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I'm guessing Nexon does not care about botters

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  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,655
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    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
  • VivianVivian
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,030
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    edited December 22, 2016
    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:


    You can bot for gold and gear.
    KR players used to do it for VHM raids, when it gave 50k/run, which took about 40 seconds or less.

    Personally I'm not a fan of botters. They're a big reason that I left a lot of other games, like Tree of Savior, Flyff, and LaTale. Its not much fun to work for thing while others are just AFK, farming for whatever they're there for. I don't see a point in playing a game where players can just get whatever they want without doing anything for it, which is exactly what botting allows.

    Mabi doesn't seem to be as plagued by them as the other games I mentioned, but its still annoying to see them.
    NA, doesnt seem to have that problem though. For the most part mabi does require you to be physically active for to acquire gold/gear. The issue mostly lies with one active person commanding 3-4 alts through whatever platform they are using to obtain gold; which is more of a multiclient problem.

    The most common actual gold botting I've seen is commerce botting from gold bots.
  • MizumieMizumie
    Mabinogi Rep: 825
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    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    GretaKroeneNekoLily
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
    Posts: 6,919
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    edited December 22, 2016
    My god, seems like this thread will just encourage players to bot more instead of scaring them away. People are freakin defending them just because training requirements are too difficult and there are training seals/potions that help legit players too... Then bravo for lazy botters that get profit for doing nothing at all and maybe join them if you think it's fine to do so.
    NekoLily
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,655
    Posts: 886
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    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    It sometimes can be hard to trace what is botting and what is not. For example. When I was training Crisis Escape, I stood in the same spot for hours training it, hardly moved. Only the occasional rock throw to get the raccoons to notice me. To someone who is on the other side of the camp, might think that is botting, when really I was just looking back at my computer every 30-40 seconds (what ever the cool down time was) and hitting my F5 key. I would get worried someone would think I was macroing the skill so every so often I would summon a pet or do something else xD;;
    Then again sometimes it is also very easy to tell when someone is botting.
  • VivianVivian
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,030
    Posts: 33
    Member
    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:


    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    Greta
    Greta said:

    My god, seems like this thread will just encourage players to bot more instead of scaring them away. People are freakin defending them just because training requirements are too difficult and there are training seals/potions that help legit players too... Then bravo for lazy botters that get profit for doing nothing ans join them if you think it's fine.
    If nexon reconsidered training requirements then maybe less people would bot. Perhaps this is a cry for change more than it is a cry for illicit action to be passible.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
    Posts: 6,919
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    edited December 22, 2016
    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    It sometimes can be hard to trace what is botting and what is not. For example. When I was training Crisis Escape, I stood in the same spot for hours training it, hardly moved. Only the occasional rock throw to get the raccoons to notice me. To someone who is on the other side of the camp, might think that is botting, when really I was just looking back at my computer every 30-40 seconds (what ever the cool down time was) and hitting my F5 key. I would get worried someone would think I was macroing the skill so every so often I would summon a pet or do something else xD;;
    Then again sometimes it is also very easy to tell when someone is botting.
    It's really easy to spot botter. Just come and say "Hi". If the guy doesn't respond, just lure bears on him and see if the guy will react to it fast or do something that bots can't do (like summon pets, start to talk, run around), because bots have monotonic actions and will never change it too sudden like legit player. If the guy still doesn't react to the bears you lured, congrats, you found a botter.

  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,245
    Posts: 319
    Member
    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    That's stretching it. There's a fine line between macros and hacks.
  • KroeneKroene
    Mabinogi Rep: 890
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    Vivian
    Vivian said:


    Like I said, this type of botting is a lesser offense. It's mostly just a macro that players use or whatever.

    Yet MMOs like overwatch, CS:GO, LOL are thriving. I don't know about your server but if you look at the player base, hardly anyone is training.The training is simply not fun and the enjoyment of this game comes from the community. You have to admit most content is passable with regular combat mastery and a few pets. I myself finished a majority of content with a brand new giant with a minimal amount of skills ranked.

    Everyone is buying, selling, running sms they've run a million times before, or just chatting up friends. You yourself don't even think it's necessary to have higher rank skills; like r1 shadow cloak, so what harm is being done by someone who just wants it enough to bot for it? Like they just want the skill and then they can go on and do something else in the game.
    I said this earlier in the thread, but in terms of fair play botting and hacking are exactly the same. Whether you collected gold from gold-farming bots or generated it with a hack, you obtained something through illicit means. Hacking is worse in general because it's also a security issue.

    As for your point about LOL, these games come from different genres. MMORPGS typically have lower playerbases than MOBAs and shooters. WOW is the most successful MMORPG atm, and it has just as much grinding as any other MMORPG.

    What is the harm in somebody using a bot? Time is money. By using a bot to afk train your skills, you are creating an advantage for yourself that is unfair to others.
    Lets say there are two players who, due to their work schedule, can only play Mabinogi for 8 hours a day.
    One of the players is legit, and he splits his playtime into 2 hours of grinding and 6 hours of earning gold.
    The other player leaves a bot on for 8 hours while he sleeps at night. He then spends all 8 of his playing hours earning gold.
    An auction comes along, and the two bid for the same item. The botter is easily able to outbid the legit player, because he doesn't have to worry about investing any of his time into grinding. He can spend all of it earning gold. The botter will always have more gold than the legit player because he will always have more time to make gold.
  • MizumieMizumie
    Mabinogi Rep: 825
    Posts: 40
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    Vivian
    Vivian said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:


    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    Greta
    Greta said:

    My god, seems like this thread will just encourage players to bot more instead of scaring them away. People are freakin defending them just because training requirements are too difficult and there are training seals/potions that help legit players too... Then bravo for lazy botters that get profit for doing nothing ans join them if you think it's fine.
    If nexon reconsidered training requirements then maybe less people would bot. Perhaps this is a cry for change more than it is a cry for illicit action to be passible.
    That could be fair. I remember when I was working at getting magic artisan. I'd spend hours each day, for weeks, especially towards the end. I know grinding can be extremely frustrating and tedious at times, and with the dwindling player base, change is probably needed, but I think that might be an issue for a different thread to avoid derailing this one.
    Greta
    Greta said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    It sometimes can be hard to trace what is botting and what is not. For example. When I was training Crisis Escape, I stood in the same spot for hours training it, hardly moved. Only the occasional rock throw to get the raccoons to notice me. To someone who is on the other side of the camp, might think that is botting, when really I was just looking back at my computer every 30-40 seconds (what ever the cool down time was) and hitting my F5 key. I would get worried someone would think I was macroing the skill so every so often I would summon a pet or do something else xD;;
    Then again sometimes it is also very easy to tell when someone is botting.
    It's really easy to spot botter. Just come and say "Hi". If the guy doesn't respond, just lure bears on him and see if the guy will react to it fast or do something that bots can't do (like summon pets, start to talk, run around), because bots have monotonic actions and will never change it too sudden like legit player. If the guy still doesn't react to the bears you lured, congrats, you found a botter.

    Sometimes it can be hard to find out if someone is actually botting. But when people admit to it and no action is taken, :C. I have no words.

    also that bear thing. :') Please don't do that to anyone who looks too weak to fend them off. //flashbacks to when I was a new player.
    But, unfortunately that doesn't provide solid evidence that the player is botting either. Not everyone speaks english, and some players are extremely shy/solonogi, so talking to them might not work either.
    Vivian
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
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    edited December 22, 2016
    Raishii
    Raishii said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    That's stretching it. There's a fine line between macros and hacks.
    I know many friends that botted in various games first and later started to hack that same game, because they thought botting is too much time consuming too. Some people get greedy, they start to look how to get even more and more in a way less time...

  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,655
    Posts: 886
    Member
    Greta
    Greta said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    It sometimes can be hard to trace what is botting and what is not. For example. When I was training Crisis Escape, I stood in the same spot for hours training it, hardly moved. Only the occasional rock throw to get the raccoons to notice me. To someone who is on the other side of the camp, might think that is botting, when really I was just looking back at my computer every 30-40 seconds (what ever the cool down time was) and hitting my F5 key. I would get worried someone would think I was macroing the skill so every so often I would summon a pet or do something else xD;;
    Then again sometimes it is also very easy to tell when someone is botting.
    It's really easy to spot botter. Just come and say "Hi". If the guy doesn't respond, just lure bears on him and see if the guy will react to it fast or do something that bots can't do (like summon pets, start to talk, run around), because bots have monotonic actions and will never change it too sudden like legit player. If the guy still doesn't react to the bears you lured, congrats, you found a botter.

    Luring bears is always fun honestly. I do that to gold bots in dunby (and people get super pissy as well) Not responding to a Hello isn't the best way to also judge if someone is a bot or not. Sometimes people really don't want to talk to people and won't respond, I know I have done it before. Another thing to do is also kill all the racoons or foxes with AOE spam.

    For the record I am not trying to defend botters or Macro's I am just also saying that people are acting like it is something that needs to be placed on the most important list. While it against the TOS, I would rather nexon focus on more important issues.
  • XiokunXiokun
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    Botting is frowned upon by nexon, but buying your way out of skills is encouraged, though! :D

    In all seriousness I feel that we should fix training requirements to make them less grindy and rng heavy and make it more fun and natural so that botting AND spending money for training tools will be unnecessary.
  • KroeneKroene
    Mabinogi Rep: 890
    Posts: 61
    Member
    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:


    It sometimes can be hard to trace what is botting and what is not. For example. When I was training Crisis Escape, I stood in the same spot for hours training it, hardly moved. Only the occasional rock throw to get the raccoons to notice me. To someone who is on the other side of the camp, might think that is botting, when really I was just looking back at my computer every 30-40 seconds (what ever the cool down time was) and hitting my F5 key. I would get worried someone would think I was macroing the skill so every so often I would summon a pet or do something else xD;;
    Then again sometimes it is also very easy to tell when someone is botting.
    It is really hard to actually prove somebody is botting, but that is not the point of this thread. In this case, I reported two players and submitted video evidence that, beyond any reasonable doubt, proved they were using a bot to afk train their skills. Neither of the players have been punished.

    I've run into maybe 20-30 botters and I've only taken the effort to report two of them, as they were totally obvious.

    I'm not saying Nexon should be trigger-happy with their punishments when it comes to botting. A lot of scrutiny should be exercised in order to ensure that players don't get screwed over by false reports.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
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    edited December 22, 2016
    I'm now trying to imagine what would happen if Nexon reduces training requirements. I bet people then would go "the game is too easy now, boohoo" and so on. I bet that would totally happen lols.
  • RaishiiRaishii
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    Greta
    Greta said:

    Raishii
    Raishii said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    That's stretching it. There's a fine line between macros and hacks.
    I know many friends that botted in various games first and later started to hack that same game, because they thought botting is too much time consuming too. Some people get greedy, they start to look how to get even more and more in a way less time...

    But who's to say that every hacker was originally a botter? A person can just as easily jump from being a normal, rule-abiding player to hacker.

    That would be like saying a person needs to commit petty crimes before they level up to becoming murderers.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
    Posts: 6,919
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    edited December 22, 2016
    Raishii
    Raishii said:

    Greta
    Greta said:

    Raishii
    Raishii said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    That's stretching it. There's a fine line between macros and hacks.
    I know many friends that botted in various games first and later started to hack that same game, because they thought botting is too much time consuming too. Some people get greedy, they start to look how to get even more and more in a way less time...

    But who's to say that every hacker was originally a botter? A person can just as easily jump from being a normal, rule-abiding player to hacker.

    That would be like saying a person needs to commit petty crimes before they level up to becoming murderers.
    Most likely yes.

  • VivianVivian
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,030
    Posts: 33
    Member
    edited December 22, 2016
    Kroene
    Kroene said:


    I said this earlier in the thread, but in terms of fair play botting and hacking are exactly the same. Whether you collected gold from gold-farming bots or generated it with a hack, you obtained something through illicit means. Hacking is worse in general because it's also a security issue.

    As for your point about LOL, these games come from different genres. MMORPGS typically have lower playerbases than MOBAs and shooters. WOW is the most successful MMORPG atm, and it has just as much grinding as any other MMORPG.

    What is the harm in somebody using a bot? Time is money. By using a bot to afk train your skills, you are creating an advantage for yourself that is unfair to others.
    Lets say there are two players who, due to their work schedule, can only play Mabinogi for 8 hours a day.
    One of the players is legit, and he splits his playtime into 2 hours of grinding and 6 hours of earning gold.
    The other player leaves a bot on for 8 hours while he sleeps at night. He then spends all 8 of his playing hours earning gold.
    An auction comes along, and the two bid for the same item. The botter is easily able to outbid the legit player, because he doesn't have to worry about investing any of his time into grinding. He can spend all of it earning gold. The botter will always have more gold than the legit player because he will always have more time to make gold.
    How do we far in comparison to BnS then? Same genre, no training requirement for skills yet they still thrive. How about Maplestory? No training requirement. Instead they implement their grinding into other things like actual content and gear grinding. There is so little payoff for mabi's skill training yet the requirements for advancing skills aren't hard but they are tedious and take forever.

    What about a person who spends $500 on training seals in comparison from someone who trains endlessly? Or purchases all of their pots? Who's to say a person who is actually active in their 8 hour training isn't making any profit from it in comparison to someone who has a macro pushing a button?
    Greta
    Greta said:

    I'm now trying to imagine what would happen if Nexon reduces training requirements. I bet people then would go "the game is too easy now, boohoo" and so on. I bet that would totally happen lols.
    I don't recall people botting things like enchant because they actually required you to be an active participant in the training process. People needing the -cp gear and actually seeking out mobs that were around their skill level. Or looking for the appropriate materials/manuals for tailoring. Just because they change things doesn't mean it'll be easier.

    Maybe lessing the amount of shadow cloak uses to something feasible during for everyday combat.

    And who said skill training was actually hard? The reason why people can bot is because they're so easy. It's just so frustrating to sit there and spam a single button for hours at a time.

  • RaishiiRaishii
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,245
    Posts: 319
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    Greta
    Greta said:

    Raishii
    Raishii said:

    Greta
    Greta said:

    Raishii
    Raishii said:

    Mizumie
    Mizumie said:

    FayeKaiba
    FayeKaiba said:

    How is this negatively impacting your life and game play? Are you going to feel your account is at risk? Are you going to think something is going to happen to you? How is this causing you harm in your mabi life?

    I trained all my skills without the use of macro's and bots and I wouldn't even know how to set one up or use one so I don't care honestly, I like training my skills. if people want to train it like that so what? Yes, it's against TOS but it's not really something important that nexon needs to jump on over other things. Nexon honestly has bigger things to worry about and more important thing to fix than worry about someone using a macro to train their skills. It not a serious issues as people are making it out to be.
    I don't like it, but like you mentioned, I don't really think its a -major- thing if they only use it for skills. But I do think it sets a terrible precedent. A lot of people see that botters can do what they want, so they jump on the bandwagon, and then some of those people get overconfident and start experimenting with hacks, and before we know it, the game is just an unstable mess.

    Why even have rules if we don't enforce them?
    That's stretching it. There's a fine line between macros and hacks.
    I know many friends that botted in various games first and later started to hack that same game, because they thought botting is too much time consuming too. Some people get greedy, they start to look how to get even more and more in a way less time...

    But who's to say that every hacker was originally a botter? A person can just as easily jump from being a normal, rule-abiding player to hacker.

    That would be like saying a person needs to commit petty crimes before they level up to becoming murderers.
    Most likely yes.

    Ergo, a botter a hacker does not make.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
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    edited December 22, 2016
    Vivian
    Vivian said:

    Kroene
    Kroene said:


    I said this earlier in the thread, but in terms of fair play botting and hacking are exactly the same. Whether you collected gold from gold-farming bots or generated it with a hack, you obtained something through illicit means. Hacking is worse in general because it's also a security issue.

    As for your point about LOL, these games come from different genres. MMORPGS typically have lower playerbases than MOBAs and shooters. WOW is the most successful MMORPG atm, and it has just as much grinding as any other MMORPG.

    What is the harm in somebody using a bot? Time is money. By using a bot to afk train your skills, you are creating an advantage for yourself that is unfair to others.
    Lets say there are two players who, due to their work schedule, can only play Mabinogi for 8 hours a day.
    One of the players is legit, and he splits his playtime into 2 hours of grinding and 6 hours of earning gold.
    The other player leaves a bot on for 8 hours while he sleeps at night. He then spends all 8 of his playing hours earning gold.
    An auction comes along, and the two bid for the same item. The botter is easily able to outbid the legit player, because he doesn't have to worry about investing any of his time into grinding. He can spend all of it earning gold. The botter will always have more gold than the legit player because he will always have more time to make gold.
    How do we far in comparison to BnS then? Same genre, no training requirement for skills yet they still thrive. How about Maplestory? No training requirement. Instead they implement their grinding into other things like actual content and gear grinding. There is so little payoff for mabi's skill training yet the requirements for advancing skills aren't hard but they are tedious and take forever.

    What about a person who spends $500 on training seals in comparison from someone who trains endlessly? Or purchases all of their pots? Who's to say a person who is actually active in their 8 hour training isn't making any profit from it in comparison to someone who has a macro pushing a button?


    That's why Mabinogi is unique. No Classes, you can be whatever you want. It has training requirements. And no level limits, you can also Rebirth endlessly.

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