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Server Merge

Comments

  • AykazmieAykazmie
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 2
    Member
    As a player that has played from the very beginning, I am Pro-Megaserver. I have a lot of time and money into the Tarlach server but just recently I have moved to Alexina because of the lack of players in Tarlach. It frustrates me that I have to start ALL over again because there is no other option!! I recently went to South Korea to visit family and my cousin plays KR mabi and let me just say, it is so much better than NA. For the issue of lag/marketing: Just add more channels! KR Mabi has way more channels than 7(its crazy)! Which amazed me when I watched my cousin play!!
    For the sake of this game, there should be a server merge OR AT LEAST have something we can BUY to transfer our characters/pets to another server if the server merge is to hard to do!!! PLEASE!!!!!
    I love this game because there are no other games out there like it and it saddens me to see it go down the drain because NA won't do anything about the player base and are too focused on Gachas/making money. If they did this, I guarantee it would bring more players/money!
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE..ibegyou :s :'( :( :/
    Foxieekapapa
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 3, 2017
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    ObsimSherri
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of games and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am 100% against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.

    You're one of the few that feel this way. A server merge doesn't always MEAN that it's about to die. Look at how much people are still spending on this game. The point of the merge isn't to consolidate server space and save money, it's for US. The community. It's for us to be able to play with MORE people. MMO. MMO. MMO. :)
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 3, 2017
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.
    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    You're one of the few that feel this way. A server merge doesn't always MEAN that it's about to die. Look at how much people are still spending on this game. The point of the merge isn't to consolidate server space and save money, it's for US. The community. It's for us to be able to play with MORE people. MMO. MMO. MMO. :)

    This mentality (your mentality) is assuming there is already not enough people on Tarlach, on Mari, or on Ruairi with only one channel on each, and/or that a single server can perform as well as four servers can. If a lot of people cannot log into the game (because the single "super mega" server is full), where will they go? ~ To another game is the unfortunate answer. (Ignorant Cheerleader Chants & Smilies Change Nothing).
    Sherri
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Crossx2 wrote: »
    As someone who has switched to Alexina because of the lack of people in Ruairi (and please don't say I'm part of the problem, I held out on Ruairi a long, long time, and contributed to population by running a guild and keeping people together best I could for several years), I am in favor of merging servers. No matter which way we do it, nothing but good can come from giving people on near dead servers a higher population to play alongside.

    I'll admit I'm not an expert at how the game's coding works, nor the limitations the system has. And I'm not familiar with how running servers works. However, specifics aside, I'd say that the idea of a megaserver sounds like the best course of action to me. This opinion comes from my experience playing Mabinogi almost since its launch, seeing my home server live and breathe and then start to fade, switching to the most populated server in a last ditch effort to have people to play the game with, leaving behind all of my levels, skills and items. I've seen 2 servers for myself, and heard much talk of the others, and have played many other games (mmos) where I've seen the good (and the bad) that comes from having a single, large server.

    Lets be honest, whoever it was, Devcat's instruction, or the staff at Nexon, the "New" tag on the Alexina server was left on for far too long. It created an imbalance that no simple solution will fix. Right now, Alexina is practically the megaserver. You could merge the other server(s) in an attempt to balance the population, but the idea has already taken root in the community that Alexina is the place to be. I'm unaware of the specific statistics, but from general understanding, seeing for myself, and hearing people talk, the populations on the other servers (Ruairi and Tarlach the most, but also Mari as well) have suffered greatly. The only long term fix to this, and also the issue of gradual decline in population over time, is to switch to a megaserver now.

    Combining all of the servers into one megaserver would cause a rise in the population. People like myself, and many others, would return to the game, to ensure we have our characters, our gear, see what the new server is like, meet new people. A lot of those people are going to stick around, because the reason they had left the game is gone. I believe a merge would bring life back to the community, the bigger the merge, the larger the effect. This effect is going to last for some time, and it would be a great opening to introduce additional content, to keep people interested, and several fixes, to show the community that the game is still being cared for.
    Changes can be made to deal with a large population on one server, more channels can be added, spawn rates can be boosted, ect. I don't know how much I'll go into detail about my opinions on these things, as I'm sure its something the developers and staff have much more knowledge about.
    There wouldn't be a problem of one server being more laggy or having a worse community than another, because there will only be one server, one community, Mabinogi. All money and effort that is being spent to keep the 4 servers running right now could be combined and focused onto the new server. As the main post in this thread has said, technology is moving forward, and if we want the game to stay relevant and stick around, Mabinogi should move forward as well.
    For an older game like Mabinogi, keeping the community together is something that is very important, because without being in this together, we have less reason to care as a player base, to stick around, to voice our concerns to help both developers and players stay on the same page, to spend money on the game. It is my belief that a megaserver will be a great step towards encouraging all of these things, by making us one community.

    From a player standpoint, I see no reason why a merge of all the servers, or any server, should cause us to lose anything. Characters, pets, names, items, gold.. all of it is just data, and information, right? I understand its more involved than that, but there should be ways to copy the data from different servers, and combine it into one (or more) server(s), without losing anything. It just seems like it would be something that might take time, and a lot of effort. However, I feel the situation requires this time and effort be spent, to ensure the merge is successful, and that people have a reason to stay and play the game after it is complete. People do not want to lose their hard earned progress, which they have spent much of their own time and money on.
    For names, I understand that they are already sort of on the same system. It is possible to add and message people from different servers, two people with the same name could speak to each other in private messages or notes. It just puts a (Server) tag at the end of each name. Why not keep this? Representing our home servers before the merge doesn't sound like a problem to me. And if a few people do have double names, you could give them the option of changing names, or if they choose, to stay the same. The issue of a few people having the same name feels like a very small problem, in comparison to the mass loss of population the game has seen, and will continue to see, until something is done to fix the server imbalance issue. Besides, many new games and platforms, such as steam, already allow people to play games with the same name, just a code or something else to identify them otherwise, and I've never seen nor heard of any large issue arising from this method. If unique names must be had, then at the very least, allow whoever logs on first to have the name, and offer name changes to those who end up with duplicate names. (This is the method I have seen in other mmos when server merges have happened.)
    Guilds are unique, independent of server, there can only be one guild of a name. So if a guild with a name exists on Ruairi, that same guild cannot exist on Alexina, or any of the other servers. Why not keep this as it is, as well? Just transfer all of the guild information to the new server. If transferring them is an issue, remove all players from the guild and bind it to the guild leader, so they can recruit people back after the merge.
    Pets could keep their names just like characters, I don't see why it matters much if a couple of pets are running around with the same name. Or they could be wiped, to allow people to rename their pets, in my opinion pet names are not as important as character names, and are worth sacrificing for a merge. An additional suggestion would be to make pet naming a separate system from character naming, as its always been odd that pet names take up many of the names that would have otherwise been available to players.
    I see no reason for character progress or items to be lost. Bind the characters skills, inventories, dressing room, banks, and pet inventories to the players account, and transfer a copy of that data to the new server. Or, if the dressing room really is an issue, give players ample warning to remove items from it, and at very least, keep a copy of what each account had in the dressing room, and give the items back to them on the new server if they were not able to pull them out in time.

    A server merge, especially one on such a grand scale as merging to a megaserver, is a big event. Many warnings should be given, care should be taken to make sure that nothing is lost or overlooked. If sacrifices do need to be made, they should be laid out for players well in advance. Support should be available to resolve individual issues that arise.
    I can see why it is not something that the devs, nexon, and many players want to deal with. But I, and many other people, do believe that something like this is necessary for the game's survival.
    Personally, I would be willing to give up everything for a server merge. In fact I already have, when I switched to Alexina. Although I did so with the hope that I could return to my account on Ruairi one day if such a merge did happen, and there were people to play with again.
    I think that every possible solution for keeping players characters and items intact should be explored before a decision like that is made, however.

    An MMO is just that, a massively multiplayer online game. Without the multiplayer aspect of that, the game cannot be what it is. If the game is not what it is, then it will be something far less, or worse, nothing at all. This is what I truly believe, why I changed servers, why I post this now. To be able to play this game and enjoy it as it was meant to be, and as it has been all of these years, we need to merge the servers so that the population can be joined, and balanced.

    I wait for the day when I can invest in an account again, and be sure that I will have people to play alongside, because I do love this game.
    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    You're one of the few that feel this way. A server merge doesn't always MEAN that it's about to die. Look at how much people are still spending on this game. The point of the merge isn't to consolidate server space and save money, it's for US. The community. It's for us to be able to play with MORE people. MMO. MMO. MMO. :)

    This mentality (your mentality) is assuming there is already not enough people on Tarlach, on Mari, or on Ruairi with only one channel on each, and/or that a single server can perform as well as four servers can. If a lot of people cannot log into the game (because the single "super mega" server is full), where will they go? ~ To another game is the unfortunate answer. (Ignorant Cheerleader Chants & Smilies Change Nothing).

    Look at the server stats on the wiki for the population %. Even at the peak of each server combined, it wouldn't even fill 75% of a single server. :)
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
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    edited August 4, 2017
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Look at the server stats on the wiki for the population %. Even at the peak of each server combined, it wouldn't even fill 75% of a single server. :)
    You entered the debate with an argument supporting a 'single super server', and this would work out if we were only talking about Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi (and they actually were as empty as people want other people to believe), but Alexina is a part of the picture too and there would not be enough room to include the population of the other 3 servers. I don't care what the wiki says. I have seen all of the channels full on Alexina many many times. The debate was not about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would fit together (without Alexina). The debate was about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, Ruairi, and Alexina could exist on a single server (and judging from the population of Alexina alone; the answer is absolutely no). I was not born yesterday morning, I know what people are and what MMO means. I'm not against people playing the game or against people meeting other people. I'm against this 8 year-old fruitless argument that hasn't come face-to-face with logic one time since it first began. If you log into the game at 3am on a school (or work) day and the server is empty; it's not because the game is dead; it's because you logged in at 3am on a school (or work) day. If you log in when the population SHOULD be low; it should not be so surprising.
    Sherri
  • NegumikoNegumiko
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,860
    Posts: 1,159
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Look at the server stats on the wiki for the population %. Even at the peak of each server combined, it wouldn't even fill 75% of a single server. :)
    You entered the debate with an argument supporting a 'single super server', and this would work out if we were only talking about Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi (and they actually were as empty as people want other people to believe), but Alexina is a part of the picture too and there would not be enough room to include the population of the other 3 servers. I don't care what the wiki says. I have seen all of the channels full on Alexina many many times. The debate was not about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would fit together (without Alexina). The debate was about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, Ruairi, and Alexina could exist on a single server (and judging from the population of Alexina alone; the answer is absolutely no). I was not born yesterday morning, I know what people are and what MMO means. I'm not against people playing the game or against people meeting other people. I'm against this 8 year-old fruitless argument that hasn't come face-to-face with logic one time since it first began. If you log into the game at 3am on a school (or work) day and the server is empty; it's not because the game is dead; it's because you logged in at 3am on a school (or work) day. ~

    the population on Alexina has slowly dropped over the years. only the player market has stayed very active as the shopping channel almost always has busy or full status. maybe when Alexina was really new all the channels were full but these days all the channels except channel 1 say normal and two or three of the other channels are very empty. so your statement earlier is not accurate. last time Alexina was super full was when the gms were visiting servers a few months ago and even that only filled 2 or 3 channels at the most. Alexina does have the largest population however all 7 channels have not been busy or full at once in the past 3 years and it feels like the poplulation is slowly getting worst.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
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    edited August 4, 2017
    Negumiko wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Look at the server stats on the wiki for the population %. Even at the peak of each server combined, it wouldn't even fill 75% of a single server. :)
    You entered the debate with an argument supporting a 'single super server', and this would work out if we were only talking about Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi (and they actually were as empty as people want other people to believe), but Alexina is a part of the picture too and there would not be enough room to include the population of the other 3 servers. I don't care what the wiki says. I have seen all of the channels full on Alexina many many times. The debate was not about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would fit together (without Alexina). The debate was about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, Ruairi, and Alexina could exist on a single server (and judging from the population of Alexina alone; the answer is absolutely no). I was not born yesterday morning, I know what people are and what MMO means. I'm not against people playing the game or against people meeting other people. I'm against this 8 year-old fruitless argument that hasn't come face-to-face with logic one time since it first began. If you log into the game at 3am on a school (or work) day and the server is empty; it's not because the game is dead; it's because you logged in at 3am on a school (or work) day. ~

    the population on Alexina has slowly dropped over the years. only the player market has stayed very active as the shopping channel almost always has busy or full status. maybe when Alexina was really new all the channels were full but these days all the channels except channel 1 say normal and two or three of the other channels are very empty. so your statement earlier is not accurate. last time Alexina was super full was when the gms were visiting servers a few months ago and even that only filled 2 or 3 channels at the most. Alexina does have the largest population however all 7 channels have not been busy or full at once in the past 3 years and it feels like the poplulation is slowly getting worst.

    I emphasized in bold the biggest lie in this topic (perhaps this is true if you're only logging-in in the middle of the night when the majority of the userbase is sleeping, at a time when one should expect the traffic to be low, but you can't claim this as a fact if you aren't here the whole time).

    Alexina is packed to the hilt every time we have a Double Rainbow. I am talking about this year, not years ago or when Alexina was a baby. I have been here every day since the game was first released (believe it or not). I know the difference between then (ages ago) and now (today).

    I don't care what game it is (or who made it); you won't see a high population of American players on American servers during a time when people who breathe a combination of Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen (better known as Air) are sleeping in their beds, or are at work or school.

    The same applies to every other nationality everywhere else on the planet (*omg-u-nationalist-u*). ~ And a hat tip to my friends in Europe.
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Negumiko wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Look at the server stats on the wiki for the population %. Even at the peak of each server combined, it wouldn't even fill 75% of a single server. :)
    You entered the debate with an argument supporting a 'single super server', and this would work out if we were only talking about Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi (and they actually were as empty as people want other people to believe), but Alexina is a part of the picture too and there would not be enough room to include the population of the other 3 servers. I don't care what the wiki says. I have seen all of the channels full on Alexina many many times. The debate was not about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would fit together (without Alexina). The debate was about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, Ruairi, and Alexina could exist on a single server (and judging from the population of Alexina alone; the answer is absolutely no). I was not born yesterday morning, I know what people are and what MMO means. I'm not against people playing the game or against people meeting other people. I'm against this 8 year-old fruitless argument that hasn't come face-to-face with logic one time since it first began. If you log into the game at 3am on a school (or work) day and the server is empty; it's not because the game is dead; it's because you logged in at 3am on a school (or work) day. ~

    the population on Alexina has slowly dropped over the years. only the player market has stayed very active as the shopping channel almost always has busy or full status. maybe when Alexina was really new all the channels were full but these days all the channels except channel 1 say normal and two or three of the other channels are very empty. so your statement earlier is not accurate. last time Alexina was super full was when the gms were visiting servers a few months ago and even that only filled 2 or 3 channels at the most. Alexina does have the largest population however all 7 channels have not been busy or full at once in the past 3 years and it feels like the poplulation is slowly getting worst.

    I emphasized in bold the biggest lie in this topic (perhaps this is true if you're only logging-in in the middle of the night when the majority of the userbase is sleeping, at a time when one should expect the traffic to be low, but you can't claim this as a fact if you aren't here the whole time).

    Alexina is packed to the hilt every time we have a Double Rainbow. I am talking about this year, not years ago or when Alexina was a baby. I have been here every day since the game was first released (believe it or not). I know the difference between then (ages ago) and now (today).

    I don't care what game it is (or who made it); you won't see a high population of American players on American servers during a time when people who breathe a combination of Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen (better known as Air) are sleeping in their beds, or are at work or school.

    The same applies to every other nationality everywhere else on the planet (*omg-u-nationalist-u*). ~ And a hat tip to my friends in Europe.

    But having high population during certain events for small amounts of time throughout the year is not the same as being populated. This just means that it has a population spike because of certain things happening. The original 3 servers are very much dead in terms of % of the servers filled. Although, I still can find a lot of people doing stuff on Ruairi, it still would be nice to have a much larger group. The majority of people are arguing for a server merge for the feel of the game BEFORE Alexina was even created. I remember when the game was very much busy, probably at least 50% full Ruairi you know?

    Having such a small population makes it harder to farm lots of mats and items such as the new stuff for giants, the celtic mats, and the Soluna blade, etc. Having fewer people on a server farming for these mats makes the items less common in general. It makes it harder for any "end game" items to actually be out in the public.

    Your justification of having your server packed during these events is selfish. Very selfish. Try taking into consideration the population of the other servers, and those who are not as lucky to have their server "packed to the hilt" during events, as much as we'd like to see that.

    I want to see a lot of people gathered everywhere. I want it to be hard to find a place to set up shop. There are more places than just Belvast. Remember when Tir even had a lot of shops? And Dunbarton did? That's what I want to come back. :) I don't care if the server is 99% full.
    Negumiko
  • NegumikoNegumiko
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,860
    Posts: 1,159
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    edited August 4, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Negumiko wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Look at the server stats on the wiki for the population %. Even at the peak of each server combined, it wouldn't even fill 75% of a single server. :)
    You entered the debate with an argument supporting a 'single super server', and this would work out if we were only talking about Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi (and they actually were as empty as people want other people to believe), but Alexina is a part of the picture too and there would not be enough room to include the population of the other 3 servers. I don't care what the wiki says. I have seen all of the channels full on Alexina many many times. The debate was not about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would fit together (without Alexina). The debate was about whether or not Tarlach, Mari, Ruairi, and Alexina could exist on a single server (and judging from the population of Alexina alone; the answer is absolutely no). I was not born yesterday morning, I know what people are and what MMO means. I'm not against people playing the game or against people meeting other people. I'm against this 8 year-old fruitless argument that hasn't come face-to-face with logic one time since it first began. If you log into the game at 3am on a school (or work) day and the server is empty; it's not because the game is dead; it's because you logged in at 3am on a school (or work) day. ~

    the population on Alexina has slowly dropped over the years. only the player market has stayed very active as the shopping channel almost always has busy or full status. maybe when Alexina was really new all the channels were full but these days all the channels except channel 1 say normal and two or three of the other channels are very empty. so your statement earlier is not accurate. last time Alexina was super full was when the gms were visiting servers a few months ago and even that only filled 2 or 3 channels at the most. Alexina does have the largest population however all 7 channels have not been busy or full at once in the past 3 years and it feels like the poplulation is slowly getting worst.

    I emphasized in bold the biggest lie in this topic (perhaps this is true if you're only logging-in in the middle of the night when the majority of the userbase is sleeping, at a time when one should expect the traffic to be low, but you can't claim this as a fact if you aren't here the whole time).

    Alexina is packed to the hilt every time we have a Double Rainbow. I am talking about this year, not years ago or when Alexina was a baby. I have been here every day since the game was first released (believe it or not). I know the difference between then (ages ago) and now (today).

    I don't care what game it is (or who made it); you won't see a high population of American players on American servers during a time when people who breathe a combination of Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen (better known as Air) are sleeping in their beds, or are at work or school.

    The same applies to every other nationality everywhere else on the planet (*omg-u-nationalist-u*). ~ And a hat tip to my friends in Europe.

    you are saying every channel on Alexina has a busy or full status quite often even these days. that is completely false, yes the population does rise when we get interesting game updates or events however Alexina server has not reached it's limit or gotten near full for a long time. over the years some channels have become more empty even during the day. I play mabi for about 8 hours almost every day and check the channel status quite often and the only one busy or full is usually channel 1. once or twice earlier this year channel 1 was full and channel 2 was busy however this far from all the channels being busy or full very often like you claim. usually these days channel 1 stays full which is good but the other channels have lost some players. a few big guilds have vanished and some areas are slightly less populated in just this year.
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    But having high population during certain events for small amounts of time throughout the year is not the same as being populated. This just means that it has a population spike because of certain things happening. The original 3 servers are very much dead in terms of % of the servers filled. Although, I still can find a lot of people doing stuff on Ruairi, it still would be nice to have a much larger group. The majority of people are arguing for a server merge for the feel of the game BEFORE Alexina was even created. I remember when the game was very much busy, probably at least 50% full Ruairi you know?

    Having such a small population makes it harder to farm lots of mats and items such as the new stuff for giants, the celtic mats, and the Soluna blade, etc. Having fewer people on a server farming for these mats makes the items less common in general. It makes it harder for any "end game" items to actually be out in the public.

    Your justification of having your server packed during these events is selfish. Very selfish. Try taking into consideration the population of the other servers, and those who are not as lucky to have their server "packed to the hilt" during events, as much as we'd like to see that.

    I want to see a lot of people gathered everywhere. I want it to be hard to find a place to set up shop. There are more places than just Belvast. Remember when Tir even had a lot of shops? And Dunbarton did? That's what I want to come back. :) I don't care if the server is 99% full.

    I agree, it would be nice to have a server full of lots of players again. there are way more then two towns to sell stuff in but almost all personal shops are in Dunbarton and Belvast. all the servers are slowly suffering from losing players and Alexina is no exception. Alexina may still be very active but it is far from being as great as it once was. back when Alexina was new you could find players in almost every town of the game and players would randomly use the party board and do dungeon runs. all the servers could improve from a server merge and it unfair to leave any server out.

  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
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    edited August 5, 2017
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.
    Sherri
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
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    edited August 5, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.

    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 5, 2017
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    I wasn't arguing until it became apparent my opinion does not have the same value as every other opinion.

    This translates to: If you don't like my opinion, piss off and move to something else (or something you do like).

    In the context of the discussion (about the population); not being able to login means exactly what was implied.
    Now that we got that out of the way; I could apply the same smart-assery to this entire topic and everyone in it (what made you target me?). This crap story debate has been dragging on (despite being officially told no by Nexon) for the past nine years. ~ And people still refuse to drop it.

    ~ I'll bet my bottom dollar your reply to me was everything but random (shill badger much?).
    Sherri
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited August 5, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    I wasn't arguing until it became apparent my opinion does not have the same value as every other opinion.

    This translates to: If you don't like my opinion, piss off and move to something else, or something you do like

    In the context of the discussion (about population); not being able to login means exactly what was implied.

    Just because people don't agree with you it does not drop value of your opinion. Give them reasons why you disagree instead of 'No, I don't want to see this thread, I just don't like seeing it, other MMOs died because of server merge(where's examples?Also does it fit in mabi's case, where 3 servers are underpopulated?),they're not going to do it so don't bother(this is literally why people keep suggesting), it's been going on since 2009 blah blah' (comes from Alexina player, which definetly does not need server merge)

    No, you can post even if you don't like my opinion. But 'I just don't like seeing this thread' isn't an opinion. What I wrote above meant, if you don't play underpopulated servers, then don't speak for them just because you don't like seeing server merge thread.


    Your opinion is what? Game is going to die if they merge servers, b/c people won't be able to login due to overpopulation? Since when mabi was that populated? Are they really not going to increase server capacity, when they are merging 3~2 servers to one, and only have to keep 2~3 servers up instead of 4? From what I see, one of reason why people quit is because they literally cannot do anything b/c population being small. Maybe you don't understand this because you're in Alexina. Do you even consider the fact that 'having underpopulated server sucks?' Most people don't even suggest other servers than Alexina for newbies because 'other servers suck due to population' 'Other 3 servers are "empty"' I'm pretty sure 90% of newbies pick Alexina as their server. Good for them, they don't have to suffer, but in other servers. more people leave than new people join or come back.
    Also you gave pretty poor solution : 'reduce all channel to 1', which I stated above, very,very poor solution. At least before suggesting something, think about cons? You know, there are still 'some' people who play there.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Now that we got that out of the way; I could apply the same smart-assery to this entire topic and everyone in it (what made you target me?). This crap story debate has been dragging on (despite being officially told no by Nexon) for the past nine years. ~ And people still refuse to drop it.

    ~ I'll bet my bottom dollar your reply to me was everything but random (shill badger much?).

    Again. if you just don't like the thread,without any logic, just don't view it. End of story. I targeted you because your "opinion (supposedly)" had no logic in it and just a long essay of crying "I don't like this thread, please STOOOOOP!"
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 5, 2017
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    I wasn't arguing until it became apparent my opinion does not have the same value as every other opinion.

    This translates to: If you don't like my opinion, piss off and move to something else, or something you do like

    In the context of the discussion (about population); not being able to login means exactly what was implied.

    Just because people don't agree with you it does not drop value of your opinion. Give them reasons why you disagree instead of 'No, I don't want to see this thread, I just don't like seeing it, other MMOs died because of server merge(where's examples?Also does it fit in mabi's case, where 3 servers are underpopulated?),they're not going to do it so don't bother(this is literally why people keep suggesting), it's been going on since 2009 blah blah' (comes from Alexina player, which definetly does not need server merge)

    No, you can post even if you don't like my opinion. But 'I just don't like seeing this thread' isn't an opinion. What I wrote above meant, if you don't play underpopulated servers, then don't speak for them just because you don't like seeing server merge thread.


    Your opinion is what? Game is going to die if they merge servers, b/c people won't be able to login due to overpopulation? Since when mabi was that populated? Are they really not going to increase server capacity, when they are merging 3~2 servers to one, and only have to keep 2~3 servers up instead of 4? From what I see, one of reason why people quit is because they literally cannot do anything b/c population being small. Maybe you don't understand this because you're in Alexina. Do you even consider the fact that 'having underpopulated server sucks?' Most people don't even suggest other servers than Alexina for newbies because 'other servers suck due to population' 'Other 3 servers are "empty"' I'm pretty sure 90% of newbies pick Alexina as their server. Good for them, they don't have to suffer, but in other servers. more people leave than new people join or come back.
    Also you gave pretty poor solution : 'reduce all channel to 1', which I stated above, very,very poor solution. At least before suggesting something, think about cons? You know, there are still 'some' people who play there.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Now that we got that out of the way; I could apply the same smart-assery to this entire topic and everyone in it (what made you target me?). This crap story debate has been dragging on (despite being officially told no by Nexon) for the past nine years. ~ And people still refuse to drop it.

    ~ I'll bet my bottom dollar your reply to me was everything but random (shill badger much?).

    Again. if you just don't like the thread,without any logic, just don't view it. End of story.

    I find it very hard to believe you came here fresh off the block and happened upon this discussion today. This smells an awful lot like being served and using a shill or an alt to serve it back to the one who served you. If you'd like to have a personal discussion and/or feel the need to further attack me; send me a private message. ~ No amount of harassing me will make this dead-on-arrival-topic happen.

    The definition of windbag is someone who talks at length and says little of value. ~ Take a good look around.
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited August 5, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    I wasn't arguing until it became apparent my opinion does not have the same value as every other opinion.

    This translates to: If you don't like my opinion, piss off and move to something else, or something you do like

    In the context of the discussion (about population); not being able to login means exactly what was implied.

    Just because people don't agree with you it does not drop value of your opinion. Give them reasons why you disagree instead of 'No, I don't want to see this thread, I just don't like seeing it, other MMOs died because of server merge(where's examples?Also does it fit in mabi's case, where 3 servers are underpopulated?),they're not going to do it so don't bother(this is literally why people keep suggesting), it's been going on since 2009 blah blah' (comes from Alexina player, which definetly does not need server merge)

    No, you can post even if you don't like my opinion. But 'I just don't like seeing this thread' isn't an opinion. What I wrote above meant, if you don't play underpopulated servers, then don't speak for them just because you don't like seeing server merge thread.


    Your opinion is what? Game is going to die if they merge servers, b/c people won't be able to login due to overpopulation? Since when mabi was that populated? Are they really not going to increase server capacity, when they are merging 3~2 servers to one, and only have to keep 2~3 servers up instead of 4? From what I see, one of reason why people quit is because they literally cannot do anything b/c population being small. Maybe you don't understand this because you're in Alexina. Do you even consider the fact that 'having underpopulated server sucks?' Most people don't even suggest other servers than Alexina for newbies because 'other servers suck due to population' 'Other 3 servers are "empty"' I'm pretty sure 90% of newbies pick Alexina as their server. Good for them, they don't have to suffer, but in other servers. more people leave than new people join or come back.
    Also you gave pretty poor solution : 'reduce all channel to 1', which I stated above, very,very poor solution. At least before suggesting something, think about cons? You know, there are still 'some' people who play there.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Now that we got that out of the way; I could apply the same smart-assery to this entire topic and everyone in it (what made you target me?). This crap story debate has been dragging on (despite being officially told no by Nexon) for the past nine years. ~ And people still refuse to drop it.

    ~ I'll bet my bottom dollar your reply to me was everything but random (shill badger much?).

    Again. if you just don't like the thread,without any logic, just don't view it. End of story.

    I find it very hard to believe you came here fresh off the block and happened upon this discussion today. This smells an awful lot like being served and using a shill or an alt to serve it back to the one who served you. If you'd like to have a personal discussion and/or feel the need to further attack me; send me a private message. ~ No amount of harassing me will make this dead-on-arrival-topic happen.

    The definition of windbag is someone who talks at length and says little of value. ~ Take a good look around.

    Just because forum record look like new, doesn't mean it's an alt. Wish old forums were alive to prove. I like to look around, but I post very few because I only post about something that disturbs me. I wasn't 'attacking' you(Did I insult you or something?), and I'm sorry if I was offending you. Was it too harsh that it made you think 'it's an alt to attack me'? Nope, I'm not here to 'attack you',I personally didn't like your reasons so I wrote post against it. My posts came out not so kindly worded, but if you look at yours, yours isn't nice either. I am not going to continue discussion with you because you seem like you'd like to stop, and I don't have anything to send as private message either.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 5, 2017
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    I wasn't arguing until it became apparent my opinion does not have the same value as every other opinion.

    This translates to: If you don't like my opinion, piss off and move to something else, or something you do like

    In the context of the discussion (about population); not being able to login means exactly what was implied.

    Just because people don't agree with you it does not drop value of your opinion. Give them reasons why you disagree instead of 'No, I don't want to see this thread, I just don't like seeing it, other MMOs died because of server merge(where's examples?Also does it fit in mabi's case, where 3 servers are underpopulated?),they're not going to do it so don't bother(this is literally why people keep suggesting), it's been going on since 2009 blah blah' (comes from Alexina player, which definetly does not need server merge)

    No, you can post even if you don't like my opinion. But 'I just don't like seeing this thread' isn't an opinion. What I wrote above meant, if you don't play underpopulated servers, then don't speak for them just because you don't like seeing server merge thread.


    Your opinion is what? Game is going to die if they merge servers, b/c people won't be able to login due to overpopulation? Since when mabi was that populated? Are they really not going to increase server capacity, when they are merging 3~2 servers to one, and only have to keep 2~3 servers up instead of 4? From what I see, one of reason why people quit is because they literally cannot do anything b/c population being small. Maybe you don't understand this because you're in Alexina. Do you even consider the fact that 'having underpopulated server sucks?' Most people don't even suggest other servers than Alexina for newbies because 'other servers suck due to population' 'Other 3 servers are "empty"' I'm pretty sure 90% of newbies pick Alexina as their server. Good for them, they don't have to suffer, but in other servers. more people leave than new people join or come back.
    Also you gave pretty poor solution : 'reduce all channel to 1', which I stated above, very,very poor solution. At least before suggesting something, think about cons? You know, there are still 'some' people who play there.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Now that we got that out of the way; I could apply the same smart-assery to this entire topic and everyone in it (what made you target me?). This crap story debate has been dragging on (despite being officially told no by Nexon) for the past nine years. ~ And people still refuse to drop it.

    ~ I'll bet my bottom dollar your reply to me was everything but random (shill badger much?).

    Again. if you just don't like the thread,without any logic, just don't view it. End of story.
    I find it very hard to believe you came here fresh off the block and happened upon this discussion today. This smells an awful lot like being served and using a shill or an alt to serve it back to the one who served you. If you'd like to have a personal discussion and/or feel the need to further attack me; send me a private message. ~ No amount of harassing me will make this dead-on-arrival-topic happen.

    The definition of windbag is someone who talks at length and says little of value. ~ Take a good look around.

    Just because forum record look like new, doesn't mean it's an alt. Wish old forums were alive to prove. I like to look around, but I post very few because I only post about something that disturbs me. I wasn't 'attacking' you(Did I insult you or something?), and I'm sorry if I was offending you. Was it too harsh that it made you think 'it's an alt to attack me'? Nope, I'm not here to 'attack you',I personally didn't like your reasons so I wrote post against it. My posts came out not so kindly worded, but if you look at yours, yours isn't nice either. I am not going to continue discussion with you because you seem like you'd like to stop, and I don't have anything to send as private message either.

    I'm not talking about whether or not you are new. In fact, I don't care if you've been here for a hundred years. I am talking about the idea that you made an account for the sole purpose of trying to drag me through the mud; in a thread where people are seemingly under the impression that harassing me will somehow grant them their wish. Acknowledging offline players when they are not being acknowledged, as a part of the server population, is not the type of thing we put up for auction or debate in a forum thread. So,... your opinion of my opinion doesn't matter.
  • Unwanted2Unwanted2
    Mabinogi Rep: 805
    Posts: 17
    Member
    edited August 5, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    Why are you arguing here if it ain't going to change anything?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »

    Define Windbag...

    As someone who has played hundreds of mmo-rpgs and someone who has experienced many server merges, I am absolutely against this. A server merge would be detrimental to our community, whether you see it clearly now or not. Like I said in the other forum (in the same debate), a server merge is a step taken before a game dies, to condense and reduce the costs of server upkeep. I refuse to watch this game die at the hands of a few careless people. A channel-merge (on low traffic servers) would provide you the traffic you're looking for. (I'm not a fan of server-cide).

    Mabinogi (whether you realize it or not) is a business. Imagine the lag (speed of movement) if Walmart condensed all of their checkouts (or their bathrooms) into one single super-checkout (or super-bathroom). It would satisfy some people and drive others away. This constant server-merge proposal is no different than that; and the lag (speed of movement) would not be any better.

    I say constant because.. this has been going on since 2009. (This topic is as old as mold and tastes just as bad as it did back then).
    Seriously. Put it into perspective.... If a game (any game) is too populated for a person to log into (at any given moment); they'll play a different game. No one likes to wait in a line, get disconnected a few minutes later, and then wait in line again. ~ It usually goes over like a lead balloon.
    You also have to consider a ton of other things, but I am sick to death of this topic. It would help a lot if the people who keep this topic alive understood what they are asking for (or at least understood the purpose & restraints of a server|channel cluster and the processor it runs in).
    The folks on Tarlach, Mari, and Ruairi would have a much better case (in their favor) if they were all reduced to one channel each and had no visible population. ~ If that were the case; This topic (the eight year-old server merge request from hell) would have an actual leg to stand on.
    If people can't login, that's not because server is too populated, it's because server sucks. It's known fact that mabinogi server is unstable. Population isn't problem. Mabinogi won't be overpopulated even if Mari,Ruairi, Tarlarch all gets merged together. Besides, why would they not increase server capacity if they put 3 servers in one.
    And suggesting reduction of channel is just blatant ignorant. First, there aren't that much people in other channels, you won't even see difference in population even if channels are reduced to 1. Second, people are going to suffer from lack of farming space, i.e Hillwen and Shyllien. Also, are you asking those servers to have only one dragon at a time? How ignorant....
    If you're so tired of this topic, why don't you just ignore this thread? Seriously, it's just this thread.
    People from Alexina shouldn't complain about seeing this thread, because it is not their problem. It's about servers that suffer from lack of population. Even if they decide to take action, Alexina won't be affected because they are fine. If it make you feel uncomfortable and tired, just ignore it.

    I wasn't arguing until it became apparent my opinion does not have the same value as every other opinion.

    This translates to: If you don't like my opinion, piss off and move to something else, or something you do like

    In the context of the discussion (about population); not being able to login means exactly what was implied.

    Just because people don't agree with you it does not drop value of your opinion. Give them reasons why you disagree instead of 'No, I don't want to see this thread, I just don't like seeing it, other MMOs died because of server merge(where's examples?Also does it fit in mabi's case, where 3 servers are underpopulated?),they're not going to do it so don't bother(this is literally why people keep suggesting), it's been going on since 2009 blah blah' (comes from Alexina player, which definetly does not need server merge)

    No, you can post even if you don't like my opinion. But 'I just don't like seeing this thread' isn't an opinion. What I wrote above meant, if you don't play underpopulated servers, then don't speak for them just because you don't like seeing server merge thread.


    Your opinion is what? Game is going to die if they merge servers, b/c people won't be able to login due to overpopulation? Since when mabi was that populated? Are they really not going to increase server capacity, when they are merging 3~2 servers to one, and only have to keep 2~3 servers up instead of 4? From what I see, one of reason why people quit is because they literally cannot do anything b/c population being small. Maybe you don't understand this because you're in Alexina. Do you even consider the fact that 'having underpopulated server sucks?' Most people don't even suggest other servers than Alexina for newbies because 'other servers suck due to population' 'Other 3 servers are "empty"' I'm pretty sure 90% of newbies pick Alexina as their server. Good for them, they don't have to suffer, but in other servers. more people leave than new people join or come back.
    Also you gave pretty poor solution : 'reduce all channel to 1', which I stated above, very,very poor solution. At least before suggesting something, think about cons? You know, there are still 'some' people who play there.
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Now that we got that out of the way; I could apply the same smart-assery to this entire topic and everyone in it (what made you target me?). This crap story debate has been dragging on (despite being officially told no by Nexon) for the past nine years. ~ And people still refuse to drop it.

    ~ I'll bet my bottom dollar your reply to me was everything but random (shill badger much?).

    Again. if you just don't like the thread,without any logic, just don't view it. End of story.
    I find it very hard to believe you came here fresh off the block and happened upon this discussion today. This smells an awful lot like being served and using a shill or an alt to serve it back to the one who served you. If you'd like to have a personal discussion and/or feel the need to further attack me; send me a private message. ~ No amount of harassing me will make this dead-on-arrival-topic happen.

    The definition of windbag is someone who talks at length and says little of value. ~ Take a good look around.

    Just because forum record look like new, doesn't mean it's an alt. Wish old forums were alive to prove. I like to look around, but I post very few because I only post about something that disturbs me. I wasn't 'attacking' you(Did I insult you or something?), and I'm sorry if I was offending you. Was it too harsh that it made you think 'it's an alt to attack me'? Nope, I'm not here to 'attack you',I personally didn't like your reasons so I wrote post against it. My posts came out not so kindly worded, but if you look at yours, yours isn't nice either. I am not going to continue discussion with you because you seem like you'd like to stop, and I don't have anything to send as private message either.

    I'm not talking about whether or not you are new. In fact, I don't care if you've been here for a hundred years. I am talking about the idea that you made an account for the sole purpose of trying to drag me through the mud; in a thread where people are seemingly under the impression that harassing me will somehow grant them their wish. Acknowledging offline players when they are not being acknowledged, as a part of the server population, is not the type of thing we put up for auction or debate in a forum thread. So,... your opinion of my opinion doesn't matter.
    Again, I'm not here to attack you. In fact, no one is attacking you. They're disagreeing with you, just like you disagree with them. If disagreeing with someone is somehow attacking, then you were attacking others, too.
    It's hard to measure server population considering offline players because 1)they could be inactive for god knows when, you'd have to exclude people who has been offline for 5+ months. 2) They could be alts with purpose of event exploit. (Who only logs in for event rewards like hot time event).
  • OligarchyOligarchy
    Mabinogi Rep: 430
    Posts: 12
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    I don't think you're really taking into consideration what anyone else says. I have no idea why you think that the game is populated enough, but it isn't.

    Also, I said if you follow the wiki and check at PEAK TIMES the server population. I'm tired of arguing with someone that isn't important enough to do anything about it anyways. I highly doubt anyone from Nexon even reads or cares about these forums, just like they obviously don't care about us and what the majority of people want.

    Like I said before, I don't understand why you are so against a server merge. You are literally fighting to NOT have one. Are you worried your name will be taken? Or that you will lose everything? Even if they decided to do a server merge, I doubt anything would be lost (aside from the naming conflict -- which could just be : give the oldest character who is active within like 30-60 days or so priority for the name).

    Regardless, it seems that you're playing a different Mabinogi than everyone else.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 6, 2017
    @Oligarchy
    Oligarchy wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Negumiko , @Oligarchy

    The meter shown on character creation is the online-population of the server at that moment in time. It has nothing to do with the total offline-population of the server (on and offline users are not calculated together). The only way for that meter to show the total population is for every single user to be logged on at the same time. It's not fair for people who are not online at the same time you are to be cataloged as non-existing or not worth the time of day when considering the total server population. The world isn't flat and the sun can't be on both sides of the planet at the same time; no matter whose asp you kiss. You can argue, and fuss, and disagree with me all day long, all day strong; it's not going to make anything change a tiny bit (I don't work for Nexon). As they have stated several times officially; they are not planning to merge the servers.

    This is like arguing over an estate you're not entitled to; in the presence of its owner. As though they are invisible, dead, or have no upper hand.

    I don't think you're really taking into consideration what anyone else says. I have no idea why you think that the game is populated enough, but it isn't.

    Also, I said if you follow the wiki and check at PEAK TIMES the server population. I'm tired of arguing with someone that isn't important enough to do anything about it anyways. I highly doubt anyone from Nexon even reads or cares about these forums, just like they obviously don't care about us and what the majority of people want.

    Like I said before, I don't understand why you are so against a server merge. You are literally fighting to NOT have one. Are you worried your name will be taken? Or that you will lose everything? Even if they decided to do a server merge, I doubt anything would be lost (aside from the naming conflict -- which could just be : give the oldest character who is active within like 30-60 days or so priority for the name).

    Regardless, it seems that you're playing a different Mabinogi than everyone else.
    The part I marked in bold is proof you know nothing about me. Literally nothing. If you were able to go back a few hundred pages and actually knew who you were talking to, you'd know I was the person who explained why names are not an issue (unless of course -like this discussion- they're made into an issue). Users with the same name can co-exist on the same server, in much the same way as items with the same names do.

    In terms of data, our names are an "insignificant decoration" used for in-game identity. ~ Character | Pet data is cataloged by ID # (not names).

    (A fail attempt to patronize me).
    @Unwanted2
    Unwanted2 wrote: »
    Again, I'm not here to attack you. In fact, no one is attacking you. They're disagreeing with you, just like you disagree with them. If disagreeing with someone is somehow attacking, then you were attacking others, too.
    It's hard to measure server population considering offline players because 1)they could be inactive for god knows when, you'd have to exclude people who has been offline for 5+ months. 2) They could be alts with purpose of event exploit. (Who only logs in for event rewards like hot time event).
    It's very apparent neither of you two have actually read anything I said (in the context under which it was said). This thread is a combination of dozens of combined and merged threads (atop a 9-year continuation carried over across two dead forums and into a third). Don't sit there and tell me my acknowledging offline players as part of the userbase is something you disagree with, because it was not up for a debate. We do not have the right to determine who gets to play Mabinogi and who does not; no matter what interpretation of the population anyone has.

    Regarding your private message: .. I took it personal because folks like you made it personal.

    The meter shown when you first make a character is a representation of the online population at the moment. I don't care if you agree with me or not, that is a fact. (It is not a representation of the total population of the server). You cannot determine the total population using that meter, nor can you disavow offline users just because "they weren't online" when you (the great you) looked at the meter. The same applies to sleeping on opposite sides of the globe. ~ I wonder how many people complaining about a low population (on USA servers) are in Europe and Oceania.

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