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Alexina is basically dead

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  • GretaGreta
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    edited May 8, 2021
    I see, you two are that kind of people. My bad. That's way worse than one guy using two accounts. Anywayyyy, have a nice one here. Byeeee!
    Helsa
  • JulieJulie
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    Greta wrote: »
    I see, you two are that kind of people. My bad. That's way worse than one guy using two accounts. Anywayyyy, have a nice one here. Byeeee!

    the two kind of people that like doing things together, how awful.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    edited May 8, 2021
    And of course I will be blamed. Smdh.

    I just wanted us to all be together. Hell I am not even on Alexina and want this. I want this for you guys. Can't we all just get along? This thread is doomed if we continue this way.

    I'm sorry if you guys don't like my solution but ultimately what is it going to take? I would love to hear what you think should be done because honestly I don't see any other way to achieve this goal.
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,025
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    And of course I will be blamed. Smdh.

    I just wanted us to all be together. Hell I am not even on Alexina and want this. I want this for you guys. Can't we all just get along? This thread is doomed if we continue this way.

    I'm sorry if you guys don't like my solution but ultimately what is it going to take? I would love to hear what you think should be done because honestly I don't see any other way to achieve this goal.

    nope you're probably entitled or something smh you're clearly meant to play the game alone as seen previously how dare we enjoy this game together

    also i love greta's suggestion gee if only we were promoting the gam...

    oh wait i think julie did just that

    KFJT4s8.png

    wild

    see you in nao i guess
  • HelsaHelsa
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    One can argue why a merge should or shouldn't be and make the most perfect reasoned arguments as to why their position is correct. Despite this, people can remain in opposition. This doesn't make them evil or stupid, it's just not in their interest.

    Some folks want the merge because they find their server is not active enough to meet their needs. Some folks don't want the merge because they feel their server is too crowded already.

    Some folks want a merge because they want to be together with all their friends across the servers. Some folks don't want a merge because they're avoiding someone or some people that aren't on their server.

    Some folks want a merge because the larger the population the more likelihood rare items will be seen on the markets. Some don't want a merge because they think the markets will become less inclusive for them.

    None of these positions are inherently stupid or evil. None of the negative emotions experienced are the ultimate fault of the players. It's all Nexon's fault because they chose to set up the game to have a community with walls between them when they did not have to. Dividing the population produces us and them, winners and losers, happy and sad/angry.

    I wish I remember where I saw it but I saw a video where some top mucky muck at Nexon said that their reason for multiple servers was to set forth "friendly" rivalry between the servers. That concept has clearly failed and biggly so. Honestly, has that fellow never been on internet? The result, I think, should come as no surprise to anyone whom has spent time on internet.
    Wolfsinger
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    To whomever this may concern:
    No, I'm not going to blame Nexon for a bunch of people rolling through a thread, name-calling, spreading rumors and lies, antagonizing anyone who disagrees with them, and then trying to backtrack as victims as if they've only been "peacefully protesting" this entire time for a subtle cause and only wanted to "be together" with people as they alienate/ignore anyone not kneeling to the tribe or simply for typing too many words. This disingenuous framing technique of innocence is what's making all of this ironically look so nefarious (especially when one person who is known to derail threads is now pretending he only wanted a discussion the entire time). If you'd just be honest and stop trying to manipulate people, you'd get a lot further. This isn't all about you and not everyone agrees with you. You're requesting something that affects many people and I'm telling you that you're going about it in a selfish, forceful, dogmatic, pathological way with no consideration of what others want. This is not how you win people over and it automatically puts you in the wrong. You could just be wrong in your idea for a merge. Consider this.

    Nexon had nothing to do with what happened in this thread. Sorry. I'm not going to do that to them. When Nexon does wrong, I'll blame Nexon. When we do wrong, I blame us and we did horribly wrong, here. I'm willing to start over, but I'm not going to pretend that apologies and corrections haven't been issued for what was done just a page ago. I corrected the issue with Helsa and I've yet to see an acknowledgment of this, but that's fine. If people insist on attacking my motives, so be it. I'm not changing my position on things because a bunch of gaslighting bullies can't tolerate my ideas.

    If reasonable people want to have a discussion and are willing to sit and talk like rational people unpossessed by ideologues, I'll happily do it. But, that does not mean I'm obligated to agree nor bend my knee to the whims of people who literally suggest burning down one's own house until someone gives them what they want, and then slapping anyone who calls them out on it. We can calmly walk through why we think the other is wrong and even arrive at some common ground and reach compromised solutions, but when people are going around saying "It's inevitable" and speaking with a dogmatic perspective as if no other opinion even matters, you're not exactly portraying yourselves as anything other than a cult who believes in an absolute end and I will not allow it to go on without challenge. If you refuse to talk, then the only option left is to fight and nobody wants that.

    Regarding Merge:

    Look, I understand people want more folks to chill with. But, that's a cheap appeal to emotion: you can simply create an account on the other server. So, no: There's a bigger picture here that's going completely ignored. There are consequences for everything you do and some of those consequences may not affect you, but they do affect others. The people in this thread that I have spoken to have themselves complained about merge-related issues, such as inflation and bank limits not keeping up.

    How do you rationalize this while asking for one more merge that will obviously make it worse? Why is it then that not only is there only one solution, but the only solution possible somehow still remains to be yet another merge? I'd think people who hated merge-related problems would actually be averse to another merge and actively seek other solutions. And yet, we travel down the exact same road. This leads me to believe that something is not right, here. There's too many contradictions, so let's pick a goal: Do we want more population or do we want more stability, because one requires a bit of sacrifice from the other and thus you cannot realistically have both.

    What do you really want? Benefit of a doubt is gone. We're going to get down to brass tacks, now.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    There is nothing inherently morally superior about avoiding negative at the expense of positive or the other way round or about the status quo over change or the other way around. People have their own desires. Often they are in a zero sum conflict with the desire of others. It doesn't make either evil or stupid.
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Helsa wrote: »
    There is nothing inherently morally superior about avoiding negative at the expense of positive or the other way round or about the status quo over change or the other way around. People have their own desires. Often they are in a zero sum conflict with the desire of others. It doesn't make either evil or stupid.

    I've not once in this entire thread called anyone evil or stupid. Childish, sure. Selfish, you bet. Inconsiderate, 100%. Why? Because asking -- demanding? forcing? -- people to make a sacrifice for your sake is all of that and then some.

    I'm actually gradually gravitating to a point of doubt after having my own character attacked so many times and not receiving any grace when I correct things. The constant, unprovoked "I'm not evil" claims, especially don't help when followed by more attacks (and lo and behold, there's the attack below from KelpSoda). My patience has worn, Helsa. I'm done with gaslighting and the games. I asked some questions in the last post. I expected answers, not more dodging and more platitudes. If you want to talk about merge, let's talk. Make the case.

    EDIT: I'll give you a simple straightforward question, here: Why do you think it's an inevitable thing coming and what can you show me that proves this?
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,025
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Helsa wrote: »
    One can argue why a merge should or shouldn't be and make the most perfect reasoned arguments as to why their position is correct. Despite this, people can remain in opposition. This doesn't make them evil or stupid, it's just not in their interest.

    Some folks want the merge because they find their server is not active enough to meet their needs. Some folks don't want the merge because they feel their server is too crowded already.

    Some folks want a merge because they want to be together with all their friends across the servers. Some folks don't want a merge because they're avoiding someone or some people that aren't on their server.

    Some folks want a merge because the larger the population the more likelihood rare items will be seen on the markets. Some don't want a merge because they think the markets will become less inclusive for them.

    None of these positions are inherently stupid or evil. None of the negative emotions experienced are the ultimate fault of the players. It's all Nexon's fault because they chose to set up the game to have a community with walls between them when they did not have to. Dividing the population produces us and them, winners and losers, happy and sad/angry.

    I wish I remember where I saw it but I saw a video where some top mucky muck at Nexon said that their reason for multiple servers was to set forth "friendly" rivalry between the servers. That concept has clearly failed and biggly so. Honestly, has that fellow never been on internet? The result, I think, should come as no surprise to anyone whom has spent time on internet.

    all the no merge points here seem super weird and antisocial tbh, i thought this was supposed to be a social game and sold as such?

    also the "solution" of just making another account 4head doesnt even work properly i needed a new steam profile, thanks nexon for letting me keep my dead account on my main steam account forever i guess?
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    KelpSoda wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    One can argue why a merge should or shouldn't be and make the most perfect reasoned arguments as to why their position is correct. Despite this, people can remain in opposition. This doesn't make them evil or stupid, it's just not in their interest.

    Some folks want the merge because they find their server is not active enough to meet their needs. Some folks don't want the merge because they feel their server is too crowded already.

    Some folks want a merge because they want to be together with all their friends across the servers. Some folks don't want a merge because they're avoiding someone or some people that aren't on their server.

    Some folks want a merge because the larger the population the more likelihood rare items will be seen on the markets. Some don't want a merge because they think the markets will become less inclusive for them.

    None of these positions are inherently stupid or evil. None of the negative emotions experienced are the ultimate fault of the players. It's all Nexon's fault because they chose to set up the game to have a community with walls between them when they did not have to. Dividing the population produces us and them, winners and losers, happy and sad/angry.

    I wish I remember where I saw it but I saw a video where some top mucky muck at Nexon said that their reason for multiple servers was to set forth "friendly" rivalry between the servers. That concept has clearly failed and biggly so. Honestly, has that fellow never been on internet? The result, I think, should come as no surprise to anyone whom has spent time on internet.

    all the no merge points here seem super weird and antisocial tbh, i thought this was supposed to be a social game and sold as such?

    also the "solution" of just making another account 4head doesnt even work properly i needed a new steam profile, thanks nexon for letting me keep my dead account on my main steam account forever i guess?

    It never was advertised that way: You all just decided to claim it was a social/sandbox/whatever-suits-your-current-argument game. The game is advertised as "Your Fantasy Life:" The world's most expressive MMORPG, where you create a unique character and live your fantasy life -- direct quote.

    That means if people don't want to socialize in their Fantasy Life, they are free not to do so and not to be forced into situations they do not find comfortable. By the way: learn the definitions of words you use. The term is "unsocial;" not "antisocial."

    Also, Use the Nexon Launcher or create another character. You're not an idiot, right? Let's stop pretending to be one.
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
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    im getting called names because i wanted to use steam features like payment methods wallet and what not on my videogame

    nice
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    Mmkay, I'll just ignore this one from now on. Me and you, Helsa.
  • JulieJulie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    KelpSoda wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    One can argue why a merge should or shouldn't be and make the most perfect reasoned arguments as to why their position is correct. Despite this, people can remain in opposition. This doesn't make them evil or stupid, it's just not in their interest.

    Some folks want the merge because they find their server is not active enough to meet their needs. Some folks don't want the merge because they feel their server is too crowded already.

    Some folks want a merge because they want to be together with all their friends across the servers. Some folks don't want a merge because they're avoiding someone or some people that aren't on their server.

    Some folks want a merge because the larger the population the more likelihood rare items will be seen on the markets. Some don't want a merge because they think the markets will become less inclusive for them.

    None of these positions are inherently stupid or evil. None of the negative emotions experienced are the ultimate fault of the players. It's all Nexon's fault because they chose to set up the game to have a community with walls between them when they did not have to. Dividing the population produces us and them, winners and losers, happy and sad/angry.

    I wish I remember where I saw it but I saw a video where some top mucky muck at Nexon said that their reason for multiple servers was to set forth "friendly" rivalry between the servers. That concept has clearly failed and biggly so. Honestly, has that fellow never been on internet? The result, I think, should come as no surprise to anyone whom has spent time on internet.

    all the no merge points here seem super weird and antisocial tbh, i thought this was supposed to be a social game and sold as such?

    also the "solution" of just making another account 4head doesnt even work properly i needed a new steam profile, thanks nexon for letting me keep my dead account on my main steam account forever i guess?

    It never was advertised that way: You all just decided to claim it was a social/sandbox/whatever-suits-your-current-argument game. The game is advertised as "Your Fantasy Life:" The world's most expressive MMORPG, where you create a unique character and live your fantasy life -- direct quote.

    That means if people don't want to socialize in their Fantasy Life, they are free not to do so and not to be forced into situations they do not find comfortable. By the way: learn the definitions of words you use. The term is "unsocial;" not "antisocial."

    Also, Use the Nexon Launcher or create another character. You're not an idiot, right? Let's stop pretending to be one.

    literally nobody is talking about forcing anyone do anything social, and as far as i know, you're breaking the rules.
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Julie wrote: »

    literally nobody is talking about forcing anyone do anything social, and as far as i know, you're breaking the rules.

    Well, that's a straight up lie, if I've ever seen one. Drop off your own server to force a merge to happen, on basis of anyone not agreeing being "antisocial?" Totally not iron fisted bullying tactics.

    But, please do explain my alleged ToS violation. Go right on ahead. I'll wait. :joy:
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
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    Julie wrote: »
    literally nobody is talking about forcing anyone do anything social, and as far as i know, you're breaking the rules.

    i feel forced to do social things when the mission says it has a minimum player requirement
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Helsa wrote: »
    There is nothing inherently morally superior about avoiding negative at the expense of positive or the other way round or about the status quo over change or the other way around. People have their own desires. Often they are in a zero sum conflict with the desire of others. It doesn't make either evil or stupid.

    I've not once in this entire thread called anyone evil or stupid. Childish, sure. Selfish, you bet. Inconsiderate, 100%. Why? Because asking -- demanding? forcing? -- people to make a sacrifice for your sake is all of that and then some.

    I'm actually gradually gravitating to a point of doubt after having my own character attacked so many times and not receiving any grace when I correct things. The constant, unprovoked "I'm not evil" claims, especially don't help when followed by more attacks (and lo and behold, there's the attack below from KelpSoda). My patience has worn, Helsa. I'm done with gaslighting and the games. I asked some questions in the last post. I expected answers, not more dodging and more platitudes. If you want to talk about merge, let's talk. Make the case.

    EDIT: I'll give you a simple straightforward question, here: Why do you think it's an inevitable thing coming and what can you show me that proves this?

    Because your server is dead, or dying, or whatever. There are more people than you who want this despite the ramifications that would come with it - stuff we can deal with down the road. (Inflation is entirely another subject, in fact there is already a thread about it). Quite frankly you're the only one who doesn't want this merge IMO. You are part of a very small percentage of people against such a merger.

    From my point of view you're the only opposition (apart from the staff and KR). But how would YOU solve the population problems in Alexina? Tell us. Because at this point we are already aware of the consequences but at the same time we just want to rip band-aid off.

    Who here wants a merger?
    Who here just wants to keep complaining about Alexina?
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Because your server is dead, or dying, or whatever. There are more people than you who want this despite the ramifications that would come with it - stuff we can deal with down the road and have already delt with. (Inflation is entirely another subject, in fact there is already a thread about it).
    Mob rule isn't justification, plus I highly doubt you can even prove that. It's also not an argument. More people agreeing with you doesn't make you right, buddy. If 500 of you say the sun is colored black and 1 person says it's not, it's possible all 500 of you are insane, blind, or lying: a cult. :joy: We've seen instances of majority insanity before. Three of them formed in China, Germany, and Soviet Russia.

    And the point of me opposing this is because, no: not everyone has adapted or "dealt with" it. A lot of people quit due to these rocketing prices for materials. There's people outside your ivory tower who struggle just getting by, trying to get ahead when the materials they need cost 11m and they need 15 of them to craft the item they need to use to Erg a weapon that needs 1b worth of other materials. And that's just one aspect of it. And still, you don't seem to have adapted, yourself, when you posted threads fussing about bank limits. You're not entirely unscathed, either, unless you want to admit that it actually wasn't as bad as you made it out to be.
    Quite frankly you're the only one who doesn't want this merge IMO. You are part of a very small percentage of people against such a merger.
    Then, you need to talk to more people outside your circle. There's more players in this game than what's in your favored guilds/groups, Crimson.

    And again, being a minority don't automatically make me wrong or you right. In fact, aren't you one of those "we should listen to minority voices" type people? Or does that only apply when they agree with you? :joy:
    From my point of view you're the only opposition (apart from the staff and KR).
    Sounds like I'm on the right side, then. The side of people who know how to run a business well enough to keep a "dead" game going for 13 years.
    But how would YOU solve the population problems in Alexina? Tell us. Because at this point we are already aware of the consequences but at the same time we just want to rip band-aid off.

    Alright, this is where we have the actual conversation. We've already started to see KR's director make moves towards raising ease of gameplay, which covers my central point regarding economic prosperity:

    The changes made to Blaanid have shifted the scope in favor of newer players, making it easier to catch up to earlier players and join them in content. The encouragement by the devs to appeal to the players who don't hold as much of a conviction to grinding as others alleviates the pressure for them and allows them more freedom to explore and be creative. It plays into the "Your Fantasy Life" motto, by opening up more doors and easing the climb over walls.

    The changes to the access of chests make progress significantly easier and less reliant upon people who may otherwise discriminate against the less efficient or sufficient. The raising of access -- thus raising of supply -- to meet demand through this change makes general market prices less threatening and discouraging to players to don't wish to pay loads of cash just to get a decent set of gear. The socializing aspect thus finds itself also encouraged, because players are able to feel more confident that they can meet other players and join together to play through various content and have fun doing it; they will know that it'll be more worthwhile in the end and the market is not under control by select individuals or groups due to skewed levels of accessibility.

    Basically, the KR director is already doing most of what I've suggested. The last thing to do after all this is to advertise the game and then close the deal with the introduction of newer players to the game. I'd also suggest creating a server transfer system, that would allow movement between servers. This way, Alexina can stay the "quiet" server and Nao can be the "bustling" server and no one is locked to either server.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    edited May 8, 2021
    We now know that Nexon will merge if conditions are met. Alexina is moving to those conditions. Therefore a merge is inevitable.
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
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    edited May 8, 2021
    Helsa wrote: »
    We now know that Nexon will merge if conditions are met. Alexina is moving to those conditions. Therefore a merge is inevitable.

    No, we don't. Still no evidence shown. Repeating yourselves over and over isn't evidence, Helsa.

    The actual reasoning given by Staff was that they merged the original 3 to balance server population, not because servers were "dying." If the servers were "Dead," then there would be no/little net increase in overall population from the merge. This is just simple math at this point.
    Greta
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Helsa wrote: »
    We now know that Nexon will merge if conditions are met. Alexina is moving to those conditions. Therefore a merge is inevitable.

    No, we don't. Still no evidence shown. Repeating yourselves over and over isn't evidence, Helsa.

    The actual reasoning given by Staff was that they merged the original 3 to balance server population, not because servers were "dying." If the servers were "Dead," then there would be no/little net increase in overall population from the merge. This is just simple math at this point.

    Three channels were added to Nao within days of it firing up. The population was not balanced. The imbalance continues to grow. Alexina will eventually have activity levels on it that Nexon considers to not be viable. At that point they will move to merge the servers.
This discussion has been closed.