical talent is something this game needs.

    First, what I dislike: siege weapons, as a talent, doesn't feel... right. Considering the lore of the Generations, you're meant to be a heroic adventurer with immense strength, not just someone cowering behind a catapult. Moreover, inside a dungeon, it feels very immersion-breaking. I'd rather see it similar to Lord of the Rings Online's approach to siege weapons, where they're for instanced wars. They could be integrated to Guild battles or the arenas, but not as a talent, merely as an option or a role.

    As for what I like: the concept of a talent similar to puppetry, yet more of a "trap-setter" approach. What I'd rather see is if the Siege Kits were not weapons, but rather items that you can set up (and possibly retrieve). Or it could be new skills for Construct Alchemist, to combine with Barrier Spikes. This way, you can use these to plan ahead, and still be able to use the skillset you wanted (say, battle alchemy or archery; both need a bit of time and space).
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,385
    Posts: 7,852
    Member
    I think there was a discussion on this on old forums way back.
    Although having a concept of sieges would be cool, I don't think the game is capable of enacting the effects of a siege assault.

    Remember siege weapons are used for the purpose of breaking defensive structures and wreaking havoc on buildings.
    I just don't see it happening unless they made minor battlements that we have to get by.

    And maybe if we start seeing naval combat, the use of range siege weapons can be used, but not at this point.

    It would also be a boost to crafting if players had to build siege engines for combat.

    But, the game just doesn't accommodate for mass pitched battles and sieges.

    Even games that do, have had a rough time developing the gameplay around sieges.
    Faybal
  • ledlebrgrledlebrgr
    Mabinogi Rep: 620
    Posts: 11
    Member
    Draech wrote: »
    I'm feeling kinda mixed on this one. On one hand, portable siege engines feels unusual, uninteresting and immersion-breaking. On the other, the talent is really well-designed, and another tactical talent is something this game needs.

    First, what I dislike: siege weapons, as a talent, doesn't feel... right. Considering the lore of the Generations, you're meant to be a heroic adventurer with immense strength, not just someone cowering behind a catapult. Moreover, inside a dungeon, it feels very immersion-breaking. I'd rather see it similar to Lord of the Rings Online's approach to siege weapons, where they're for instanced wars. They could be integrated to Guild battles or the arenas, but not as a talent, merely as an option or a role.

    As for what I like: the concept of a talent similar to puppetry, yet more of a "trap-setter" approach. What I'd rather see is if the Siege Kits were not weapons, but rather items that you can set up (and possibly retrieve). Or it could be new skills for Construct Alchemist, to combine with Barrier Spikes. This way, you can use these to plan ahead, and still be able to use the skillset you wanted (say, battle alchemy or archery; both need a bit of time and space).

    I'm chuckling, because you liked the idea of a talent similar to Puppetry, and your pfp is Huw.
  • GremmGremm
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,840
    Posts: 184
    Member
    edited November 16, 2018
    I think that the stun effect that you mentioned at the first part that i read is too much, i can see many people abusing such long stun attack and those mobs that actually matter will probably get a Stun Immunity skill if this talent gets out so.. Yeah.

    Also, make some space in your suggestion so it get easier to read please, i gave up before i even read 1/3 in. ^^"
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    It's just not feasible to use battering rams against mobs or anything that moves because they are basically small buildings on wheels, plus they require many people to operate them.
    NsBV8Ud.jpg
    But assuming your battering ram is basically a pet or summon that autonomously deals pierce damage to the enemy alongside the player, wouldn't it be simpler to give this functionality to a special golem? I can imagine being able to make many different types of specialized golems, including a piercing golem.


    I like the idea of a catapult. According to wiki, they're basically big constructions used to throw stuff very far (obviously, right? :D). I think it would be neat if we could build bombs, projectiles, and other generally dangerous things using a new crafting skill, then throw those things using catapults. For example, barrels of oil that explode and burn an area over time, simple balls of steel for physical damage and knockback, baskets of sticky webbing for slowing down a crowd of enemies. We could even throw our pets, golems, ourselves, anything that can fit.
    ledlebrgr
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,385
    Posts: 7,852
    Member
    I don't think Siege will be a good name for the talent.
    As siege being French translates to sit, a siege revolves around surrounding an enemy and sit it out via attrition.
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,610
    Posts: 95
    Member
    Maybe add it to alchemy to Magic? Like "Conjure Projectile" or something? It'd be interesting