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Alexina is basically dead

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  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,770
    Posts: 445
    Member
    edited May 8, 2021
    Late to the party but just merge the servers already, I'm tired of these back and forth debates. Y'all will eventually find something else to complain about after it happens anyway.
    Juliet1972
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,220
    Posts: 8,873
    Member
    edited May 8, 2021
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Late to the party but just merge the servers already, I'm tired of these back and forth debates. Y'all will eventually find something else to complain about after it happens anyway.

    Yeah I hate the back and forth bs too. If you're not on board with this then make your statements, fine. I used to be that person who had a lot to say. I would vomit out paragraphs and monologues. But I believe in just getting straight to the point. We waste a lot of time and resources going on and on.


    Also FTR, I'm for the majority, not the minority Sophie. As Helsa likes to call me a red hat because I'm a republican. I don't believe in catering to a specific few with special treatment, (unless you're legit disabled). But that's a whole other can of worms. Moving on.

    Alright, this is where we have the actual conversation. We've already started to see KR's director make moves towards raising ease of gameplay, which covers my central point regarding economic prosperity:

    The changes made to Blaanid have shifted the scope in favor of newer players, making it easier to catch up to earlier players and join them in content. The encouragement by the devs to appeal to the players who don't hold as much of a conviction to grinding as others alleviates the pressure for them and allows them more freedom to explore and be creative. It plays into the "Your Fantasy Life" motto, by opening up more doors and easing the climb over walls.

    The changes to the access of chests make progress significantly easier and less reliant upon people who may otherwise discriminate against the less efficient or sufficient. The raising of access -- thus raising of supply -- to meet demand through this change makes general market prices less threatening and discouraging to players to don't wish to pay loads of cash just to get a decent set of gear. The socializing aspect thus finds itself also encouraged, because players are able to feel more confident that they can meet other players and join together to play through various content and have fun doing it; they will know that it'll be more worthwhile in the end and the market is not under control by select individuals or groups due to skewed levels of accessibility.

    Basically, the KR director is already doing most of what I've suggested. The last thing to do after all this is to advertise the game and then close the deal with the introduction of newer players to the game. I'd also suggest creating a server transfer system, that would allow movement between servers. This way, Alexina can stay the "quiet" server and Nao can be the "bustling" server and no one is locked to either server.


    That's great and all, but it doesn't actually address the issues your server is having. It helps newer players catch up with older or more higher level/developed players in general for the game itself. Which is awesome - IF they actually start on Alexina to do so and stay there.

    The only way something like that could help is if there was more incentive to join and STAY on Alexina, which unfortunately right now there is not. Players prefer more active servers (FACTS) and when people see that Alexina is a wasteland then it's going to cause them to check out the Nao server. So how do you propose to stop them from doing that? 13 years and that pattern still holds true for any game.

    Let me paint this picture for you; New player downloads the game. New player creates new character and selects the Alexina server. Player discovers Alexina is pretty much DEAD. There is barely anyone to talk to. New player decides to check out the other server. Then you get this:

    ?width=260&version=53093

    So, Sophie, how do you stop that? :D

    Because this was part of a similar argument that I used back in the day when Alexina was stealing all the new players from the other servers. lol. We need to merge because this pattern is not going to stop. You can not control what people do. I'm sorry, I am truly am, but this is the truth of the matter.

    UGH...LOOK AT THIS. YOU MADE ME MAKE A WALL OF TEXT. IT'S LONGER THAN MY SCREEN. REEEEEEEEEE! :joy:
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,930
    Posts: 340
    Member
    Julie wrote: »

    literally nobody is talking about forcing anyone do anything social, and as far as i know, you're breaking the rules.

    Well, that's a straight up lie, if I've ever seen one. Drop off your own server to force a merge to happen, on basis of anyone not agreeing being "antisocial?" Totally not iron fisted bullying tactics.

    But, please do explain my alleged ToS violation. Go right on ahead. I'll wait. :joy:

    are you referring that to me? because it appears youre accusing me of saying things i never said. im also not your babysitter you can look at the rules yourself.
    Crimsọn
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,045
    Posts: 286
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »

    Let me paint this picture for you; new player downloads the game. New player creates new character and selects the Alexina server. Player discovers Alexina is dead. New player decides to check out the other server. Then you get this:

    ?width=260&version=53093

    bro, literally me, i threw away my main steam account because i'm not allowed to use my main anymore but it's gonna get tiring and i'll end up abandoning the game because its bothersome to not have my steam goodies while playing mabi

    but some people here rather call me names than acknowledge this is a legit issue :^)
    Crimsọn
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,220
    Posts: 8,873
    Member
    edited May 8, 2021
    DHHYHUC.png
  • That_one_giantThat_one_giant
    Mabinogi Rep: 325
    Posts: 2
    Member
    i am a new player,i've been playing for a year on Nao.And learned about its merge history and the problems that its created. i must say if you're completely new and started to play the game in this current state without any knowledge . it is hard, even in nao with more population, there is inflation that is currently happening due to the past merge making progression is harder to achieve because after training your Talent, you need to actually get a decent gear that cost you hundred millions of gold to be able to participate in adv content that people run most (Raids,Tech Mission,Puri),This also affect Fashion items which is concerning for most people. And then the lack of public party for low-mid tier content,getting rejected because one cannot do a high enough damage,and rarely getting invited to a content because you don't have amazing gear to cheese dungeons. meaning there is a huge power gap between new player and old player, This pretty much drives new people away from mabi because they see themself stuck in a place unable to move forward. But even though that happen the current progression is still viable, if people keep demanding another merge and it gets accepted i believe this problem will keep getting worse...hyperinflation,more player quit the game,and the History of Past Merge will happen again, therefore i Disagree with another merge.

    And if one just simply want to socialize in mabi they can use Mabi forum,Mabi reddit,or Mabi discord for it. there is no need for a merge just to be able to chat with people.Thank you for reading.
    GretaMomma_SophieSherri
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,930
    Posts: 340
    Member
    i am a new player,i've been playing for a year on Nao.And learned about its merge history and the problems that its created. i must say if you're completely new and started to play the game in this current state without any knowledge . it is hard, even in nao with more population, there is inflation that is currently happening due to the past merge making progression is harder to achieve because after training your Talent, you need to actually get a decent gear that cost you hundred millions of gold to be able to participate in adv content that people run most (Raids,Tech Mission,Puri),This also affect Fashion items which is concerning for most people. And then the lack of public party for low-mid tier content,getting rejected because one cannot do a high enough damage,and rarely getting invited to a content because you don't have amazing gear to cheese dungeons. meaning there is a huge power gap between new player and old player, This pretty much drives new people away from mabi because they see themself stuck in a place unable to move forward. But even though that happen the current progression is still viable, if people keep demanding another merge and it gets accepted i believe this problem will keep getting worse...hyperinflation,more player quit the game,and the History of Past Merge will happen again, therefore i Disagree with another merge.

    And if one just simply want to socialize in mabi they can use Mabi forum,Mabi reddit,or Mabi discord for it. there is no need for a merge just to be able to chat with people.Thank you for reading.

    Question:
    If inflation happens to happen after a merge, what is causing it and why does it happen in the first place? a server merge doesn't simply inflate prices on its own and out of the blue, it doesnt make any sense on its own.

    Regarding inflation: You can argue about the lack of space for it, but inflation happens everywhere not just on the other players that isnt you, you can always make some gold by selling some holy water and crafting your own things and take advantage of that situation in making money.

    Regarding finding parties: if finding parties of your mid to low tier is difficult for you, then what makes it when youre in Alexina? theres a bigger population of older players than newer ones in that server and theres far far less players around your mid to low tier levels to join you, in this point your making the merge rather works in favor of fixing this issue.

    Also for socializing: this in an mmorpg, the entire experience is related to also socializing and working with others to complete quests and missions, not to mention all the social features this game is added through gestures and minigames and what not.

  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,045
    Posts: 286
    Member
    edited May 8, 2021
    Julie wrote: »
    Also for socializing: this in an mmorpg, the entire experience is related to also socializing and working with others to complete quests and missions, not to mention all the social features this game is added through gestures and minigames and what not.

    nope, my fantasy life is to be a hermit in tir na nog talking to dingos dont bully me into having fun

    ok lets be real you can still do your hermit thing in a populated server but you can't make the spontaneous fun of an mmo happen on a server that doesnt get new players
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,575
    Posts: 290
    Member
    edited May 9, 2021
    To Helsa:
    Helsa wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    We now know that Nexon will merge if conditions are met. Alexina is moving to those conditions. Therefore a merge is inevitable.

    No, we don't. Still no evidence shown. Repeating yourselves over and over isn't evidence, Helsa.

    The actual reasoning given by Staff was that they merged the original 3 to balance server population, not because servers were "dying." If the servers were "Dead," then there would be no/little net increase in overall population from the merge. This is just simple math at this point.

    Three channels were added to Nao within days of it firing up. The population was not balanced. The imbalance continues to grow. Alexina will eventually have activity levels on it that Nexon considers to not be viable. At that point they will move to merge the servers.

    This is because of the returning players and also your own players from Alexina coming to the server. You're also pretending we've somehow maintained that level of population since day one, with every channel filled to the brim with people. Ideally, if the majority of you just stayed on your server, we wouldn't have had these issues to begin with. Don't be disingenuous, Helsa. You're better than that.

    The point was that you're wrong about the intention and conditions. They explicitly stated the conditions; stop toting this false narrative that the merge occurred because of dead servers. It's wrong.

    To Julie:
    Julie wrote: »
    Julie wrote: »

    literally nobody is talking about forcing anyone do anything social, and as far as i know, you're breaking the rules.

    Well, that's a straight up lie, if I've ever seen one. Drop off your own server to force a merge to happen, on basis of anyone not agreeing being "antisocial?" Totally not iron fisted bullying tactics.

    But, please do explain my alleged ToS violation. Go right on ahead. I'll wait. :joy:

    are you referring that to me? because it appears youre accusing me of saying things i never said. im also not your babysitter you can look at the rules yourself.
    Look, I don't time for your gaslighting. You clearly support Crimson's idea; it doesn't matter who originated the idea. I didn't see you condemning Crimson's idea. Crimson's idea obviously serves your aim: to merge servers. If Crimson's idea isn't what you'd like to see happen, then condemn it now and put it to rest and stop playing games. But, you won't. We both know you won't.

    Additionally, you seem to believe that you can just accuse people of stuff and then just not show evidence for your accusations. This is like getting pulled over by police (in your case, morality police), being told you broke a law, asking how you did so, and the police telling you it's not her job to show probable cause for your arrest and you should tell her how you broke the law.

    You're not here for a discussion. You're here to lie and soak up attention and I'm not indulging it beyond these last responses.

    To Crimson:
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Late to the party but just merge the servers already, I'm tired of these back and forth debates. Y'all will eventually find something else to complain about after it happens anyway.

    Yeah I hate the back and forth bs too. If you're not on board with this then make your statements, fine. I used to be that person who had a lot to say. I would vomit out paragraphs and monologues. But I believe in just getting straight to the point. We waste a lot of time and resources going on and on.

    If you don't want to be challenged, then stop throwing out ideas. You're not tired of the back-and-forth; you're tired of being challenged and not getting your way. You don't get to just make claims, pose ideas, and then expect nobody to respond and expect to not have to defend or justify them. That's not how the world works, Crimson. If you're too lazy to make the argument, your idea is probably also lazy and should be challenged.
    Also FTR, I'm for the majority, not the minority Sophie. As Helsa likes to call me a red hat because I'm a republican. I don't believe in catering to a specific few with special treatment, (unless you're legit disabled). But that's a whole other can of worms. Moving on.

    Alright. I'll retract my point, there. Thanks for sharing.
    That's great and all, but it doesn't actually address the issues your server is having. It helps newer players catch up with older or more higher level/developed players in general for the game itself. Which is awesome - IF they actually start on Alexina to do so and stay there.

    You're assuming everybody is just like this and wants to play on the populated server. I -- for example -- specifically choose Tarlach, when I came back to Mabi in 2016, because it had a low population and yet not the lowest. There are people like me who don't want to be hassled by people and just want a quiet life and can actually enjoy being alone, save for a couple friends. Some people don't need a giant server full of AFKs and drama-mongers. They just don't; we have to consider those kinds of people, Crimson. We need to maintain a quiet server that they can choose to play on, rather than be forced to join the loud majority.
    The only way something like that could help is if there was more incentive to join and STAY on Alexina, which unfortunately right now there is not. Players prefer more active servers (FACTS)
    No. It is not a fact, because I and many others are a literal embodiment of your falsehood. And just saying the word "facts" doesn't automatically make it a fact; you have to show evidence and your track record of doing that is not looking too good. You are stating an opinion based upon an assumption projected from your own preferences onto the masses and that's all there is to that.
    and when people see that Alexina is a wasteland then it's going to cause them to check out the Nao server. So how do you propose to stop them from doing that? 13 years and that pattern still holds true for any game.

    Is that why Tarlach remained higher than both Mari and Ruairi? Because everyone wanted to be on Alexina? The actual fact is that the original three servers clearly had an active enough population on all three to still warrant both return, exploration, and visitation of new and old players; this is why the merge was even conducted in the first place, but you choose to ignore this because you obviously have a personal investment in seeing a final merge happen. How do I know? Because, you're not making objective points; you're making personal points.
    Let me paint this picture for you; New player downloads the game. New player creates new character and selects the Alexina server. Player discovers Alexina is pretty much DEAD. There is barely anyone to talk to. New player decides to check out the other server.
    You again assume the new player -- and all new players -- simply want to be around loads of people all the time. You have no idea how humans work. They are not all the same, Crimson. You're assuming way too much on basis of way too little. Get out of your echo chamber; not everyone is like you, like your guild(s), or like your friends.
    You can not control what people do.
    Exactly my point with you. Have some capacity for self-reflection, Crimson. You're the one assuming that you can just force Nexon to give you a merge by -- again -- using collective force upon Alexinians to push them to decimate their own server out of protest. You're the one who assumes conversation is for the sake of getting people to do what you want and agree with what you propose. You are the one who avoids me specifically because I am disagreeable to your aims and your cause. The person with control issue is not me, Crimson. I just want to be left alone and not forced into situations I -- and others like me -- don't like. The server merge will bring situations I -- and you, I think, not sure at this point -- don't like, such as market inflation. This is why I an a fan of options, not absolutes. I proposed a server transfer: the option to move. You ignored that just so you could do this routine and it's obvious that you did, because a server transfer obviously allows more traffic to flow from Alexina to Nao, if the Alexinians so choose to be with more people.

    To Julie, Part Two:
    Julie wrote: »
    i am a new player,i've been playing for a year on Nao.And learned about its merge history and the problems that its created. i must say if you're completely new and started to play the game in this current state without any knowledge . it is hard, even in nao with more population, there is inflation that is currently happening due to the past merge making progression is harder to achieve because after training your Talent, you need to actually get a decent gear that cost you hundred millions of gold to be able to participate in adv content that people run most (Raids,Tech Mission,Puri),This also affect Fashion items which is concerning for most people. And then the lack of public party for low-mid tier content,getting rejected because one cannot do a high enough damage,and rarely getting invited to a content because you don't have amazing gear to cheese dungeons. meaning there is a huge power gap between new player and old player, This pretty much drives new people away from mabi because they see themself stuck in a place unable to move forward. But even though that happen the current progression is still viable, if people keep demanding another merge and it gets accepted i believe this problem will keep getting worse...hyperinflation,more player quit the game,and the History of Past Merge will happen again, therefore i Disagree with another merge.

    And if one just simply want to socialize in mabi they can use Mabi forum,Mabi reddit,or Mabi discord for it. there is no need for a merge just to be able to chat with people.Thank you for reading.

    Question:
    If inflation happens to happen after a merge, what is causing it and why does it happen in the first place? a server merge doesn't simply inflate prices on its own and out of the blue, it doesnt make any sense on its own.

    Regarding inflation: You can argue about the lack of space for it, but inflation happens everywhere not just on the other players that isnt you, you can always make some gold by selling some holy water and crafting your own things and take advantage of that situation in making money.

    Regarding finding parties: if finding parties of your mid to low tier is difficult for you, then what makes it when youre in Alexina? theres a bigger population of older players than newer ones in that server and theres far far less players around your mid to low tier levels to join you, in this point your making the merge rather works in favor of fixing this issue.

    Also for socializing: this in an mmorpg, the entire experience is related to also socializing and working with others to complete quests and missions, not to mention all the social features this game is added through gestures and minigames and what not.

    You can literally just go to my Inflation threads to find answers to these questions regarding it. You won't, because you don't actually care to know. The thing only you want is agreement. You don't even care to understand why that user you responded to prefers not to sell holy water for meager lump sums of gold to try and buy a 250m+ Misty Red Gem. The person also literally just told you that the merge didn't fix the problem of finding parties. How in the heck do you figure that another merge would fix this when it didn't fix it the first time?

    You don't get to define why people play Mabinogi or what Mabinogi is supposed to be. Fantasy Life is whatever the individual decides it is; yes, socializing is related, but none of you are proposing your suggestions as if they are anything other than an absolute must -- a necessity that must be available 24/7 or it's not good enough. If you want a social circle that badly, go to a place literally designed for that: it's called "social media." This is a video game and there are consequences for your actions if you don't address the other aspects of the game in pursuit of building a giant circlejerk.
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,930
    Posts: 340
    Member

    To Julie, Part Two:
    Julie wrote: »
    i am a new player,i've been playing for a year on Nao.And learned about its merge history and the problems that its created. i must say if you're completely new and started to play the game in this current state without any knowledge . it is hard, even in nao with more population, there is inflation that is currently happening due to the past merge making progression is harder to achieve because after training your Talent, you need to actually get a decent gear that cost you hundred millions of gold to be able to participate in adv content that people run most (Raids,Tech Mission,Puri),This also affect Fashion items which is concerning for most people. And then the lack of public party for low-mid tier content,getting rejected because one cannot do a high enough damage,and rarely getting invited to a content because you don't have amazing gear to cheese dungeons. meaning there is a huge power gap between new player and old player, This pretty much drives new people away from mabi because they see themself stuck in a place unable to move forward. But even though that happen the current progression is still viable, if people keep demanding another merge and it gets accepted i believe this problem will keep getting worse...hyperinflation,more player quit the game,and the History of Past Merge will happen again, therefore i Disagree with another merge.

    And if one just simply want to socialize in mabi they can use Mabi forum,Mabi reddit,or Mabi discord for it. there is no need for a merge just to be able to chat with people.Thank you for reading.

    Question:
    If inflation happens to happen after a merge, what is causing it and why does it happen in the first place? a server merge doesn't simply inflate prices on its own and out of the blue, it doesnt make any sense on its own.

    Regarding inflation: You can argue about the lack of space for it, but inflation happens everywhere not just on the other players that isnt you, you can always make some gold by selling some holy water and crafting your own things and take advantage of that situation in making money.

    Regarding finding parties: if finding parties of your mid to low tier is difficult for you, then what makes it when youre in Alexina? theres a bigger population of older players than newer ones in that server and theres far far less players around your mid to low tier levels to join you, in this point your making the merge rather works in favor of fixing this issue.

    Also for socializing: this in an mmorpg, the entire experience is related to also socializing and working with others to complete quests and missions, not to mention all the social features this game is added through gestures and minigames and what not.

    You can literally just go to my Inflation threads to find answers to these questions regarding it. You won't, because you don't actually care to know. The thing only you want is agreement. You don't even care to understand why that user you responded to prefers not to sell holy water for meager lump sums of gold to try and buy a 250m+ Misty Red Gem. The person also literally just told you that the merge didn't fix the problem of finding parties. How in the heck do you figure that another merge would fix this when it didn't fix it the first time?

    You don't get to define why people play Mabinogi or what Mabinogi is supposed to be. Fantasy Life is whatever the individual decides it is; yes, socializing is related, but none of you are proposing your suggestions as if they are anything other than an absolute must -- a necessity that must be available 24/7 or it's not good enough. If you want a social circle that badly, go to a place literally designed for that: it's called "social media." This is a video game and there are consequences for your actions if you don't address the other aspects of the game in pursuit of building a giant circlejerk.
    I care to know enough to ask why the inflation of the first place, maybe i will hear you out if you answer it instead of trying to lecture me about how you somehow know more on whats my mind than I do, and also if you stop trying to crap all over my thread. Also im not interested in going through hundreds of pages to find that answer, so either answer or me or dont bother responding to my question then and stop wasting people's time.

    Having a bigger population of people also increases the chances of running into people that could do mid tier and low tier content with you, and despite all that i find plenty of newbies in places in tir chaonil in the nao server to do things with anyways, its nowhere as much as a problem as it is in Alexina.

    Also here's how Nexon advertises Mabinogi:

    over half of the video involves doing numerous activities with others and using the social features mabi has, you cant just tell me that Mabi isnt advertised this way when the literal trailer of this is sitting in the front page in steam to set your expectations of the game.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 22,445
    Posts: 5,281
    Member
    edited May 9, 2021
    To Helsa:
    Helsa wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    We now know that Nexon will merge if conditions are met. Alexina is moving to those conditions. Therefore a merge is inevitable.

    No, we don't. Still no evidence shown. Repeating yourselves over and over isn't evidence, Helsa.

    The actual reasoning given by Staff was that they merged the original 3 to balance server population, not because servers were "dying." If the servers were "Dead," then there would be no/little net increase in overall population from the merge. This is just simple math at this point.

    Three channels were added to Nao within days of it firing up. The population was not balanced. The imbalance continues to grow. Alexina will eventually have activity levels on it that Nexon considers to not be viable. At that point they will move to merge the servers.

    This is because of the returning players and also your own players from Alexina coming to the server.

    No, doubt those are the reasons why. Nonetheless, if Nexon's goal was just to balance the servers; they failed. Perhaps Nexon hadn't anticipated both of those actions?

    But if the servers were not balanced what does that mean? It means that some servers had larger populations than others. This was the case since, say, a few years after Alexina was fired up. So, why didn't they balance the servers then? Them not being sufficiently unbalanced to warrant it I suppose would be the reason? What would sufficiently unbalanced mean then? That one server has so much more than another? Well, maybe but as the nay sayers say if the smaller server is not THAT small then the action isn't warranted. Okay then we're left with the smaller servers being too small. How small is too small? Well, everyone has their own opinion but the one that matters is Nexon's. As players we can't ultimately know what that is but the merge that created Nao shows that it does exist. So, if a server population is in decline then it comes closer and closer to Nexon's defined critical point. Alexina may not be there, as of this writing, but it is headed that way. A final merge is inevitable.

    I wanna touch on one more thing you said. You talked about returning players. By merging the three original servers folks were compelled to start playing again. Dormant players of the three original servers had something new and more active to return to. What did dormant players of Alexina have? The same-ole same-ole. The creation of Nao created no extra impetus for dormant Alexina players to return to their Alexina characters. This shows that merges do do what the pro-sayers call for.
    You're also pretending we've somehow maintained that level of population since day one, with every channel filled to the brim with people. Ideally, if the majority of you just stayed on your server, we wouldn't have had these issues to begin with. Don't be disingenuous, Helsa. You're better than that.

    By "we've", I assume Nao? Are you say Nao's population is also in decline? If it is then that will also be a contributing factor hastening a final merge.


  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,930
    Posts: 340
    Member
    To Julie:
    Julie wrote: »
    Julie wrote: »

    literally nobody is talking about forcing anyone do anything social, and as far as i know, you're breaking the rules.

    Well, that's a straight up lie, if I've ever seen one. Drop off your own server to force a merge to happen, on basis of anyone not agreeing being "antisocial?" Totally not iron fisted bullying tactics.

    But, please do explain my alleged ToS violation. Go right on ahead. I'll wait. :joy:

    are you referring that to me? because it appears youre accusing me of saying things i never said. im also not your babysitter you can look at the rules yourself.
    Look, I don't time for your gaslighting. You clearly support Crimson's idea; it doesn't matter who originated the idea. I didn't see you condemning Crimson's idea. Crimson's idea obviously serves your aim: to merge servers. If Crimson's idea isn't what you'd like to see happen, then condemn it now and put it to rest and stop playing games. But, you won't. We both know you won't.

    Additionally, you seem to believe that you can just accuse people of stuff and then just not show evidence for your accusations. This is like getting pulled over by police (in your case, morality police), being told you broke a law, asking how you did so, and the police telling you it's not her job to show probable cause for your arrest and you should tell her how you broke the law.

    You're not here for a discussion. You're here to lie and soak up attention and I'm not indulging it beyond these last responses.

    Im not interested in addressing every single thing there is to this thread as its getting spicy as it is and youre the one contributing to it that way, and the absence of rejecting ideas doesnt automatically mean support, youre just damaging controlling now because you cant control your projection issue, which is something you should work on fixing instead of taking it out on me.

    Also I dont tell people what the rules are because im not the mod. But ill tell you what you did then my child. You called KelpSoda a derogatory name, its against the rules and its stated in the first bullet point of forum rules, you can read it here https://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/23904/mabinogi-forum-code-of-conduct
    Crimsọn
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,220
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    edited May 9, 2021
    To Crimson:
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Late to the party but just merge the servers already, I'm tired of these back and forth debates. Y'all will eventually find something else to complain about after it happens anyway.

    Yeah I hate the back and forth bs too. If you're not on board with this then make your statements, fine. I used to be that person who had a lot to say. I would vomit out paragraphs and monologues. But I believe in just getting straight to the point. We waste a lot of time and resources going on and on.

    If you don't want to be challenged, then stop throwing out ideas. You're not tired of the back-and-forth; you're tired of being challenged and not getting your way. You don't get to just make claims, pose ideas, and then expect nobody to respond and expect to not have to defend or justify them. That's not how the world works, Crimson. If you're too lazy to make the argument, your idea is probably also lazy and should be challenged.
    Also FTR, I'm for the majority, not the minority Sophie. As Helsa likes to call me a red hat because I'm a republican. I don't believe in catering to a specific few with special treatment, (unless you're legit disabled). But that's a whole other can of worms. Moving on.

    Alright. I'll retract my point, there. Thanks for sharing.
    That's great and all, but it doesn't actually address the issues your server is having. It helps newer players catch up with older or more higher level/developed players in general for the game itself. Which is awesome - IF they actually start on Alexina to do so and stay there.

    You're assuming everybody is just like this and wants to play on the populated server. I -- for example -- specifically choose Tarlach, when I came back to Mabi in 2016, because it had a low population and yet not the lowest. There are people like me who don't want to be hassled by people and just want a quiet life and can actually enjoy being alone, save for a couple friends. Some people don't need a giant server full of AFKs and drama-mongers. They just don't; we have to consider those kinds of people, Crimson. We need to maintain a quiet server that they can choose to play on, rather than be forced to join the loud majority.
    The only way something like that could help is if there was more incentive to join and STAY on Alexina, which unfortunately right now there is not. Players prefer more active servers (FACTS)
    No. It is not a fact, because I and many others are a literal embodiment of your falsehood. And just saying the word "facts" doesn't automatically make it a fact; you have to show evidence and your track record of doing that is not looking too good. You are stating an opinion based upon an assumption projected from your own preferences onto the masses and that's all there is to that.
    and when people see that Alexina is a wasteland then it's going to cause them to check out the Nao server. So how do you propose to stop them from doing that? 13 years and that pattern still holds true for any game.

    Is that why Tarlach remained higher than both Mari and Ruairi? Because everyone wanted to be on Alexina? The actual fact is that the original three servers clearly had an active enough population on all three to still warrant both return, exploration, and visitation of new and old players; this is why the merge was even conducted in the first place, but you choose to ignore this because you obviously have a personal investment in seeing a final merge happen. How do I know? Because, you're not making objective points; you're making personal points.
    Let me paint this picture for you; New player downloads the game. New player creates new character and selects the Alexina server. Player discovers Alexina is pretty much DEAD. There is barely anyone to talk to. New player decides to check out the other server.
    You again assume the new player -- and all new players -- simply want to be around loads of people all the time. You have no idea how humans work. They are not all the same, Crimson. You're assuming way too much on basis of way too little. Get out of your echo chamber; not everyone is like you, like your guild(s), or like your friends.
    You can not control what people do.
    Exactly my point with you. Have some capacity for self-reflection, Crimson. You're the one assuming that you can just force Nexon to give you a merge by -- again -- using collective force upon Alexinians to push them to decimate their own server out of protest. You're the one who assumes conversation is for the sake of getting people to do what you want and agree with what you propose. You are the one who avoids me specifically because I am disagreeable to your aims and your cause. The person with control issue is not me, Crimson. I just want to be left alone and not forced into situations I -- and others like me -- don't like. The server merge will bring situations I -- and you, I think, not sure at this point -- don't like, such as market inflation. This is why I an a fan of options, not absolutes. I proposed a server transfer: the option to move. You ignored that just so you could do this routine and it's obvious that you did, because a server transfer obviously allows more traffic to flow from Alexina to Nao, if the Alexinians so choose to be with more people.

    This is pretty obsessive at this point. I'm not going to reply to all that either. I think we're done here, for now.
  • PectylPectyl
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,475
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    I remember I mentioned that Alexina is going to become the new Mari server at some point, Not over night but in a slow and steady path forward the same result and I got absolutely shutdown when I wrote that in the Mabinogi Discord back when the merge had just happened.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,220
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    edited May 9, 2021
    Pectyl wrote: »
    I remember I mentioned that Alexina is going to become the new Mari server at some point, Not over night but in a slow and steady path forward the same result and I got absolutely shutdown when I wrote that in the Mabinogi Discord back when the merge had just happened.

    Well what do you expect? The merge was an exciting/terrifying event that we all had to go through (sans Alexina). People were estactic that we finally got a merge after years of begging for it. I even scheduled 2 days off from work just so I could secure character names and had one of my friends call me just to make sure I woke up on time. lol. I'm sorry you were silenced for making predictions, was it one of the power tripping mods? (Don't mention names or even discord servers).
  • PectylPectyl
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,475
    Posts: 78
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    edited May 9, 2021
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Pectyl wrote: »
    I remember I mentioned that Alexina is going to become the new Mari server at some point, Not over night but in a slow and steady path forward the same result and I got absolutely shutdown when I wrote that in the Mabinogi Discord back when the merge had just happened.

    Well what do you expect? The merge was an exciting/terrifying event that we all had to go through (sans Alexina). People were estactic that we finally got a merge after years of begging for it. I even scheduled 2 days off from work just so I could secure character names and had one of my friends call me just to make sure I woke up on time. lol. I'm sorry you were silenced for making predictions, was it one of the power tripping mods? (Don't mention names or even discord servers).

    It sure was an exhilarating experience.....or not XD
    But I was always sure we needed a merge at some point, Just sad Alexina was left out.
    I don't remember if there was any mods involved but I sure remember being afraid I would get kicked or banned X) which I wasn't luckily.
    Crimsọn
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,220
    Posts: 8,873
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    Pectyl wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Pectyl wrote: »
    I remember I mentioned that Alexina is going to become the new Mari server at some point, Not over night but in a slow and steady path forward the same result and I got absolutely shutdown when I wrote that in the Mabinogi Discord back when the merge had just happened.

    Well what do you expect? The merge was an exciting/terrifying event that we all had to go through (sans Alexina). People were estactic that we finally got a merge after years of begging for it. I even scheduled 2 days off from work just so I could secure character names and had one of my friends call me just to make sure I woke up on time. lol. I'm sorry you were silenced for making predictions, was it one of the power tripping mods? (Don't mention names or even discord servers).

    It sure was an exhilarating experience.....or not XD
    But I was always sure we needed a merge at some point, Just sad Alexina was left out.
    I don't remember if there was any mods involved but I sure remember being afraid I would get kicked or banned X) which I wasn't luckily.

    Oh don't be afraid of them. 9dnGeIh_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 22,445
    Posts: 5,281
    Member
    Pectyl wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Pectyl wrote: »
    I remember I mentioned that Alexina is going to become the new Mari server at some point, Not over night but in a slow and steady path forward the same result and I got absolutely shutdown when I wrote that in the Mabinogi Discord back when the merge had just happened.

    Well what do you expect? The merge was an exciting/terrifying event that we all had to go through (sans Alexina). People were estactic that we finally got a merge after years of begging for it. I even scheduled 2 days off from work just so I could secure character names and had one of my friends call me just to make sure I woke up on time. lol. I'm sorry you were silenced for making predictions, was it one of the power tripping mods? (Don't mention names or even discord servers).

    It sure was an exhilarating experience.....or not XD
    But I was always sure we needed a merge at some point, Just sad Alexina was left out.
    I don't remember if there was any mods involved but I sure remember being afraid I would get kicked or banned X) which I wasn't luckily.

    Just stay polite. Don't say anything hateful. Stick to the issue. Avoid folks baiting you into personal attacks. If you still get banned? Well, think of it as a personal filter that YOU are applying to them. If you get banned for not agreeing with them then do you really want to be a part of that discussion community?
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,220
    Posts: 8,873
    Member
    edited May 10, 2021
    You guys are silly. Worse case scenario you get ignored.

    Tbh I prefer the forums because most stuff you post in there gets swallowed up.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,420
    Posts: 755
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    I ended up needed to split this message into two three parts after all~ Note : Because of the amount of «quote-nesting» involved in some of these responses, I might not necessarily have posted my responses in a necessarily seemingly logical-manner, especially considering how it is rather difficult to keep track of where quotes being and/or end as I am trying to snip out the not-so-necessarily relevant points when re-quoting another's quote. I ask that quote-nesting be doing sparingly or to cut back on it a bit.

    MASSIVE MEGA-REPLY TO LOTS OF DIFFERENT PARTICIPANTS HERE IN ONE POST!!! How-ever, because the majority content that I have here is in response to Sophie, I must necessarily «pre-qualify» part of the reasoning for why I am responding in such manner. I assure everyone, this is only to assist in trying to help everyone be a bit more «professional» with their interactions, and, you should all gain a better-understanding of why I may be trying to do here after listening to this...

    Anyway, now that we have that less-than-five-minute video-clip covered, let us get down to business...
    Julie wrote: »
    Now i cant even find randos to socialize which is one of the most recognizable things about this game, its sad.
    Certain times & places will yield more «predictable» results. Raids were still popular before I was forced into Mabi-inactivity so you might consider joining the Black Dragon-Raids or those raids in Avalon during their spawn-times (BDR has more predictability whilst Avalon-Raids seem to occur on some random channel though). I should also perhaps send you the names of the people of my own friends-list who still seem to be fairly active and are often responsive/willing to join you on most dungeon-runs/missions/quests/dailies.
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    In the meantime so you don't miss out on events come and hang out in Nao.
    I am refuse
    Helsa wrote: »
    When you have more than one server, one of them will always become the favourite. The favourite will grow while the others atrophy.

    The final merge is inevitable.
    Not necessarily. I have seen various games that just keep adding servers, and adding servers, and adding even more servers, and no one particular server is necessarily a favourite. The main difference is that those other game-titles have far more active advertisement going on (possibly outsourced to an advertising and/or marketing company to keep their game promoted constantly). You should also know by now that I do not believe in «mantra-repeating propaganda» (then again you probably actually do not know on second thought).
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    this time, a more proactive approach is needed.
    Limiting the action to AN approach is it ? Multiple approaches may be better and more effective...
    Oroshisama wrote: »
    They really just don't seem to care..
    Some of them probably don't... corporations typically consists of all kinds of different people after all. Not only that, from what information about it I have come across, none of the «original» staff-members are still part of Team-Mabinogi (thus, you could say, a «legacy» was passed on into the hands of a newer generation, but, whether they are capable of pulling as much weight as the previous generation, does not seem to be as likely given that their staff-size also seems to be much smaller than before).
    Why are we yet again repeating 2019?
    You won't learn.
    That is because none of us ever learn from history and therefore we are always repeating history ! :p
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Oroshisama wrote: »
    They really just don't seem to care..
    They do but they are not authorized to make that decision without the required data. They are not even allowed to discuss it AT ALL because of the unrest it generates. But don't be so pessimistic. When the data clearly shows the death of a server then action will be taken.
    Oh ? Which of them by the way ? And who[/] is this «head-honcho» responsible for allowing/dis-allowing decisions ? And how didst thou even obtain such «intel» about them, anyway!? O_O
    Julie wrote: »
    half of this here that you wrote is just pure projection, maybe it takes a little more than 5 afking players on channel 1 in dunbarton to convince you that Alexina has a population issue going on, maybe the 2 people and I that we bumped into talking about the population issue where we all come down to admit that Alexina is dying if not dead is a little overexaggerating for you.
    Considering that it seems like you return was seemingly more of a recent event, comparing the activities of a few years ago (unless it has already been a whole entire decade that we are trying to measure against) isn't going to give you the perspective as to just how «inactive/unpopulated» the server was from a couple or so years ago. Before that time, the server truly was what many would have considered a «dead» server, but, not long after I posted somewhere about advertising, the population did steadily increase, and, I can assure you, that far more «life» exists now on the server than there was from 2-3 years ago (unless there was a sharp decline over the last half-year or so ago [I did see announcements from Nexon-Mabi that they were going to «crack down on RMT» HARD and ban everyone's accounts, not very smart on the E-Q department by the way, which would definitely end up «killing» the population]).

    Speaking of the reference I made in parentheses, I used to play a really fun game with really cool staff-members, and they never «banned» any of their players, and were extremely successful in getting LOTS of players into that game for that type of game/genre. So, some of you might ask, if nobody was ever banned for bad/disruptive-behaviour, then how were «problem» players dealt with...? Well, they had some sort of «jailing» system, then they «released» their «offenders» after their «offenders» had «served time» (and the «count-down» for this would only «tick» whilst they were logged in). They had a pretty good system, with extremely skillful coders, and, I think they also must have given the «offenders» some sort of thorough «lecturing» whilst they were in the jail in order to «reform» them from not becoming repeat-offenders. I, personally, do not care whether someone does one thing or another that even may be against any so-called legal ToS/policy/EULA/etc., for as long as they are not interfering with nor ruining the fun of others, disturbing the peace of the land, etc. Anything goes, for as far as I am concerned, otherwise, yes, I would even allow «scripters» into any game that I make/create/develop/manage, because I am also «creative» enough to come up with creative «solutions» that would still make it so that the game would still be «fair and balanced» for everyone (not going over all of those details right now because it would be lengthy enough to be called «Intellectual-Property» and I don't care to get into any sort of «Mr. Intellectual Property Rights» legal-discussion right now). I also remember a time, when, something to do with so-called «modders» were also «cracked down upon» and must have resulted in a number of them having been banned en-masse, which I suspect also contributed to a mass-culling of the population;

    anyway, related, and, I used to work in tech-corporations myself, and, I know of course just how «authoritarian» the «security» guys can be (it's like literally straight out of «military» protocol what they do), but, hear me out here, although I had not modded myself, I do remember reading about how a number of players felt compelled to use «lag-fixing mods» because the game was essentially otherwise «unplayable» for them at all (this apparently had something to do with the font-rendering). All the «mod» for that particular case did was make it so that a different font was used in order for them to be able to DO anything without the extreme lag (they even went so far as to try to explain to Nexon that they [the so-called modders] had to go about «fixing the game» for them [for Nexon]). I assume that at least some level of «reverse-engineering» had to take place for this to be possible, but, like I have mentioned elsewhere in some form or another, not only are «tools» neither inherently so-called good nor so-called evil (and there were certainly «witch-hunting mentalities» projected out against those so-called modders), the «legalese» that you see in those contracts (typically called agreements to some ToS, CoC, EULA, ToC, etc.), are all still under the «jurisdiction» of a higher form-of-law known as the Karmic-Law (what could be considered a Spiritual-Law, Law of God, or even a very precise Quantum-Law), much of which revolves around «karmic» factors (and, so, if you use «rules» to be «unreasonable» against others or even make «unreasonable rules» upon others... then expect that such related «bad karma» will [eventually] come back to bite you).

    And, whether ironic or not, this company literally has a «product» with the word «KARMA» for part of its name (I seem to have had an influence in this coming about for some reason). So, I ask, did you ask people as to why they did what they did before «banning» them out-right ? Or were they just suddenly banned out-right ? See, when you don't even bother to communicate with your own community members, particularly if you cannot do so in a non-«authoritarian» fashion, what does that say about your general EQ ? (Not to be confused with IQ)
    The problem is that people have ridiculously high standards for a game that's existed for over a decade. It's not going to be like Fortnite or Animal Crossing. It's a relic; an antique. You appreciate relics for their history and the meaning of their existence and sometimes you can polish them to add some shine. Anything more breaks it. That's it.
    Not necessarily. Old classics can still be revived, come back, have re-makes, even be expanded. Consider, how certain animé-series have come out, and some of them even ended up with episodes that ended up into the triple-digits, and were still popular (some good examples : Fairy Tale, Black, Clover, that one animé about some dude who got re-incarnated into a slime whose isekai-world name becamem Rimuru Tempest, etc [oh, wait, that Slime one is actually still on-going, although it is not a triple-digits episodes animé, its popularity is still upper-tier]). Such titles could most-certainly make for an easy come-back IF for some reason they decided to either resume or come up with sequels (although, I suppose, for our mortal-minds, there's not really much left else to do once you can create/destroy whole entire universes as seems to be a theme with DBZ).

    Ninja-Gaiden was originally an 8-bit Nintendo-game, but, now there are 3-D versions of it on some of the newest home-gaming consoles, hardly an «old legacy» to merely be appreciated as a shelf-trophy (and let's not forget about the Final-Fantasy series games which have mostly be hugely successful during almost each and every single one of their releases and sequels and they still pump out different versions of Final-Fantasy even as of now).
    KelpSoda wrote: »
    woah julie threads never disappoint, looks like someone in this thread needs to touch grass lol
    Was that a metaphorical-reference to something like this...?
    tenor.gif
    Policroma wrote: »
    You guys want to see dead servers? Try to log into Everquest (1 or 2, doesn't matter.)

    Player shops. You know what killed these? Auction house. Which is probably why the devs were so paranoid of giving it to us for years on end. Probably because they expected threads exactly like this.

    There's still advantages to player shops. You can grab impulse buyers and window shoppers that don't know they want an item until they see it available. Which is why I occasionally do kiosks and player shops. And they still get plenty of traffic.
    Nobody in their right mind who values their time would play such an absurd time-sink-hole like EQ (and most of the people who did start playing that game were in their mid-twenties but have probably all become a bunch of cynical old geezers and/or cat-ladies by now).

    Yes, not only did the Auction-House mostly kill off player-shops, BUT, the «Housing Channel» is also now a GHOST-TOWN. One used to have a significant gold-earning advantage over other players if you had a house, but, now ? Get more gaming laptops instead and have any other spare-account you may have logged in and list all of your spare junk onto the Auction-House instead, updating the stock periodically, re-listing when any listing times expire, etc. Sure, one could just buy VIP for a couple of extra slots, well, blah, who am I kidding, let's just log in to go AFK.

    Kiosks & Player-Shops only really get traffic if set up at Dunbarton. Everywhere else is like advertising in the middle of a desert. Dost thou know about a key business-slogan for success ? : «...location, Location, LOCATION!!!»
    Helsa wrote: »
    The argument against Crimsy's suggestion is that: if not forced, Alexina's active population will keep declining organically anyway, making a final merge inevitable. So, by not forcing it on Nexon early, it gives them time to prepare. How Nexon can prepare has also been discussed, at length, on these forums. On the other hand, in the last two years, Nexon has shown no movement to address this. Maybe their approach is like a middling-grade high-schooler who leaves working on their homework to the night before. If so, then it will be just as painful regardless of when it happens so, as Crimsy suggests, it might as well be earlier since that gives the community more time together before the game, one day, eventually shuts down for good.
    The population is not actually declining (or at least it wasn't during the time that which I was active). And, no, I am not taking about a whole entire decade or other such long ago time, but, the more recent time, over the past couple of years ago.
    Policroma wrote: »
    The one real annoyance I have is botters, and I'm going to presume they are on all servers.
    I think you specifically mean the spamvertizement-bots. I don't have any big issue with so-called bots that are not interfering with my isekai-experience, like, for example, a time used to exist when there were these gem-collection bots, particularly down Erskey Falls, back when trying to obtain 5cm+ gems was extremely rare (talking like it took months before it was even possible for any regular manual-player to obtain such gems), and I had a lot of fun going down there gathering up and collecting all of those extra gems and unknown-ores that they left all over the ground (why let such precious resources go to waste after all ? That stuff would have just disappeared after that auto-disolve counter timed out anyway). This is of course before they decided to start «raining gems» down from the sky for what-ever reason (but, apparently, they did that because of the absurd number of gems that it now takes to feed & level-up spirit-weapons ? Not that Spirit-Weapons were of any practical-use until more-recent generations in comparison to some sort of Gacha-Weapon).
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Unfortunately I got a DT very soon. I'm grouchy and suffering atm. :(
    DT ? Not everybody knows what those acronyms are (and the only acronym that comes to mind would be considered «inappropriate» of the eroge-type).
    KelpSoda wrote: »
    dw you're not the thesaurus abuser that sounds like ben shapiro lol, your grass touching can wait fam
    I've heard of that guy, and, have even listened to some of his talks/interviews, but, I also hear that he's a... whoops... better not say something like that... lest it be considered anti-something or other things that I would certainly not be intending.
    I blame Tarlach.
    It's Tarlach's fault ! Wait... what did Tarlach do again ? O_O
This discussion has been closed.