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More magic variants?

PupspiderPupspider
Mabinogi Rep: 400
Posts: 2
Member
edited April 17, 2017 in General Chat
Like Dark, Light, maybe some others you could make up along the way. I know that skill ideas are hard to balance out, but it seems like it'd be solid to add light and dark mage skills. Albeit, that doesn't mean you shouldn't add more skills for warrior/archery. Add skills for them too, if you got any ideas for them.

Edit: Okay, I do realize that demigod skills can be considered "light and dark". I was more so talking about spells that don't take special abilities to use.

Thanks for reading my probably sub-par if not mediocre idea.
  1. What do you think of this idea?49 votes
    1. Yep.
       29% (14 votes)
    2. Nope.
       20% (10 votes)
    3. Maybe.
       16% (8 votes)
    4. They probably won't add it.
       31% (15 votes)
    5. They might've already thought of that.
       4% (2 votes)

Comments

  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
    Posts: 2,440
    Member
    I would like them to maybe tackle Wind and Earth-based spells too. Dark and Light spells could qualify as advanced like Hail Storm, or could potentially only be learned when you hit a talent requirement.
  • FeliceFelice
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,790
    Posts: 98
    Member
    I'd love to see proper Wind and Earth Elemental Magics in tiers like we have with Fire/Ice/Lightning already. Wind could focus on Knock-back, or even non-elemental magic based damage. Earth would be proper defensive or a more powerful single target strike.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,210
    Posts: 8,868
    Member
    Ack! I just posted a suggestion thread saying we should add Necromancer talent. There's your dark. ^_^
    FoolieCoole
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
    Member
    It's a no for me. I know people want more variety in magic, but I think it'd be difficult to do such a thing without A.making magic skills seem cheap or B.making magic so OP and versatile that there's little point in using archery anything else (it's already kind of like that though). In a game like Mabinogi, wherein you aren't locked into any class (although you have to pay to unlock archery's full potential), it's very important that no two skills (or at least not much more than two =T) do the same thing the same way, even if one outclasses the other (especially if one outclasses the other). Even if you don't care that multiple 'classes' can do the same thing, there are only so many ways you can reskin a skill and have it be interesting.

    However, I do think it'd be neat if there were more types of magic, light and dark themed in particular. I'm just not sure they should be generic magic skills. I'd like to see them either as separate skillsets, or as accessory skills. I know some people have proposed necromancer type talents multiple times in the past, so I'm sure people would be eager to see something like that. I've been thinking it be neat (and potentially simpler) to make summoner skills, based on the magic used in fomor scrolls (maybe give us more details about the fomors in the process). I also thought battle mage skills would be kind of cool: more stuff like blaze, and that could be light themed. It could be inspired by the shamans, maybe we could learn it from them. I was actually going to make a UGC thread for this back when that was a thing, but I gave up because too much work for no reason.

    Going back to what I said in the first paragraph, I personally believe that any new skills should be made with a unique purpose in mind, and any talent should be made with a 'flow' in mind (the skills need to work together somehow). This is kind of difficult, especially in the case of Necromancer type stuff, which people always want to feature some type of minions. It's kind of a pain to make a minion type thing that's sufficiently different from golems, puppets and pets. And then there's the problem of deciding how they should be controlled, if they can be controlled. And if they don't have to be controlled, what's limiting the player? (Most likely, it's just be the fact that the summons get in the way more than they actually help, thanks to bad AI). The battle mage thing is a little simpler since there are no minions involved, but there's still the question of how to make it good without having it replace close combat entirely (this was before bash was a thing, so close combat was pretty lackluster aside from lances).

    Now I think adding battle mage skills as an exclusive supplement to fighter would be a good way to make it worthwhile again. Maybe they could release more magical knuckles too. The summoner thing I mentioned is pretty much a simplification of some of the necromancer suggestions I've seen. Instead of any actual minions, I'm thinking it would be better to summon an intangible helper (kind of like support dolls or mercenary scrolls) which only performs a single function for the duration of its summons (maybe knocking enemies back, buffing the summoner, stuff like that). I originally thought of this as a way to make up for nerfing bolt magic (which I still think should be done by the way).
    Sebastian
  • TNinjaTNinja
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,165
    Posts: 1,178
    Member
    I want Thoron and Bonfire
  • justshowingjustshowing
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,060
    Posts: 156
    Member
    there would be no point to adding new elemental damage.
    Earth, fire, water, lightning... adding light/dark would feel like we are stepping into something theological.
    When the elements are mainly for calculating damage.
    Greta
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
    Member
    there would be no point to adding new elemental damage.
    Earth, fire, water, lightning... adding light/dark would feel like we are stepping into something theological.
    When the elements are mainly for calculating damage.

    I agree with you, except...

    They haven't been used for that for some time now. Not noticeably at least. Here's hoping they go back to putting value in little details like this, though.
  • TNinjaTNinja
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,165
    Posts: 1,178
    Member
    edited April 17, 2017
    Technically.

    Earth alchemy is Natural, meaning, arrows. it's a neutral element in a way. It's blockable by Natural Shield abilities.
    Water alchemy is ice. Blocked by Ice Shield and Mana Deflector.

    I would assume that Earth alchemy is the only element to be physical, as it's the only alchemy to be blocked by Natural Shields, while the other three by Mana Deflectors.


    I could draw up a chart with my theories.
    Felice
  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,100
    Posts: 887
    Member
    As much as I feel this is a good idea, I think we should REALLY fix what we have already before we start adding new stuff to Mabinogi.
  • dra011dra011
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,010
    Posts: 130
    Member
    Xiokun wrote: »
    As much as I feel this is a good idea, I think we should REALLY fix what we have already before we start adding new stuff to Mabinogi.

    The only problem with that is a lot of it can't be fixed as no one currently on the team know how to do so as the ones who know how the Engine and it's coding work are no longer there we could possible have some of the newer things fixed but a lot of it not much chance i have heard that the team working on a lot of the content we have had lately are trying to fix things but if that is really true or if they will have any luck is unknown.
  • FoolieCooleFoolieCoole
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 93
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    Ack! I just posted a suggestion thread saying we should add Necromancer talent. There's your dark. ^_^

    Looks like my years of grinding str were for naut. Going necro!
  • lidiyalidiya
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,325
    Posts: 335
    Member
    Felice wrote: »
    I'd love to see proper Wind and Earth Elemental Magics in tiers like we have with Fire/Ice/Lightning already. Wind could focus on Knock-back, or even non-elemental magic based damage. Earth would be proper defensive or a more powerful single target strike.

    that would clash with alchemy that has that stuff
    AlmostNotsuper
  • MhaolMhaol
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,215
    Posts: 108
    Member
    Honestly I hope we get literal Hybrid-Talents+Skills that actually effect game play.

    Like allowing Archers to fuse Firebolt into their Magnum shot for more damage, [Mage/Archer Talent] or a Warrior be able to use Fighter skills, by allowing them to block an attack then go into a chain-attack and Drop Kick, [Fighter/Close Combat talent].

    There's lots of possibilities of what can possibly be done for new skills and talents.
  • ElfvieElfvie
    Mabinogi Rep: 740
    Posts: 42
    Member
    It's a no for me. I know people want more variety in magic, but I think it'd be difficult to do such a thing without A.making magic skills seem cheap or B.making magic so OP and versatile that there's little point in using archery anything else (it's already kind of like that though). In a game like Mabinogi, wherein you aren't locked into any class (although you have to pay to unlock archery's full potential), it's very important that no two skills (or at least not much more than two =T) do the same thing the same way, even if one outclasses the other (especially if one outclasses the other). Even if you don't care that multiple 'classes' can do the same thing, there are only so many ways you can reskin a skill and have it be interesting.

    However, I do think it'd be neat if there were more types of magic, light and dark themed in particular. I'm just not sure they should be generic magic skills. I'd like to see them either as separate skillsets, or as accessory skills. I know some people have proposed necromancer type talents multiple times in the past, so I'm sure people would be eager to see something like that. I've been thinking it be neat (and potentially simpler) to make summoner skills, based on the magic used in fomor scrolls (maybe give us more details about the fomors in the process). I also thought battle mage skills would be kind of cool: more stuff like blaze, and that could be light themed. It could be inspired by the shamans, maybe we could learn it from them. I was actually going to make a UGC thread for this back when that was a thing, but I gave up because too much work for no reason.

    Going back to what I said in the first paragraph, I personally believe that any new skills should be made with a unique purpose in mind, and any talent should be made with a 'flow' in mind (the skills need to work together somehow). This is kind of difficult, especially in the case of Necromancer type stuff, which people always want to feature some type of minions. It's kind of a pain to make a minion type thing that's sufficiently different from golems, puppets and pets. And then there's the problem of deciding how they should be controlled, if they can be controlled. And if they don't have to be controlled, what's limiting the player? (Most likely, it's just be the fact that the summons get in the way more than they actually help, thanks to bad AI). The battle mage thing is a little simpler since there are no minions involved, but there's still the question of how to make it good without having it replace close combat entirely (this was before bash was a thing, so close combat was pretty lackluster aside from lances).

    Now I think adding battle mage skills as an exclusive supplement to fighter would be a good way to make it worthwhile again. Maybe they could release more magical knuckles too. The summoner thing I mentioned is pretty much a simplification of some of the necromancer suggestions I've seen. Instead of any actual minions, I'm thinking it would be better to summon an intangible helper (kind of like support dolls or mercenary scrolls) which only performs a single function for the duration of its summons (maybe knocking enemies back, buffing the summoner, stuff like that). I originally thought of this as a way to make up for nerfing bolt magic (which I still think should be done by the way).

    lol... to me your comment about not being locked in... For me, magic is the talent i really love and use. But the thing is, I have my gears set up for magic attack, not MAX damage, sure magic is great and all... but if you compare gears, it's Magic attack or Max damage. With Magic attack I can only do magic, and nothing else, while max damage you can use it on ALL the other combat talents. (basically) Same story with Alchemy... and alchemy is like of magic too...
    Kaga