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Elf-Archery is FAR too «RNG-Dependent» !

HabimaruHabimaru
Mabinogi Rep: 2,920
Posts: 667
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edited April 27 in General Chat
Try passing Magnum-Shot Dan 3 Test when you don't live right next to the servers and the speeds of cable-Internet are not available to you. This test makes me want to pull my hair out or some sort of metaphorical-expression like that... this Dan-Test really needs to make Vision-of-Ladeca an available option otherwise it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get the required 12K+ points needed for those like me with such «bad luck» because the «RNG Gods» hate me and literally MAKES me FAIL even my «Enchants» with a DOZEN freaking HUGE FAILURES in a ROW despite my Enchant-Rank being at r1 ! (Even on Thursdays with Divine Magic-Powders)

Seriously... Vision-of-Ladeca needed to be a Elf-Passive starting starting from Level 1 rather than a L100+ active. It's a rather «useless» skill-set (or at least slow-as-molasses and older talents) otherwise to the point where I'd rather use a Human-Character for Archery if I were to even bother using that skill-set at all. Vision-of-Ladeca also doesn't carry over between channels if one decides to Channel-Hop
  1. Did your Elf pass its Dan 3 Test...?12 votes
    1. Yes (but only after over 1000x attempts despite living right next to the servers)
       0% (0 votes)
    2. Yes (but only after over 1000x attempts because I do not live anywhere near the servers)
       0% (0 votes)
    3. Yes (and in under 1000x but of course I did live right next to the servers)
       0% (0 votes)
    4. Yes (and in under 1000x despite not living anywhere near the servers)
       25% (3 votes)
    5. No (not even after 1000x attempts despite living right next to the servers)
       8% (1 vote)
    6. No (not even after 1000x attempts but of course I do not live anywhere near the servers)
       17% (2 votes)
    7. No (but not yet at 1000x attempts and it may not be relevant but I do live near the servers)
       0% (0 votes)
    8. No (but not yet at 1000 attempts although it is probably relevant that I am nowhere near the server)
       33% (4 votes)
    9. I got more than one or even more than a few elves who Dan-Test; Nobody is more Hard-Core than I ! =O
       17% (2 votes)

Comments

  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
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    It is as it is...Mag shot reign supreme in KR, they won't fix this.
    PolicromaLiberate
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,330
    Posts: 476
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    Dan Test suck... end of story...
    courtneyyBlissfulkillRadiant DawnPolicromaCrimsọnLiberate
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,735
    Posts: 3,740
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    edited April 28
    The other day I saw an elf go p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, and they were hitting almost every time. What's the point of the aimer/percentage thing if it has no meaning?
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,920
    Posts: 667
    Member
    That only happens when Vision-of-Ladeca is activated. When it's on cool-down they'd be going : miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss...
    Helsa wrote: »
    The other day I saw an elf go p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, and they were hitting almost every time. What's the point of the aimer/percentage thing if it has no meaning?
  • courtneyycourtneyy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,990
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    Member
    Yeah, I hate the way dan tests were changed during the 'revamp'. It wasn't much of a revamp imo, just a downgrade. Sure, the way it was before was annoying too, had to wait for enough people to join to take test (which seldom happened before the merge) , but now it's all RNG related. I tried over and over again to pass the dan 3 on my 40k level elf, and after 4095804584 attempts and 3094834435350948348 gold lost... I am just done with it.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,735
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    Habimaru wrote: »
    That only happens when Vision-of-Ladeca is activated. When it's on cool-down they'd be going : miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss...
    Helsa wrote: »
    The other day I saw an elf go p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, and they were hitting almost every time. What's the point of the aimer/percentage thing if it has no meaning?

    How long is it active and what's the cool down, because the elf I saw, was machine-gun potting whole squads of monsters, in short order over a period of about 10 minutes.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,920
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    They stopped after around 10m because that's its approximate duration (my experience). The reset-time is at 06h00 Erinn-clock.
    If it was activated right at 06h00, and runs out 10m later, you have a full 26m (Earth-time) to wait until next available re-activation.
    I probably won't bother with even trying to re-attempt Mag3 any more until I Dan 3 all of the other skills that I can Dan 3.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    That only happens when Vision-of-Ladeca is activated. When it's on cool-down they'd be going : miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss...
    Helsa wrote: »
    The other day I saw an elf go p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, p'toik, and they were hitting almost every time. What's the point of the aimer/percentage thing if it has no meaning?

    How long is it active and what's the cool down, because the elf I saw, was machine-gun potting whole squads of monsters, in short order over a period of about 10 minutes.
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,360
    Posts: 438
    Member
    CAN WE JUST REMOVE THE AIM MECHANIC IN FINAL SHOT

    it saddens me every time i need to load a skill then must aim (and sometimes still manage to miss) to shoot
    AlshianWolfsingerRadiant DawnCrimsọnHabimaruChaosShadow
  • LutetiumLutetium
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,230
    Posts: 232
    Member
    The solution to archery being garbage on NA is to play a Giant, as they do not have archery and the developers don't care about problems outside of KR that involve gameplay and not the cash shop.
  • NemesisNemesis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,615
    Posts: 72
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    Or play human with dblade and bash everything
    Crimsọn
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
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    edited April 30
    The test was painful, but you'll eventually pass it. Some pass it quicker than others, and even though the test was designed to keep us pesky elves from getting too powerful, elves have a much easier time than humans. (I would NOT want to do this test as a human in Mabi, but there are some who have pulled it off.) What I did back in the day was I took note of the points and time I got at each phase of the test if I did it perfectly. If I was significantly below those points at each step, I started over. It wasn't worth getting the "failpass". (Which really was a BS thing, IMO...) I didn't try pushing my luck until I got to the rats, which were worth the most points if you can get that far. Yes, it cost a fair amount of gold, but this was clearly designed to be a gold sink.

    Also, try to take note of what aggros each monster as you go through the dan. Avoiding aggro has always (IMO) been the key to archery in Mabi. Although it's not absolute, you'll get a rough idea of which ones will and won't attack you in a given situation. Also, mix in some crash shots, especially for dealing with the sahagins. You won't get points for them, but they help reduce the overall amount of HP you have to deal with without drawing more aggro than you can handle.

    Also worth noting: The distance between you and the server is not the only possible issue. Just make sure you have a decently snappy computer. It doesn't have to be a beast, but a non-gaming laptop might mean that fraction of a second between pass and fail. (I found my older desktop had an easier time getting higher scores than a 1st gen Surface, even though at the time the Surface was newer.) Use either a wired internet connection or 5GHz to prevent interference.
  • KagaKaga
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    Glad I don't elf archer.
  • ChaosShadowChaosShadow
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,325
    Posts: 133
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    edited May 3
    Archery is hardly useless without Vision of Ladeca. It just requires more patience, and your post tells me that you do not seem to have much of that if you're going to be making a demand as ridiculous as allowing the skill to be active at level 1. Humans probably wouldn't care since their Ladeca skill is pretty much worthless, but Giants would be seething with a salty rage that I wouldn't blame them for, as I'm sure they would love to have Might of Ladeca active at level 1.

    Getting to level 100 in order to gain access the skill is not a difficult task anymore. Run a few shadow missions, like Shadow Wiz HM or Battle for Tail II HM with Refined Shadow Crystals, to level 60, then run Nowhere to Run on Basic difficulty, and boom, level 100. Vision of Ladeca is now available for use.

    Like I said before though, you don't need Vision of Ladeca to use archery effectively in most situations. You just need to be patient, and if you can't do that, then archery is not a talent for you. With that said though, I will say that taking the patient approach with archery while Vision is on cooldown is definitely not practical when running content in parties, or in certain situations altogether (Tech Missions and Phantasm too, to an extent).

    Regarding the dan test though, I do agree 100% that Magnum Shot's test is complete garbage. I live on the east coast and eventually succeeded at it when I decided to play some music outside of Mabi on a whim. Obviously, playing music is not what caused me to succeed, but at the time it certainly felt like that's what happened. It did not take me thousands of attempts though. As Policroma said, it's definitely a gold sink, as I know I spent at least one or two million on it, but I would say it was worth every attempt.

    The test may not be impossible for most people, but I shudder to think how awful it might be for EU players... That said, if there is any advice I can offer for the test, I suggest attempting it on Sundays. Sunday's daily bonus increases your critical rate, and in Magnum's test, you're going to need every critical shot you can get. Also, do not be afraid to miss. Make good use of Urgent Shot if it means you can shoot that annoying Sahagin or Ratman that much sooner.

    Good luck to you. You're going to need it with how the AI loves to randomly change things up sometimes.

    Also...
    Hazurah wrote: »
    CAN WE JUST REMOVE THE AIM MECHANIC IN FINAL SHOT

    it saddens me every time i need to load a skill then must aim (and sometimes still manage to miss) to shoot

    Give us this and add "No dura loss" like how the human final memers have, please. I would be 100% okay with just getting these two things and no damage boost like the one that Final Meme Hit has.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,920
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    edited May 3
    Archery is hardly useless without Vision of Ladeca.
    Of course it's not....provided that you're referring to human-archery.
    It just requires more patience, and your post tells me that you do not seem to have much of that if you're going to be making a demand as ridiculous as allowing the skill to be active at level 1. Humans probably wouldn't care since their Ladeca skill is pretty much worthless, but Giants would be seething with a salty rage that I wouldn't blame them for, as I'm sure they would love to have Might of Ladeca active at level 1.
    The topic is not about Humans or Giants, and there is a fine line between Patience, Free-Time, and Time-Sinking (time-wasting).
    In this case, it's a complete waste of time, and there have already been plenty of other threads/posts on this where I have already stated quite clearly that the point and purpose of using a «ranged» weapon was to attack from a distance, and not to be forced to run up point-blank just to not miss 95% of the time unless I wanted to spend an hour or two each day waiting for the aim-timer to reach 100%.
    Getting to level 100 in order to gain access the skill is not a difficult task anymore. Run a few shadow missions, like Shadow Wiz HM or Battle for Tail II HM with Refined Shadow Crystals, to level 60, then run Nowhere to Run on Basic difficulty, and boom, level 100. Vision of Ladeca is now available for use.
    I never claimed it was difficult, how-ever, this is just yet another «time-sink» and messes up with the «hot-keys» set-up each R-B.
    Like I said before though, you don't need Vision of Ladeca to use archery effectively in most situations. You just need to be patient, and if you can't do that, then archery is not a talent for you. With that said though, I will say that taking the patient approach with archery while Vision is on cooldown is definitely not practical when running content in parties, or in certain situations altogether (Tech Missions and Phantasm too, to an extent).
    There is a word that some people use in various game-communities called «META» (okay, this one is an acronym) and another called «build» ...a time used to exist when AP was extremely scarce and use to be THE most valuable «commodity» that could be obtained, and if that were still the case today, then putting AP into archery in order to take 10x the amount of time to aim just to scratch one target would be considered extremely inefficient when that AP could instead have been used for Chain-Blade where a whole entire room could be cleared in half that time... some of us do more than one quest/mission (and Saga-episode) and otherwise each day after all. Furthermore, you «contradict» yourself by saying «archery» is «effective» yet requires «patience» (translation into correct wording/description : waiting all day just to aim properly), for «effective» means efficient in today's terminology. I can be VERY «effective» with going MELEE-ELF mode, IF by «effective» you mean that I am timing my skills/abilities to block (Defense) every attack, counter-attack every smash, windmill-combo after landing assault-slash, etc., but it is FAR from efficient, and if I am expected to use Archery as an Elf with VoL on CD then that is no different than using a MELEE-ELF at the Black-Dragon; you're just going to gimp yourself and not get any Contribution-Points from the Raid whilst nearly every other skill-set is far more reliable at consistently and effectively gaining contribution-points.
    Regarding the dan test though, I do agree 100% that Magnum Shot's test is complete garbage. I live on the east coast and eventually succeeded at it when I decided to play some music outside of Mabi on a whim. Obviously, playing music is not what caused me to succeed, but at the time it certainly felt like that's what happened. It did not take me thousands of attempts though. As Policroma said, it's definitely a gold sink, as I know I spent at least one or two million on it, but I would say it was worth every attempt.
    Be that as it may, this particular Dan-Test has an artificially imbalanced difficulty, such to the point that nearly every other Dan 3 test is easier than the Magnum3-Test. I get fairly close with the Dan3-Test for Water-Cannon but even that test seems to have RNG-dependent elements (such as whether the spawns aggro upon you in such a manner as to interfere with your ability to deal with the regular spawns of Blinkers).
    The test may not be impossible for most people, but I shudder to think how awful it might be for EU players... That said, if there is any advice I can offer for the test, I suggest attempting it on Sundays. Sunday's daily bonus increases your critical rate, and in Magnum's test, you're going to need every critical shot you can get. Also, do not be afraid to miss. Make good use of Urgent Shot if it means you can shoot that annoying Sahagin or Ratman that much sooner.
    Sounds like this might apply to every difficult Dan3-Test then...today happens to be Sunday so we'll see how it goes (maybe)...
    Edit/Update : Nope... doesn't really make a difference when you're missing 10x in a ROW even at POINT-BLANK Range...
  • ChaosShadowChaosShadow
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    edited May 5
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Of course it's not....provided that you're referring to human-archery.

    I was not referring to human archery. With or without Vision of Ladeca, a trigger happy human archer will always pale in comparison to a patient elf archer.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    The topic is not about Humans or Giants, and there is a fine line between Patience, Free-Time, and Time-Sinking (time-wasting).
    In this case, it's a complete waste of time, and there have already been plenty of other threads/posts on this where I have already stated quite clearly that the point and purpose of using a «ranged» weapon was to attack from a distance, and not to be forced to run up point-blank just to not miss 95% of the time unless I wanted to spend an hour or two each day waiting for the aim-timer to reach 100%.

    I do not care if this topic is not about humans or giants. You are missing my point by casting what I said aside. You cannot make such a ridiculous request and expect it to go unnoticed by giants. As I said, such a change would be irrelevant to humans, but Giants would be understandably angry and you don't seem to understand why.

    Yes, you are correct, the point of ranged weapon is to use it from a distance, and you can do that... if. you. are. patient. Which, again, you are clearly not given your gross exaggerations of how long it takes for archery's aim meter to reach 100%. If you are patient, and you are just hurting for time because you do not have enough of it, then that is not the game's problem, that is yours. You have to make do with the time you have, and if playing archery the patient way is not fast enough for you, then pick a different talent. Elves are not as limited to what they can do now as they were years ago.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I never claimed it was difficult, how-ever, this is just yet another «time-sink» and messes up with the «hot-keys» set-up each R-B.

    Spending an hour or potentially less of your time in the spoiled version of Mabi that we live in today is hardly a time sink. Try ranking support shot back when Talents and Destinies did not exist, then we'll talk about what a time sink is.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    There is a word that some people use in various game-communities called «META» (okay, this one is an acronym) and another called «build» ...a time used to exist when AP was extremely scarce and use to be THE most valuable «commodity» that could be obtained, and if that were still the case today, then putting AP into archery in order to take 10x the amount of time to aim just to scratch one target would be considered extremely inefficient when that AP could instead have been used for Chain-Blade where a whole entire room could be cleared in half that time... some of us do more than one quest/mission (and Saga-episode) and otherwise each day after all. Furthermore, you «contradict» yourself by saying «archery» is «effective» yet requires «patience» (translation into correct wording/description : waiting all day just to aim properly), for «effective» means efficient in today's terminology. I can be VERY «effective» with going MELEE-ELF mode, IF by «effective» you mean that I am timing my skills/abilities to block (Defense) every attack, counter-attack every smash, windmill-combo after landing assault-slash, etc., but it is FAR from efficient, and if I am expected to use Archery as an Elf with VoL on CD then that is no different than using a MELEE-ELF at the Black-Dragon; you're just going to gimp yourself and not get any Contribution-Points from the Raid whilst nearly every other skill-set is far more reliable at consistently and effectively gaining contribution-points.

    Chasing the meta is stupid and only sours the experience of the game unnecessarily for yourself. You do not need to be the most efficient player ever to get through most of the game's content, and content like Black Dragon is not necessary for anything anyway. Why waste time on it when you are so concerned about avoiding time sinks? Oh, because of two low-rate dragon material drops that you might get and make a decent amount of gold off of? Please.

    Being effective is most certainly not the same as being efficient. I was not contradicting myself in the slightest. Being effective means that what you are doing is working while being efficient means that you are doing something well. So, the point I was making is that you do not need Vision of Ladeca to use archery in a way that works in most situations.

    Additionally, if you had fully read what I said, you would have seen that I am keenly aware of archery's lack of efficiency compared to other talents without aim speed bonuses. I explicitly stated that the patient approach of archery is not practical when running content in parties or in certain content altogether. Of course, I am only saying that it is not practical, but I won't lie and say that using archery without aim speed bonuses in such scenarios would be efficient because it obviously wouldn't be when you consider other talent options, as you pointed out.

    If you want an example of a difference between efficiency and effectiveness, then I will provide you one with how my solo Phantasm experience ended- Overall, it was not a great run by any means. It took me six hours in total. When I got to the Succubus Queen, I attempted to be fast and aggressive with mounted crystal deer archery. This meant activating Vision of Ladeca when I could along with hiding and unhiding to take shots as often as I could. This resulted in me being punished by the Queen heavily via Sweet Illusion. Multiple times. The fight ended up taking me four and a half hours, but only in the last thirty minutes did I finally realize that if I were to stay just far enough away from the Queen and slow my shots down- in other words, PATIENTLY take my shots at her- then I could avoid being in the range of her attacks for the split second that she would aggro me before I was able to hide again. Once I realized that, I was completely safe from her attacks. I started playing effectively, and stopped playing like what the stupid meta deems "efficiently." Trying to be "efficient" nearly cost me my run. It was only when I realized my mistakes, slowed down, and attacked from a farther distance that I was able to defeat her.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Be that as it may, this particular Dan-Test has an artificially imbalanced difficulty, such to the point that nearly every other Dan 3 test is easier than the Magnum3-Test. I get fairly close with the Dan3-Test for Water-Cannon but even that test seems to have RNG-dependent elements (such as whether the spawns aggro upon you in such a manner as to interfere with your ability to deal with the regular spawns of Blinkers).

    I hope you realize that I was in agreement with you on this. I hate the Magnum Shot test and never plan on doing it again. I was simply sharing my experience with it and saying that for as frustrating as it is, it is worth obtaining Dan 3 Magnum shot at least once.

    I have not danned my Water Cannon, so I cannot comment on its dan test.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Sounds like this might apply to every difficult Dan3-Test then...today happens to be Sunday so we'll see how it goes (maybe)...
    Edit/Update : Nope... doesn't really make a difference when you're missing 10x in a ROW even at POINT-BLANK Range...

    Take everything you can get. The extra critical rate will certainly help when you land your hits, and you need to remember to make use of Urgent Shot. I don't know what percent you're firing at, but if I recall correctly, I often fired at around 60~70% and landed my hits often enough.

    That all said... I have stated my points, and my point of view is firm and unchanging. If you cannot sacrifice the time needed for archery, then it is simply not a talent for you. With that, I have a college exam I must be returning to. Good day.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,920
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    edited May 5
    Not so. Arrow-Revolver has a high enough and fast enough aim-rate to easily out-DPS any Elf who's not using VoL.
    I was not referring to human archery. With or without Vision of Ladeca, a trigger happy human archer will always pale in comparison to a patient elf archer.

    The recommendation is not «ridiculous» (considering that this is NA and not KR) and Giants are plenty strong from the very beginning with plenty of bonuses from the start (with very little if any in the way of having any «penalties» where-as elves have plenty of «penalties» from the very beginning not the least is the Dex-Reduction from wearing anything heavier than Clothing). The only «Giants» who I see doing any «complaining» seem to be most-likely the ones who don't like the direction of «end-game» content. Nobody complains about Giants getting buffs (I would not have any objections) and there have been numerous changes to Giants since their inception because the developers eventually wanted to encourage more people to play/use the Giant-race (they're actually pretty damn good from the get-go). I don't disagree that the Giant-Version of Final-Hit/Final-Shot (Final-Strike) could use a bit of a speed-boost, but, lore-wise, Giants have immense Strength and were designed for Survivability... historically, Humans were supposed to be somewhat of the «in-between» of Giant/Elf Strengths/Weaknesses. Currently, humans have the most Versatility as well as AoE-DPS-speed, where-as historically Giants were supposed to be the Hard-Hitters.
    I do not care if this topic is not about humans or giants. You are missing my point by casting what I said aside. You cannot make such a ridiculous request and expect it to go unnoticed by giants. As I said, such a change would be irrelevant to humans, but Giants would be understandably angry and you don't seem to understand why.

    Metaphoric-expressions and idioms and other such figures-of-speech aren't meant to be taken literally but to illustrate an example.
    Yes, you are correct, the point of ranged weapon is to use it from a distance, and you can do that... if. you. are. patient. Which, again, you are clearly not given your gross exaggerations of how long it takes for archery's aim meter to reach 100%. If you are patient, and you are just hurting for time because you do not have enough of it, then that is not the game's problem, that is yours. You have to make do with the time you have, and if playing archery the patient way is not fast enough for you, then pick a different talent. Elves are not as limited to what they can do now as they were years ago.

    Lots of people were just called stupid. Some people farm mats to use rather than direct-selling. No comment otherwise.
    Chasing the meta is stupid and only sours the experience of the game unnecessarily for yourself. You do not need to be the most efficient player ever to get through most of the game's content, and content like Black Dragon is not necessary for anything anyway. Why waste time on it when you are so concerned about avoiding time sinks? Oh, because of two low-rate dragon material drops that you might get and make a decent amount of gold off of? Please.

    We'll get back to this point further down...
    Being effective is most certainly not the same as being efficient. I was not contradicting myself in the slightest. Being effective means that what you are doing is working while being efficient means that you are doing something well. So, the point I was making is that you do not need Vision of Ladeca to use archery in a way that works in most situations.

    [Difficult] Missions/Dungeons without some sort of «timer» tend to be more of an exception rather than the «rule» with the direction of how things have turned out. Having lots of time to do things is more of a luxury in the newer content, but things used to be a lot more «balanced» when those 20-minute-timer missions used to actually require everyone's best-efforts at holding the fort down before becoming the «joke» that they are today (e.g.: Tailteann Defensive Battle, Rescue the Scout, etc). I used to go about leisurely taking my time clearing «hard» content (back when it used to be difficult) despite being at such a «low» total-level, because I most certainly had the «patience» to do so, but it's not that I cannot spend the time being «patient» to wait-and-wait-and-wait for the Aim-Meter to reach a percentage that will actually hit consistently (and there are already numerous examples where I have referenced that the «RNG» and/or «RNG-gods» hate me, always making any worthwhile enchant fail near 100% of the time, and even making my Archery «miss» over 50% of the time if the aim-meter is anything below 100% when VoL is not active), and there are/was even others who've used Elves (and both other races) all the way to «End-Game» who've mentioned that Elves don't really have anything they «Excel» at (unless you are apparently on the KR-server/s).

    Sure, I could go about using VoL for the 10-minute duration that it stays active, then simply wait another 26 minutes until it can be re-activated again (or how-ever long it takes for it to reach 6am Erinn-Time depending on when it was activated previously), which would certainly simulate more closely the dungeon-crawls that used to be the norm (nobody «crawls» through content any more... apparently it is more like speed-rush), but that only time I can «justify» that now is when running truly difficult content (such as Phantasm/Mirror or equivalent). For nearly all other content
    Additionally, if you had fully read what I said, you would have seen that I am keenly aware of archery's lack of efficiency compared to other talents without aim speed bonuses. I explicitly stated that the patient approach of archery is not practical when running content in parties or in certain content altogether. Of course, I am only saying that it is not practical, but I won't lie and say that using archery without aim speed bonuses in such scenarios would be efficient because it obviously wouldn't be when you consider other talent options, as you pointed out.

    If you want an example of a difference between efficiency and effectiveness, then I will provide you one with how my solo Phantasm experience ended- Overall, it was not a great run by any means. It took me six hours in total. When I got to the Succubus Queen, I attempted to be fast and aggressive with mounted crystal deer archery. This meant activating Vision of Ladeca when I could along with hiding and unhiding to take shots as often as I could. This resulted in me being punished by the Queen heavily via Sweet Illusion. Multiple times. The fight ended up taking me four and a half hours, but only in the last thirty minutes did I finally realize that if I were to stay just far enough away from the Queen and slow my shots down- in other words, PATIENTLY take my shots at her- then I could avoid being in the range of her attacks for the split second that she would aggro me before I was able to hide again. Once I realized that, I was completely safe from her attacks. I started playing effectively, and stopped playing like what the stupid meta deems "efficiently." Trying to be "efficient" nearly cost me my run. It was only when I realized my mistakes, slowed down, and attacked from a farther distance that I was able to defeat her.

    Noted. I wasn't claiming disagreement on this one.
    I hope you realize that I was in agreement with you on this. I hate the Magnum Shot test and never plan on doing it again. I was simply sharing my experience with it and saying that for as frustrating as it is, it is worth obtaining Dan 3 Magnum shot at least once.

    Words apparently aren't going to be able to show/display/convey my frustrations until I show video-proof/evidence that my miss-rate is still near-100% if I fire at any percentage below 93% even when near-point-blank range and, for that matter, starting the aim-rate at 0% when at point-blank range is rather silly. I have never seen an elf miss so many shots even at point-blank-range in any other medium (movies, TV, other video-games, etc) until I tried to use one to attempt to clear a High-Ranking Dan-Test. Maybe it requires actually RB-ing into the Archery Talent & Testing on Sunday to even stand a Chance at getting enough Points...
    Take everything you can get. The extra critical rate will certainly help when you land your hits, and you need to remember to make use of Urgent Shot. I don't know what percent you're firing at, but if I recall correctly, I often fired at around 60~70% and landed my hits often enough.

    I already have enough «frustrations» that I had been forced to deal with over my life-time. I simply see no «use» (for me) for Elven-Archery when Vision goes on Cool-Downs. For now it remains as something to eventually «Max» just for the sake of skilling up as far as it can go...
    That all said... I have stated my points, and my point of view is firm and unchanging. If you cannot sacrifice the time needed for archery, then it is simply not a talent for you. With that, I have a college exam I must be returning to. Good day.
    ...sort of like why I might be trying to «Max» out my Squire-stats (partly so I can have them «carry» me in some Baltane-Elites [to an extent]).
    ThlrBn3.png
    P.S./Edit/Addendum : [Other than a correction to quoting]...actually, I already posted it in another thread, but I do already tend to have a semi-regular routine of mostly doing the fastest Adventurer-Seals Quest-Dailies, thus I may tend to look at things in a «productivity» perspective. More done in less time = productive (one of the reasons I don't bother with Archery without Vision-of-Ladeca).
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 61,390
    Posts: 7,928
    Member
    Hazurah wrote: »
    CAN WE JUST REMOVE THE AIM MECHANIC IN FINAL SHOT

    it saddens me every time i need to load a skill then must aim (and sometimes still manage to miss) to shoot

    Yeah like it gets to 100% and...you still miss. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF's!
    HelsaHazurah