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SoG: Real or 'Real'?

AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
Mabinogi Rep: 3,100
Posts: 278
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edited October 3 in General Chat
In case you have no idea what SoG is, here's an informative link: https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Solo_Battle_Tactics#Shot_of_God

Also, do you think it works exactly as described here, or do you think it's something different?
  1. Do you believe SoG is an actual thing?12 votes
    1. You can say there's no such thing as SoG; but as for me and Grandpa, we believe.
       42% (5 votes)
    2. I say there's no such thing as SoG.
       8% (1 vote)
    3. I believe it was a thing, but it's probably been patched out.
       17% (2 votes)
    4. I have an ER 18+ erg 50 Hunter+Huntress/Divine Crossbow, so I don't care.
       17% (2 votes)
    5. I don't use archery, so I don't care.
       0% (0 votes)
    6. I just don't care.
       17% (2 votes)
    7. I don't know, but I voted anyway. (maybe I should've added that to the 'I don't care' options...)
       0% (0 votes)

Comments

  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 61,350
    Posts: 7,911
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    edited October 3
    I only care if it's an obtainable skills that adds to my stats. Since it is not, I do not care.
    Radiant Dawn
  • justshowingjustshowing
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,840
    Posts: 150
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    as a dedicated archer on the western side. i say it's stupid an unreliable.
    Wolfsinger
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,165
    Posts: 76
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    On my human i can pull it off roughly 73.25% of the time. It is there; but the prescion required is quite high. Have yet to try it on elf.

    Either that, or i've been incredibly lucky for years.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,895
    Posts: 661
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    Not to be a party-crasher or anything, but, SoG doesn't actually exist (not in my «reality» anyway), and, even if it did exist, manifesting its so-called existence probably requires a minimum of a T1 Internet-speed connection anyway. Why place one's faith/fate/time/energy on something so unreliable and inconsistent ?

    And in the «debunking» world there are references to psychological-biases (like a normalcy bias for people who aren't cognizant of clandestine mass-social-engineering techniques), such that one remembers the hits but forgets the misses, related to a statistical-method of cooking-the-books called the file-drawer effect. For all we know, the people who swear by SoG, may simply be remembering all of the times when it seemingly «worked» for them but are conveniently forgetting when all of their «misses» render their statistical-bias as over-hyping an otherwise stastistically normal hit-rate.

    Anybody who wants to «statistically prove» the existence of SoG had better first be familiar with one of the world's top statisticians, Jessica Utts, and her work, and be able to use just as robust of statistics as she does to show me that the belief in SoG isn't just some normalcy bias or file-drawer effect remember-the-hits-but-forget-the-misses before I am going to take this idea of the existence of SoG as being something which will actually work for the average archer rather than being some sort of scam that those who «sell» their over-priced «courses» on SoG are trying to peddle unto the gullible public masses...
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,510
    Posts: 754
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    I've seen a lagless player pull it off repeatedly and consistently.

    We were hunting ancients in Iria and one of them dropped a crossbow, so this particular player picked it up and showed me how it works. They were able to kill mobs far into the distance that should have been way outside of the crossbow range.

    If someone claims to be able to do it but you doubt them, have them demonstrate the infinite range for you (and do it in Iria because the draw distance there is better than Uladh's).


    It's one of those things you actually have to see happening because a poor understanding of it might lead you to make uninformed rants about statistics and confirmation bias.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,895
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    «It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.» -Mark Twain

    I mean no offense but, considering how much latency your own connection gets, that example actually really sounds more like someone using «displacement» or knowingly using the knowledge of your not-so-lagless connection in order to make it look like they pulled off SoG on your screen (via displacement).

    Seeing may be believing, for some people, but doing is another matter altogether. Lots of people hear or see things on television, and, just because they saw it on television, they some-how thing it's real or factual or truthful, solely on the basis that it was «seen» on T.V.

    Anyway, most of the time, I won't even bother to use Bows unless Vision-of-Ladeca is available, and even that's only useful for 10 minutes out of 36.
  • Speddy54Speddy54
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 29
    Member
    I don't believe in it. I practice it anyways. I've even managed to pull off 1 or 2 significantly out of range shots on a stationary target that hasn't noticed me yet.

    The timing honestly lines up pretty well with acceptable aim percentages at close range. If I miss I'm going to follow up with urgent shot anyways.
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,510
    Posts: 754
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I mean no offense but, considering how much latency your own connection gets, that example actually really sounds more like someone using «displacement» or knowingly using the knowledge of your not-so-lagless connection in order to make it look like they pulled off SoG on your screen (via displacement).

    No, it wasn't displacement. Anyone familiar with bow ranges will know in an instant when you shoot something that's ridiculously out of range for any bow. We're not talking about things on the edge of the bow's range here.

  • justshowingjustshowing
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,840
    Posts: 150
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Not to be a party-crasher or anything, but, SoG doesn't actually exist (not in my «reality» anyway), and, even if it did exist, manifesting its so-called existence probably requires a minimum of a T1 Internet-speed connection anyway. Why place one's faith/fate/time/energy on something so unreliable and inconsistent ?

    And in the «debunking» world there are references to psychological-biases (like a normalcy bias for people who aren't cognizant of clandestine mass-social-engineering techniques), such that one remembers the hits but forgets the misses, related to a statistical-method of cooking-the-books called the file-drawer effect. For all we know, the people who swear by SoG, may simply be remembering all of the times when it seemingly «worked» for them but are conveniently forgetting when all of their «misses» render their statistical-bias as over-hyping an otherwise stastistically normal hit-rate.

    Anybody who wants to «statistically prove» the existence of SoG had better first be familiar with one of the world's top statisticians, Jessica Utts, and her work, and be able to use just as robust of statistics as she does to show me that the belief in SoG isn't just some normalcy bias or file-drawer effect remember-the-hits-but-forget-the-misses before I am going to take this idea of the existence of SoG as being something which will actually work for the average archer rather than being some sort of scam that those who «sell» their over-priced «courses» on SoG are trying to peddle unto the gullible public masses...

    Sigh.. yes you can hit your target at 0%
    But it's not an intended feature. It's a glitch.
    It's chasing the wind if anyone wants to find it more practical then a casino trick.

    Why anyone still wants to pursue it is hilarious at this point since the glitch was first discovered before the genesis update.

    Anyone would be better off with finest handmade arrows, or the new piercing arrows, even metallic arrows from jousting. Accept that the game has a few flaws and be thankful it's not worse.

    A patient Archer is better then a gambling archer.
  • justshowingjustshowing
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,840
    Posts: 150
    Member
    Eralea wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I mean no offense but, considering how much latency your own connection gets, that example actually really sounds more like someone using «displacement» or knowingly using the knowledge of your not-so-lagless connection in order to make it look like they pulled off SoG on your screen (via displacement).

    No, it wasn't displacement. Anyone familiar with bow ranges will know in an instant when you shoot something that's ridiculously out of range for any bow. We're not talking about things on the edge of the bow's range here.

    I can confirm displacement lag affects archers just as much as magic though.

    It's the reason why I don't use evasion while using archery.
    Sometimes using fighter skills or crisis escape helps auto correct the displacement lag.
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,440
    Posts: 652
    Member
    edited October 8
    I've done it multiple times. I can record a video doing it, if you want.

    Edit 3: in both videos, I'm way out of range.

    Edit: I did. Here you go. Go to 0:27 for the juicy part.



    Edit 2: did it again with Crash Shot this time. Go to 0:25.

  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,895
    Posts: 661
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    Calling that a «God» shot seems more like a misnomer, not very practical for arrow-conservation, and rather time-consuming just to get in one hit.
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,440
    Posts: 652
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Calling that a «God» shot seems more like a misnomer, not very practical for arrow-conservation, and rather time-consuming just to get in one hit.

    It's a huge waste of time, fun to hit something out of range though.
  • roseangelroseangel
    Mabinogi Rep: 825
    Posts: 22
    Member
    has anyone done SoG recently? i personally think it got patched out
  • justshowingjustshowing
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,840
    Posts: 150
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    Gaby5011 wrote: »
    I've done it multiple times. I can record a video doing it, if you want.

    Edit 3: in both videos, I'm way out of range.

    Edit: I did. Here you go. Go to 0:27 for the juicy part.



    Edit 2: did it again with Crash Shot this time. Go to 0:25.


    lol. i never said you couldn't do it, but how much stamina did you use up trying to make one shot?
    its a useless Parlier trick
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,440
    Posts: 652
    Member
    edited October 11
    roseangel wrote: »
    has anyone done SoG recently? i personally think it got patched out

    Just look at the videos I posted...

    lol. i never said you couldn't do it, but how much stamina did you use up trying to make one shot?
    its a useless Parlier trick

    I have two bags filled to the rim with potions. Not like it matters.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,700
    Posts: 3,733
    Member
    lol. i never said you couldn't do it, but how much stamina did you use up trying to make one shot?
    its a useless Parlier trick

    If it's something you can't reliably conjure on demand at a moments notice then it seems kinda pointless. I had always thought that it was a physical player, as opposed to in-game, skill that could indeed be conjured on demand, but videos seem to show it's just: "keep rolling until you get double zero". BTW, it's parlour trick ("parlor" in Yankee). People in the olden days would entertain guests in their parlour, which is basically a sitting room. Parlour comes from the French word meaning to talk; it's the same root used in the word Parliament. But here I am Giant-splaining again. Speaking of which is SoG possible with an Atlatl since, to the game engine, the atlatl is a bow/crossbow?
  • asnscorpioasnscorpio
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,145
    Posts: 371
    Member
    edited October 11
    If you can pull it off even with an elf on a more consistent basis, it does shine through because elves seems to even missing regular shots quite often. Gaby was just showing that it could be done, it's just not many people use it, but it is quite noticeable. It is indeed something that was tested back then and was proven back in the day otherwise it would have been shot down for its fallacy. I believe it got to the point people started using programs to exploit it.

    I wish the old videos were still there. It would show ppl shooting over 20 times in a row killing things via perfect timing without missing. The misses are due to the other variables. Should one refine this...who knows.

    Much like knuckles had a higher N+1 than any weapon when it was released. Think it was a 3 hit or was it 5 hit weapon? You could get 6-8 hits. If you were able to do it well enough you can get 12-18 hits. Since the skill release and having it's own class. I don't think you can do such anymore. So probably SOG is also patched up.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,895
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    I was just going to let someone else who « parle français » make the correction but the French-language word for « to speak » is actually « parler» which sounds a lot like « par-lay » in English. Parlour is literally just Parlor but Parlour can also be considered more of a British-variant spelling.

    Also... elves really can't aim without Vision-of-Ladeca. Without the existence of Vision-of-Ladeca I'd rather use a Human for Archery.
    Although it's also kind of pointless to use Archery as a Human when Humans have much higher DPS average & potential from other talents.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,497
    Member
    It's as real as the 100% aimed missed shot. Or the Wall drifting mounts. Or talking to dogs with keywords.