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The Skill Revamp Poll

Comments

  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,370
    Posts: 443
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    Uncap campfire, composing, cooking, evasion, first aid, mana shield, meditation, musical knowledge and rest. IMO These skills should have been uncapped at their respective renovation updates, though cooking would be an exception because of the need to add content when the focus was to change. Either way, skills from the games conception are still capped and that fact alone seriously bugs me.

    since when that skill can't reach rank 1?
    unless you refer to mastery (like wine making)
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,660
    Posts: 1,704
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    edited March 28, 2017
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    Thanks for all the votes guys! Now it's time for the feedback and suggestion part!

    Q1: If you picked Life Skills (New Caps/ the addition of more recipes and/or methods.), then which life skill(s) did you decide needs the most attention? Why?
    Q2:How might Nexon be able to improve on the interactivity of life skills?
    Q3: If you picked Combat, then which skill(s) did you decide on and why?
    Q4:If you picked Magic (No new skills, just adjustments and/or new caps), then which skill(s) did you decide on and why? Why did the previous magic revamp feel like a second one was needed?
    Q5:If you picked, Alchemy then which skill(s) would you recommend upgrading? Does Alchemy need a new skill(s) to make it seem more balanced? If not, then why did you recommend what you did?
    Q6:If you picked Fighter, were you hoping for a better combo system, or different and more balanced skill(s)?
    Q7: If you picked Music, which book method(s) do you think need adjustments and why? What part of the Music Q Revamp felt like music was still in need of a Revamp to you? Which skill would you prefer to be updated first, and why?
    Q8:If you picked Puppetry, then why? Do the skills feel balanced or off balance to you? Does it just feel like something more could be done with Puppetry?
    Q9: If you picked Dual Gun, can you explain which skill(s) need more attention and why?
    Q10:If you picked Ninja, can you explain which skill(s) need more attention and why? Are you curious for the Ninja revamp heading our way from KR?
    Q11:If you picked Hidden, then why?
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
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    Q1: If you picked Life Skills (New Caps/ the addition of more recipes and/or methods.), then which life skill(s) did you decide needs the most attention? Why?

    While pretty much all life skills need attention, I think I would be happy if we at least had the existence of rank 1 Rest after all of these years.
    Darkpixie99
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
    Member
    Q2: Improving the interactivity of life skills is tricky here. I can think of two ways to give players more incentive to work on them though. 1.Make them more useful throughout the game - currently they're only useful at endgame, if even there, so people only rank them for stats. While I'm sure that won't change (I can't really think of any reasonable way to do so, except for the suggestion in #2), it would at least be nice if they'd release more craftable items that don't require the entire server to create (as seems to be the recent trend), and then DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES release them in gachas. Another part of this is just making sure more types of gear are actually useful. 2.Something like the renown system, which gives players perks or rewards through certain NPCs associated with life skills. Just, you know, don't give people the world for nothing, which is what the current renown system does. Heck, while you're at it, might as well expand the PTJ and NPC intimacy systems (somehow).

    Q3+4: I think the best way to restore balance to this game (for now), is to redefine the defensive elements. Do this right, and the races all become equally viable, players and monsters will be more equal, a greater variety of equipment becomes useful, support roles become more useful, and you might even breathe some life back into PvP at large. A good start would be making magic def/prot more important, as well as prot/injury.

    Q5:I'm no alchemist, but I don't think alchemy needs new skills. The existing ones need buffs. I think it'd be cool if Elemental Wave could be revamped somehow, so that it offers different 'flavors' of golem instead of (or in addition to) the Shadow Golem, and maybe buffed versions of flame burst, water cannon, wind blast and sand burst, at the cost of the single corresponding marble, or a portion of it.

    Q6:Meh. It's pretty clear at this point that fighter was just a kind of add-on talent. You can throw in fighter combos with your archery/magic/close combat to avoid getting hit or to deal some quick damage. Obviously, players want it to be more than this - every skill tab has to be a standalone fighting style now. I guess the only solution, if this really must be addressed, is to add a new combo chain, or improve the chain system/chain skill cooldowns so skills can be re-used more quickly, or both. Or, if you just look at fighter as an extention of close combat, you could just buff chain skill damage, and maybe speed up the animations so they're easier to pull off, but I doubt that's the kind of fix most players are looking for.

    Q7:Music needs a huge nerfbuff. Bard should be a viable role in party play, sure, but these insta-buffs, which just anyone can pull out at any time, are a bit much. I think any effects that can be instantly bestowed on the party should be nerfed, but effects should be added that have to be maintained, and these should be better than whatever we have now, in order to be worth maintaining. As I recall, someone with a similar name to mine made a pretty neat suggestion thread for balancing this, in the old forums...

    Also, Battle Dance needs to be deleted before it gets to NA.

    Sorry for dumping this entire thing here. I never actually voted on the poll (I might do it now, but I hate having to choose a single option); I just wanted to respond to this post.

    Also, where's archery? o3o
    Darkpixie99
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
    Posts: 8,867
    Member
    edited March 28, 2017
    I really wish cooking had a use for fan mussels, a better use for unused jam, more recepies, more cooking methods. the ability to use cooking on an interactive object when Homestead Housing arrives, and just ditch the books from the Iron Pot. Cooking should be an experience, and not a chore to learn. We have all these talented chef NPCs who could teach us so much and provide even more background lore. I feel that old blacksmithing recipes we no longer see should be sold by a new NPC or earned in Festia. I feel that handicraft was neglected in the homestead system, and should be used to craft furniture and decals for the Homestead interior. I feel that Shock, Fire Ball, Ice Spear, and Thunder may be too confusing or complex for a newbie to learn through page gathering. Perhaps we could change the way you keep track of each page, or have it be learned in some other way such as completing an RP mission or puzzle. Transformation Mastery is still difficult for the average player to master, maybe the permanent return of the Shamala Gachapon at a raised price could smooth things over. Composing and Musical Knowledge still need their cap, and again the book method can be too complex, especially if you have to gather bottles from Gachapons no longer in circulation. Perhaps we could do another RP mission with these instead. The race exclusive skills have been talked about as too OP or underpowered, so I won't be touching base with those combat skills. However, archery can indeed be better improved both accuracy and damage wise.

    What.
  • NeynaNeyna
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,040
    Posts: 1,239
    Member
    Me and fighters :c

    Q6:If you picked Fighter, were you hoping for a better combo system, or different and more balanced skill(s)?
    I would say maybe a new 3 chain combo, or 2nd and third after counter punch since we have 3x 1st chain, 2x of 2nd and 3rd. Or just add a 4th OP combo what would deal a massive and AOE damage.

    Either that or reduce cool down of the skills/fix that bug where you have to wait for cool down when someone counters (when you didn't even use/fail to use the skill on them).

    Fighter is really glitchy from what I have seen which I think they need to fix first.. If it's something they can't do, then giving us more chain damage,lower the cool down or a new OP skill is preferred.

    I don't want fighter to be used only in PvP.. or have to rely on fighter/mage combo (with merlins) in missions for most people.
    Can't fighter stand out on its own like other talents?
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,660
    Posts: 1,704
    Member
    edited March 28, 2017
    Gaea wrote: »
    Homestead Housing
    What.

    You know, that brick of a decoration in your homestead? The thing that could have had a new system that made Mabinogi as immersive in house decorating as WildStar. Unfortunately, I have never seen a KR dev interview mention that their attention was on how the homestead system could be improved, let alone an interior addition. Rather, it seems like it's on skills and racial balancing with a drawing board for spirit weapons.

    @AlmostNotsuper
    I kinda forgot about Archery, since I thought that the KR community thought that Archery should be balanced last, since they are rather skilled and have better ping than we do for it. Also, I saw the Giant revamp with new and balanced skills, so I assumed that Elves would be next to hit the KR test server and anything we might have to say would either be covered on the dev's drawing board...or we'd get off on a lore war tangent.
  • ShannarasShannaras
    Mabinogi Rep: 810
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Personly i think they need to Work on the races like i get the elfs cant just 2 handet weapons and might do less dames in closcombat but fighter i dont get, atlest not 20%, sins martiel artes are speed and pricien more then strereng, and if elfs are the masters off bows then why cant they get arrow rewolver whits probely is the best bow skill in the game.
  • lidiyalidiya
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,325
    Posts: 335
    Member
    edited March 29, 2017
    Q2: Improving the interactivity of life skills is tricky here. I can think of two ways to give players more incentive to work on them though. 1.Make them more useful throughout the game - currently they're only useful at endgame, if even there, so people only rank them for stats. While I'm sure that won't change (I can't really think of any reasonable way to do so, except for the suggestion in #2), it would at least be nice if they'd release more craftable items that don't require the entire server to create (as seems to be the recent trend), and then DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES release them in gachas. Another part of this is just making sure more types of gear are actually useful. 2.Something like the renown system, which gives players perks or rewards through certain NPCs associated with life skills. Just, you know, don't give people the world for nothing, which is what the current renown system does. Heck, while you're at it, might as well expand the PTJ and NPC intimacy systems (somehow).

    This is so true
    Honestly crafting skills in this game are a joke, and the worst out of any game I've personally played. The entire crafting system needs a revamp from recipes, item drop rates, percentage chance (seriously at R1 you shouldn't fail making ANYTHING), down to the mediocre UI, and stupid finishing minigames.
    Most MMO's I gravitated to crafting as you could make useful items, or unique items for the time you spent to sell in reasonable time. In mabi anything you can craft is obsolete, or if it is new will become obsolete before you can gather the mats with the insanely low drop chance before a perfect version is released in the gachas. For example I ran that stupid music dungeon for 8 hours, and still need 3 items for one of the milky way instruments (I gave up). Or even the Phine armor... the mat cost is pretty nuts. I've made legendary gear in WoW in a quarter of the time it takes to get 1 of multiple mats for normal gear in mabi.

    I do remember a time though before gachas when all the gear was craftable, and people actually could make some serious gold selling stuff they made.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,660
    Posts: 1,704
    Member
    edited March 31, 2017
    lidiya wrote: »
    Q2: Improving the interactivity of life skills is tricky here. I can think of two ways to give players more incentive to work on them though. 1.Make them more useful throughout the game - currently they're only useful at endgame, if even there, so people only rank them for stats. While I'm sure that won't change (I can't really think of any reasonable way to do so, except for the suggestion in #2), it would at least be nice if they'd release more craftable items that don't require the entire server to create (as seems to be the recent trend), and then DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES release them in gachas. Another part of this is just making sure more types of gear are actually useful. 2.Something like the renown system, which gives players perks or rewards through certain NPCs associated with life skills. Just, you know, don't give people the world for nothing, which is what the current renown system does. Heck, while you're at it, might as well expand the PTJ and NPC intimacy systems (somehow).

    This is so true
    Honestly crafting skills in this game are a joke, and the worst out of any game I've personally played. The entire crafting system needs a revamp from recipes, item drop rates, percentage chance (seriously at R1 you shouldn't fail making ANYTHING), down to the mediocre UI, and stupid finishing minigames.
    Most MMO's I gravitated to crafting as you could make useful items, or unique items for the time you spent to sell in reasonable time. In mabi anything you can craft is obsolete, or if it is new will become obsolete before you can gather the mats with the insanely low drop chance before a perfect version is released in the gachas. For example I ran that stupid music dungeon for 8 hours, and still need 3 items for one of the milky way instruments (I gave up). Or even the Phine armor... the mat cost is pretty nuts. I've made legendary gear in WoW in a quarter of the time it takes to get 1 of multiple mats for normal gear in mabi.

    I do remember a time though before gachas when all the gear was craftable, and people actually could make some serious gold selling stuff they made.

    Yes, even back in the day there was the production Gachapon, where unfortunately exclusive tailoring and blacksmithing recipes have gone and no longer resurfaced. Korea seems to be in a tizzy about some sort of kits being released causing the production players to lose their gold income and ruin the marketplace. I suppose rather than placing materials and recipes in more gachapons, it would be best if we asked KR devcat if it would be possible to add in a new zone. Now, this is just an idea, but this new zone could be a new area within or outside a currently existing place. Plus, it's not just filled with the usual NPCs, these ones are the ones reponsible for sending you out into a new production focused dungeon to get your new skill ranks. Every NPC can also give you Renown just for crafting or gathering in this new zone. The issue of herb spawns being hoarded can be solved by a new housing item, an herb plot for growing herbs that you can gather with Herb Gathering. Any and all herbs can be planted here as if it were in a dungeon, yet these herbs take time to grow, much like homestead seeds. (For example, Kat sends you out to collect items from the new monsters in the dungeon, you return to the NPC and she gives you the next quest for how to rank up Rest. Kat also gives you 10 Renown for each item gathered by Ingredient Gathering and 20 Renown for every Base Herb Gathered.) Now, let's say they revamp the production skills to allow a Dan 1+ finishing without minigames as well as a chance for an increase in the production's values (stats) to rise. Naturally, being able to craft higher durability or damage wise items means that gachapon items will be the standard craft rate, and lower in value in the market. This would fix the issues production players have with not having any place in the market. This is all my 10 cents on how production skills can be improved a little, but it's more within the fault of the system that oh so restricts Nexon so much in improving the value and effort of Life Skills. I haven't yet thought of a way that Blacksmithing could become more interactive, but it's starting to look like adding in a new zone similar to Festia may be what Production players need to get more enjoyment out of it. Although to be fair, WoW is mostly grinding...all day, so we can't really compare it to Mabinogi to actually improve the way production skills are used within the system.

    This brings us back to how crafting can actually be revamped, and devcat just is all tunnel vision into balancing the racial differences right now that it may be difficult to ask the KR devs about the statistical side of how Life Skills can better be improved on. Not only are life skills the life blood of casual gamers, they're what keep good gear on the market. Now, currently players are upset that this isn't the case, due to that gachapons mass release these same hard crafted goods, making life skills a tedious grind and an empty feeling that the player is being punished for not being able to make a profit with a combat talent and that gachapons make life skills worthless.

    So, let's examine the Production skills and current effects:

    Tailoring: Currently at Rank1, the most you'll get out of a craft is an extra durability to your success.
    Most Common Player Suggested Improvements: Removal of finishing mini games, additional % to success chance
    My Suggestions:A new Hidden Skill, 'Magic Thread' Allows the user to control their flow of mana, inserting a magical effect into the garment. (The effect is similar to Reforge or how a Composed Music Score gains a small buff, but gives up to a large buff seen on Catering.)

    Blacksmithing: At Rank1 currently only raises duarbility and Balance, production players are deeply offended by Gachapon releases of thier hard crafted weapons
    Most Commonly Suggested By Players: Removal of finishing mini games, additional % to success chance
    My Suggestions: A new Hidden Skill, 'Rune Insertion' as well as new items that only Blacksmiths can craft. Gachapons releasing these handmade items would just be silly, as the effects are about to be stated. Rune Insertion allows a Blacksmith player to insert a rune into sockets in any weapon, the only way a player can retrieve or insert a high ranked rune without durability loss of the weapon is to utilize the Campfire Burn and select 'Blacksmith's Rune Insertion.' Naturally, any player can insert or retrieve their own runes if they rank up high enough. Runes can only be crafted through blacksmithing, and the rank of your Enchant and Refining will effect the Rune Status/Buff Pool and increase in Rune Level respectively.

    Cooking: Currently uncapped, gaps in ingredient drops to actual used ingredients ratio
    My Suggestions: Hire a professional chef to give you advice on real life dishes, and use their advice to invent new recipes utilizing unused ingredients. Host events within the player community to invent a Mabinogi inspired recipe, and use that as your new dishes. Get innovative, cooking shouldn't be a hard system to be creative and get inventive in. Hire an entirely new team for this if you have to, or just make a select few artists and programmers responsible for this. It was all supposed to be completed by the last cooking revamp, what's your excuse for not having it done?

    Wine Making: No actual use as a passive skill, far too easy to master, the most unrewarding skill in the history of Mabinogi Life Skills
    My Suggestion: Go out to a wine tasting, do whatever needs to be done to spur those creative minds and invent a use for player made wine in Mabinogi.