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Get this lootbox out of my game, Senator Hawley?

ZuomoZuomo
Mabinogi Rep: 2,015
Posts: 150
Member
edited May 9, 2019 in Town Square
I've seen some people posting some videos and articles but we don't really have a big thread on it. Though I guess is not really necessary, I figure why not have a thread about it.

It's called the "Protecting Children From Abusive Games Act" An act proposed by Senator Josh Hawley to ban lootboxes and pay to win mechanics in games. On his twitter he has a video in which he explains what he means by lootboxes or P2W:

"A loot box is where, in the midst of a game, the person who is playing the game, a child in this case, can pay additional money in order to get certain advantages within the game. It's sort of a hidden fee.These are games that are usually free, or purport to be free, but then in the midst of the game, the companies say, "Well, listen. If you'll give us some money now, We'll give you some advantages in the game." and the point is to get the kids to keep playing, and to aslo to be spending their parents money. So, the companies get two things out of it: They get more money and they get the kids addicted to the game. This needs to stop. They need to be upfront about what their games are actually doing, and they need to stop practices that intentionally exploit children."

(As a warning for anyone that may care about it, as he is a politician you will of course find other political issues on his twitter and such, and people bringing other polticial issues into anything he may say about it.)

You can find more things he says on his twitter His own twitter, Press twitter.

You can also probably follow it on his own website. Here

Or of course just wait until articles come out when there's updates. All are okay.

Anyway what does the mabi community think of it?

Spareoh
  1. Yea or Nay?25 votes
    1. Yea
       72% (18 votes)
    2. Nay
       28% (7 votes)

Comments

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,055
    Posts: 7,775
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    If anyone wants more in depth info on gachapons
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gashapon

    In reality, there are a lot of products that can be classified as gachapons but are not. If you think about it, from video game, to the actual gacha machines in stores, to even cereal boxes. There are products that are designed to attract consumers to buy more to obtain a desirable product. Can it all be considered gambling? Yes, but is it completely the retailer/vendor's fault? No. There is a reason for the terms and conditions for many products and services, and minors should be subject to the monitoring by a parent or guardian. It is not a retailer's fault that parents fail to parent. But, of course there can be restrictions, but what I hope for is that there will be no double standard. All sides must bear some responsibility and not just a single party. But with the current way of politics, there will be inefficiency in enforcement and regulation, and there will be double standards.

    And you have to hope that regulators are not blinded one-sidedly that could disrupt a few industries out there. I believe one would have to understand the subject before making decisive decisions, but I doubt politicians and bureaucrats will get a full understanding. After all, they have a political agenda where they must position themselves to stay in office. Whether it be lobbying from the public or by organizations.
    Spareohvampryn
  • ZuomoZuomo
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,015
    Posts: 150
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    edited May 9, 2019
    If anyone wants more in depth info on gachapons
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gashapon
    But with the current way of politics, there will be inefficiency in enforcement and regulation, and there will be double standards


    A concern people seem to mention on this issue is the banning of Lootbox and p2w mechanics would result in a increase in price of games. Do you see it as a likely possibiity?

    Personally hope it gets more defined than "Some Advantages" as well that can fit a lot of things lol. Seems like it can be very "Pick and choose" like that. On the subject of bias it's worth it to note Hawley seems to be very against "Big Tech" from a short skim of his stuff, so I guess people unaware should have a grain of salt with his concern for the subject.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,055
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    Zuomo wrote: »
    If anyone wants more in depth info on gachapons
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gashapon
    But with the current way of politics, there will be inefficiency in enforcement and regulation, and there will be double standards


    A concern people seem to mention on this issue is the banning of Lootbox and p2w mechanics would result in a increase in price of games. Do you see it as a likely possibiity?

    Personally hope it gets more defined than "Some Advantages" as well that can fit a lot of things lol. Seems like it can be very "Pick and choose" like that. On the subject of bias it's worth it to note Hawley seems to be very against "Big Tech" from a short skim of his stuff, so I guess people unaware should have a grain of salt with his concern for the subject.

    It is possible as companies would have to readjust their marketing strategies, and for certain markets where regulation would not be taking place, they would keep the same strategies. However, in markets where regulation takes place and it is a market with core interest, they would have to spend extra to develop new marketing strategies to attract consumers and maintain growth.

    This, of course would apply to the video game industry. I believe that companies that rely on a virtual currency, such as Nexon PC games would have little problems adjusting. After all, their main product is the currency in which consumers purchase to exchange for shop items.
    But mobile games may have less certainty since they sell a lot in bundles and packages. Gachas are expanded and complex with free gachas and premium gachas. Customers are generally able to obtain premium items for free at a very low rate, but making purchases of bundled currency to increase chances of obtaining a certain item. However, there are some where you make a direct transaction of money for gacha, though those are rare especially here in North America, companies may be able to find their way to comply with potential regulations and maintain the same sale system, which is the purchase of a virtual currency to exchange for other virtual products. Barring a complete ban, which would definitely be met with protest from companies, there are definitely methods, especially for larger companies to bypass regulations.

    Now, will physical gachapons be classified as gambling? In North America, there are fewer gachapons available now than a decade or 2 decades ago as people have shifted away from physical retailers and with children nowadays preferring more virtual products than physical products at a young age, there is a dwindling demand for gachapons unless it's in specialty stores and there are specialty items. I believe physical gachas are still relatively cheap. I remember they used to be a quarter per spin, so that's a much lower cost. But the function is still the same, if people really want a certain item, the will keep trying and insert more coins. The question now is, if this is also considered gambling. And what about other games, like the claw game? While it is not exactly a gacha where you are guaranteed to get something, the claw game does not guarantee that you get anything, but people still take the risk to play it.

    How about companies that give away certain free items with the purchase of a different items, for example cereal boxes, or Happy Meals from McDonald's? Would these be considered as gachapons? In my opinion they are. Companies will claim that they are limited promotional items done in collaboration, but the purpose is the same, boosting sales attracting customers to buy this additional item, whether it be a certain toy or collectible coupons to redeem something else. However, I think there would be a large argument from these companies who will reject any accusations that these are to be labeled as gachapons.

    This is where double standards will take place in regulation. If bureaucrats and lawmakers cannot identify all products of this type and apply the same regulation, I highly doubt parties subject to regulations will go down without a fight.
    Darkpixie99ZuomoImaizumiSherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited May 9, 2019
    The gambling mechanics were first brought to attention via EA's Star Wars Battlefront.
    Long story short, everything was behind a paywall, and Disney got as mad as the players.

    The sad thing is that gachapons and loot boxes have been going on for nearly a decade, yet even gambling experts can't actually read.
    Nay, they brashly refuse to even think about losing profitable businesses over a single definition.
    According to Wikipedia:
    "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

    What's most tragic is that even if you are informed of the rates, you still don't know what you're going to get.
    Hence it is still an unknown variable.
    Also, Virtual Goods such as a Homestead Seed isn't a material good, it's strictly virtual.
    While it's virtual, players can still place a monetary material value based off of the real world RNG it takes to get the item.
    The gold we use to buy the item is earned either through game play, or eternal AFK shop keeping.
    The item remains within the game, it can never be taken out of the game, and vanishes into the virtual void when Mabinogi is sunset.
    All monetary in game value is lost alongside the game, the moment it shuts down. This means that there is no longer any value.
    When the game is sunset, player money has been placed on randomized items in a virtual world that simply does not exist.
    There is no value, yet value has been advertised and expressed by both consumer and company.
    So while there is no visible value, there is indeed value in each randomized item.
    (This is expressed in other games as either a colors system, or Common/Uncommon/Rare/Super Rare/Ultra Rare rates.)

    So yes, by literal definition, Mabinogi's gachapons are gambling.
    The gambling mechanic is called the false hope syndrome.
    In other words, it's hope in getting that one rare item before the in game price skyrockets.
    The player bets money, and receives nothing in return but the loss of money.
    You could technically argue that gachapons are a transaction scam.

    The problem with the "You need to parent/adult better" argument is that people have seen children no older than 10 with tablets and phones.
    I'd have to agree that targeting children at such a young age isn't just unhealthy, you're not giving them much of a choice with Pay To Win.
    Tell me how much patience you had as a kid, and try to explain how Pay To Win is good to your mental state at that age.

    hqdefault.jpg
    ZuomoSpareohPikangie
  • ZuomoZuomo
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,015
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    I highly doubt parties subject to regulations will go down without a fight.

    I also feel as though the actual players would just find a way around it. I mean when I was younger, nothing really stopped me from doing something I wasnt supposed to, besides, say the knowledge that I shouldn't. But if you really want to do something, some words on a paper isn't going to stop you from trying to find a way around it. I think thats where at any point in time the parenting really comes in.

    I do see the point of the happy meals and such lol. Never quite thought about it but you're always guaranted something just maybe not the thing you actually want, so maybe you go more often to buy more happy meals in order to get it. (Though I have heard of people asking for the toy they want and getting it, it seems to be dependent on location, so an exception.) But I don't think they are ever going to opt for regulating those real life examples.

    This makes me wonder if it's possible this would open the door for more regulation of games in the United States. (Anti-addiction regulation etc.)

    Also thanks for the detailed replies, Kensama, I'm obviously not super educated on the subjects, so it helps.
    Darkpixie99
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,055
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    Also here's a contradiction. They want to regulate gambling in video games, but sports betting in the US will soon be legal.
    Darkpixie99vampryn
  • LastSaturdayLastSaturday
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,215
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    Honestly there should just be a law regarding preying on addictive things without being licensed for it. So the creation of the license as well.

    Just make it into categories such as
    1. Rank 0: in game no ads or systems in place to coerce you into buying it no license required
    2. Rank 1: Services that offer a benefit in order to get an advantage. No license required but must be labeled with Paid Service on the box or advertising in a large enough spot to be seen and easily recognized at a glance
    3. Rank 2: Gacha/lottery. Labeled with addiction warning. If results of Gacha affect the base premise of the material or lead to someone getting ahead it must be licensed as such and be labeled as a Lottery
    4. Rank 3: Predation. Games utilizing a system which encourages buying and has systems and mechanics in place to further "encourage" buying in hopes of rewards in a lottery based system all of Rank 2 applies. Must be reviewed by "Some Board" also licensed. Requires Parental consent .
    5. Finally Rank 4: Subversive advertising attempting to sub consciously influence the player like a communist. Manipulation of this level may be separate but also a part of Rank 3 and upon review can be denied and if it is not specified for review can face criminal charges and a fine equal to double the amount brought in through sales of these items.

    I think this would be a good system
    THICCthighssavelivesxSho76
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,055
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    Honestly there should just be a law regarding preying on addictive things without being licensed for it. So the creation of the license as well.

    Just make it into categories such as
    1. Rank 0: in game no ads or systems in place to coerce you into buying it no license required
    2. Rank 1: Services that offer a benefit in order to get an advantage. No license required but must be labeled with Paid Service on the box or advertising in a large enough spot to be seen and easily recognized at a glance
    3. Rank 2: Gacha/lottery. Labeled with addiction warning. If results of Gacha affect the base premise of the material or lead to someone getting ahead it must be licensed as such and be labeled as a Lottery
    4. Rank 3: Predation. Games utilizing a system which encourages buying and has systems and mechanics in place to further "encourage" buying in hopes of rewards in a lottery based system all of Rank 2 applies. Must be reviewed by "Some Board" also licensed. Requires Parental consent .
    5. Finally Rank 4: Subversive advertising attempting to sub consciously influence the player like a communist. Manipulation of this level may be separate but also a part of Rank 3 and upon review can be denied and if it is not specified for review can face criminal charges and a fine equal to double the amount brought in through sales of these items.

    I think this would be a good system

    This will just benefit the corrupt even more.
  • LastSaturdayLastSaturday
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,215
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    How so? Activision right now specializes in subersive advertisment and owns many copyrights to these methodologies where as EA is more blagrant with theirs but still employs subversive tactics such as giving the Gacha weapon special focus
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,055
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    How so? Activision right now specializes in subersive advertisment and owns many copyrights to these methodologies where as EA is more blagrant with theirs but still employs subversive tactics such as giving the Gacha weapon special focus

    Exactly why they will manipulate things to their advantage. In the end, others will slowly drop out of the market, and like all things seem to be this era, the market run by oligopolies.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited May 14, 2019
    How so? Activision right now specializes in subersive advertisment and owns many copyrights to these methodologies where as EA is more blagrant with theirs but still employs subversive tactics such as giving the Gacha weapon special focus

    Exactly why they will manipulate things to their advantage. In the end, others will slowly drop out of the market, and like all things seem to be this era, the market run by oligopolies.

    tenor.gif
    I had to find a virtual dictionary, was not disappointed.
    The sad state of business is that Gaia Online had great consumer relations until a certain founding staff member quit.
    (He was like a god, he was that amazing and genius.)
    The guys they sold the site to ruined a virtual player made market to the point of no return to the golden age.
    The loot boxes got a company wide ban upon the staff member's return, and Gaia Online is now back to being a manageable player economy.
    Yet it doesn't change a company face, where an old marketing team allowed virtual hyperinflation with the RNG gachapon nature of literal recolored pixel items. You win some battles, but there are some people's hearts (and money) who can't be won back.
    If more companies continue to spit out the same loot box song and dance, players will mature and grow to realize the impact it has on everyone.
    Nexon has had eleven years, and yet it hasn't budged an inch from where it's marketing team last left off. (gachapon adverts)
    If you can't invent new marketing strategies, then you can't progress as a business.
    If they can't handle a legal 50 state wide ban on loot box systems, then maybe they should actually work and study harder.
    Monopolies got illegalized due to money and power being abused, so if that's how the government will view the loot box industry... then that's just how it is. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, end of story. (Hopefully in the Supreme Court.)

    *Edit*
    I may have failed to mention the loot boxes that Gaia Online's former employees/foreign overlords added, included randomized gold generators within the RNG item list. The gold generator loot boxes were removed immediately, and it was the currency generators that were strictly prohibited for virtual sale. I believe the loot box mechanic remained as a single randomized item from a visible list after code revisions, just in far less advertisement. It used to have the same massive advertisement spam and virtual market impact that you see in modern loot box "economies." (Steady player market value deflation with paying player base rise, heavy inflation with paying player base decline.)
    You could probably compare the Tarlach server's economy from 2014-2019 to prove my theory of loot box virtual market inflation/deflation.
    (With the addition of lootbox advertisements and the RNG factor.)
    tenor.gif
    Kensamaofmari
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,845
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    edited May 27, 2019
    Oh boy oh boy! It's happening! Both republicans and democrats have rallied behind the bill.

    Proposed Loot Box Ban Bill Gains Bipartisan Support - nichegamer.com

    “Only the addiction economy could produce a business model that relies on placing a casino in the hands of every child in America with the goal of getting them desperately hooked. I’m proud to introduce this landmark, bipartisan legislation to end to these exploitative practices.”
    - Republican Hawley

    "Inherently manipulative game features that take advantage of kids and turn play time into pay time should be out of bounds."
    - Democrat Markey

    “Congress must send a clear warning to app developers and tech companies: Children are not cash cows to exploit for profit.”
    - Democrat Blumenthal

    Here's the bill if you want to read it: https://www.hawley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/Loot-Box-Bill-Text.pdf
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited May 27, 2019
    Youtube has blown up, and everyone's talking about it.
    Nexon NA and KR, hold onto your knickers!
    No, seriously...
    If this affects the ESRB, then you're going to have two choices:
    Either change the Mabinogi ESRB rating, or hurry up with ditching gachapons and add in the Cash Shop modernization changes.
    (No doubt Belgium has still been complaining after the recent ordeal.)

    1700f44f-2559-4337-aef2-62c88855cc06.gif
    Wolfsinger
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Politicians and rich corporate lobbyists win the game!
    Darkpixie99
  • aef8234aef8234
    Mabinogi Rep: 660
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    My problem isn't that lootboxes is gambling, or it's bad for children. It just makes the argument easier to make, and 'vidya iz bad' is an easy thing to abuse to get laws passed around. Hell, WotC does a so-so job of using "lootboxes."


    The problem is that the games industry has been abusing bad practices (not practice, practices) like this for a long time now, and I'm betting a lot of consumers complained about it, and the industy did nothing.


    I'll give an example for this game - pay to win mechanics, like say reforges, people really didn't like that, some even left. Echostones may have allieviated the problem, but the problem has almost been a decade old, why was it so hard to fix?

    If they won't listen to us, or even at least pretend to, or even at least not paint the consumers as being whiny entitled retards , it makes sense to escalate it.
    Darkpixie99SpareohSherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited June 3, 2019
    aef8234 wrote: »
    The problem is that the games industry has been abusing bad practices (not practice, practices) like this for a long time now, and I'm betting a lot of consumers complained about it, and the industy did nothing.

    And other times consumers themselves will do nothing but put up with it for a while, until their wallet speaks loud enough that companies simply don't make a profit anymore.
    It's more or less a virtual monopoly over virtual items through showcasing them as something you can gamble for, rather than select-able merchandise.
    Gambling is plain banned in Hawaii, yet they didn't quite see loot boxes as gambling despite the mechanics.
    If you can monopolize something that hasn't had a chance to be judged by the legal system, then isn't that bad?
    Could it also be considered malpractice to not bother looking at the different legal angles in the first place? Or is it just a contagious case of laziness?
    I certainly hope it's the second one there, because it's going to make everyone in the industry look so much worse in court.

    The ESRB makes the rules for the video game industry so that parents can make certain that their children are safe and presented with pre-approved material.
    There was something on the news earlier this week about how there are characters in certain younger age rated games that smoke, yet there was talk of how a young child could be exposed to the idea that smoking could be cool through viewing this character. (Also the no advertisement rule that applies to the tobacco industry.)
    Now you could take that into perspective, as if the parent had ignored the ESRB classification and recommended age.
    How would we know for certain that loot boxes aren't gambling if Belgium has proved otherwise, and the ESRB has never officially consulted any bigwig legal counsel from all 50 states? Could we as consumers ever trust the ESRB again, if they do indeed get proved wrong in Uncle Sam's court of law? How might we as consumers feel about that sort of industry conundrum?
    Would we lash out worse than before, maybe even beg the government to send in employees to inspect the ESRB?
    Wouldn't that sort of backlash be going too far?

    If it truly does come to the position where the states need the government to tell them how to regulate video games...
    Then I'm sorry, you need to either quit business or not run an industry at all.
    You just can't handle the quick pace that legal terms and conditions can change.
    Nexon KR's owner has learned this lesson himself with his tax evasion (outed by the press), and it's part of why the company was put up for auction.
    Here's hoping we aren't the only ones worried about the development of this loot box case.
    It should shake industry owners down to the very core of the monopoly era.
    (Every pun intended.)

    giphy.gif

    Spareoh
  • SpareohSpareoh
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    Not to gear towards off topic, but does anyone play Overwatch? Because maybe Mabinogi doesn't need to get away with the lootboxes completely, but just change their mechanics.

    I stopped buying them in Mabi because I was tired of opening box after box and getting nothing but repeat dyes and "worthless" outfits. But back to OW, when this law was first presented, they changed the winning percentage in their loot boxes that reduced the chances of duplicates so that it counted less as "gambling." So that instead of a player opening 5 boxes and getting the same 5 skins they've already won, they'll get something different each time.

    Mabinogi is drastically different in gameplay and with the gatcha options, so of course it won't work exactly the same. The chance of duplicate dyes and items will probably always be there just because of how many more different options there are when it comes to items/outfits/dyes and probably no way to check them all before a gatcha opens. But maybe giving the rare outfits a 25% chance instead of a 5% chance or having less filler items in the boxes could help keep hope alive in getting our money worth.

    And the rest of it seems like politics and morals that are out of our hands.
    Darkpixie99Sherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited June 7, 2019
    Spareoh wrote: »

    I don't play Overwatch, but I heard that loot boxes were removed from the cash shop due to Belgium, and were placed as grind-able drops instead.
    Having such a change to Mabinogi would indeed increase the activity level, but then there's the equivalent exchange of how loot grinding mechanics tends to decline in popularity over the ages.
    While I think that such a change might be nice to have in Mabinogi, I believe the historical evidence of loot grind focused games from the 2000's not doing so hot is all the evidence we need to not recommend the Blizzard approach to Nexon. (As of yet.)
    It may be better for Nexon KR to instead upgrade the crafting system.
    This upgraded crafting system would be in order develop the required recipes, so that players can craft each and every 2010-2019 gachapon item. (This is in order to avoid the pay to win aspect of gachapons, as all items would be available to craft for free after a certain timeframe.)
    My recommended estimate would be to have that both developed and released within the span of 2021-2023.
    (Presuming the investigation will take at maximum four years, and a minimum of two.)
    Preventative measures will only hurt the next CEO's pride, but never their safety.
    (Next CEO- as in any presumed staff change after company auction.)
    *Edit: Then again, being able to craft everything brings us right back to the loot grind issue.

    Politics are actually in our hand through freedom of speech/discussion, lobbying, protesting, and ect.
    However, as there are 50 states with thousands of gambling law variations and loopholes... it is indeed not our place to investigate the issue ourselves. It's up to the federal government, and they're all on board with the investigation anyways.
    All we can do is hope that there's an open platform somewhere, and that someone is providing them enough information about the sketchiest mechanics of loot box abuse. After that, we pray that Nexon pays as much attention to these changes as they did to Belgium.
    Spareoh
  • PikangiePikangie
    Mabinogi Rep: 760
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    edited June 13, 2019
    The gambling mechanics were first brought to attention via EA's Star Wars Battlefront.
    Long story short, everything was behind a paywall, and Disney got as mad as the players.

    The sad thing is that gachapons and loot boxes have been going on for nearly a decade, yet even gambling experts can't actually read.
    Nay, they brashly refuse to even think about losing profitable businesses over a single definition.
    According to Wikipedia:
    "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

    What's most tragic is that even if you are informed of the rates, you still don't know what you're going to get.
    Hence it is still an unknown variable.
    Also, Virtual Goods such as a Homestead Seed isn't a material good, it's strictly virtual.
    While it's virtual, players can still place a monetary material value based off of the real world RNG it takes to get the item.
    The gold we use to buy the item is earned either through game play, or eternal AFK shop keeping.
    The item remains within the game, it can never be taken out of the game, and vanishes into the virtual void when Mabinogi is sunset.
    All monetary in game value is lost alongside the game, the moment it shuts down. This means that there is no longer any value.
    When the game is sunset, player money has been placed on randomized items in a virtual world that simply does not exist.
    There is no value, yet value has been advertised and expressed by both consumer and company.
    So while there is no visible value, there is indeed value in each randomized item.
    (This is expressed in other games as either a colors system, or Common/Uncommon/Rare/Super Rare/Ultra Rare rates.)

    So yes, by literal definition, Mabinogi's gachapons are gambling.
    The gambling mechanic is called the false hope syndrome.
    In other words, it's hope in getting that one rare item before the in game price skyrockets.
    The player bets money, and receives nothing in return but the loss of money.
    You could technically argue that gachapons are a transaction scam.

    The problem with the "You need to parent/adult better" argument is that people have seen children no older than 10 with tablets and phones.
    I'd have to agree that targeting children at such a young age isn't just unhealthy, you're not giving them much of a choice with Pay To Win.
    Tell me how much patience you had as a kid, and try to explain how Pay To Win is good to your mental state at that age.

    hqdefault.jpg

    This.
    Also, I think the whole point of making gambling illegal to begin with, the reason it's harmful to anyone, is more to do with the psychological effect on the human brain and how shady it is for businesses to use, the exploitation of an extremely common addiction, and addiction being a brain disease... that kind of psychological effect which is pretty much the same in game gachapons.
    From a human-compassionate point of view, it makes sense that these should not be allowed since they are taking advantage of those with RL medical disadvantages and endangering the health of those vulnerable (mental health is health), for the sake of making way more money than is needed to keep the business afloat. It should be seen as how harmful alcohol and tobacco are, and very much kept away from at least children (but ideally discouraged to everyone).
    Where they could keep the business up fine if they just sold items directly in a cash shop without manipulative RNG mechanics, and kept the game good quality to keep players happy, playing, and spending without feeling tricked, which is how an ideal and fair business should be.

    When I visit Japan, I feel a bit depressed seeing their real life version of gachapon which is so prevalent and considered just a normal thing for a long time... Such as RL clothing stores selling bags with random pieces of clothes inside during New Years sales.

    And then I return to USA, and see there are also starting to be stores in USA such as Hot Topic doing the same thing now but with various random junk!

    It makes me wonder... Without any laws to regulate or limit this, would we have to live in a world where our groceries will be bought via a Grocery Gachapon? Maybe someday when we want to buy a house, we'll have to play a gachapon to get a random house? This is really concerning about what direction we're headed into when Corporate Greed overwrites society's moral compass.

    I really hope more countries will start to follow Belgium, because I feel that's the only way to really get gachapon out of gaming. They kept gachapon in their games, and only disabled it for Belgian players, because they care more about the profits than their Belgian players (otherwise they'd offer a way for Belgian players to buy the items such as selling in cash shop). It is clear that they will not get rid of Gachapon until there are enough countries or a major profit country who also will ban gachapon, to the point that it stops becoming profitable for them. I believe if USA did for example, they surely would start to sell things directly in the shop.
    Darkpixie99Sherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited June 16, 2019
    Pikangie wrote: »
    It makes me wonder... Without any laws to regulate or limit this, would we have to live in a world where our groceries will be bought via a Grocery Gachapon? Maybe someday when we want to buy a house, we'll have to play a gachapon to get a random house? This is really concerning about what direction we're headed into when Corporate Greed overwrites society's moral compass.

    I think this is the point where I make a joke. (Or at least make a half sapped attempt at one.)
    Guess I should start by saying how society would be better off sending kids to farming school for summer camp, or how an old fashioned barn raising is great charity work for your resume.
    But I have to agree, the monopoly era hasn't gone away, so long as giant corporations keep buying up the smaller industries.
    It was only a matter of time before gambling once again became another focus of societal outrage.