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Increase the bank's gold capacity (again)

JJJJ
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in Feedback and Suggestions
100m is the new 10m. We need to reflect this in the bank so that we can actually buy stuff from the auction house I suggest increasing the bank capacity to 100m (or 200m) per character instead of just 20m. Also increase the check sizes too for outside-of-bank storage. 5m just isn't enough anymore.

Comments

  • EmilieBerryEmilieBerry
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    edited September 6, 2019
    JJ wrote: »
    100m is the new 10m. We need to reflect this in the bank so that we can actually buy stuff from the auction house I suggest increasing the bank capacity to 100m (or 200m) per character instead of just 20m. Also increase the check sizes too for outside-of-bank storage. 5m just isn't enough anymore.

    not everyone has capability to have more than 100m on even more than 1 character...
    you're asking for something that benefits the rich and alot of them are gold buyers/dupes.

    Nexon would never do that
    GretatheAlphaMelonSherristarkiller1286Alshian
  • JJJJ
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,185
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    I would appreciate you not passive aggressively implying that I am a gold buyer/duper. It's not hard to make 100m's of gold if you're over level 1k as long as you can figure out the market and know how to save. From what I've heard, selling gachas/reforges can also make a lot of gold. Why would Nexon want to not support the people paying them?
    That aside, what is your argument against this idea other than "it will affect other people but not me"?
    Out of interest, could you tell me where you got your information about a lot of the rich being gold buyers, etc?
  • DraechDraech
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    Now calm down, boy. Not once did anyone call you a gold buyer/duplicator. The thing is, though, that a lot of those who'll benefit from that are the rich, encouraging needless inflation, and a lot of people who have a bunch of gold didn't necessarily get it the old fashioned way. Also, it won't increase the sale of reforges, since that's not the way the reforge marketing system works.

    It's meant to encourage you to spend a dollar for a boost, and then another when you didn't get the boost you want. Selling reforges for Gold means the buyer (not the middle man) will stop once they run out of gold, whereas forcing them to spend a dollar might incite them to spend another and will only limit them by their wallet. It's scummy, but it's the way it works.
    GretatheAlphaMelonSherriBronzebreak
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    We want to contain the hyperinflation, not boost it.
    theAlphaMelon
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
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    We want to contain the hyperinflation, not boost it.

    There is no containing it... sad to say.
  • JJJJ
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,185
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    If we able able to do more transaction, especially large transactions, then due to the transfer fee, the total amount of gold in the system will go DOWN, not up. Furthermore, the more gold being spent, the higher the chance it will be spent on the poorer players.
    Punishing the rich because of what other people did makes no sense at all.
    I never said anything about reforges being effected, only that Nexon benefits from them due to people spending money on them. It is in Nexon's best interest for them to sell. I'm not sure how Nexon would feel about you describing their direct customers "scummy".
    The worst thing to do to make the economy worse is to inject more gold into the system. The fastest way to do this used to be Conflict spam, which is why Nexon nurf'd it - to help the economy. Using the Auction House and trading with other players does not put more gold into the system. As I said before, if anything, it HELPS the economy due to the transfer fees.
    Myself and other people I know make a lot of gold fastest by using the market rather than farming gold. We are not damaging the economy and should certainly not be punished for it.
    Furthermore, I still don't have an answer for any of the three questions I put forward in my previous comment. From where I'm standing, you're just envious of what people earned.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    While you get pay a bigger fee at the same percentage for a larger deposit or withdrawal from the bank, the individuals doing the transactions will lose the amount of the fee, but that does not affect the supply. Gold botters are always finding way to generate gold and then sell them to people desperate for gold.

    It's not about being envious of what people earn. I have less than 60 mil and I am content with what I have because for many of the items that are listed out there, they are not worth the price they are listed.

    This hyperinflation was not created by Nexon, not by gold botters, but by the players themselves. Players wanted a free market, not limited to premium service, no regulation, no price caps or price floors and people try their luck on gacha items by setting up extortion level prices that everyone else has followed to continue to expand the supply of gold and the problems of inflation.
    theAlphaMelonSherri
  • JJJJ
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,185
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    While you get pay a bigger fee at the same percentage for a larger deposit or withdrawal from the bank, the individuals doing the transactions will lose the amount of the fee, but that does not affect the supply. Gold botters are always finding way to generate gold and then sell them to people desperate for gold.

    It's not about being envious of what people earn. I have less than 60 mil and I am content with what I have because for many of the items that are listed out there, they are not worth the price they are listed.

    This hyperinflation was not created by Nexon, not by gold botters, but by the players themselves. Players wanted a free market, not limited to premium service, no regulation, no price caps or price floors and people try their luck on gacha items by setting up extortion level prices that everyone else has followed to continue to expand the supply of gold and the problems of inflation.

    You say this like it's a bad thing. Seems to me that the only change is that fewer people are relying on farming gold and more are focused on trading. A larger bank gold capacity would only help this. I concede that it can be seen as unfair that people who have money irl end up with easy gold, but I don't see a way around it at this time. Making gacha/shop items untradeable would fix this specific issue, but it would mean that people without money irl would not get access to any gacha/shop items, aside from that it would also frustrate customers when they got duplicate items from the gacha.

    And a side note, the seller pays the fee in the Auction House, not the buyer. Although I'm not really sure why it matters who pays it. Also, an item isn't over priced if there are people willing to pay for it.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    JJ wrote: »
    While you get pay a bigger fee at the same percentage for a larger deposit or withdrawal from the bank, the individuals doing the transactions will lose the amount of the fee, but that does not affect the supply. Gold botters are always finding way to generate gold and then sell them to people desperate for gold.

    It's not about being envious of what people earn. I have less than 60 mil and I am content with what I have because for many of the items that are listed out there, they are not worth the price they are listed.

    This hyperinflation was not created by Nexon, not by gold botters, but by the players themselves. Players wanted a free market, not limited to premium service, no regulation, no price caps or price floors and people try their luck on gacha items by setting up extortion level prices that everyone else has followed to continue to expand the supply of gold and the problems of inflation.

    You say this like it's a bad thing. Seems to me that the only change is that fewer people are relying on farming gold and more are focused on trading. A larger bank gold capacity would only help this. I concede that it can be seen as unfair that people who have money irl end up with easy gold, but I don't see a way around it at this time. Making gacha/shop items untradeable would fix this specific issue, but it would mean that people without money irl would not get access to any gacha/shop items, aside from that it would also frustrate customers when they got duplicate items from the gacha.

    And a side note, the seller pays the fee in the Auction House, not the buyer. Although I'm not really sure why it matters who pays it. Also, an item isn't over priced if there are people willing to pay for it.

    No, I'm saying that no control, no regulation is bad. Uncontrolled gold supply is one of the reasons why people have left the game.
    theAlphaMelonAlshian
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Nexon must just want you to buy up to the limit of 200 characters for the purpose of bank gold capacity and check storage space.
    I'm joking, though I'm sure they'd appreciate getting people to spend NX regardless of whether it's from purchasing Reforges, Gacha, or anything else.
    Though there's also the thing where it's only 20m per character up to the 10th character, where after that each character adds a 10m limit.

    I do think your proposed amount of 100m/200m per character is too high, though.
    If people are capable of spending such high amounts of money in a single transaction, then things that are sought after will probably end up going for that huge amount of money.
    You can see this already, people sure weren't selling things for hundreds of millions in the past.
    Though as funny as it is that you can charge billions for an item on the AH, the lack of ability to actually store that much in a way that you can actually purchase it on the AH keeps such things from actually rising that high in any serious capacity. For now anyways.
    Could just be the AH version of how people would mark things on Housing for higher than a house could hold as a sort of "Note me if interested, it'll cost ya" kind of way.

    And who knows, maybe there's someone out there who has the limit of 200 Characters and can hold 2.1B in their bank just itching to buy someone's Dead Bee off the Auction House for 2,000,000,000 gold.
    But now it's the seller who wouldn't have the bank capacity to hold that much. :(


    I guess changing things so that Pets count towards the account bank limit would help, but still.
    --
    As an aside, you can make Checks above 5m.
    ...If you're a member of a Guild that's currently the Guardian Guild of a town.
    Guardian Guild members can make checks up to 15m at their town's respective bank.
    If you're rich and savvy, you probably also have a strong character, could give applying a shot.
    Well, it's not much of an option, but it's out there anyways.
    Weirdly, I thought VIP players had a bonus where they could make larger checks, but I'm not seeing it.

    Making checks of perfectly equal values stack would also be neat to enhance storage capacity, but again that doesn't seem like it'd help for indirect purchases like AH or Housing.
    JJKensamaofmari
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Nexon must just want you to buy up to the limit of 200 characters for the purpose of bank gold capacity and check storage space.
    I'm joking, though I'm sure they'd appreciate getting people to spend NX regardless of whether it's from purchasing Reforges, Gacha, or anything else.
    Though there's also the thing where it's only 20m per character up to the 10th character, where after that each character adds a 10m limit.

    I do think your proposed amount of 100m/200m per character is too high, though.
    If people are capable of spending such high amounts of money in a single transaction, then things that are sought after will probably end up going for that huge amount of money.
    You can see this already, people sure weren't selling things for hundreds of millions in the past.
    Though as funny as it is that you can charge billions for an item on the AH, the lack of ability to actually store that much in a way that you can actually purchase it on the AH keeps such things from actually rising that high in any serious capacity. For now anyways.
    Could just be the AH version of how people would mark things on Housing for higher than a house could hold as a sort of "Note me if interested, it'll cost ya" kind of way.

    And who knows, maybe there's someone out there who has the limit of 200 Characters and can hold 2.1B in their bank just itching to buy someone's Dead Bee off the Auction House for 2,000,000,000 gold.
    But now it's the seller who wouldn't have the bank capacity to hold that much. :(


    I guess changing things so that Pets count towards the account bank limit would help, but still.
    --
    As an aside, you can make Checks above 5m.
    ...If you're a member of a Guild that's currently the Guardian Guild of a town.
    Guardian Guild members can make checks up to 15m at their town's respective bank.
    If you're rich and savvy, you probably also have a strong character, could give applying a shot.
    Well, it's not much of an option, but it's out there anyways.
    Weirdly, I thought VIP players had a bonus where they could make larger checks, but I'm not seeing it.

    Making checks of perfectly equal values stack would also be neat to enhance storage capacity, but again that doesn't seem like it'd help for indirect purchases like AH or Housing.

    This is the best explanation for both camps.
  • JJJJ
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    Let me see if I understand. You would rather that the person who is faster to buy an item should get the item over someone who has spent all the time and effort saving up for it? And the person who is selling the item shouldn't be allowed to charge above a certain amount no matter how much time and effort and/or money they put into it? Why would people bother farming for expensive mats or crafting expensive gear?
    Maybe 100m per character is too high, although I disagree with the arguments for it. What capacity increase would you feel is more fair? Keep in mind that Nexon raised it to 20m per character already to help keep up with the market, I think they could continue to do this.
  • GretaGreta
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    yNiBv8S.gif
    Alshian
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    JJ wrote: »
    Let me see if I understand. (1) You would rather that the person who is faster to buy an item should get the item over someone who has spent all the time and effort saving up for it? And (2) the person who is selling the item shouldn't be allowed to charge above a certain amount no matter how much time and effort and/or money they put into it? Why would people bother farming for expensive mats or crafting expensive gear?
    (3) Maybe 100m per character is too high, although I disagree with the arguments for it. What capacity increase would you feel is more fair? Keep in mind that Nexon raised it to 20m per character already to help keep up with the market, I think they could continue to do this.

    Responding to this in parts
    (1) Hmmm? Isn't that how markets work? It doesn't matter whether there are controls or not, when everything is in a free market, it's first come first serve. If there was a reliable player economy where players depended on each other to produce from in game materials that will allow the producing player to stick with the trade by supplying the market with items, that would create patrons who could commission ahead of time. That is the player economy I would like to see.

    (2) Using the same argument of having a more reliable and player dependent economy would decrease the need for individuals to grind all out themselves to get certain mats to craft high grade items to sell. Producers shouldn't have to slave over making something and then say, well, I'm going to charge at this extortion level price because I worked my butt off to make it. Take it or leave it.

    (3) I think if the monetary situation gets balanced, and there is economic growth, rather than hyperinflation and a flood of the money supply would allow for gradual increases of a bank cap.
    IyasenuSherri
  • SherriSherri
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    JJ wrote: »
    I would appreciate you not passive aggressively implying that I am a gold buyer/duper. It's not hard to make 100m's of gold if you're over level 1k as long as you can figure out the market and know how to save. From what I've heard, selling gachas/reforges can also make a lot of gold. Why would Nexon want to not support the people paying them?
    That aside, what is your argument against this idea other than "it will affect other people but not me"?
    Out of interest, could you tell me where you got your information about a lot of the rich being gold buyers, etc?

    Sigh.. I can't believe that people still think that everyone has the irl $ to burn on gacha -_-
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    JJ wrote: »
    Let me see if I understand. You would rather that the person who is faster to buy an item should get the item over someone who has spent all the time and effort saving up for it? And the person who is selling the item shouldn't be allowed to charge above a certain amount no matter how much time and effort and/or money they put into it? Why would people bother farming for expensive mats or crafting expensive gear?
    Maybe 100m per character is too high, although I disagree with the arguments for it. What capacity increase would you feel is more fair? Keep in mind that Nexon raised it to 20m per character already to help keep up with the market, I think they could continue to do this.

    Faster to buy is kinda how auctions work.
    Well, faster to be the last bidder. (There's a better way to word that)
    I mean if both of these players had the same amount of buying power in the first place, wouldn't the faster one win in the end anyways?
    If A was selling for 1M, and B and C both had 1M to spend, wouldn't whoever got to A first be the one to get it?
    It's not the end of the world, the one left out now would just have to wait for another A to show up.
    Unless it's a problem of scarcity, which it usually is, in which case that's more a problem itself.

    But your "why bother" question isn't just a money thing.
    I mean, "why bother" running top-tier content if the only rewards is getting materials to make weapons to run the high-tier content you were already running, but this time marginally easier, except you already had what you wanted because you bought it in the first place?

    It just feels like enabling the ability to throw even more money at something isn't the right way to go.
    If "an item is worth as much as someone is willing to buy it for" why not just take it another step and say "an item can only be as worth as much as someone is able to pay" when thinking in terms of gold storage restrictions. No matter whether the limit stays the same or increases, it's always going to come down to the person with more characters or otherwise more storage space, is going to have more spending/selling power.
    In which case another limit increase isn't really solving a larger issue, it's just bandaid solution that'd help out right now until the same issue came up, just later down the line this time.

    After all, if someone wants to sell something for 2B gold, and let's say in this example that there were buyers out there that would pay that much for the item, but the seller wouldn't be able to hold that much themselves if they did sell it for that much, and no buyer, even if they wanted to, had enough space to hold that much gold, then will they just sit there saying "S> Item/2B" forever or will they eventually acquiesce to an actually attainable amount? (for this example replace my silly 2B example with another big number that isn't quite so ludicrous, yet still is too much for your bank/trade window to hold)
    I guess in the worst case it would lead to RMT, which is bad, but that's usually a case of the buyer not having the gold, or of gold not being sought after by the seller in the first place.

    Though it feels more like it's the "100m has become to new 10m" that's the issue, rather than bank limits.
    And there's different things contributing to that.
    From unsatisfactory drop rates, to mission difficulty prohibiting accessibility (Elite Feth is a prime example) and thereby exacerbating the issues related to low drop rates, to just plain in accessibility in general (looking at Secret SMs, especially the ones that can drop Patterns for Erg Sacrifices the drop rates of passes to those are scary bad, for content-related examples and limited-time and/or gachapon-exclusive items as a paid example).
    It does all seem to loop back into the "why bother" part.
    Why bother running the same missions over and over to incrementally increase your ability to run the same missions over and over?

    Oh as a final thing, the "20m per character" gold limit is half-true isn't it?
    It's 20m per character up to your 10th character, then for every character after that, it's 10m, right?
    That's just why I keep saying 2B as my silly number, since it's basically (10 x 20m) + (190 x 10m) (Up to 300 characters on an account, up to 200 of which can be actual characters and the rest can only be pets)

    As for a suggestion in place of 100m/200m, how about making the 11th and onwards characters count their full 20m would be a start.
    Making Pets count towards the bank limit could help as well, making them give an additional 20m apiece like regular characters.
    That way if your account was totally filled with characters/pets it could hold up to 6B in gold just in the bank.

    And with all those alts/pets that'd be plenty of space to store your checks.
    Check stacking would also be nice, though it would kind of trivialize any Check Size Limit by simply turning it into a "tedium of making 3x the checks as a Guardian Guild Member" limit. If that's worth consideration.
    Alshian
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
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    Sherri wrote: »
    JJ wrote: »
    I would appreciate you not passive aggressively implying that I am a gold buyer/duper. It's not hard to make 100m's of gold if you're over level 1k as long as you can figure out the market and know how to save. From what I've heard, selling gachas/reforges can also make a lot of gold. Why would Nexon want to not support the people paying them?
    That aside, what is your argument against this idea other than "it will affect other people but not me"?
    Out of interest, could you tell me where you got your information about a lot of the rich being gold buyers, etc?

    Sigh.. I can't believe that people still think that everyone has the irl $ to burn on gacha -_-

    As long as there are jobs added, wages being paid, economic growth, people will have money to burn... yes, even on gacha.
  • JJJJ
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,185
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    Greta wrote: »
    yNiBv8S.gif

    You should be selling that popcorn at a price we can all afford. I don't care that there's not enough to go around, everyone should get popcorn base on what they can personally pay.
    Responding to this in parts
    (1) Hmmm? Isn't that how markets work? It doesn't matter whether there are controls or not, when everything is in a free market, it's first come first serve. If there was a reliable player economy where players depended on each other to produce from in game materials that will allow the producing player to stick with the trade by supplying the market with items, that would create patrons who could commission ahead of time. That is the player economy I would like to see.

    (2) Using the same argument of having a more reliable and player dependent economy would decrease the need for individuals to grind all out themselves to get certain mats to craft high grade items to sell. Producers shouldn't have to slave over making something and then say, well, I'm going to charge at this extortion level price because I worked my butt off to make it. Take it or leave it.

    (3) I think if the monetary situation gets balanced, and there is economic growth, rather than hyperinflation and a flood of the money supply would allow for gradual increases of a bank cap.

    (1) I didn't realise this. I think I'm going to go buy a mansion before some millionaire gets it first.

    (2) If people are still buying the mats and they still are able to sell the product, what is the issue? (I apologise if I misunderstood you.)

    (3) How do you define a difference between hyperinflation and economic growth? As long as transactions are still happening I fail to see an issue (again, sorry if I misunderstood)..
    Sherri wrote: »
    Sigh.. I can't believe that people still think that everyone has the irl $ to burn on gacha -_-

    I have never once burned irl $ on gacha nor reforges and I'm doing just fine. It is naive to assume that is the only way to get gold. Just to be clear, I have never bought gold either. I make most of my gold through using the market.
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Faster to buy is kinda how auctions work.
    Well, faster to be the last bidder. (There's a better way to word that)
    I mean if both of these players had the same amount of buying power in the first place, wouldn't the faster one win in the end anyways?
    If A was selling for 1M, and B and C both had 1M to spend, wouldn't whoever got to A first be the one to get it?
    It's not the end of the world, the one left out now would just have to wait for another A to show up.
    Unless it's a problem of scarcity, which it usually is, in which case that's more a problem itself.

    Isn't the discussion we're having for situations when two people have different amounts of gold? If everyone is spending 1m and it's selling out right away then surely the price should be raised.

    But your "why bother" question isn't just a money thing.
    I mean, "why bother" running top-tier content if the only rewards is getting materials to make weapons to run the high-tier content you were already running, but this time marginally easier, except you already had what you wanted because you bought it in the first place?

    For many people, slowly getting stronger is the point of the game. If everyone could afford the end-game drops, there wouldn't be more people who get them, there is still the same limited number. Or maybe there would be less due to people have a lower incentive to sell them.

    It just feels like enabling the ability to throw even more money at something isn't the right way to go.
    If "an item is worth as much as someone is willing to buy it for" why not just take it another step and say "an item can only be as worth as much as someone is able to pay" when thinking in terms of gold storage restrictions. No matter whether the limit stays the same or increases, it's always going to come down to the person with more characters or otherwise more storage space, is going to have more spending/selling power.
    In which case another limit increase isn't really solving a larger issue, it's just bandaid solution that'd help out right now until the same issue came up, just later down the line this time.

    My argument exactly. Increasing the storage to 20m per character was only a bandaid solution, we now have the same issue again. Maybe the solution is to just not have a gold limit. But a gold limit does help the economy by forcing the rich to spend what they cannot store.

    After all, if someone wants to sell something for 2B gold, and let's say in this example that there were buyers out there that would pay that much for the item, but the seller wouldn't be able to hold that much themselves if they did sell it for that much, and no buyer, even if they wanted to, had enough space to hold that much gold, then will they just sit there saying "S> Item/2B" forever or will they eventually acquiesce to an actually attainable amount? (for this example replace my silly 2B example with another big number that isn't quite so ludicrous, yet still is too much for your bank/trade window to hold)
    I guess in the worst case it would lead to RMT, which is bad, but that's usually a case of the buyer not having the gold, or of gold not being sought after by the seller in the first place.

    If people can pay, why not sell at that price? I really fail to see this issue with rich people being able to buy better stuff.

    Though it feels more like it's the "100m has become to new 10m" that's the issue, rather than bank limits.
    And there's different things contributing to that.
    From unsatisfactory drop rates, to mission difficulty prohibiting accessibility (Elite Feth is a prime example) and thereby exacerbating the issues related to low drop rates, to just plain in accessibility in general (looking at Secret SMs, especially the ones that can drop Patterns for Erg Sacrifices the drop rates of passes to those are scary bad, for content-related examples and limited-time and/or gachapon-exclusive items as a paid example).
    It does all seem to loop back into the "why bother" part.
    Why bother running the same missions over and over to incrementally increase your ability to run the same missions over and over?

    If drop rates increased then 1) there would be less trading since more people would get it themselves, thus not helping the economy, and 2) a lot of people would have their income damaged from the prices dropping - it would ensure that being rich would be more limited to people selling things like reforges from the cash shop.

    Oh as a final thing, the "20m per character" gold limit is half-true isn't it?
    It's 20m per character up to your 10th character, then for every character after that, it's 10m, right?
    That's just why I keep saying 2B as my silly number, since it's basically (10 x 20m) + (190 x 10m) (Up to 300 characters on an account, up to 200 of which can be actual characters and the rest can only be pets)

    I'm aware of this, but for the purpose of simplicity I've omitted it.

    As for a suggestion in place of 100m/200m, how about making the 11th and onwards characters count their full 20m would be a start.
    Making Pets count towards the bank limit could help as well, making them give an additional 20m apiece like regular characters.
    That way if your account was totally filled with characters/pets it could hold up to 6B in gold just in the bank.

    This would be acceptable to me too, although it would mean that people who buy a lot of pets/characters would have an even bigger advantage. I have no problem with this, but I think others would.

    And with all those alts/pets that'd be plenty of space to store your checks.
    Check stacking would also be nice, though it would kind of trivialize any Check Size Limit by simply turning it into a "tedium of making 3x the checks as a Guardian Guild Member" limit. If that's worth consideration.

    Why the need for check stacking? What's wrong with being able to store all your gold in the bank?


  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Member
    Oh, I just included the check stacking thing because gold in banks can't be used for direct trades such as Player to Player "Request to Trade" things.
    If you wanted to trade using money that way, and very large amounts of money on that note, as it is now, even with the "Expand Window" option in the trade interface, wouldn't you run out of space quickly for some of the more exorbitantly priced items? Checks were originally for trading large amounts of gold after all, not for just storing it.

    Also some of the other things aren't fully concrete.
    Like the "If drop rates increased, then there would be less trading since more people would get it themselves thus not helping the economy".
    Holy Water's an example of this, it's easy to get, and accessible to literally anyone yet there's always been a Market for it.
    And income being damaged by price drops isn't a wholly bad thing in perspective, since apparently players are already making too much to even hold.
    Albeit I'm sure if literally everyone on the server was doing every NPC's HW-giving jobs EVERY day there'd be too much to use, but that's never happened in NA Mabi ever. And never will.
    Though on the other end, if everyone DID decide to drop what they were doing and all rush to do NPC PTJs for HW all at once, there's a literal per-NPC per-channel Job limit as a definitive cap, so even my example couldn't be one of those "to infinity" problems.

    Because there will always be people who don't want to do things that drop something they want, there will be a market for it, no matter the drop rate.
    You could replace HW with almost anything, and it'd just be a matter of scale. Poison Herbs, Falias Fragments, Apostle Drops, Dragon Hearts.
    An issue would only arrive if the items became undesireable, because a useless item isn't going to sell. Not a huge market for stuff like Small Gems or Branches is there?
    I doubt that'd happen with things like Misty Red Gems, or Kraken Hearts, at least until the next power creep of equipment happens.

    Also higher price limits aren't really "Letting rich people buy better stuff than others".
    Because what player isn't going to want the current "Best-in-Slot" if they had a choice?
    That's literally just "Letting rich people buy the same stuff, but for higher amounts."
    And that's going to just force prices higher unless the next big thing comes along, or something happens that makes it more accessible. (See Demonics pre-Saga and post-Saga)
    Bank Limits being what they could be acting as a sort of last line of defense against infinite inflation.

    One of the most important things to players is indeed Progression.
    Progression is being limited by both a lack of supply AND high prices.
    But, they're linked to each other and both heavily related to abysmal drop rates and lack of desire to actually trudge through end-game content.
    And those problems are bigger issues than a gold limit less than 1% of players are going to hit!
    Habimaru
  • MiliardoMiliardo
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,170
    Posts: 67
    Member
    edited September 7, 2019
    I'll throw my own thoughts based on observations of the changing markets starting from G2 onwards:

    Hyperinflation is not due to gold farmers, gold farmers can't make the amount of gold that a certain crowd does because they do not develop characters enough to match this crowd. It is also not the resellers who can make tons of money, but whose profits are limited by the gold circulating in the economy. The culprit is also not the amount of money given by the increasing missions rewards, though that does help it along. No, the real problem is a group of individuals who have been playing this game for a very long time and flooding the economy with newly minted currency by underhanded means. The group I refer to of course is a specific part of the taboo modding community. Multi-boxers, and botters. These people can bring in entire parties of alt accounts, and as a result collect up to 8x the rewards. Worse yet many of them have been doing it for years and never been caught. And some of them even continue to boast about it. In-fact I know one of them who even streams it. I watched him do an entire dungeon with a bunch of bots and brag that he had never been caught.

    Of course there are other factors helping this along. One big example is the server merge. The server merge caused rare hard to obtain items to go up in value with all the new demand, while common more easily obtained items dropped with the flood of new stock.

    Do I think increasing the gold limit will help affect the inflation in any significant way and help the cheaters? No, they have more than enough alt banks to fill. Do I think anyone but gold buyers, gacha sellers, and market manipulators will benefit much from the change? Possibly, but I would need to see some concrete data on the potential earnings of a veteran player using methods easily available to all end-game players in a reasonable time frame (accounting for work/school hours) that does not involve more advanced strategies like market exploitation (reselling goods) otherwise it's all just speculation. I personally do not believe the wealth of the average player* does not typically go over 100mil which is about how much you would be able to bank using all free character cards. But I believe this is because most people don't hold onto gold for long. Do I believe we need a bank limit increase? Yes, the average wealth of the player HAS increased and trying to hamper inflation by keeping the current limit is like putting a bandaid on a gaping axe wound. The only real solution would be cracking down on multi-boxing and botters. To further that idea lets take a look at a very popular game that also has had similar problems with it's economy; Runescape. Runescape once tried to combat bots who were influencing the market by imposing a trade limit. This trade limit severely restricted the amount of gold one could trade with another player. All this accomplished was annoying the player base and changing the botters methods. It was highly ineffective, which is why they later removed the trade limit completely. Also note that the trade restriction was before the introduction of bonds(trade-able game time tokens) so it was more about pleasing players by getting rid of bots and making the market more fair to rule abiding players.

    *note: This is an assumption based on the talks i've had with many other veterans in various but limited guilds I've had contact with. I do not claim to have any concrete data on the average player wealth as it is all my own speculation so take that particular statement with a grain of salt.
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