Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the Crom Bás Part 2 update!
https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/71292/crom-b-s-unveiled-abyss-part-2-patch-notes-january-13th-2022
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It's been a long time

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  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I need to come back to this since there is still apparently some misunderstandings, but I will accept fault for it as I did get a bit «lazy» with my «lolsweep» reference, rather than actually getting in-depth into what I mean about strategic; I don't reference «Strategic» solely in terms of having only 3-4 skills to pseudo-RPS with, but the fact that we're not really required to do much «timing» with our skills any more, due to fights now being more about «spamming» whatever your highest-damage attack/skill just happens to be;

    Sure, they have Girgashies which require «timing» but have «pigeon-holed» it into a specific three-combo skill-set, rather than say updating «Defense» into one where if everyone was equipped with a Shield, and they all loaded Defense together with their Shields in proximity (similar to Fusion-Bolt), or even the Magic-Shields from the Magic-Tab, then a special-effect could be created from it (e.g.: whole entire PT loaded Defense could cause in impenetrable Dome-Shield to manifest and as long as PT-members remain within said dome for its duration they take no damage [or at least significantly reduced] from any physical-attack, and another version for Magic-Attacks, and another Hybrid-Version, etc).

    And yes, the Boss of Sidhe sometimes requires you to get out of the way, lest you be hit with a gigantic explosion and have your movements slowed, which I think is at least alright to help make the battle a bit more interesting, but attacking it is still mostly about just spamming whatever your «highest DPS» particular available skill is for the duration of the majority of the battle.

    Also, lots of the newer-content spawns have plenty of high-grade prot/def, and in thinking about how I was going to respond, I remembered that I am a fairly big fan of debuffs; in fact, for most games I have ever been active on where debuffs exist, I will usually stack as absolutely many «debuffs» as I can on whatever I happen to be fighting, and there is a browser-game where the «EX-Abilities» that I set for all of my Party-Configurations is usually always going to be a Defense-Debuff. Currently, there is not much in the way of «debuffing» beyond Brionac, and just plain «Piercing» weapons. With «debuffs» being introduced (beyond Brionac) it might bring an incentive to those Veteran-dungeons (although probably not since most-likely people will more-likely use it for raid-spamming and periodically for spamming AAHM or other such dungeons).

    Anyway, they could still introduce a «timing» factor, and I think it is good and healthy for combat-mechanics (as well as interesting) to allow for there to be some form of telegraphing what the opponent is about to do so that you can prepare your next most-effective move in anticipation. How so ? I have my own ideas, although I am not going to get too detailed (describing/explaining and typing this stuff out takes time after all), they could design the «mobs» in such a way or at least add in a «weak-point» where, with an indicator to help players «telegraph» when to «time» a particular skill (or sequence of skills), similar to those Nightmares changing colours, a brief icon with a 321 count-down could display next to (or above) the «mob» and leave a 2-3 second window for specified skill (or specific element-type attack) that not only guarantees a «critical» attack but simultaneously lands various status-debuffs.

    Yes, I know there are similar things that occasionally trigger with certain spirit-weapon configurations, but those are dependent upon Proc-Percentages, and not so much about the «timing» of when you used your particular skill against any particular target in question.

    Anyway... this probably warrants creating a thread eventually titled something like...: «What does "Strategy" mean to you ?»
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    -snip- (regarding battle-system, end-game, etc)
    Helsa wrote: »

    That's the nature of combat PvE games from the get-go. At the end-of-game, in all games, the tactical approach to combat is much more limited than at the beginning. In the beginning, cleverness and patience make a difference, in the end it's all just about power; of course that's boring.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    When the «combat-system» was «revamped» they definitely should have designed it to maintain some sort of strategic mechanics that would have perhaps delved upon the pseudo-rock-paper-scissors style combat-system to where the more-difficult opponents would have had even more pseudo-rock-paper-scissors style counter-measures where the counter-skills were multi-layered instead of simply...

    Yes, the current combat-system will get «boring» for many people after a while, namely because the result is just turning targets into what are essentially «punching bags» and not so much doing any interesting form of combat or doing choreograph-style combat-sequences

    This is part of the issue I have with the game/community in general. End game is far more interesting because you have all the tools in a set to fix a problem, instead of looking at a broken sink and going "I have some gum, a bent fork and some half used tape" you have a full professional way to fix it. Both are really fun and have all their own perks, but lets not pretend that the game is more complex when you don't have half the skills in the game. As far as old mabi combat goes no, it wasn't more strategic because anything that wasn't windmill was basically garbage. Old mabi combat was bad, is bad, and is outdated. The Pserver is a perfect example, it's super super dead even though people constantly go on about how much better old mabi was. End game is much more mechanically intense, between elite techs and hasidim but it loses its charm when you feel like you're grinding for no reward.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I think there is a misunderstanding here... combat-system changed from being strategic to being focused too much on lol1shoteverything with lolsweep, creating an extreme imbalance amongst the skill-sets (when things get that «imbalanced» ...everyone ends up being forced to use pretty much the same techniques/strategies in the end).

    There definitely is a misunderstanding here because chain sweep isn't a very good skill in the end. It has a resource management tied to it, it's an animation lock, and it's super slow, compare that to the almost 0 CD kunai storm on an ego 100 erg 50 shuri, it's not even a comparison to make the ninja skill set blows chain out of the water. Between KS spam, instant load sakura abyss and crits resetting the CD of the skills... Even magic with all the issues it has is the best skillset for clearing alban heroic SS. I feel like a lot of misunderstanding comes from people not understanding what the meta is. Again, it's not a bad thing either most people don't care and that's fine but it makes having conversations about game state impossible. Even alchemy though it requires erg45 ego100 at the bare minimum is an insane and one of the only reliable ways to clear feth fiada elite, and probably the best way to clear most of kraken.

    Edit: got off topic, not the point of this thread. Anyway the game feels dated regardless and hasn't been fun for a while and we're not getting anything to do for at least 8 months, and the power creep from gacha stuff lately has been insane.

    I'm not trying to be dismissive but if people on these forums actively did any of this content, most of this discussion wouldn't be held.

    as for new mobs yeah that's part of why the game feels stale. Remember when only bosses had heavy stander and other similar skills? Now every single mob is basically Immune to all forms of cc, has all 3 stander+ skills and 3,000,000 hp. Vet dungeons are one of the biggest disgraces the games ever faced it's not new content, it's old content with 200x hp that gives a single gem as a reward.
    GretaRadiant Dawn
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 720
    Member
    This is pretty much the same with any activity. People who say that they're going to do this and that in order to «make lots of money» never actually get around to actually doing it; People who talk about all of their «great plans» about what they are going to do pretty much spend all of their time talking about their great plans rather than actually implementing their ideas, and yes, I am probably guilty of this, too, to an extend, due to how often I have frequented these forums and reading and posting on these forums when I still got plenty of «paper-work» I should probably be focusing more of my «time» on instead... well at least this being pointed out will be some form of «motivation» for me to re-examine my «priorities» and maybe limit my forum-use to only certain times of the day/week/etc., from here onwards... what is called «productivity» in business (and many other aspects of life) waits for no-one after all.
    Harukari wrote: »
    I've learned that people who say they are leaving a game, leave for a few months and come right back.
    Those who say nothing and just leave, stay gone.
    But cya later.
    Game is lame now.

    Even though I badly want to leave, I can't bring myself to completely uninstall the game, I just lurk around and see if something interesting happens, and well, that's going great....
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
    Posts: 8,689
    Member
    edited May 3, 2020
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Crims wrote: »
    Ok see you in a few months to a year. This thread is not going to sway the staff. Bye.

    What staff? The leftover maplestory 2 staff, or the staff that was fired/quit/replaced? There's not a whole lot to sway. But no, I've constantly been trying to get back into the game after breaks and every time I do it's been shorter.

    THEN GO, and don't come back.

    Harukari wrote: »
    I've learned that people who say they are leaving a game, leave for a few months and come right back.
    Those who say nothing and just leave, stay gone.

    But cya later.
    Game is lame now.

    Even though I badly want to leave, I can't bring myself to completely uninstall the game, I just lurk around and see if something interesting happens, and well, that's going great....

    THIS.

    You know we hate these threads. These reactions are warranted. If I leave this game I will tell my friends in-game and that's it. No stupid good bye threads or whining about bleep we already know. It's pathetic and annoying.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 49,315
    Posts: 6,955
    Member
    Crims wrote: »
    Harukari wrote: »
    I've learned that people who say they are leaving a game, leave for a few months and come right back.
    Those who say nothing and just leave, stay gone.

    But cya later.
    Game is lame now.

    Even though I badly want to leave, I can't bring myself to completely uninstall the game, I just lurk around and see if something interesting happens, and well, that's going great....

    THIS.

    You know we hate these threads. These reactions are warranted. If I leave this game I will tell my friends in-game and that's it. No stupid good bye threads or whining about bleep we already know. It's pathetic and annoying.

    Who "we"? The only people who seemed hostile and hateful in this thread was Dragool (or whatever his name is) and you. I'm starting to sympathasize with people who leave, especially with Alexina folks because of how crappy our situation has become.
    Negumiko
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
    Posts: 8,689
    Member
    Harukari wrote: »
    I've learned that people who say they are leaving a game, leave for a few months and come right back.
    Those who say nothing and just leave, stay gone.

    But cya later.
    Game is lame now.

    Even though I badly want to leave, I can't bring myself to completely uninstall the game, I just lurk around and see if something interesting happens, and well, that's going great....
    Greta wrote: »
    Crims wrote: »
    Harukari wrote: »
    I've learned that people who say they are leaving a game, leave for a few months and come right back.
    Those who say nothing and just leave, stay gone.

    But cya later.
    Game is lame now.

    Even though I badly want to leave, I can't bring myself to completely uninstall the game, I just lurk around and see if something interesting happens, and well, that's going great....

    THIS.

    You know we hate these threads. These reactions are warranted. If I leave this game I will tell my friends in-game and that's it. No stupid good bye threads or whining about bleep we already know. It's pathetic and annoying.

    Who "we"? The only people who seemed hostile and hateful in this thread was Dragool (or whatever his name is) and you. I'm starting to sympathasize with people who leave, especially with Alexina folks because of how crappy our situation has become.

    Fine, you're not included. Feel better? No? Don't care.
  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,770
    Posts: 443
    Member
    edited May 3, 2020
    Crims wrote: »
    Fine, you're not included. Feel better? No? Don't care.

    Cared enough to reply, lol... what was that about silence speaking louder than saying you're doing (or not doing) something? Yikes, talk about inconsistency.

    Typical Crims.

    Aside from that, I don't understand the whole idea that if you're truly gonna leave you'd say nothing. At least in my personal experience, people saying they're leaving meant they were leaving. And we've seen popular names around here disappear when they said they would. Y'all onto some low-key gaslighting... probably with a hint of denial. Seriously! There's like, 4 more stages of grief afterwards! Pick a new one!

    Greta
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 20,825
    Posts: 4,532
    Member
    i-m-taking-my-ball-and-going-home.jpg
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 720
    Member
    So be it. I find it strange that you mention that there is actually more «strategy» now, and that «end-game» is now «more interesting» compared to «old-school» end-game (I might agree with this to an extent), yet, you also simultaneously say that the game is also «outdated» (the now version of Mabinogi), etc. Back in the day, when people reached «end-game» ...they often went about spending their time helping a lot of newer players. This was especially true of the Royal-Alchemists (and I'm pretty sure it was more than for the Royal Alchemist-Points... I noticed that it was simply part of their nature).

    Can't form a sufficient group to do/run Kraken with...? Maybe or maybe you haven't noticed but there have been a semi-steady influx/flow of newer Milletians joining the population (assuming that they're not just someone's «alt» character which seems to me like a rather unnecessary use of time-sinking unless for the sake of becoming familiar with the other two races). For that matter, not too long ago (literally earlier this morning), I over-heard (read) a conversation where someone needed help with their G1 final, due to what they say that they weren't strong enough for it, and other Milletian was glad to help out. It used to be a common-place thing that everybody wanted to scramble to help out with someone else's «Generation-Final» (probably because the rewards from helping with completing the mission were also quite significant) and it was a «must-do» thing where people would drop what they were doing just to «get in» on that Generation-insert-#-here-Final when someone had it available, and I'm pretty sure that this was an excellent formula to grow/keep a decent-sized player-base.

    Now ? Who knows what happened... I think the biggest factor, besides the «bankster-thieves» ruining the world-economies, has to do with most-likely that they had stopped advertising consistently for Mabinogi. Although I am not going to dig up my post right now I did post a few months ago about how extremely important it was to maintain consistent advertising for your product/service, and not «rely» solely on «word-of-mouth» advertising (effective as it is) because even social-circles are not infinite, and not «advertising» consistently will result in an eventual «stagnation» of the customer-base/player-base/community population, etc., and all groups/organisations/etc., do have an «attrition-rate» (this is normal), which is typically especially high for on-line groups/communities/organisations/etc., to which that «attrition-rate» must be counter-acted. Anyway, not going to re-post all of it here, for you can just do a search-term for the word «attrition» (probably) and find that post yourself, from which point I did notice a gradual be steady re-increase in server-activity.

    Over-all, regardless of why you say that you're leaving/quitting, you've literally described the game as being «better» than before (much better for that matter), even with the existence of those seemingly impossible spawns/monsters with 200K+ HP & all manners of immunities. There is an easy solution to that... help everyone else get to «end-game» then group yourselves up together in a Squad-Sized PT and DPS the shiznitz out of those monsters...
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I need to come back to this since there is still apparently some misunderstandings, but I will accept fault for it as I did get a bit «lazy» with my «lolsweep» reference, rather than actually getting in-depth into what I mean about strategic; I don't reference «Strategic» solely in terms of having only 3-4 skills to pseudo-RPS with, but the fact that we're not really required to do much «timing» with our skills any more, due to fights now being more about «spamming» whatever your highest-damage attack/skill just happens to be;

    Sure, they have Girgashies which require «timing» but have «pigeon-holed» it into a specific three-combo skill-set, rather than say updating «Defense» into one where if everyone was equipped with a Shield, and they all loaded Defense together with their Shields in proximity (similar to Fusion-Bolt), or even the Magic-Shields from the Magic-Tab, then a special-effect could be created from it (e.g.: whole entire PT loaded Defense could cause in impenetrable Dome-Shield to manifest and as long as PT-members remain within said dome for its duration they take no damage [or at least significantly reduced] from any physical-attack, and another version for Magic-Attacks, and another Hybrid-Version, etc).

    And yes, the Boss of Sidhe sometimes requires you to get out of the way, lest you be hit with a gigantic explosion and have your movements slowed, which I think is at least alright to help make the battle a bit more interesting, but attacking it is still mostly about just spamming whatever your «highest DPS» particular available skill is for the duration of the majority of the battle.

    Also, lots of the newer-content spawns have plenty of high-grade prot/def, and in thinking about how I was going to respond, I remembered that I am a fairly big fan of debuffs; in fact, for most games I have ever been active on where debuffs exist, I will usually stack as absolutely many «debuffs» as I can on whatever I happen to be fighting, and there is a browser-game where the «EX-Abilities» that I set for all of my Party-Configurations is usually always going to be a Defense-Debuff. Currently, there is not much in the way of «debuffing» beyond Brionac, and just plain «Piercing» weapons. With «debuffs» being introduced (beyond Brionac) it might bring an incentive to those Veteran-dungeons (although probably not since most-likely people will more-likely use it for raid-spamming and periodically for spamming AAHM or other such dungeons).

    Anyway, they could still introduce a «timing» factor, and I think it is good and healthy for combat-mechanics (as well as interesting) to allow for there to be some form of telegraphing what the opponent is about to do so that you can prepare your next most-effective move in anticipation. How so ? I have my own ideas, although I am not going to get too detailed (describing/explaining and typing this stuff out takes time after all), they could design the «mobs» in such a way or at least add in a «weak-point» where, with an indicator to help players «telegraph» when to «time» a particular skill (or sequence of skills), similar to those Nightmares changing colours, a brief icon with a 321 count-down could display next to (or above) the «mob» and leave a 2-3 second window for specified skill (or specific element-type attack) that not only guarantees a «critical» attack but simultaneously lands various status-debuffs.

    Yes, I know there are similar things that occasionally trigger with certain spirit-weapon configurations, but those are dependent upon Proc-Percentages, and not so much about the «timing» of when you used your particular skill against any particular target in question.

    Anyway... this probably warrants creating a thread eventually titled something like...: «What does "Strategy" mean to you ?»
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    -snip- (regarding battle-system, end-game, etc)
    Helsa wrote: »

    That's the nature of combat PvE games from the get-go. At the end-of-game, in all games, the tactical approach to combat is much more limited than at the beginning. In the beginning, cleverness and patience make a difference, in the end it's all just about power; of course that's boring.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    When the «combat-system» was «revamped» they definitely should have designed it to maintain some sort of strategic mechanics that would have perhaps delved upon the pseudo-rock-paper-scissors style combat-system to where the more-difficult opponents would have had even more pseudo-rock-paper-scissors style counter-measures where the counter-skills were multi-layered instead of simply...

    Yes, the current combat-system will get «boring» for many people after a while, namely because the result is just turning targets into what are essentially «punching bags» and not so much doing any interesting form of combat or doing choreograph-style combat-sequences

    This is part of the issue I have with the game/community in general. End game is far more interesting because you have all the tools in a set to fix a problem, instead of looking at a broken sink and going "I have some gum, a bent fork and some half used tape" you have a full professional way to fix it. Both are really fun and have all their own perks, but lets not pretend that the game is more complex when you don't have half the skills in the game. As far as old mabi combat goes no, it wasn't more strategic because anything that wasn't windmill was basically garbage. Old mabi combat was bad, is bad, and is outdated. The Pserver is a perfect example, it's super super dead even though people constantly go on about how much better old mabi was. End game is much more mechanically intense, between elite techs and hasidim but it loses its charm when you feel like you're grinding for no reward.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I think there is a misunderstanding here... combat-system changed from being strategic to being focused too much on lol1shoteverything with lolsweep, creating an extreme imbalance amongst the skill-sets (when things get that «imbalanced» ...everyone ends up being forced to use pretty much the same techniques/strategies in the end).

    There definitely is a misunderstanding here because chain sweep isn't a very good skill in the end. It has a resource management tied to it, it's an animation lock, and it's super slow, compare that to the almost 0 CD kunai storm on an ego 100 erg 50 shuri, it's not even a comparison to make the ninja skill set blows chain out of the water. Between KS spam, instant load sakura abyss and crits resetting the CD of the skills... Even magic with all the issues it has is the best skillset for clearing alban heroic SS. I feel like a lot of misunderstanding comes from people not understanding what the meta is. Again, it's not a bad thing either most people don't care and that's fine but it makes having conversations about game state impossible. Even alchemy though it requires erg45 ego100 at the bare minimum is an insane and one of the only reliable ways to clear feth fiada elite, and probably the best way to clear most of kraken.

    Edit: got off topic, not the point of this thread. Anyway the game feels dated regardless and hasn't been fun for a while and we're not getting anything to do for at least 8 months, and the power creep from gacha stuff lately has been insane.
    I'm not trying to be dismissive but if people on these forums actively did any of this content, most of this discussion wouldn't be held.

    as for new mobs yeah that's part of why the game feels stale. Remember when only bosses had heavy stander and other similar skills? Now every single mob is basically Immune to all forms of cc, has all 3 stander+ skills and 3,000,000 hp. Vet dungeons are one of the biggest disgraces the games ever faced it's not new content, it's old content with 200x hp that gives a single gem as a reward.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Crims wrote: »

    THIS.

    You know we hate these threads. These reactions are warranted. If I leave this game I will tell my friends in-game and that's it. No stupid good bye threads or whining about bleep we already know. It's pathetic and annoying.
    87d2cdb43a65d73bd15e89f32e44befa.png
    Harold2.png

    I missed you too
    Habimaru wrote: »
    So be it. I find it strange that you mention that there is actually more «strategy» now, and that «end-game» is now «more interesting» compared to «old-school» end-game (I might agree with this to an extent), yet, you also simultaneously say that the game is also «outdated»
    Better doesn't = good though, keep in mind. I do think it's better than it ever has been, but it's still not good.
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Aside from that, I don't understand the whole idea that if you're truly gonna leave you'd say nothing. At least in my personal experience, people saying they're leaving meant they were leaving. And we've seen popular names around here disappear when they said they would. Y'all onto some low-key gaslighting... probably with a hint of denial. Seriously! There's like, 4 more stages of grief afterwards! Pick a new one!

    I said I was done with the forums aside from complaining about vip 2 years ago and that's it. *shrug* usually when people say they're leaving they're doing it to give themselves some sort of closure on something personally important to them.
    GretaSebastian
  • HarukariHarukari
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,120
    Posts: 826
    Member
    edited May 3, 2020
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Aside from that, I don't understand the whole idea that if you're truly gonna leave you'd say nothing. At least in my personal experience, people saying they're leaving meant they were leaving. And we've seen popular names around here disappear when they said they would. Y'all onto some low-key gaslighting... probably with a hint of denial. Seriously! There's like, 4 more stages of grief afterwards! Pick a new one!

    Because I've seen it happen multiple times in different game communities. I had a friend who left without saying a thing, and never returned, and I still haven't spoken to them ever since. I'm not saying it's 100% true, but it usually seems to be the case.

    But I guess I never put into thought that game communities can differ from each other til now. So I apologize.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
    Posts: 8,689
    Member
    edited May 3, 2020
    Leaving the forums does not mean leaving the game. That was when Katherz randomly flipped her bleep and started handing out warnings with no recourse (bad day at work I guess). Greta and a number of others can attest to that situation back in September of 2018. It's why we have moderation guidelines today.

    Also I was not the only one who did that and we did that to make a statement because originally the write ups in these forums would not expire or would not be removed. Meaning you would eventually and potentially very quickly get banned from the forums, especially if some moody mod was having a bad day. Which is bs. Warnings were being handed out for over-quoting which she deemed as derailing (which is why I caution about the over-quoting guys. You guys do it a lot lol). There were number of other things, miscommunications and comments being misconstrued. It was becoming chaos and we were getting PISSED.

    We went on strike basically. We mainly communicated in a private thread. Eventually Katherz created a dialog with us and created those guidelines to follow. This gave EVERYONE a little more clarity. No more "power tripping". No more inconsistencies. (You're welcome btw and thanks again to Katherz).

    But you are one little player. You posting this thread trying to create some kind of emotional pool is not going to work. It's not going to make things change. It requires the cooperation of much more people. And that's not gonna happen either. A lot of us know that at some point this game will go down because they won't change the business model. They are not allowed to. When the ship goes down we will all be there holding hands and singing kumbaya.

    HA! Nope we will be raging and advertising private servers. XD

    If we were to do anything like what we did here in the forums and did that with the game. They would just shut this game down (sooner). lol. So, no comparison there dude.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 720
    Member
    edited May 3, 2020
    If there were such a thing as an on-line game you consider «good» you'd be too busy reaching its end-game to even bother making a thread like this one;

    Not only that, I find it strange that you'd have stuck around for so long originally back when Mabinogi was «much worse» than what it is now, despite you claiming that what it is now is some-how still terrible, not to mention the fact that not everybody who has posted in/on these forums would be in agreement, for I have seen posts by others who've mentioned that Mabinogi is THE «Best» game in existence right now (more than once, mind you, and from more than one poster, assuming that they're not using bunches of alts for forum-posts), and even in the Tech-Support section I remember reading posts from people who wanted help being able to get Mabinogi working so that they could play their «favourite» game;

    ...then there is also that tenet that «history repeats itself» and various employers also strongly believe in using history to predict future-performance, and if Nexon/DevCAT has indeed made the game «better» (much better) even by your «standards» ...then I don't really see the logic in claiming that everything is dead and/or dying and/or in decline when by the very evidence itself and even in your own opinion of from where the game was to where the game is now it sounds like... they are at least doing something right to continue making things better (much better) than before... even in light of that «funny history» where fixing one thing used to break a dozen other things (but I think it was «continued faith» from sufficient members of the community and/or influential members of the community who must have been enough of a motivation for [certain/dedicated] Nexon/DevCAT-staff to keep going in spite of the trials and tribulations potentially experienced).

    I have always said from the very beginning that I don't care how many mistakes someone makes so long as they continue to put forth the effort towards improving and are still willing to try again until they succeed... I have far more «respect» for those types of people than the ones who easily give up at the first sign of any sort of difficulty who act like some worthwhile objective can «never» be accomplished.
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    So be it. I find it strange that you mention that there is actually more «strategy» now, and that «end-game» is now «more interesting» compared to «old-school» end-game (I might agree with this to an extent), yet, you also simultaneously say that the game is also «outdated»
    Better doesn't = good though, keep in mind. I do think it's better than it ever has been, but it's still not good.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
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    Crims wrote: »
    -.
    yeah I know, I was there, and in that thread too. Just pushing buttons like the good ol' days.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    If there were such a thing as an on-line game you consider «good» you'd be too busy reaching its end-game to even bother making a thread like this one;
    It's funny you mention that because I'm only looking at the forums while I wait in queue for spvp in gw2, almost plat now so here we go, or I'm waiting on events/ah flips.

    And let me rephrase this too, as I feel I've created confusion.

    Mabinogi is an amazing game. The systems, how skills work, quests, the fact that you can do and be anything you want and the game supports it. There's life skills that are all unique and most of them fun, you signature things that are exceptionally awesome too leaving your mark on the game forever. Mabinogi has so many unique and wonderful game systems and environment too. The art is unique and although the game engine is a pile of crap, it still works pretty well. The combat be it old or new is also unique from other mmos. The whole idea of a rebirth system instead of normal leveling is fantastic, and I really think the only other game that has skills that even come close to mabinogi is runescape.

    That being said...
    Life skills are ruined for the most part because of gachas, or npcs just straight selling things better than you can make (Potion making)
    Most crafting is RNG based for expensive items (Lmao @ min roll dblade)
    Most life skills are useless outside of boosting stats due to poor implementation or power creep (alchemy, crystal making, mana crystalization)
    Combat in general faces huge power creep everytime something new is added it just replaces something else essentially (Look at chains vs guns or even ninja vs guns)
    The P2W is atrocious, you can get there as a free player but you're looking at a massive dedication and grind, and while most of your damage is from stats/skill ranks and not gear/reforges it's a simple fact that you aren't competing unless you have all the above.
    The servers are so awful that all the uniqueness of combat is dead, you can't use guns most of the time because you'll get so displaced you end up breaking the game

    The list goes on and on, however the idea of what mabinogi is in a vacuum is so incredible and different from other mmos that the fact that it's even attempted is incredible enough to have a cult following and people who won't forget it ever. If there was ever an mmo that just took all of mabi's systems and rebalanced it, took out the p2w, and have servers not run off a hamster wheel and a lemon battery it'd be a huge success. I'd even wager if a game came out that was just mabinogi but fixed, this game would die almost immediately minus the few whales caught with sunk cost fallacy.
  • SaiSai
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    If you do quit and end up coming back some time in the future. I'll still be here, even if everyone else disappears. Be sure to say hi to me.

    GretaRadiant Dawn
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
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    I don't have a problem running the game at all, but the servers had some oopies in the recent past.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
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    Sai wrote: »
    If you do quit and end up coming back some time in the future. I'll still be here, even if everyone else disappears. Be sure to say hi to me.

    Aye, that I will. I'm waiting for the elf rework to come out in KR, and I'll decide if I want to stick around at all after that. If it's good depending on how good I might play again.
    Alshian wrote: »
    I don't have a problem running the game at all, but the servers had some oopies in the recent past.

    Ever do a guild battle? Legit 5-15 fps at most
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,920
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    Honestly I am worried this game is going to survive this year.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
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    edited May 4, 2020
    Crims wrote: »
    Honestly I am worried this game is going to survive this year.

    I say this to myself a lot but, Mabinogi still exist in US for now x.x

    Also I forgot Guild battlefields exist, hardly feel a need to do it.

    But if its as large scale as full 16 player raid with Girgashiy or Zebach, I won't lose as much frames as some of you did.
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,620
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    edited May 4, 2020
    Funny you say background-noise. I almost never actually play mabi for mabi, it's just for homestead chat and as reference to make characters to run around as in haloPC. HaloPC's the easiest game ever to make and rig bipeds for

    And for background noise. xD friends visit my sad AFK character in my homestead and play music next to it

    That said, it probably doesn't count as 'returned' if you don't actually play the game or maintain a presence of any kind while logged in. Nobody would know you're online anyways
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
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    Alshian wrote: »
    Crims wrote: »
    Honestly I am worried this game is going to survive this year.

    I say this to myself a lot but, Mabinogi still exist in US for now x.x

    Also I forgot Guild battlefields exist, hardly feel a need to do it.

    But if its as large scale as full 16 player raid with Girgashiy or Zebach, I won't lose as much frames as some of you did.

    It's usually 60 players, at least 40 so triple that.
    Crims wrote: »
    Honestly I am worried this game is going to survive this year.

    If no new content to run comes out soon, I'm not sure how long things will last.