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Rework Base Damage on Skills (Magic/Alchemy/etc)

Comments

  • Pip-BoyPip-Boy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,750
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    The mdef peeling Technique requires you to be in Demigod which means 40k+ total level players have to give up their min maxed stats to use it. It's another unnecessary hurdle players have to jump through to attain the mediocrity of end game magic. You'd get much more putting the same amount of investment in something like elf archery.
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,955
    Posts: 172
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    edited October 9, 2020
    Pip-Boy wrote: »
    The mdef peeling Technique requires you to be in Demigod which means 40k+ total level players have to give up their min maxed stats to use it.

    Nah. You can rebirth without resetting levels, you know. Just won't get demigod exp you would get from leveling up if you had reset.
    It's another unnecessary hurdle players have to jump through to attain the mediocrity of end game magic. You'd get much more putting the same amount of investment in something like elf archery.

    I agree, but for a different reason. Nonetheless, I do agree.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
    Posts: 1,230
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    edited October 12, 2020
    Kinda dying inside knowing magic is going to be pretty amazing only because of this tech, but also knowing if I am going to get that good with magic, Id have to face head on with Nexon's abysmal rng with unlimited chance of "what if" to unlimited nothings.

    Meh wished I didn't spend money on this game from the past when I was younger, used to be good till its "questionable" additions caused it to make me pull my hair till I just give up. Enchanting and special upgrading used to be RNG inducing fear of failure because it be gone for good, but now the entirety of the game is now fear induced repeatability to square one. That is not very "Fun" but instead a chore, why does a game have to feel like a chore?

    That feeling of adrenaline when you finally beat a boss for the first time that also happens to drops that one item you need for crafting, "Good, Alright lets attempt this" -failure- "So I just realized that id need to fight this boss tons from all those failures as it becomes a daily ritual with my soul crushing, FUN" (Fun in a sarcastic way of course) Don't think this is what it means to have fun, maybe different for koreans maybe they find abysmal RNG fun but not me, so I gave up feeling like a failure as I head to dunbarton being a fashinogi realizing why not enough battlenogis are around, maybe its because they converted or quit the game, could also just be bored cooling off from what I already said anyone would be burnt having to repeat those.

    There is one thing I noticed in some games, they balance out what have RNG and what doesn't, you can have RNG drops but 100% crafting success or 100% drops but RNG crafting, instead Mabinogi have both...RNG drops as well as RNG crafting, for the sake of being a loop if lucky enough to break out of it. Heck some games even have both 100% chance of drops and crafting but only because the amount of items you need to craft is insanely high but at least your slowly reaching that goal compared to the chance of starting ALL the way over.
  • OrkaneOrkane
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,365
    Posts: 134
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    Something that's worth mentioning is that for a new player, the base damage on spells is basically lying to them. Rank 1 hailstorm has 300 max base damage and rank 1 lightning bolt has 150 max but if a new player comes in expecting lightning bolt to hit half as hard as hailstorm, they'd be sorely disappointed. Meanwhile, Blaze just says "explosion damage increase" as if people are meant to decide which skills they want based on that.
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,955
    Posts: 172
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    edited October 26, 2020
    Orkane wrote: »
    Something that's worth mentioning is that for a new player, the base damage on spells is basically lying to them. Rank 1 hailstorm has 300 max base damage and rank 1 lightning bolt has 150 max but if a new player comes in expecting lightning bolt to hit half as hard as hailstorm, they'd be sorely disappointed.
    I see the argument you're trying to make.
    That said, I think anyone with common sense wouldn't actually think a basic bolt spell would somehow be comparable to an advanced spell in direct proportion like that.
    If someone got curious and took initiative to go to the Wiki and find more info and asked around, they'd discover the magic damage formula that explains why the difference is so drastic: one of them is the "magic constant," a second would be "enchant modifier," and another would be "wand/staff modifier."

    Those three elements -- variables -- alone make a huge difference.
    Meanwhile, Blaze just says "explosion damage increase" as if people are meant to decide which skills they want based on that.

    That's another "common sense" thing. I don't think anyone wise would just take that at face value and just shrug, if they wanted to know what that's all about. A lot of your success and knowledge in the game is determined by your own desire to gain and retain information, you know. You don't see anyone complaining about the myriad number of other skills like Windmill -- for example -- that don't disclose the exact range of the attack. We have data in the Wiki delivered by some savvy code dwellers, accessible to any who simply knows how to type a keyword into a search box, tap the "Enter" key, and has a reading comprehension ability above Grade 6 and math skills above Grade 8.

    Don't get me wrong: more explicit detail is a good idea. But, the mystery of discovering how skills work is part of "playing the game."
  • OrkaneOrkane
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,365
    Posts: 134
    Member
    edited October 28, 2020
    Orkane wrote: »
    Something that's worth mentioning is that for a new player, the base damage on spells is basically lying to them. Rank 1 hailstorm has 300 max base damage and rank 1 lightning bolt has 150 max but if a new player comes in expecting lightning bolt to hit half as hard as hailstorm, they'd be sorely disappointed.
    I see the argument you're trying to make.
    That said, I think anyone with common sense wouldn't actually think a basic bolt spell would somehow be comparable to an advanced spell in direct proportion like that.
    If someone got curious and took initiative to go to the Wiki and find more info and asked around, they'd discover the magic damage formula that explains why the difference is so drastic: one of them is the "magic constant," a second would be "enchant modifier," and another would be "wand/staff modifier."

    Those three elements -- variables -- alone make a huge difference.

    To figure out that windmill is about 25% more powerful than assault slash at rank 1 takes me about 2 seconds. That's because melee damage works in a way that's simple, intuitive and scales well enough that they haven't had to revamp the damage of every melee skill twice already *cough magic*. There's no practical benefit to requiring a wiki to make decisions.

    Also, I've been focusing on magic, but alchemy's way stupider. Fire alchemy says it boost damage by 10% but it just doesn't. The damage it adds also isn't affected by critical damage because someone had the bright idea of applying it after the critical multiplier and it's extremely unobvious to the layperson what the difference between fire alchemy damage and fire alchemy efficiency is. And to make it worse, fire alchemy universally does bad damage because alchemy has bad damage scaling.
    That's another "common sense" thing. I don't think anyone wise would just take that at face value and just shrug, if they wanted to know what that's all about."

    My point isn't that it's difficult, my point is that it could be effortless as displayed by every other skillset. Which solves the scaling issues while making the damage scaling crystal clear. When a perfectly good solution exists and can be universally applied, why use anything worse?