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Closed

Stricter Blacklisting and changes to this function

SamuelalexSamuelalex
Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
Posts: 430
Member
edited September 24, 2017 in Feedback and Suggestions
I am suggesting some changed be made to the blacklisting function in light of recent events that have happened to me. Some of the changes that I think would be beneficial to the community include:

- Blacklist as a separate list from the friend list allowing for more people to be added as friends and not have blacklisted people count toward the max total of friends allowed. Blacklisted people should be treated differently than people on friend list.
- Blacklisted person is not able to send any forum of communication to the person who blacklisted them including, PM, Notes, Mail (using mailbox), and of course talk to them through the game chat ie public chat or private (whisper) systems. Blacklisting essentially ends all forms of communication with the person.
- Blacklisted persons can not be added to group conversations (PMs with more than two people present) with a person participating that has them on their blacklist. Attempting to add a blacklisted person to the conversation would trigger an error "this person can not join this conversation." and then close out of the message. A notice would then be sent to the window that the person attempted to join the chat but was blocked from doing so.
( This may need modication to be fair towards the person blacklisting and the mutual person caught in between. I have been wary of group chats and immediately close any containing blacklisted people as a way to get around is.)
- Blacklisting a person would automatically hide you from the person so that the can not contact you in any forum. Right now blacklisting only hides the offender however the offender is still able to see the person that blacklisted them which should be changed so that the offender is not able to see the person who has blacklisted them.
- If you blacklist someone it makes you always appear offline to them with no information available (such as channel location, status message, online status)
-If a person is blacklisted, particles and sound effects around said are invisible and mute. (Suggested by Sherri)
- Blacklisting someone hides effects (sounds and visual) tied to skills they use such as hydra, golem, and puppets. (Suggested by Sphere)

More complicated:
(Suggestion about guild blacklisting was removed as a different method to handle this was suggested for me to use instead).

If you can think of anything else that maybe helpful to improve the function of blacklisting offending players please add here. I know not all of these things maybe considered and some maybe too complicated, but the way the blacklist is now it doesn't help much other that making the offender invisible to the player.

IGN: Samuelaex
Server: Mari
SherriSphyra21NegumikoKirara01RosepivotalSylviaWolfeFweepshintaroshy64ArcticKingBeliahand 5 others.

Comments

  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,500
    Posts: 2,609
    Member
    The current blacklist system is just sad, it really does need the updates to it. My friend and me have ran into a lot of jerks and blacklisting doesn't always help. I definitely support this!
    Also another Blacklist idea;

    -If a person is blacklisted, particles and sound effects around said are invisible and mute.

    I've noticed that even if I blacklist, there are still some ways to see their effects/particles, an example being Fantastic Chorus' circle.
    Sound effects from their skills are also heard, being from ninja sound effects, cheering from some sort of music skill, etc.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    I will add that to the list and credit you for the suggestion ^^ Thank you for your support.
    Sherri
  • SphereSphere
    Mabinogi Rep: 900
    Posts: 50
    Member
    How about blacklisted people don't show their puppet, golem, or hydra skill. One of the things that has been done in past is to dump these things onto the person they are harassing, and the victim can do nothing about it but be chased away, or just put up with it.
    Sherri
  • BerylBeryl
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,750
    Posts: 104
    Member
    Samuelalex wrote: »
    - Blacklist as a separate list from the friend list allowing for more people to be added as friends and not have blacklisted people count toward the max total of friends allowed. Blacklisted people should be treated differently than people on friend list.
    - Blacklisted person is not able to send any forum of communication to the person who blacklisted them including, PM, Notes, Mail (using mailbox), and of course talk to them through the game chat ie public chat or private (whisper) systems. Blacklisting essentially ends all forms of communication with the person.

    - If you blacklist someone it makes you always appear offline to them with no information available (such as channel location, status message, online status)
    -If a person is blacklisted, particles and sound effects around said are invisible and mute. (Suggested by Sherri)

    These make perfect sense and I support them. The other suggestions are overreaching, especially:
    Samuelalex wrote: »
    - If a leader of a guild blacklists someone it prevents the offender from seeing any members of the guild for which the leader owns. This is to prevent the offender from bothering close friends in retaliation.

    No one, guild leader or whoever, should decide for you whom you get to interact with and who gets to interact with you.
    SherriNasumiRayneAlmostNotsuperMiruhaPolicroma
  • LeiliciaLeilicia
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 313
    Member
    No one, guild leader or whoever, should decide for you whom you get to interact with and who gets to interact with you.[/quote]

    I feel like the poster mentioned that one because what if the guild leader blacklisted someone who was harassing him and has harassed others? I can see why this would be a neat thing to have, but I also see your viewpoint. I feel like there should be an option that pops up when a guild leader blacklists someone. I feel like the leader should have a box that explains to their guildies on why that person was blacklisted, and it gives the guildies the option to also do it or to not. But, ofc, that's prolly too complicated for Nexon to code.

  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,900
    Posts: 2,553
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    The only thing wrong with the current blacklist system is people can message you. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it. -- People are overlooking a very basic fact of life, it takes more than one person to argue ... you can't do it alone. If you're not looking for trouble or literally trying to exacerbate a pre-existing issue, nothing else should be needed. -- It's not as though anyone is forcing you to play .. or preventing you from logging out. ~ -- my two cents
  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,215
    Posts: 319
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    The only thing wrong with the current blacklist system is people can message you. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it. -- People are overlooking a very basic fact of life, it takes more than one person to argue ... you can't do it alone. If you're not looking for trouble or literally trying to exacerbate a pre-existing issue, nothing else should be needed. -- It's not as though anyone is forcing you to play .. or preventing you from logging out. ~ -- my two cents

    Can't blacklisted people still mail you stuff, too?
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    I will add to the guild leader part to give a reason for person being blacklisted and give people option to also blacklist and ignore. The reason I added this Is because I am being harassed by certain individuals that do not understand the words leave me and my guild members alone after poaching my guild of nearly 20 members. I do not want these people contacting any of my guildmmates anymore because they will be subjected to the same abuse I was by them. I hope this will protect people and those close to them from being subjected to that kind of behavior.

    There is actually plenty wrong with the blacklisting system. The blacklisting is currently one sided and only makes the offender invisible however they are still able to see you and you do not know what they maybe saying or doing. This is actually backwards and when you block someone it should make you invisible to them including showing you as offline and not allowing them to see things like channel location and status messages.

    In addition the blacklisted person is allowed to join group conversations with mutual friends such that person A has person B blacklisted however both know person C so person C is able to add both A and B into the same window with them. This should not be allowed and give error stating something about the person trying to join is blacklisted and prevent them from being in the window.

    Another issue I encountered is blacklisted people are able to send notes and also mail to people despite being blacklisted by them. This needs to be addressed to prevent them from using such means to further cause problems for people.

    The reason I raise these concerns is because of Cyber Bulling and cases of harassment that are damaging to the community. The blacklist is one of the few methods of removing such people and preventing them from causing more problems. We need this system to take a more proactive approach to protect players and prevent further issues with people who are put on the blacklist.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    Sphere wrote: »
    How about blacklisted people don't show their puppet, golem, or hydra skill. One of the things that has been done in past is to dump these things onto the person they are harassing, and the victim can do nothing about it but be chased away, or just put up with it.

    I agree with you on this and will add this to the suggestions crediting you. i know this has happened to me at the banquet many times with people using golems to make loud obnoxious noises which seem to linger after the owner is blacklisted.
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    Thread has been updated to include Sphere's suggestion as well as the suggestion related to guild leaders blocking others has been modified per suggestion of Beryl and Leilicia. Thank you for your support and comments.
  • BerrySwirlBerrySwirl
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,885
    Posts: 780
    Member
    Support.

    Much needed.

    Nexon please.
    SylviaWolfeSherri
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    Thank you for your support. Hopefully we can get enough people supporting this to help make the game a safer place for everyone.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,900
    Posts: 2,553
    Member
    edited March 2, 2017
    Threads like this make me wonder how people survived before the internet; how they dealt with real physical bullies when they couldn't pass the blame to some random developer. While certain features do need to be addressed, fixed, or tweaked; it is highly imperative that you fully understand the need for such a feature solely depends on your own ability (or lack of an ability) to manually ignore people when they bother you. This should not be looked at as a way to have your cake and eat it too. When you block someone; you don't get to continue talking about them. They don't become your play thing. What I mean by that is when you block someone you need to make a real true effort to ignore them afterwards and don't continue looking for ways to carry on with your debate. (Don't use the blacklist feature as a harassment tool).
  • MediaKleptoMediaKlepto
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,865
    Posts: 186
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    Supported 100%. The current system is still treating people on my blacklist like they're my friends, telling me when they login and what channel they're on. Is this person I'm no longer interested in contact with still being notified of my presence as well??
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    When you block someone; you don't get to continue talking about them. They don't become your play thing. What I mean by that is when you block someone you need to make a real true effort to ignore them afterwards and don't continue looking for ways to carry on with your debate. (Don't use the blacklist feature as a harassment tool).
    But we're to be subjected to that exact treatment because we no longer can see them, but they can see us and carry on about us without our knowledge? I can't count how many times I or my friends have blacklisted/blocked someone only to have them continue to spam me with mails or notes just to be belligerent, and not replying simply doesn't stop them. That kind of behavior is disruptive and often times destructive, and reporting them every time brings little to no relief. Add to that the group chat workaround and that they can spam you with skills and what really good is ignoring them and trying to distance yourself when you simply are not given the option to? You can walk away from people irl, sometimes that isn't the case in a game where you can be chased down with no policing to protect you.

    As antiquated as it is (I say that the Mabi players of all people) RuneScape's blacklist works like a charm and includes almost everything everyone is requesting here, sans the guild leader suggestion. If Jagex managed it years ago, what's to stop Nexon, really?
    BerrySwirlNegumiko
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,900
    Posts: 2,553
    Member
    edited March 2, 2017
    Supported 100%. The current system is still treating people on my blacklist like they're my friends, telling me when they login and what channel they're on. Is this person I'm no longer interested in contact with still being notified of my presence as well??
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    When you block someone; you don't get to continue talking about them. They don't become your play thing. What I mean by that is when you block someone you need to make a real true effort to ignore them afterwards and don't continue looking for ways to carry on with your debate. (Don't use the blacklist feature as a harassment tool).
    But we're to be subjected to that exact treatment because we no longer can see them, but they can see us and carry on about us without our knowledge? I can't count how many times I or my friends have blacklisted/blocked someone only to have them continue to spam me with mails or notes just to be belligerent, and not replying simply doesn't stop them. That kind of behavior is disruptive and often times destructive, and reporting them every time brings little to no relief. Add to that the group chat workaround and that they can spam you with skills and what really good is ignoring them and trying to distance yourself when you simply are not given the option to? You can walk away from people irl, sometimes that isn't the case in a game where you can be chased down with no policing to protect you.

    As antiquated as it is (I say that the Mabi players of all people) RuneScape's blacklist works like a charm and includes almost everything everyone is requesting here, sans the guild leader suggestion. If Jagex managed it years ago, what's to stop Nexon, really?

    Where did I say that? All I am saying is that it goes both ways. It always has and it always will. If the person doing the blocking is also behaving a bully, the problem will not be solved, because the problem is them.

  • MediaKleptoMediaKlepto
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,865
    Posts: 186
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    I'm definitely not coming from the standpoint of wanting to continue that arguing or the malicious intent, simply from the direction that if a player is "blocked" then they should be BLOCKED, not simply free to stalk you where they can see you but you can't see them. As far as that goes, I've got at least 2 people on my friends list blacklist AND in my options menu blacklist which I CAN in fact still see and interact with despite removing and readding them multiple times. They show me login notices as well even though one of them was never even on my friends list initally, through various client restarts and relogs and across channels. I've been chased out of banquet because I simply can't be rid of them, and trying in vain to ignore them in a closed area where I for all rights should be able to enjoy the game with my friends is unsettling.

    I do understand your standpoint of not harassing them via other means (guild leaders displaying their names to their guilds being a step too far in my opinion, as such, since it breeds more malcontent than may otherwise be necessary), such as actually posting their names directly to the forums for the sake of reporting on them to others or making things difficult for them. Stooping to their level won't solve anything, but at least being able to remove yourself from the situation in a more appropriate and effective manner would be beneficial to everyone and the community as a whole.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
    Posts: 1,701
    Member
    Beryl wrote: »
    Samuelalex wrote: »
    - Blacklist as a separate list from the friend list allowing for more people to be added as friends and not have blacklisted people count toward the max total of friends allowed. Blacklisted people should be treated differently than people on friend list.
    - Blacklisted person is not able to send any forum of communication to the person who blacklisted them including, PM, Notes, Mail (using mailbox), and of course talk to them through the game chat ie public chat or private (whisper) systems. Blacklisting essentially ends all forms of communication with the person.

    - If you blacklist someone it makes you always appear offline to them with no information available (such as channel location, status message, online status)
    -If a person is blacklisted, particles and sound effects around said are invisible and mute. (Suggested by Sherri)

    These make perfect sense and I support them. The other suggestions are overreaching, especially:
    Samuelalex wrote: »
    - If a leader of a guild blacklists someone it prevents the offender from seeing any members of the guild for which the leader owns. This is to prevent the offender from bothering close friends in retaliation.

    No one, guild leader or whoever, should decide for you whom you get to interact with and who gets to interact with you.

    There has been some strange drama in the past when I was in a more hyper active guild for a few years in a row, and I have to say if the player acts strange or rudely to one member, I might understand why some guild leaders might not want their own members to see that player.
    Greta
  • CarlizeCarlize
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,830
    Posts: 190
    Member
    I agree that most of these should definitely be fixed, but not the guild leader part. If they want to disclose what happened to their members, and then have those members take it upon themselves to decide whether they want to interact with that person or not, then that's one thing. A guild leader is nothing more than someone willing to pay for VIP each month and sometimes try to corral a group of people. They are human like everyone else, and may hold grudges or have opinions of people that others don't have. Just because you're in the same guild doesn't mean you need to agree with the leader, and making something like a notification whenever the leader blocks someone is going to make witch hunts even more feasible with how much of a herd mentality quite a few people have.
    AlmostNotsuperNekoLily
  • SamuelalexSamuelalex
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,350
    Posts: 430
    Member
    The reasonI bring up the suggestion about guild leaders noticing their members of blacklisted people is because for the past 2 months I have been stalked and harassed by a partIcular guild run by a disgrunted exmember of mine who is upset that they did not get control over the guild. As revenge they are pming my guild members to make them quit and be with this guild that opening participates in stalking and harassment of me and the few people I have left. I am trying to recruit new people to replace the ones who left however this guild is approaching my recuits and bribing them with gifts to convince them to leave. This constitutes stalking in my eyes and I would like a way to notify new members of what happened so they can avoid said harassing individuals that intend to damage me and my guild further. In the past these people have used mutual friends to bypass blacklisting and continue harassment in group windows so therefor there needs to be a way to alert people so they are not subjected to the same abusive behavior these people represent against me personally.
    GretaSherriNegumiko
  • PepperPepper
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 89
    Member
    Samuelalex wrote: »
    I am suggesting some changed be made to the blacklisting function in light of recent events that have happened to me. Some of the changes that I think would be beneficial to the community include:

    - Blacklist as a separate list from the friend list allowing for more people to be added as friends and not have blacklisted people count toward the max total of friends allowed. Blacklisted people should be treated differently than people on friend list.
    - Blacklisted person is not able to send any forum of communication to the person who blacklisted them including, PM, Notes, Mail (using mailbox), and of course talk to them through the game chat ie public chat or private (whisper) systems. Blacklisting essentially ends all forms of communication with the person.
    - Blacklisted persons can not be added to group conversations (PMs with more than two people present) with a person participating that has them on their blacklist. Attempting to add a blacklisted person to the conversation would trigger an error "this person can not join this conversation." and then close out of the message. A notice would then be sent to the window that the person attempted to join the chat but was blocked from doing so.
    - Blacklisting a person would automatically hide you from the person so that the can not contact you in any forum. Right now blacklisting only hides the offender however the offender is still able to see the person that blacklisted them which should be changed so that the offender is not able to see the person who has blacklisted them.
    - If you blacklist someone it makes you always appear offline to them with no information available (such as channel location, status message, online status)
    -If a person is blacklisted, particles and sound effects around said are invisible and mute. (Suggested by Sherri)
    - Blacklisting someone hides effects (sounds and visual) tied to skills they use such as hydra, golem, and puppets. (Suggested by Sphere)

    More complicated:
    - If a leader of a guild blacklists someone it will popup a notice to guildmembers informing them of the reason why the person was blacklisted and ask if they also would like to blacklist the individual. The person would be given option to accept and blacklist also or ignore the message and not add them. (Suggestion modified due to suggestions by Beryl and Leilicia)

    If you can think of anything else that maybe helpful to improve the function of blacklisting offending players please add here. I know not all of these things maybe considered and some maybe too complicated, but the way the blacklist is now it doesn't help much other that making the offender invisible to the player.

    IGN: Samuelaex
    Server: Mari
    I dont think the part of them being blacklisted from public chat is right. Just because you have had a falling out with that particular player doesn t mean other people don t want to talk with them. Blacklisting them from personl stuff is a good idea.

This discussion has been closed.