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why Mabi is no longer fun.

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  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,765
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Uberchao wrote: »
    I just hate reaching the boss room only to watch a single human go ham on a boss for 5-20 seconds and murderize it with Final Hit, sometimes Bash applies too. And I hate that people will spend great amounts of money just to get such reforges. Why would you deliberately trivialize the game? How is it fun by the time you're just FHing all of Peaca Abyss to death? Also I hate reforges and the insane cost to them. If you don't have any, you will be grossly outmatched by most others at endgame level.

    Anyway I actually haven't gotten Bash yet, I had it on my old human, but learning of it, I vehemently reject it and will not use it, as it trivializes the vast majority of one-on-one encounters. But you can't impose such rules on other people, which means I gotta live with watching other party members spam it against everything until it dies. Just why on earth would they invent a skill that goes against absolutely every standard the combat system set in place, anyway? A combat system where skills are supposed to have specific uses, can counter others and be countered. I'm still livid.

    You will love FH, Bash and Reforge users when you will need to do Rabbie Phantasm Dungeon. Believe me. I actually don't mind them killing all monsters on my way, and some of them even leave huge piles of gold so that's a win-win to me lol. I would only suggest you to ignore reforges or start to play by yourself if you can't deal with it. I sometimes feel frustrated when a fully reforged mage or archer kills everything on my way when i try to Bash/Smash monsters, but i just meh at this and feel happy instead since i didn't need to lose too much durability and such there. I also don't have any good reforged gear, but i don't even care. I just dye my clothes :^)

  • Sphyra21Sphyra21
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    Yup I've said it a million times before, the old combat system was better. And by old combat system I mean NO COOLDOWN TIMES.

    The old combat system was something that made Mabinogi unique and very different from other MMOs. Yes there were loading times, but you could actually use that to your advantage. Combat required that you plan out an actual combo.

    I think it's especially frustrating to us veteran players when a relatively new player can just get a weapon with some outrageous reforge stats and blaze through enemies ridiculously easily even though they've just started out. Final Hit and Bash need to be nerfed.

    And yes I will to continue to harp on about cooldowns versus loading times. Archery should not have cooldown times just like Magic except for Final Shot (cuz duh). Meteor Strike, snap cast, Lightning Rod, Inspiration all have cooldowns when other magic skills don't. I think this needs to be applied to archery as well.

    Annnnnnnnnnd I went off on a tangent about archery again..... my bad
    AlmostNotsuperXiokunDaktaro
  • TsumukuTsumuku
    Mabinogi Rep: 995
    Posts: 91
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    Uberchao wrote: »
    Just why on earth would they invent a skill that goes against absolutely every standard the combat system set in place, anyway? A combat system where skills are supposed to have specific uses, can counter others and be countered. I'm still livid..
    This was a problem long before Bash. Just think of gunner and ninja, in which most of the skills don't have a counter, or can outright ignore defense.

    That being said, to the original poster, I really can't follow what it is that you're trying to say is wrong with the game. You listed things that seem to bother you, but didn't really express why, or even what a better alternative is.

    To counter what I believe are some common complaints:
    C: The game has been made too easy, it was the steep learning curve that drew me to the game!~
    R: I can completely understand how a system that is complicated to learn can be very rewarding once you can gain mastery of it, however for the greater majority of players it was too frustrating and a negative impact on the game. I feel that most of the kills come to a fair compromise on this.

    C: It's not fair that they have weekly rebirth now, this makes keeping up far more difficult.
    R: True, it does allow people to level quicker than previously, but to some (such as myself) this has been a great relief of a money sink.

    C: Nexon removed Eiry, now I miss my friend.
    R: This a a completely valid complaint, and needs to be addressed. Some people really liked Eiry to start things off. Having a bad day? Just make a new character on Mabi and have a great chat with your favorite spirit weapon.

    I think that what a lot of others are saying may be a bit of the truth here. It is okay to change, and in the life time of this game it is only expected that your tastes will have changed a bit. I quite enjoy the game, if for no other reason than it has managed to provide ways to keep progressing, and there are always new strategies to learn. I will admit that the game is starting to develop some large plot holes due to the change in the development team, however the new content is still good. I also believe that it would be nice to see the team shift a bit of effort toward reinventing old clothes and content to bring it up to a more level approach. Seeing Belvast be finished would be great, they have half an island to go!
    Guilds in Mabinogi were quickly abandon, and then momentarily brought back into the light with some improvements in G10, however that is far too long ago, and even some of the things I recall being stated as coming features never emerged.

    Maybe with the new development team, and an active community that is not afraid to express what it would like to see change we can start to see old plans and new flesh out.... Too much optimism there though.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
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    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    Yup I've said it a million times before, the old combat system was better. And by old combat system I mean NO COOLDOWN TIMES.

    The old combat system was something that made Mabinogi unique and very different from other MMOs. Yes there were loading times, but you could actually use that to your advantage. Combat required that you plan out an actual combo.

    I think it's especially frustrating to us veteran players when a relatively new player can just get a weapon with some outrageous reforge stats and blaze through enemies ridiculously easily even though they've just started out. Final Hit and Bash need to be nerfed.

    And yes I will to continue to harp on about cooldowns versus loading times. Archery should not have cooldown times just like Magic except for Final Shot (cuz duh). Meteor Strike, snap cast, Lightning Rod, Inspiration all have cooldowns when other magic skills don't. I think this needs to be applied to archery as well.

    Annnnnnnnnnd I went off on a tangent about archery again..... my bad

    LEAVE FINAL HIT ALONE!!!

    Seriously, have too much invested in my FH set. :|
  • TsumukuTsumuku
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    I think Final Hit is just a bit overpowered really. It was overpowered when it was just hit without being hit for several seconds. The damage boost was not necessary.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,290
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    edited April 30, 2017
    The problem with using the term outdated is that, you cannot really apply it to games like Mabinogi. It is a stroke of genius to hop onto the 3D animesque graphical design, and this was around 2003, and with all options on, it looks nice. It is not outdated, it is a style, not as much as World of Warcraft where their graphical style is not all that appealing, and surpassed by games like Black Desert.

    Sure, some clothing has bad texture design and whatnot, but it has gotten better throughout the years.
    GretaNegumikoHiroki05
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Tsumuku wrote: »
    I think Final Hit is just a bit overpowered really. It was overpowered when it was just hit without being hit for several seconds. The damage boost was not necessary.

    It is necessary if you want to get through phantasm. :|

    Seriously, everyone, stop it with the FH nerf requests. It's really starting to piss me off and I wonder where this all stemming from. Ah! I know what it is. Jelly. Too much jelly.
    Greta
  • dra011dra011
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,010
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    Gaea wrote: »
    Tsumuku wrote: »
    I think Final Hit is just a bit overpowered really. It was overpowered when it was just hit without being hit for several seconds. The damage boost was not necessary.

    It is necessary if you want to get through phantasm. :|

    Seriously, everyone, stop it with the FH nerf requests. It's really starting to piss me off and I wonder where this all stemming from. Ah! I know what it is. Jelly. Too much jelly.

    Honestly that fact that it's needed to get though phantasm shows how difficultly in mabi is done poorly for the most part it is give enemies more hp or more attack or defence and so on nothing that really means you need to think or use multiple skills sets like an endgame dungeon honestly should do you just need to be able to do the damage.

    But on the topic of final hit being op that is kinda the point of the skill.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,290
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Gaea wrote: »
    Tsumuku wrote: »
    I think Final Hit is just a bit overpowered really. It was overpowered when it was just hit without being hit for several seconds. The damage boost was not necessary.

    It is necessary if you want to get through phantasm. :|

    Seriously, everyone, stop it with the FH nerf requests. It's really starting to piss me off and I wonder where this all stemming from. Ah! I know what it is. Jelly. Too much jelly.

    I think the problem is when a race exclusive skill is needed to get through a dungeon in the first place. It may not be overpowered as in gamebreaking alone, but other races do not have a great deal to compete with a room clearer.

    I would argue the "jelly", coming from other races, is somewhat justified. A sort of giant killing a Wendigo with an icepole to learn Hailstorm deal.

    In any case, I thought final hit was a pretty weak skill without the damage bonus. It was not a very good skill, even for the purpose of stunlocking an enemy.
  • JojuleJojule
    Mabinogi Rep: 530
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    nah i agree with him, i love mabi but they should build a new game with it's core mechanics in mind and move on from this one. This game has many amazing features like what he said with the rebirthing and the skills and the combat system. it also has other's like it's questing system being non linear and sandboxy and even it's inventory system not just being cheap square images for items but instead a system in which the items take up different amounts of actual space in your inventory. I really miss this game having more people, and i think it could have bee much more successful if they could have been updating it with anything other than gachapons and cheap events. saga and the other generations are there, i get that and those are great but they don't offer enough of a change to satisfy the market these days and because of that mabinogi is not going to last. it's practically dead already.
    AlmostNotsuperDaktaro
  • TsumukuTsumuku
    Mabinogi Rep: 995
    Posts: 91
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Gaea wrote: »
    [It is necessary if you want to get through phantasm. :|
    Seriously, everyone, stop it with the FH nerf requests. It's really starting to piss me off and I wonder where this all stemming from. Ah! I know what it is. Jelly. Too much jelly.

    I didn't say to nerf it, I simply stated that it wasn't necessary. You may feel it is necessary to get through Phantasm, but it really isn't. There are a lot of ways to make yourself stronger in Mabi, final hit and bash are just get strong fast skills.

  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
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    Tsumuku wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    [It is necessary if you want to get through phantasm. :|
    Seriously, everyone, stop it with the FH nerf requests. It's really starting to piss me off and I wonder where this all stemming from. Ah! I know what it is. Jelly. Too much jelly.

    I didn't say to nerf it, I simply stated that it wasn't necessary. You may feel it is necessary to get through Phantasm, but it really isn't. There are a lot of ways to make yourself stronger in Mabi, final hit and bash are just get strong fast skills.

    There is nothing wrong with getting a dungeon or shadow mission done fast especially when you are spamming or farming. My FH set basically allows me to almost spam FH and get things done way quicker.
    Greta
  • TwelieTwelie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,615
    Posts: 257
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Really? Not all the crippling issues which I won't go on to list because they've been stated time and time again? I also.... Kind of don't clearly understand what you're praising or criticising. I need more specifics and better formatting. I'm dense so I have a hard time understanding, but I'd love to talk about it. However this seems more of an incomplete suggestion if anything.
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
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    mabinogi is still fixable, it just who ever is directing mabinogi is currently choosing very bad methods than good ones.
    or just choosing everything in general... like what to fix, what not to fix, what to implement, how its implemented.

    So far, the major issue i see is the choices that are taken.

    their choices;
    -make everything limited time
    -stressed induced monthly events to obtain 1 free item reward.
    -to layer new introduced content on top of a old content, just to introduce a new selling tactic.
    -only fix issues under certain circumstances, instead of always fixing issues.
    -make gachas more of the only worth reason to play
    -never introduce perm items to the in-game npc or nx shops.
    -make GMs visibly unavailable in-game, and give them ticket duty.

    Vs the choices i like to see:
    -Introduce perm items in the nx shop and npc
    -stop layering new content on old content and re-use what you already have to distribute your means
    -constantly fix issues, not when certain circumstances happen
    -make events without having to wait 30 to a hour to obtain a item to play the event, or have a limit on how many times per day the event can be played...
    -Split GMs from ticketing and visibly being in the game.

    their choices are for fast purchases then long term, if you noticed, many purchases that require you buy over time have mostly been removed and replaced with limited time... - and nothing good comes from being grabby-grabby...

    But saying this sounds more like a insult, their be no way to actually get someone who works for mabi to say "i understand your issues" and... well... even saying that... :'(
    TwelieAlmostNotsuperGretaDaktaroTairiku
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
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    You know when Nkeona is on discord it says she is in game. I think that's a start.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Just going to address a few things I've seen pop up in this thread.

    "FH needs a nerf"
    Yes, it most definitely does.

    "Bash needs a nerf"
    Yes, it most definitely does.

    'Mabi has tons of content, so it's better than other games that do everything else better"
    Sure, Mabi has tons of content, but there's still a lot wrong with this argument.
    1.Other (better) games have just as much, if not more content than Mabi does.
    2.A lot of Mabinogi content merely exists in parallel, having little or nothing to do with other content. See life skills (except for magic craft), everything in Iria (except for magic craft, and dragon raids, I guess), and, until recently, dungeons. You can choose to do it if you want to, but there's no practical reason to, outside of acquiring skills and stats once per character, and most of it isn't even fun. They've started to improve this with the dungeon revamp (the practicality, not the fun), but that's only half the problem...
    3.Older content is just broken when new content is a factor. This is to be expected to some degree, because more damage= an easier time. But lullaby, pet spam, rain casting, hidedra? Why? And then there's reforges, but I won't start ranting about those here.

    'Mabi's outdated graphics aren't a problem..."
    In general, they aren't. Anyone who has a problem with Mabi's dated graphics probably quits the game after 5 minutes. No one here cares. Some people probably like it. It really would be nice if the older stuff looked as good as the newer stuff though.

    "Mabi's outdated engine needs a buff..."
    Yes, it most definitely does. It's not likely to get one though, so a new game would be great. Looks like that's not likely to happen either, though.
    dra011 wrote: »
    Honestly that fact that it's needed to get though phantasm shows how difficultly in mabi is done poorly for the most part it is give enemies more hp or more attack or defence and so on nothing that really means you need to think or use multiple skills sets like an endgame dungeon honestly should do you just need to be able to do the damage.

    This. SO much this. Glad someone else picked up on it.

    There is (or was) so much potential in Mabinogi's combat system, but for a long time they've just been doing the bare minimum, making 'tougher' enemies literal walls of HP which require nothing more than DPS above a certain threshold (and enough potions/nao stones/alternate targets to avoid dying long enough to deal that damage) to defeat. Utterly bland and unengaging, but difficult to get past because of the DPS requirement. It feels like a very cheap sort of challenge - cheap here means 'crude and limiting for no good reason'; we all know reforges aren't cheap in the monetary sense. Compare this to combat pre-dynamic combat, and you'll see why older players refer to the old combat as 'tactical' and 'better' even though it was slower and there were fewer options. Our being on-par with monsters meant that we had to pay attention to the skills they used, and try to learn their patterns. Nowadays we just mow things down, summon a pet if they manage to hit us, repeat.
    Gaea wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with getting a dungeon or shadow mission done fast especially when you are spamming or farming. My FH set basically allows me to almost spam FH and get things done way quicker.

    When it's faster than everything else, to the point that there's 0 reason to choose anything else, but it's not OP.

    What do you think OP means? .-.
    IonTairikuHiroki05
  • TwelieTwelie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,615
    Posts: 257
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    edited April 30, 2017
    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    their choices;
    -make everything limited time
    -stressed induced monthly events to obtain 1 free item reward.
    -to layer new introduced content on top of a old content, just to introduce a new selling tactic.
    -only fix issues under certain circumstances, instead of always fixing issues.
    -make gachas more of the only worth reason to play
    -never introduce perm items to the in-game npc or nx shops.
    -make GMs visibly unavailable in-game, and give them ticket duty.

    Vs the choices i like to see:
    -Introduce perm items in the nx shop and npc
    -stop layering new content on old content and re-use what you already have to distribute your means
    -constantly fix issues, not when certain circumstances happen
    -make events without having to wait 30 to a hour to obtain a item to play the event, or have a limit on how many times per day the event can be played...
    -Split GMs from ticketing and visibly being in the game.

    This. This. THIS. I love you.

    However, I'm not sure about the GM thing. They seem to have their hands full with tickets. Although, if they fixed the things you mentioned I think they'd be getting alot less tickets.

    Also, more craftable popular items, like tailoring revamp and adding alot of in game obtainable patterns that are of popular/new clothing. (And blacksmithing.)

    There's a ton more suggestions, but as I've said people have spouted them time and time again.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
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    @AlmostNotsuper Yeah I like it op, that's the point I made in previous comments.

    Are people hating on FH because of pvp or something? Pvp is a waste of time.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,765
    Posts: 6,975
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    edited April 30, 2017
    Gaea wrote: »
    @AlmostNotsuper Yeah I like it op, that's the point I made in previous comments.

    Are people hating on FH because of pvp or something? Pvp is a waste of time.

    It's because they are squishy elves. Only elf players are salty at FH and Bash.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
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    Greta wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    @AlmostNotsuper Yeah I like it op, that's the point I made in previous comments.

    Are people hating on FH because of pvp or something? Pvp is a waste of time.

    It's because they are squishy elves. Only elf players are salty at FH and Bash.

    To answer both of you, my point is that no single option should be so good in every situation that nothing else competes with it. It's not even a matter of being an elf or not, it's a matter of wanting to be able to do something else and still contribute.

    So much for this being a sandbox game where you can do anything you want and have a good time doing so. "Mabinogi, the fantasy anime life where you can be anything you want to be.. but if you want to be useful, you can only FH, Bash or firebolt spam (with the occasional lightning rod)."
    IonDaktaroTairikuSphyra21Hiroki05
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