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WINE/Proton on Linux Support

LunajackLunajack
Mabinogi Rep: 950
Posts: 3
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
As someone who have been playing Mabinogi for a long time, I'd really like to see Mabinogi to actually run through WINE/Proton on Linux. If you try to run Mabinogi on Linux, it will crash immediately when the anti-cheat portion starts. It's just frustrating that RuneScape with their NXT client (natively), and World of Warcraft (through WINE) can be run on Linux but not Mabinogi. Mabinogi is also being distributed through Steam which has Proton support and it'd be great to be able to see it being able to run it on Linux. Valve, developer of Steam, is pushing for such a move, so why not Nexon/devCat for Mabinogi?

The most common criticisms I've seen for this suggestion from the community or that I can see are:

1. This (WINE) goes against TOS since it'd involve modding/hacking/etc.

On the contrary no it doesn't. WINE is not a 3rd party application that "enables cheating, power-leveling, or accomplishing game tasks that cannot be accomplished". It also doesn't even give the ability to "reverse engineering, deriving source code, modifying, decompiling, disassembling". WINE (and Proton since it is based off WINE) is a compatibility layer that allows Windows applications to be run by translating Windows system calls into Linux system calls. There is no modifying of any Mabinogi files what so ever and it does not give any user any advantages when compared to running Mabinogi on Windows.

2. But WINE is a virtual machine/emulation software. Nexon explicitly bans this kind of stuff.

Yes but WINE is not a hypervisor (virtual machine software) nor is it an "emulator" in any conventional sense. Like I said before, it's a mere compatibility layer. Imagine Google Translating Spanish to English and back English to Spanish. That's all what WINE does. It's even in the name (WINE stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator). WINE can't generate multiple instances of a system so it can't be used to break TOS. If you're more akin to Windows, it's like the Windows 32-bit on Windows 64-bit subsystem (WoW64). Mabinogi actually runs on WoW64 since it's a 32-bit application if you're on 64-bit Windows. If Mabinogi can run on a compatibility layer like this, why can't it run on WINE on Linux?

3. But that means removing anti-cheat. Nexon can't protect its IP if it has to do that.

No it probably doesn't. If you remember when Windows 10 RTM came out on launch day, Mabinogi didn't run at all because of a previous anti-cheat solution that Nexon used. It was modified so it could run properly on Windows 10 after a few weeks. I do not know and will not claim to know what Nexon and its contractors did to solve this problem but it proves that they are capable of modifying an existing anti-cheat solution to a new platform. Although Nexon uses a new anti-cheat solution now, I feel that they could modify it so it could run through WINE/Linux. Because if they couldn't, Nexon would not be able to adjust their anti-cheat system to any new major Windows system changes in the future. I'm pretty sure the developers (or any developer working on a system like this) would have foreseen this coming.

4. But modifying such a(n anti-cheat) system would be a substantial cost to Nexon with little return. What gives?

That might be true. I don't know anything about Nexon's financial outlook/future plans/development plans for Mabinogi or Mabinogi's internal workings. But I will say this. If you could capture an audience, however small, it is still a gain. Even it does not meet a ROI, by putting Mabinogi (or any Nexon IP for that matter) forward to work on Linux (especially though Valve's Proton system), I can guarantee you that it'd be good PR and pretty big news. A large company that using anti-cheat made it work on Linux? What a forward thinking company! I'm not asking for a full re-write/revamp/large new feature or even a server merge. I'm just asking for a small part of the Mabinogi experience to be changed and it doesn't involve a whole new client.

I've always wanted to write a post about this for the last 9 years (and especially the last 3 years) but I was afraid about what others might say or the repercussions for asking for such a feature. Even if this doesn't reach anyone or gets deleted, I just wanted to let you, and the GNU/Linux community know that I tried.

If anyone has any problems with this post or if I got anything wrong, please tell me and I'll try and responds/explain/or fix it. Thanks!
Arimil

Comments

  • ArimilArimil
    Mabinogi Rep: 605
    Posts: 6
    Member
    As much as I'd love this to be a thing so that I can finally stop using Windows as my main OS. I don't foresee this being a reality for 5-10 more years. Only recently has this become a thing that's being pushed for, and that's only because of gaming services, like googles new Stadia thing.
  • RorichiRorichi
    Mabinogi Rep: 610
    Posts: 2
    Member
    I can imagine the conudrum for nexon here.. openingup to linux means also opening up to a host of other unix derived platforms... which even means it could be run on android.. now that for me as a common user would be awesome. and i think it could even bring a huge amount of users to the game. All that aside i would love to be able to access some basic things like messages, AH, inventory etc.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    edited May 16, 2019
    2J4lJuo.png
    Greta
  • NegumikoNegumiko
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,785
    Posts: 1,317
    Member
    it would be kind of cool as even I am not looking forward to going to a windows 10 operating system soon however mabi might just be to ancient to work on anything else either way.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Negumiko wrote: »
    it would be kind of cool as even I am not looking forward to going to a windows 10 operating system soon however mabi might just be to ancient to work on anything else either way.

    Given how old it is, it might also just end up opening a bunch of security issues.
  • kharimalexiakharimalexia
    Post: 1
    Member
    As a former paying customer who checks in for linux support every six-months or so, yes Proton or Wine support would be just lovely.
  • ArimilArimil
    Mabinogi Rep: 605
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited March 21
    2J4lJuo.png

    This simply isn't the case anymore, with the number of Steam Deck's being sold this number is surging. Also many developers get around this by simply enabling Linux support but continuing to say it isn't supported, test against a single distro (Ubuntu or Steam Deck is pretty common) and any support beyond that is up in the air.
  • LunajackLunajack
    Mabinogi Rep: 950
    Posts: 3
    Member
    Hi all, just an update after almost 6 years to the date to this original post, over half a decade later. Mabinogi is finally Silver status on ProtonDB. Thank you to all the Proton (and Valve), Linux kernel, WINE developers and brave testers for finally making this dream happen after many years of waiting.

    eb1q7nI.png
  • ExaetaExaeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 32
    Member
    That's pretty awesome, I've basically only been using windows because mabi wont run on linux... I don't think I have any other applications that didn't work on linux :) Which distros have you tested on?
  • ExaetaExaeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 32
    Member
    edited November 22
    Some thoughts:

    Works in Bottles, mostly. There are performance issues with sys-wine and while soda fixes them, it causes menu issues.

    Anything that opens a web view window will freeze on top of the game.

    The game frequently graphically freezes when switching between areas, but resizing the window seems to fix this for some reason.

    Most input sticking bugs are still present, but seem to happen a bit less frequently on Linux.