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Splashing Potions and Cleric Magic

ChoCho
Mabinogi Rep: 2,120
Posts: 244
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edited November 15, 2019 in Feedback and Suggestions
I've read some manga about MMOs where players can splash potions on other players and it will restore their HP/MP, cure them of poison etc. This would be a good skill for the Apothecary talent. You would be able to splash HP, MP, Stamina, Hybrid (HP + MP, HP + Stamina, etc) Antidote potions on players, Marionette potions on marionettes, and Poison potions on enemies. You can use the skill after equipping a potion.

Below: Player with Rank 1 Potion Splash, equipped with an HP 300, using the skill on another player.
nFWFa3Y.jpg

The idea is at rank F it can heal players for 50% of the effect of the potion and by rank 1, it can heal for 80% of the potion. I think 80% effectiveness would be fair so throwing HP potions doesn't replace the Heal skill. An example would be:

Rank F 50% of potion effectiveness
Rank 9 60% of potion effectiveness
Rank 5 70% of potion effectiveness
Rank 1 80% of potion effectiveness

It can give Int and Dex like the other potion skills but it would be nice to have more skills that give Will.

Also for the Cleric talent, it would be nice if there was a complimentary skill to give Mana to other players. If the skill to restore your own mana is Inspiration, the skill to transfer mana can be Motivation. It can be like Life Drain but with mana instead. It would load and when you use the skill, it would start draining your mana to give it to another player. You could cancel it early with the ESC key and at rank 1 it could give up to 75% of your Mana with a moderate cooldown. (maybe 1 minute)

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Comments

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Like how pet elephants splash snot onto others for status bonuses?
  • SherriSherri
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    Ooooh I like these ideas a lot! Cleric and Apothecary do need some more love too. :D
  • SqueeSquee
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    Personally, I'd prefer it in the form of a restoration spell. Maybe like a party version of the inspiration skill that restores all your stats by a certain amount as a sort of advanced party healing type spell. Splashing potions on people sounds like a waste of potions. A party version of Inspiration that can restore all your party's health, stamina and MP by a certain amount or even amp stats if your party is at full health.
    Kensamaofmari
  • GretaGreta
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    Since splashing HP will be pointless because we have healing, i think i could use this skill to splash them with poison for the best reaction.
  • NegumikoNegumiko
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    what about making it into a alchemy skill? attach a potion to a cylinder and when you use Rain Casting it heals anyone under the cloud.
    Sherri
  • ChoCho
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    edited November 25, 2019
    Negumiko wrote: »
    what about making it into a alchemy skill? attach a potion to a cylinder and when you use Rain Casting it heals anyone under the cloud.
    I thought about that but I want more ways for Life skillers to be an active part of dungeon/Shadow missions. Like with cooking, before catering, it was harder to give the whole party food buffs. Making a campfire and getting everyone to sit but also making their characters become bloated for small buff. But now chefs can pre-prep STR/DEX/INT food in advance for runs.

    Forcing a player to go into alchemy to use their potions on others would be no different than telling them to pick up a healer wand or making a weaver learn archery. I want players to have the option to use their potions directly.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
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    Modify the suggestion a bit and I would give it some approval. Normal potion use comes from drinking it after all. You wouldn't want to get it all over the floor in case you make your own party member slip on the puddle. And the ladies also probably wouldn't want to get their dresses ruined (yes, yes, I know, why is she dungeoning in a dress).

    I like the idea of potions being able to have regenerative effects that aren't limited to elixirs. Instead of splashing, would you be willing to come up with a modified idea that turns it into a mist or converts it into vapour form, such as how hydra/Cerberus emits poison, and thus breathing in the gas-form of potions adds to the hp/mp/stam/etc.?

    It also doesn't seem like a bad idea to me to be able to Rain-Cloud those potions (considering how common potions now are and the fact that Alchemy was left behind in many a way). Such a skill would probably be part of the hidden talent tab. Although people might want all of that to also extend to buff-potions.

    Currently, poison bottles can be applied to weapons, but maybe it would be interesting for potions if they could be applied to defensive gear for temporary regenerative effects. I am also reminded of the sword-spiked armour from Dragon Quest IV which had a similar effect to Barrier Spikes when you got attacked (but I seem to be digressing now).
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Greta wrote: »
    Since splashing HP will be pointless because we have healing, i think i could use this skill to splash them with poison for the best reaction.

    I think it will be useful for people at lower levels.
  • ChoCho
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    Rain Casting the potions seems good from a combat POV but feels like a reward for alchemists more than for life skill players. Throwing potions, in my opinion would be a reward for potion makers as alchemists and healers wouldn't see a point to ranking the skill and pot makers wouldn't feel the need to dip into alchemy if they didn't want to. A potion maker who's not concerned with increasing their INT and Magic Attack would still be able to contribute in runs, especially those high level runs that drop items to rank First Aid or runs with rare crafting materials.

    Also, alchemy has a lot of support/utility but none of the skills directly affect others outside of rain cast just by nature of rain. Rain itself buffs water cannon and production but every other skill is some kind of crowd control affecting monsters. (Blind, Freeze, Mega knockback, Slow via Life Drain, Obstructing barriers, Stunning Cloud, Taunting Golem etc.) Healing would be out of place.

    A skill that heals others over a wide range would be good for Bards and Clerics but Bards already have Enduring that gives mana/stamina, Fantastic that gives mana/stamina/health, and magic scores that can stack over both of those that give mana/stamina/health. Clerics have party heal and if they could restore stamina, it would break them because players would be able to heal themselves at the cost of only mana before getting party heal unless it's implemented in a way that a healer couldn't use it on themselves or in battle due to a long cast time like Party Heal.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Currently, poison bottles can be applied to weapons, but maybe it would be interesting for potions if they could be applied to defensive gear for temporary regenerative effects. I am also reminded of the sword-spiked armour from Dragon Quest IV which had a similar effect to Barrier Spikes when you got attacked (but I seem to be digressing now).

    I like this idea. I don't think I ever used sword-spiked in DQ but poison on armor could work like the Pokemon ability Poison Point.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
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    I am still a bit skeptical of the logic that Life-Skillers are supposed to be «Combat-Oriented» party-members. Life-Skills aren't exactly renowned for being attuned to Combat. Splashing those concoctions is one thing, with its potentially eye-brow-raising etiquette and all, but, for throwing the potion itself, I think it would be more suitable as a kind of a Rock-Throwing skill, perhaps useful for keeping those Guards alive in Missions like Tailteann Defensive-Battle, depending on how hot-key-ing and targeting would work out (because we know that targeting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do when trying to heal an NPC that is moving around constantly).

    Much of the game has, how-ever, become imbalanced in such a way that a huge percentage of the skill-sets and even talents have largely become obsolete, and it would most-certainly be a good idea to get things re-balanced properly without simultaneously nerfing Milletians into oblivion (like they did to Summon Golem after a while after said skill came out; nobody uses golems any more unless they're doing it solely for skill-ups or to waste time intentionally given that we're now able to punch things harder with our fists these days than the amount of damage that even our Rank 1 golems can dish out).

    If I were to think up some way to expand the potion-making skill, I would probably just add more potion-making recipes, but that was apparently already done in the form of the extra potions that can be made beyond the HP/MP/Stamina-potions. I think they were (mostly if not all) related to Production-Skill Potions. For a more Combat-Oriented idea of Potion-Making Expansion, certainly, the Def/Prot/Magic-Boost/etc., would be sensible, most of which I've only obtained from Events (but as you mentioned, Cooks are able to make food that lets everyone Boost their Stats, Bards have Regenerative-Songs, etc.).

    If anything, considering what I have responded with thus far, I might consider the idea of Potions that could be applied to Weapons/Gear, similarly to how Milletians may get Temporary Stats-Boosts from eating Food, Magical Buff-Potions could act something like Temporary Stat-Boosting Food and/or Ointment for the Weapons, such as Temporary Damage-Attack Boost, Magic-Attack Boost, etc (whether limited to Spirit-Weapons or there being special rules for Spirit-Weapons to benefit from it is another topic in of itself), but «Balancing» things might be rather difficult at this point given how the skill-sets, bonuses, potentials, perks, etc., enchant-options, reforge-options, Echo-Stones, etc., etc., all of which seem to be rather all over the place and the game's development seeming to lack any specific direction (for now anyway).

    Here are some more thoughts : Potions to Affect Enchant-Scrolls. Potions to Affect Echo-Stones. Potions to Affect Pet-Gear. Potions to Affect Partner-Equipment (e.g.: Maids/Butlers). Potions to Affect Magic-Powders. Potions to Affect Elite-Passes. Potions to Affect Tailoring Ingredients. Potions to Affect Synthesis-Ingredients. Potions to Affect Alban Training Stones. Potions to Affect Goddess Wings. Potions to Affect Arrows/Bolts/Javelins. Potions to Affect Fishing Success. I am sure you can come up with plenty of incredibly creative ways to render the Potion-Making skill much more rewarding for those who choose to pursue Potion-Making Grand-Mastery.
    Cho wrote: »
    Throwing potions, in my opinion would be a reward for potion makers as alchemists and healers wouldn't see a point to ranking the skill and pot makers wouldn't feel the need to dip into alchemy if they didn't want to. A potion maker who's not concerned with increasing their INT and Magic Attack would still be able to contribute in runs, especially those high level runs that drop items to rank First Aid or runs with rare crafting materials.
  • ChoCho
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    edited November 26, 2019
    Yeah I think adding more recipes is a good idea. They could add the elixirs that buff HP/MP/Stam or Def/Prot that you find in dead end dungeon chests. As you listed at the bottom, there are a bunch of different things potions could affect but in regards to the potion splashing/throwing, it's a common thing I see in isekai manga. Some characters will splash a potion on their allies to heal them mid-battle for reduced effectiveness (since they're not drinking it) or they'll quickly pour it on a fallen ally to recover some of their health because there's no time to force feed or perform first aid. I know some games use it as well, for example:

    Team Kirby Clash has a doctor/cleric class that heals it's allies by throwing potions on the ground which then make a healing field that allies can walk in to heal themselves. This seems a bit too strong because in Kirby Clash, the cleric IS the potion maker and heals through science. Mabi has separate Potion making/ Healer mage skills.

    Monster Hunter seems to have recovery ammo for the Bowgun which heals allies when you shoot them. You have to prepare this in advance similar to potion making while the Hunting Horn which heals allies more similarly to a Cleric with Party Heal.

    Dota 2 has healing salves which can be used on allies. (This might not be an effective item in the meta of the game but I'm just talking about the concept of using potions on allies in other games)

    Ragnarok Online has the a class called Alchemist (ironically), which is a potion making/golem summoning class that has a skill called "Aid potion" which throws potions as I'm describing.

    The Physician in Dragon Nest throws poison potions.

    What would be important to me would be that Healing magic and potion splashing be kept distinct from one another For example, if Potion Splashing was implemented, throwing a 1000 HP potion would be a higher, single-target, burst heal than Healing yet Party Heal will always be better AoE Burst heal. Healing magic also would cost less materials in the long term yet for a potion maker, gathering materials is normal so they aren't going out of their way. Potions might cost less to make than repairing a Healing wand but the INT investment in making Healing magic strong is also useful in Bolt magic (and Int/Adv magic with the Healing Staves) so Healers have a way to defend themselves that potion makers might not. I'm thinking of things like this.

    Almost forgot to add that the idea of making it a skill rather than a rock throw-type action would be for players to earn the effectiveness of throwing the potions (from 50% to 80%) as well as encouraging mass production of potions to rank the skill and giving apothecary another skill. It could work as an action that gives 80% effective from the start but that feels plain and unrewarding to me.