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This hurts to say but i think i need to leave Mabi

Comments

  • FaithrendFaithrend
    Mabinogi Rep: 985
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    Faithrend wrote: »
    Faithrend wrote: »
    Try being a human archer

    Pretty sure still better off than an alchemist.

    Idk I use both and I would say there about the same and I have reforged hunter huntress combo with reforged set but both my alchemy and archery weapons items are endgame not trying to get off topic just stating your not the only talent that has to look at fights strategically for me the whole point of roll playing a weaker talent is to still be helpful and clutch enough to do all content and or be helpful in a party

    I just found beginner alchemy to be a chore to train combat wise versus beginner archery.

    Yeah I do agree with you there I was comparing how effective completely ranked
    Kensamaofmari
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,065
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    edited July 19, 2019
    I'd say that Human Archery (if you choose to run Crash Shot) is much more beneficial than non erg-50 Alchemy as you can clear most non tech duin content with ease with crash shot alone.

    Here are some KR video examples what alchemy can do post erg 50 (and ego 75).



    This video showcases WC with ego level 75 and erg 50. I've started the video at the point where they activate the ego weapons ultimate skill but feel free to watch the rest of it.



    Here we have an example of erg 50 flame burst. This is currently doable in NA as it doesn't require the ego skills to function like water cannon.


    The issue is both of these require erg 50, erg 45 (even with Perseus cylinder) can't actually do these things. You need to have the max Chain Cylinder reduction and have the max Flame Bust Cycle decrease.
  • BorrivaBorriva
    Mabinogi Rep: 670
    Posts: 8
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    edited July 19, 2019
    I'm level 6612. I'm Vates. Master Battle Alchemy, Master Transmutation, Master Ninja, Master Combat. I'm already training Chain and Archery for stats, I Don't use lullaby because it doesn't fit my play style.

    I'd agree with Golem being a missile. If it had more than a 30m range and didn't lock up if you aren't holding its hand.

    I have beam swords. *sighs* I shouldn't have mentioned RP. My point was. Alchemy is my primary combat and I'd like it to be so.

    And my only point is this. I like Alchemy. I feel like it's constantly getting nerfed. It's over priced, requires to much effort, and has too little payoff.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
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    edited July 19, 2019
    Honestly, the reason for my hiatuses is that the approach to newer content is awfully boring or just awful. I like to play with other people, but this focus on single player content over teamplay is frustrating, especially since I am still nowhere near strong enough for the content that does "require" teamwork.

    For me, Mabinogi is a semi-casual experience, and I want the multiplayer aspect to be encouraged as more than just a combat party necessity, but an end in itself.

    Who plays MMOs like single player games, really? Plenty of people, sure, but that's not really me.
  • asnscorpioasnscorpio
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,500
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    -shrugs- I always have alchemy on hand. It's great to have around especially golden time and elemental wave with shock to buy you some time. I don't usually see ppl use Shock as that's more like the very last resort for most higher levels. Which tells how viable it is when needed.

    Should definately max out the rest of the talents. The rebis guard cylinder opens up so many other options. I would say that it's more of a sit and wait game for them to revamp the skills as newer content comes out. Really they should of unlocked the Golem restriction by now. Then again....seeing so many giant golems that block the screen is probably not the way to go lol.

    Shadow Missions...even lower level ones give enough crystals. Should do some short easy ones that don't take up too much durabilty. I mean it was a pain to buy crystals before and now....never again with the revamp imo. Only concern is repairs...which is why ppl only do Elites mostly nowadays to pay quite a bit of it off. Use the event to your benefit since it's 50% off i think? Definately missed the free repairs at the beginning.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
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    Borriva wrote: »
    I'm level 6612. I'm Vates. Master Battle Alchemy, Master Transmutation, Master Ninja, Master Combat. I'm already training Chain and Archery for stats, I Don't use lullaby because it doesn't fit my play style.

    I'd agree with Golem being a missile. If it had more than a 30m range and didn't lock up if you aren't holding its hand.

    I have beam swords. *sighs* I shouldn't have mentioned RP. My point was. Alchemy is my primary combat and I'd like it to be so.

    And my only point is this. I like Alchemy. I feel like it's constantly getting nerfed. It's over priced, requires to much effort, and has too little payoff.

    I would strongly suggest getting lullaby included in your playing style, it is simply too useful a skill not to have, as everyone should maximize their agro control tool-box. For example, the barrier to hide behind and the monster are too far away, from each other, to use golem. Shoot the monster, it chases you to near the barrier, use lullaby, run behind the barrier, plunk down a golem, go to town, while going to town, and the monster agros the golem, plunk down hydras to help out said golem. Of course, in that example, you could've just used sandburst, instead of lullaby, but if you're being chased by more than one monster then lullaby is better.

    But don't get me wrong I do feel your pain: whilst, I think Construct Alchemy is the cats meow, Battle Alchemy does leave both of us wanting.
  • MizukoMizuko
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,315
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    Alchemy was never nerfed. Just underpowered since ninja and chain blade came out. Alchemy is definitely a situational tactic than an offensive tactic.
    Rain Casting is good for MA and helpful to Synthesis when running Dorren's Request if it came out as a daily.
    Wind Blast and Sand Burst is good to keep difficult mobs at bay, especially Rabbie Phantasm and Tech Duinn missions.
    Shock and Brionac helps chip down boss raids.
    I was hoping they can revamp alchemy with more offensive support.
  • ChaosShadowChaosShadow
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,590
    Posts: 139
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    edited July 20, 2019
    Mizuko wrote: »
    Alchemy was never nerfed. Just underpowered since ninja and chain blade came out. Alchemy is definitely a situational tactic than an offensive tactic.
    Rain Casting is good for MA and helpful to Synthesis when running Dorren's Request if it came out as a daily.
    Wind Blast and Sand Burst is good to keep difficult mobs at bay, especially Rabbie Phantasm and Tech Duinn missions.
    Shock and Brionac helps chip down boss raids.
    I was hoping they can revamp alchemy with more offensive support.

    Alchemy has certainly been nerfed. Just not directly.

    Most of the endgame content ignores the aggro effect of Rain Casting, and Barrier Spikes can't be used period. Not that Barrier Spikes would be particularly useful in that content as they currently are, but still.

    The rest of alchemy is still viable as a talent overall, but as Joey said, it's much too expensive to make it viable in endgame content...

    Honestly, I started my current main character with alchemy and eventually dropped it for magic, so I can understand where OP is coming from to an extent. I would like to see some beneficial changes made to the Alchemy talents themselves, as introducing new systems (Erg and the Ego revamp) and new weapons (Perseus and Revenant cylinders) just seems like a lazy or roundabout way to fix a talent's faults.
  • OdinMOdinM
    Mabinogi Rep: 610
    Posts: 15
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    edited July 20, 2019
    Having a hard time being sympathetic.

    I'm a mage. And an elf. Once upon a time I was awesome. Now I'm just a pack mule in most parties

    Unfortunately the new skillsets methodically power creep in order to get people using them in preference to the older ones. And it has left more than a few of the older skillsets completely outclassed. And Reforges are an in your face pay2win mechanic to the point that I will not use them at all. My power is my own, I don't rely on fancy equipment to achieve it. Almost no reforges and only a couple of items have gotten upgrade stones. In a way, I am very much still playing the game as it was at my peak, G14.

    People can literally punch for higher damage than a fully charged thunder will do for each bolt, and deal that damage 5 and 10 times faster than I do. Assuming I can even charge up at all, newer endgame content like Rabbie Phantasm the mobs will not give me time to do it. Spamming sand burst and being dead in a corner was the bulk of my time down there.
    GretaItzu
  • GretaGreta
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    It's all about reforges anyway....
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,065
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    Mizuko wrote: »
    Alchemy was never nerfed. Just underpowered since ninja and chain blade came out. Alchemy is definitely a situational tactic than an offensive tactic.
    Rain Casting is good for MA and helpful to Synthesis when running Dorren's Request if it came out as a daily.
    Wind Blast and Sand Burst is good to keep difficult mobs at bay, especially Rabbie Phantasm and Tech Duinn missions.
    Shock and Brionac helps chip down boss raids.
    I was hoping they can revamp alchemy with more offensive support.

    Alchemy has certainly been nerfed. Just not directly.

    Most of the endgame content ignores the aggro effect of Rain Casting, and Barrier Spikes can't be used period. Not that Barrier Spikes would be particularly useful in that content as they currently are, but still.

    The rest of alchemy is still viable as a talent overall, but as Joey said, it's much too expensive to make it viable in endgame content...

    Honestly, I started my current main character with alchemy and eventually dropped it for magic, so I can understand where OP is coming from to an extent. I would like to see some beneficial changes made to the Alchemy talents themselves, as introducing new systems (Erg and the Ego revamp) and new weapons (Perseus and Revenant cylinders) just seems like a lazy or roundabout way to fix a talent's faults.

    shock seems ineffective lategame too.
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 443
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    edited July 24, 2019
    I tried alchemy in a few hardmodes and elites yesterday

    Aaaaaaaand. I am entirely convinced that it does flat-damage and ignores defense and stuff?

    One thing is for certain though. It is as slow as poor little old archery, but it seems to always hit insane amounts for me.

    - - - - Except for shock and heat buster, which shock only does like 100s and 300s at rank 1, while heat buster never does more than 1000 damage even with an erg gospel cylinder with +22 of every element and almost 2000 of every healthstat. Are these skills broken? Unupdated?
  • justshowingjustshowing
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,060
    Posts: 156
    Member
    i've been battleing depression myself too.
    mabinogi has helped a lot to subside my issues as well as therapy.
    but the whole.. pay to win , and paying for more dps, and the most taboo thing the devs have done is gacha beauty coupons have made me extra salty.

    i got rent to pay. i can't afford these nice things.
    i'm doing the best to get out of my bad situations but, well, maybe i spelt too much info but yeah..

    i just feel you when you said your battleing depression. hang in there, your not alone :(

    plus.. in order for alchemy to be relivant you'd need max erg cylinders.. or erg any weapon you'd want to main as...
    its too much work for a small dopamine hit.

    an example is i want to get a more spammy crash shot. but i'd need a erg 50 bow. but thats all thats relivant to me from erg bows.
    i'm glad theres a path to getting your favorite talent weapons more practical, but the thing is the dopamine hit from finally achieving what you want is limited and wears out fast. you find yourself asking. was it worth all that time?

    lately i've been more devoted to the life skills of mabinogi, no one wants to do it. and i feel useful and happy to see others achieve there goals because i did the part that they couldn't give time for.

    my best advise for combating prolonged depression is this:
    everyone suffers to some degree, seek a meaningful life and not a happy one. and joy will come in good timing.
    GretaWolfsingerKensamaofmariSherriRadiant DawneikodenChaosShadowItzu
  • asnscorpioasnscorpio
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,500
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    Sure, you like alchemy...but that doesn't mean you should only choose that while playing the game. There is more out there than that. I know that you appreciate it ...but at some point alchemy will always be around and is always needed to some degree. I trained in other talents and always had alchemy on your second slot...or even just the rebis guard cylinder. I know I always have a cylinder and rebis guard cylinder on me wheverever I go.

    Those who state that alchemy was never nerfed....I don't think people remember when golems used to be huge and had Rank 1 Windmill and could take on the half if not the whole room with it. They changed that so golems were dinky(I think possibly rank 5 golem size) and rank 5 windmill.

    Then they changed up sand burst because it was too good for it's own and needed a cooldown per charge rather than 5 charging it.

    They made new content that disallowed the use of barrier spikes or golems.

    The way I see it....Alchemy is too strong for them to handle. My pet golem saved my butt in G21-23. Yes, I still use golem wherever I can. I shall wait in the shadows until I see the new awakening. Stay positive, time will come.....Golden_Time.png
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    I tried alchemy in a few hardmodes and elites yesterday

    Aaaaaaaand. I am entirely convinced that it does flat-damage and ignores defense and stuff?

    I think there is a misunderstanding....the revamp of Alchemy uses your base stats such as...HP/MP/STAM. Then you have your alchemy orb elements to fill up. Everytime you use a skill..it is dependent on your current pool. Should it decrease...your damage will scale likewise for certain ones. So it becomes imperative to keep those nearly full at all times for maximum output.
    Example: You have full Stamina..and your alchemy is dependent on that for maximum damage. If you have half the stamina and attack...it will be a lot lower output than if you were at maximum stamina by a long shot.

    Alchemy is one of the strongest because it is so versitile...it is often undermined because of the load time via chain cylinder cooldown that nerfs it. Also your talents play a big roll in this as well because you can only get so much stats level wise. Alchemy talent was one of the mostly used talents because it gave ppl a bigger HP/MP/STAM pool period back when it came out...it might still.
  • ByffByff
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    That's why I always carry a sword as a backup in dungeons when my alchemy is overpowered but that's just more skills you have to rank and doesnt really help the issue. Sorry you're having such a hard time
  • TNinjaTNinja
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    Oh alchemy. I haven't seen anyone use it in a while, aside from pre-combat setup.

    Anyone who actually uses it have invested ridiculously into it, and those who doesn't, are just considered mediocre.


    Improper power balancing isn't a new thing. Especially if the dev team keeps switching out.
    Crims wrote: »
    I still feel weak, as an Alchemist.

    Well there's your problem.
    *Adresses a problem*
    "Well there's your problem, you're using the problem"

    I'm not sure that's how this criticism works.

  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
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    edited August 7, 2019
    I soloed a little bit of Peaca Intermediate. I got all the way to the boss room with some raincast-spam and nuke-critted a few ghasts here and there with chaincasted watercannon.

    Died to the boss though, ghast spamming bastard xD
    For everything else I used chains.

    This is just with a gospel cylinder(Blue 5::Erg 5::29 gross alchemic damage), an unupgraded guard cylinder, the occasional magic staff-use(unupgraded) on red ghasts, and Rental chains for mob spam.

    Alchemy did alright, just don't go soloing with slow talents like puppetry or alchemy. Grab like two or three alchemists and nuke everything, cover eachother's loadtimes. My usual MO is to use spellwalk-master title and spam fireballs with another fireball-spammer friend I've been playing with for years. We spam nukes. If you PUG with strangers, you're gonna have a bad time playing the way you want to play.

    That's pretty much all I can leave for you. If you already fancy yourself as a professional alchemist: Just know your strengths, and the game will follow suit, . . except for those stupid g23 dungeons, they're screwed
    Danievictria
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
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    TNinja wrote: »
    Oh alchemy. I haven't seen anyone use it in a while, aside from pre-combat setup.

    Anyone who actually uses it have invested ridiculously into it, and those who doesn't, are just considered mediocre.


    Improper power balancing isn't a new thing. Especially if the dev team keeps switching out.
    Crims wrote: »
    I still feel weak, as an Alchemist.

    Well there's your problem.
    *Adresses a problem*
    "Well there's your problem, you're using the problem"

    I'm not sure that's how this criticism works.

    Alchemy is just a supplemental talent. Like shock, or rain casting, or hydra. It's really difficult to make it your main skill set. I mean I guess it's fine if you don't mind staying out of really hard dungeons and missions and stuff. I will also say that compared to other skills - it's really slow and that makes it worse.

    There is that better criticism for you? =P
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Calling it all alchemy because it's all under the alchemy tab is as misleading as calling archery close combat. Battle alchemy is kinda meh, but construct alchemy does have its uses. How it assists in crafting being out of scope of this discussion, it is true that for combat it is slow and boring. But in situations where you are completely outclassed by the situation, it has the best chance of seeing you through it precisely because it is slow and boring.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    Alchemy needs a revamp.
    Itzu