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Make elite SMs not require elite pass

Comments

  • GiegueGiegue
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,975
    Posts: 215
    Member
    I think there should be a pass system, but I do hate getting 50 elite passes for Missions I have no intention of doing, and few for the missions I enjoy.
    I think Elite Missions should just have a catch-all elite pass that isn't a cash shop item.

    Or at the very least, elite pass exchange system.
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,775
    Posts: 97
    Member
    Cquiles wrote: »
    Rhey wrote: »
    We already have an all elite in one pass. It's in the cash shop. Sometimes handed out during events. Spend the $$$ or abuse alts when those event comes around. Getting access to our wallets is pretty much half the reason Elite restrictions were designed like this. Suffer the fustrations or pay 4 the privileges of convenience...pretty much.

    "just pay money and wait for events AND ABUSE EVENTS WITH ALTS!! GET GUD!! or get out"
    paying to get exp playing the game normally is NOT A PRIVILEGE. its not a convenience, we are supposed to have access to mobs that can give us exp!!
    its a FLAWED game system from 2010 that has not caught up with our 5 revamps and 11 talent additions into the game. it has not caught up with our cp and exp needs! that is literally the MOST outrageous thing you can say.


    join me with my suggestion. it will not trivialize the game, you anti-change worshipper. you flawed game designer. you must learn when a system is bad, not shift the way you play in order to get anything out of this system.



    Well, That first part would be true if you could pay for EXP. You'd still have to actually complete the mission to gain the EXP. You're also not entitled to any sort of "Mobs and exp/cp" needs; Rebirths counteract the whole exp system, so you can still gain a good amount of levels whether you're level 1k or 10k. And if you have a problem with CP, do what everyone else does and get -CP gear and/or reset your skills. As a newbie-friendly person, and as a participant/contributor to the social system and the mabi economy, being able to freely enter any elite at will would destroy the value of rarer items, such as broken chains/mage gems. "Adjusting" the price would punish the people who aren't whining about the inconvenience of passes. Elites are created in a way that it is harder to abuse/spam, but at the same time, it encourages newer players to come along and interact with more advanced players (I know this because I run elites with guildies and applicants, it allows them to tag along and participate while the advanced players actually have content that can challenge them). The sociality aspect of mabi is what makes it unique from other games. No other game I've seen encourages players to interact with each other as much as Mabi does. While I do agree that CP and difficulty can be a problem, I don't agree with the fact that you think it's okay to tax everyone with an inconvenience so you can advance yourself in the game. Elite passes are an installed compromise for difficulty and reward. If you actually did shadow missions on a regular basis, or even possibly ask other players if they have the pass you're looking for, you may find that it is a lot easier to access these Elite missions. Putting yourself before others doesn't contribute towards anything positive. You cannot compromise other's gameplay for your own personal gain.

    Also It'd be so much easier to take you seriously if you used grammar, thanks. :#



  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,775
    Posts: 97
    Member
    Pan wrote: »
    Elite passes are not a problem if you actively run shadow missions or whatever that has a chance of rewarding them. There's a whole stockpile waiting to be used, but I just don't have time.

    Preach :> Elite passes aren't even a problem if people would do their daily missions for a few weeks; they start accumulating after a while.
  • TiernieTiernie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,380
    Posts: 36
    Member
    I am also very high level and would love the option to just spam Elite missions, but I do have to agree that having it open to do all the time would cause problems. There are other ways around the cp situation when training. You can obtain -cp gear. Right now -cp gear is decently cheap because it was spammed in gachas recently. If you don't have the money you can do what i did and spam the missions to get the enchants and make your own -cp suit. On top of that I do use tendering pots. Is it easy? No. But if it was easy then you would get bored and stop playing. I started the conversation to have a higher drop rate for the passes. I spam Shadow Missions all the time and i get very few Elite passes, so i do agree that a increase on the the chance of getting one would be nice. As for the money sinks in Mabi, it would be as simple as upgrading the fashion items already in the NPC shops. The clothing and armor could be very nice and people would buy the in-game gear if the graphics on the items were updated. The would be common items so it wouldn't take away from the appeal of buying gacha, and people who wouldn't buy gacha anyways would sink in-game money into NPC items. Mabi is probably like 85% fashion based. They are more likely to sink 400K gold in a cute NPC sold outfit than paying a bank fee, donating to a creepy priest, or even just making simple repairs.
    Faybal
  • TiernieTiernie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,380
    Posts: 36
    Member
    edited July 13, 2017
    With the market of Mabi being primarily fashion based having stuff like this for sale in NPC shops is just bad. cDDcQf5.jpg
    Faybal
  • CquilesCquiles
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,455
    Posts: 25
    Member
    Faybal wrote: »
    Also It'd be so much easier to take you seriously if you used grammar, thanks. :#

    theres not enough accommodating cp mobs for vets in sms (or in general but im here for the sms). unless the game specifically gives players a quest to complete at level 15k that gives a -cp set to train/get mob exp then the game is not accommodating for high cp players. it is the player having to accommodate their character for the game. when players have to do that then the game is not balanced. it is not entitlement, period. no more entitlement discussions because ive answered this enough times with enough clarity.

    im completely understanding that playing very regularly can give you access to elite sms more frequently, but is everyone here understanding that vets playing hardmode to get to elites are not getting as much exp as their mid-tier player counterparts? by this logic of playing regularly everything else except beginner should be locked too but you see it is not, therefore players are, again in this situation, accommodating the sm system. this means its unbalanced.

    im disregarding having to reset skills just to get exp and train, that is the sign of a horribly unbalanced game. everyone who keeps bringing this up is just proving my point that you have to accommodate the system. skill resets started off as a single rank reset, then moved into an entire skill reset from 1 to F, then moved into an entire characters skill reset, at this point the purpose of the resets are just a band-aid mechanic on this game and its fairly obvious at that. i hope you understand this, and cease to use this as an argument point in the future.

    also so what if the chains and other drops go down in price? im not getting a clear understanding on why "its supposed to be rare", why is it supposed to be expensive and rare? because you said so? are you god?
    did you hate it when celtic royal weapons (what chains are used for) got released in gachas? i bet you did.

    Tiernie wrote: »
    -

    did you stop to think that the reason this game is 85% fashion based content now is because the dungeon and fighting aspect have failed and many of the people who play this game to fight are gone? that the company is now catering to the group thats still left? (fashion)

    im using the training and cp/exp problem to address the current sm system as the bone for my suggestion. im not asking for tips that i have to plan for and go out of my way to do in order to do a basic mechanic of the game: kill stuff, get exp. be able to train at any level on open world mobs. it shouldnt be that hard.
  • PanPan
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,165
    Posts: 421
    Member
    Yeah.. it does accumulate a lot after a while. Stackable passes would be nice.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,440
    Posts: 2,509
    Member
    Insulting your fellows who don't agree with you on your thread is not a good way to gain support. In fact, it is likely to put others off from supporting your thread period.

    I think I would rather see a pass trade-in system. Trade in your Elite Pass for one you don't have. Also, make ALL passes stackable, not just Elite Shadow Missions which would solve the space problem. Though I guess in order to make that feasible, they'd have to remove the time limits on the dungeon passes, which I support.

    Celtic Weapons like Celtic Royal Knight Swords are considered end-game weapons, therefore their materials are rare or expensive. Simple. This is true with Dragon equipment too.

    I like the Skill Reset system they've put into place. You can rather cheaply reset your entire skill set, get the AP back that you sank into it, save for what was used by AP Skill Training, and then do what skill training you need to do and subsequently re-rank your skills. You obviously don't need to go into Elite to rank your skills at this point. Personally, I don't see the issue with the Skill Reset set-up, but I've played Dragon Quest games where it's common to reset your class and abilities constantly in the workings to gain higher classes to change into and better abilities to gain.
    FaybalGreta
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,775
    Posts: 97
    Member
    Tiernie wrote: »
    I am also very high level and would love the option to just spam Elite missions, but I do have to agree that having it open to do all the time would cause problems. There are other ways around the cp situation when training. You can obtain -cp gear. Right now -cp gear is decently cheap because it was spammed in gachas recently. If you don't have the money you can do what i did and spam the missions to get the enchants and make your own -cp suit. On top of that I do use tendering pots. Is it easy? No. But if it was easy then you would get bored and stop playing. I started the conversation to have a higher drop rate for the passes. I spam Shadow Missions all the time and i get very few Elite passes, so i do agree that a increase on the the chance of getting one would be nice. As for the money sinks in Mabi, it would be as simple as upgrading the fashion items already in the NPC shops. The clothing and armor could be very nice and people would buy the in-game gear if the graphics on the items were updated. The would be common items so it wouldn't take away from the appeal of buying gacha, and people who wouldn't buy gacha anyways would sink in-game money into NPC items. Mabi is probably like 85% fashion based. They are more likely to sink 400K gold in a cute NPC sold outfit than paying a bank fee, donating to a creepy priest, or even just making simple repairs.

    Very valid points! The graphics need a long-overdue overhaul; with newer graphics, there is a high chance that lag would be reduced as well, should Nexon decide to actually spend time into making graphics that run efficiently and beautifully on its servers. And yes, NPC item revamp is a must! I quite like a variety of old-school clothing items, but there is a lot of room for improvement. As for the passes, yes, the drop rate increasing would be a good idea, but as you stated, it would have a negative impact if the passes were no longer required to run elites.
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,775
    Posts: 97
    Member
    Cquiles wrote: »
    Faybal wrote: »
    Also It'd be so much easier to take you seriously if you used grammar, thanks. :#

    theres not enough accommodating cp mobs for vets in sms (or in general but im here for the sms). unless the game specifically gives players a quest to complete at level 15k that gives a -cp set to train/get mob exp then the game is not accommodating for high cp players. it is the player having to accommodate their character for the game. when players have to do that then the game is not balanced. it is not entitlement, period. no more entitlement discussions because ive answered this enough times with enough clarity.

    im completely understanding that playing very regularly can give you access to elite sms more frequently, but is everyone here understanding that vets playing hardmode to get to elites are not getting as much exp as their mid-tier player counterparts? by this logic of playing regularly everything else except beginner should be locked too but you see it is not, therefore players are, again in this situation, accommodating the sm system. this means its unbalanced.

    im disregarding having to reset skills just to get exp and train, that is the sign of a horribly unbalanced game. everyone who keeps bringing this up is just proving my point that you have to accommodate the system. skill resets started off as a single rank reset, then moved into an entire skill reset from 1 to F, then moved into an entire characters skill reset, at this point the purpose of the resets are just a band-aid mechanic on this game and its fairly obvious at that. i hope you understand this, and cease to use this as an argument point in the future.

    also so what if the chains and other drops go down in price? im not getting a clear understanding on why "its supposed to be rare", why is it supposed to be expensive and rare? because you said so? are you god?
    did you hate it when celtic royal weapons (what chains are used for) got released in gachas? i bet you did.

    Tiernie wrote: »
    -

    did you stop to think that the reason this game is 85% fashion based content now is because the dungeon and fighting aspect have failed and many of the people who play this game to fight are gone? that the company is now catering to the group thats still left? (fashion)

    im using the training and cp/exp problem to address the current sm system as the bone for my suggestion. im not asking for tips that i have to plan for and go out of my way to do in order to do a basic mechanic of the game: kill stuff, get exp. be able to train at any level on open world mobs. it shouldnt be that hard.

    Quite frankly, it is entitlement when you put your own needs before the needs of the masses. There are plenty of options for you should you decide that your current CP is too high, as Tiernie states in her post. :
    Tiernie wrote: »
    I am also very high level and would love the option to just spam Elite missions, but I do have to agree that having it open to do all the time would cause problems. There are other ways around the cp situation when training. You can obtain -cp gear. Right now -cp gear is decently cheap because it was spammed in gachas recently. If you don't have the money you can do what i did and spam the missions to get the enchants and make your own -cp suit. On top of that I do use tendering pots. Is it easy? No. But if it was easy then you would get bored and stop playing. I started the conversation to have a higher drop rate for the passes. I spam Shadow Missions all the time and i get very few Elite passes, so i do agree that a increase on the the chance of getting one would be nice. As for the money sinks in Mabi, it would be as simple as upgrading the fashion items already in the NPC shops. The clothing and armor could be very nice and people would buy the in-game gear if the graphics on the items were updated. The would be common items so it wouldn't take away from the appeal of buying gacha, and people who wouldn't buy gacha anyways would sink in-game money into NPC items. Mabi is probably like 85% fashion based. They are more likely to sink 400K gold in a cute NPC sold outfit than paying a bank fee, donating to a creepy priest, or even just making simple repairs.
    Leinei wrote: »
    Insulting your fellows who don't agree with you on your thread is not a good way to gain support. In fact, it is likely to put others off from supporting your thread period.

    I think I would rather see a pass trade-in system. Trade in your Elite Pass for one you don't have. Also, make ALL passes stackable, not just Elite Shadow Missions which would solve the space problem. Though I guess in order to make that feasible, they'd have to remove the time limits on the dungeon passes, which I support.

    Celtic Weapons like Celtic Royal Knight Swords are considered end-game weapons, therefore their materials are rare or expensive. Simple. This is true with Dragon equipment too.

    I like the Skill Reset system they've put into place. You can rather cheaply reset your entire skill set, get the AP back that you sank into it, save for what was used by AP Skill Training, and then do what skill training you need to do and subsequently re-rank your skills. You obviously don't need to go into Elite to rank your skills at this point. Personally, I don't see the issue with the Skill Reset set-up, but I've played Dragon Quest games where it's common to reset your class and abilities constantly in the workings to gain higher classes to change into and better abilities to gain.

    "im completely understanding that playing very regularly can give you access to elite sms more frequently, but is everyone here understanding that vets playing hardmode to get to elites are not getting as much exp as their mid-tier player counterparts? by this logic of playing regularly everything else except beginner should be locked too but you see it is not, therefore players are, again in this situation, accommodating the sm system. this means its unbalanced." --Cquiles

    I cannot understand a single thing you said, because I cannot follow the logic. How are vet players not getting as much EXP as newer players? there's the rebirth system, allowing even the most advanced players to reset their current level (Does not change with cumulative). Also, Basic-Hard are the four difficulties, set for varying difficulties of players. They have reduced rewards, and only Elites drop chains/mage gems, because they require passes; this makes them rarer and more difficult to obtain, as well as giving the chains/gems a marketplace base price.


    Another suggestion here! Reset your skills! While re-ranking everything can be quite frustrating (trust me, I know), you avoiding this isn't going to get you anywhere. A skill reset system was implemented for AP refundage, as well as CP lowering. It would be impractical to keep adding Higher CP mobs every time someone reached a new CP. Maybe instead of trying to find a solution to something that has multiple possible solutions to. Literally, if you had tried a combination of -CP gear, Skill reset, AND a tendering potion, you could probably achieve a near newbie-level CP.

    Evidently, you also do not understand the concept of end-game weapons. If elites were able to be done by everyone, and they did not require the pass, there would be an entire wave of botting for chains/materials, similar to the conflict spam bots (which have been resolved due to conflict's gold rewards decreasing). If chains and other rare materials, such as mage gems, were common, that would cripple the market for end-game equipment as well as giving not-as-advanced players access to equipment typically used by players who have expended a lot of time and effort into progressing into the game. This would not be fair. How would you feel if you spent years on progressing a character, and then an update comes out allowing other players to get to your level and character development in less than a month? And as a vet. player, I have little to no problems with CP provided I exert the effort into solving my CP problems, such as using Tendering potions, which can be aquired from the Saga: Iria seal shop (hosted by Lorna). Events also periodically throw a ton of tendering potions at players. If you are too ignorant to actually comprehend the advice this community has given you, and then decide to bash on our thoughts, while at the same time holding your argument to a higher standard, then there is nothing that I, or probably anyone else here, have to offer you. Complaning and ranting about a topic, and then attacking other's feedback (which seems completely logical to me), is not going to get you anywhere on this forum.
  • CquilesCquiles
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,455
    Posts: 25
    Member
    Faybal wrote: »
    Quite frankly, it is entitlement when you put your own needs before the needs of the masses.
    i just used myself as an example so it wouldnt seem like i was making a baseless acclamation that elites should be unlocked.
    [clears throat] Quite frankly, it is trifling that I cannot use any reasoning without someone crying hearsay.
    Faybal wrote: »
    You can obtain -cp gear. Right now -cp gear is decently cheap because it was spammed in gachas recently.
    i didnt make this thread to get advice, im using this issue as the backbone for the suggestion, its not a complaint. this isnt a complaint thread. its a "look, this game is not suited for high leveled players, heres my proposal" thread.
    anyways alright, you owe me 2 raccoon cub accessories, an ageless raccoon suit, all of your ss tendering pots, and an abysmal pot. gimme gimme, ive got like 5k cp and everything else doesnt lower it enough.
    [gasp] oh wait i cant, because raccoon cubs are supposed to be "rare" (high ranked enchant, 10% enchant rate). oh wait sorry, you use gachas for your argument when its convenient.
    Faybal wrote: »
    I cannot understand a single thing you said, because I cannot follow the logic. How are vet players not getting as much EXP as newer players?
    i said it like 10 times that mobs dont give high cp players exp bc theyre weak, we lose exp gains that way.
    Faybal wrote: »
    They have reduced rewards, and only Elites drop chains/mage gems, because they require passes; this makes them rarer and more difficult to obtain, as well as giving the chains/gems a marketplace base price.
    elites drop chains and mage gems because theyre elites and therefore supposed to be difficult to complete, not just because theyre locked.
    you know the gachas of anything ruins any "marketplace base price" that players decided, so its not that bad.
    Faybal wrote: »
    Another suggestion here! Reset your skills! While re-ranking everything can be quite frustrating (trust me, I know), you avoiding this isn't going to get you anywhere. A skill reset system was implemented for AP refundage, as well as CP lowering.
    i said this before but the reset thing is a bandage on the cp issues, why arent you frustrated about that?
    you play a game just to learn you have to reset your skills and play a little weakling again just to train something, and you train something just to get stronger, and that just leaves the game to be like a zipzap backwards thing rather than a linear way to a playstyle. this is also bad level design.

    Faybal wrote: »
    Evidently, you also do not understand the concept of end-game weapons. If elites were able to be done by everyone, and they did not require the pass, there would be an entire wave of botting for chains/materials, similar to the conflict spam bots (which have been resolved due to conflict's gold rewards decreasing). If chains and other rare materials, such as mage gems, were common, that would cripple the market for end-game equipment as well as giving not-as-advanced players access to equipment typically used by players who have expended a lot of time and effort into progressing into the game. This would not be fair.

    my dude, do you not see end-game gear in gacha months after release? youre like, pretending we live in a vacuum where webshop and nexon doesnt influence the markets and what newbies can get ahold of or not just for the sake of being a wet-willy at me. did you make a million posts complaining about when lava cat robes came out in gachas and everyone got angry that "newbies were wearing lavas now"?

    yeah i know theres bots, but the people running those bots play frequently, get on during elite-pass hottime events, and spam elites regardless of there being a lock. we can think of a separate suggestion to deter bots, but thats not a good counterargument to this suggestion as a whole. make your own suggestion thread.

    [clears throat] Evidently, you do not understand the concept of gachas making it plausable to obtain end-gear weaponry without grinding the missions prior. Or maybe you're so blind as to assume that, perhaps, end-game gear is only as rare as long as you don't come in contact with gachas or gacha influenced markets.

    Faybal wrote: »
    How would you feel if you spent years on progressing a character, and then an update comes out allowing other players to get to your level and character development in less than a month?
    ♩ ♪ ♫u would not believe your eyes♩ ♪ ♫
    ♩ ♪ ♫if those people bought rb cards every week to level faster instead of waiting for 3 weeks to rb back in 2010 fireflies♩ ♪ ♫
    (oh god)
    Faybal wrote: »
    If you are too ignorant to actually comprehend the advice this community has given you, and then decide to bash on our thoughts, while at the same time holding your argument to a higher standard, then there is nothing that I, or probably anyone else here, have to offer you. Complaning and ranting about a topic, and then attacking other's feedback (which seems completely logical to me), is not going to get you anywhere on this forum.
    blah blah im not looking for advice, youre the one attacking me for acclaiming a suggestion (honed in, zapped me for thinking critically about the mechanics)
    ♩cover your ears! ♩
    ♩gasp!♩
    ♩did you know its not complaining to use an example for a suggestion ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫






    [calling all the boys] close the whole suggestion section down, boys. i just learned making any suggestions is not actually suggestions, its just an advice section! lets merge it with the help section. our work here is done.




    Leinei wrote: »
    Insulting your fellows who don't agree with you on your thread is not a good way to gain support. In fact, it is likely to put others off from supporting your thread period.
    its not insulting to disagree with people, and light humor isnt tolerated in these forums regardless of how i put things.
    im having a lot of fun writing replies, and youre so serious that youre making my posts insult you all for me without me even having to try.
    careful, you might get wrinkles on your forehead if you stay here.
    Leinei wrote: »
    Celtic Weapons like Celtic Royal Knight Swords are considered end-game weapons, therefore their materials are rare or expensive. Simple. This is true with Dragon equipment too.
    its supposed to be rare because its an end-game weapon, thats a fair point- until you bring in gachas.
    if a person who doesnt run for the mats gets an end-game weapon regardless because of gachas, or if gachas bring in "end-game tier weapons" to be readily accessible into the markets at any given point in time, then it's trivial that the materials need be rare. do you see my point?
    Leinei wrote: »
    You obviously don't need to go into Elite to rank your skills at this point. Personally, I don't see the issue with the Skill Reset set-up,
    i can understand that, youre stating that the point of playing the game isnt even to be able to train on mobs that grow in difficulty anymore, and that there is a new system in place where you have to debuff and reset your character to train. (this is a prime example of the powercreep overrunning the game mechanics)
    you derank, you retrain, you rerank, and then you can actually play (but i think having to do that is ridiculous, that the mobs even grow in difficulty until a certain point on maps and then stop- we cant train on them anymore because the game is unbalanced)
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,695
    Posts: 313
    Member
    With so many powerful long-time players, it's a little silly that the hardest Shadow Mission difficulty requires a special item to get into. Plus, getting all of these untradeable elite Shadow Mission passes during this event is wasted on newer players like me with characters that aren't strong enough to handle the content yet. I just end up dropping the things on the ground to save inventory space, since they're no use to me either for training/gold farming or selling them to other, stronger players who would be able to get some use out of them. It's a crying shame.

    So, yeah, just ditch the elite passes and let the players who can now wreck 80+% of everything get in as easily as wimps like me can do Basic and Intermediate.
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,775
    Posts: 97
    Member
    Well, thanks for your response :D
    I've said all I had to contribute toward this thread, and I wish you the best of luck in finding your solution.