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Assistance in a long term decision

Comments

  • VaniaVania
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,065
    Posts: 74
    Member
    Nilrem wrote: »
    The main point of trying to decide early is so I can prepare as much as possible.
    I'm also pretty sure the dex difference is very large, more than 200.
    After checking wiki, the difference is about 400, especially if you count echo stones and multi grandmasters.
    Based on what I know of Chain Slash, that is about 200 or so max damage, if not more. A large difference when you consider skill damages.

    Just want to point out, in the long term, you'll be able to achieve the dex cap on giant, with the use of catering. In other words, you can achieve the same amount of dex that an elf has.
    The cap is 1500+250+130 = 1880

    Dex from skills+talent+1gm per wiki = 718
    Dex from 5 other gm talents = 25
    Giant's base dex + starlet hero talent bonus = 21
    Age up bonus, with starlet hero talent = 58
    248 level ups (199+49) @ age 10 with starlet hero talent = 248
    Alban Knight Emblem Lvl 5 dex = 25
    Totem with 20 dex = 20
    Maxed dex echostone = 130
    Shine of Eweca at lvl 200 = not really sure, but going by wiki, it's 85*(roughly 480% at lvl 200k @ 40k lvl cap) = 408. I'm assuming giant's get the same % multiplier as humans at 40k lvl cap. Can't really confirm since my giant is only 20k lvls...
    Catering club sandwich (33-35 dex each) * 10 = 330-350

    I haven't even listed titles, enchants, or transformation. This already adds up well past the cap (2000+ dex).

    So what does this all mean? Dex doesn't matter... so look at what else adds damage to Chain Slash - luck. All skills that give luck are the same across all races, so there's no difference there. Since elves can cap dex way easier, they have an edge here by selecting a luck based talent such as Commerce.

    Anyway, seriously... just enjoy the game and stop focusing so much on max damage or whatever. Pick the skills you like to use, the style you like to play, and at end game it really doesn't matter if you're a human/elf/giant... you can still clear any content easily. Not sure what you're worried about.
  • EllisyaEllisya
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,315
    Posts: 485
    Member
    edited August 28, 2017
    After reading all your replies, it sounds like you want people convince yourself to choose elf no matter what.
    I don't understand why did you ask in the first place when your mind already chose which one... Just do whatever you want. Personally I would remain what you have grinded so far.

    And after all, I'm not a perfectionist who want to max max everything and aim for like end end end game anyways. Just because something is or looks slightly better than what I have, doesn't mean I have to go for that everytime. It just sounds way too greedy.
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    Vania wrote: »
    with the use of catering.
    starlet hero talent
    shine of eweca

    Well, you seemed to have unintentionally killed any argument I had left for telling myself to remain giant.

    I mean, why match capped dex via catering when giant when I can have that dex naturally as an elf and use catering for say, max luck?
    Or even catering for other things like survivability? I have a cooking cart so I can very easily make ultra effective def/prot dishes.

    On top of this, thanks for using an ace talent as a "way for giants to hit the cap". Even further supports the elf side.

    And lastly, shine of eweca was never in the equation on this decision. Neither the elf or giant are even 10k yet.

    So congrats, I guess I'll begin preparing for the move back to elf.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    I'm just gonna leave this here....
    Mmm, I see... so they do still outdamage the elves and depending on what % damage for some Chainslash skills they have... the 30 more max damage from the giants will be more noticeable because of the multiplier and even more noticeable when you use red upgrade on those weapons.. so I'm still pretty ticked about that, to be honest, haha.

    But you do have a good point that giants probably won't be maining the Chainslash but if we are going to include the Strength in the account for giants... I have been doing some thinking and well.. if you put in the account of GMing all talents, they'd also get more Strength compared to before and they also get some Strength from Eweca skill and I'd assume giants get some strength naturally from leveling up too, with talent or not... and if you includes divine-linking your pet, the giant should almost be able to cap their Strength along with Dex so...

    Lets do some math... assuming elves get the max of 931 with all the stats while giants get (roughly) 961 with all the stats PLUS Ladeca skill on...

    Lets say one of the chainslash skillsets do 1000% damage at r1.

    1000% x 931 would be equal to 9310 while 1000% x 961 would be equal to 9610.

    Now... just having r1 critical hit would do 2.5x more damage everytime you crit plus level 50 Yvona renown to add 10% more crit and maybe step7 red upgrade which add in.. lets say maybe 75% for the chainslash weapon... so 3.35x crit.

    For elves... 9310 x 3.35 = 31188.5
    For giants... 9610 x 3.35 = 32193.5

    That's more than 1k difference of damage...

    Now, let's factor the BFO and bone dragon chip (or weapon power potion) with those damage... I'll use... lets say... 40% BFO and the bone dragon chip increases the damage by 50%.

    For elves... 31188.5 x BFO 40% = 43663.9
    For giants... 32193.5 x BFO 40% = 45070.9
    ..............
    For elves... 43663.9 w/ Bone Dragon Chip or Weapon Power Potion = 65495.85
    For giants... 45070.9 w/ Bone Dragon Chip or Weapon Power Potion = 67606.35

    So... yeah, there you go... 2k difference between the elves and giants in term of Chainslash damage... and I'm not sure if we'll get reforge stuffs for chainslash and if they'd add in more damage multipler or not but they'll be the factor in making giants end up doing more damage too if we do end up getting reforges that increase the damage multiplier for Chainslash skills ... of course, that is assuming the max damage formula for Chainslash is 2.5 dex per 1 max and 4 luck per 1 max so...

    Giants should do more damage with the talent. but its only a 2k damage difference.
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    I'm just gonna leave this here....
    Mmm, I see... so they do still outdamage the elves and depending on what % damage for some Chainslash skills they have... the 30 more max damage from the giants will be more noticeable because of the multiplier and even more noticeable when you use red upgrade on those weapons.. so I'm still pretty ticked about that, to be honest, haha.

    But you do have a good point that giants probably won't be maining the Chainslash but if we are going to include the Strength in the account for giants... I have been doing some thinking and well.. if you put in the account of GMing all talents, they'd also get more Strength compared to before and they also get some Strength from Eweca skill and I'd assume giants get some strength naturally from leveling up too, with talent or not... and if you includes divine-linking your pet, the giant should almost be able to cap their Strength along with Dex so...

    Lets do some math... assuming elves get the max of 931 with all the stats while giants get (roughly) 961 with all the stats PLUS Ladeca skill on...

    Lets say one of the chainslash skillsets do 1000% damage at r1.

    1000% x 931 would be equal to 9310 while 1000% x 961 would be equal to 9610.

    Now... just having r1 critical hit would do 2.5x more damage everytime you crit plus level 50 Yvona renown to add 10% more crit and maybe step7 red upgrade which add in.. lets say maybe 75% for the chainslash weapon... so 3.35x crit.

    For elves... 9310 x 3.35 = 31188.5
    For giants... 9610 x 3.35 = 32193.5

    That's more than 1k difference of damage...

    Now, let's factor the BFO and bone dragon chip (or weapon power potion) with those damage... I'll use... lets say... 40% BFO and the bone dragon chip increases the damage by 50%.

    For elves... 31188.5 x BFO 40% = 43663.9
    For giants... 32193.5 x BFO 40% = 45070.9
    ..............
    For elves... 43663.9 w/ Bone Dragon Chip or Weapon Power Potion = 65495.85
    For giants... 45070.9 w/ Bone Dragon Chip or Weapon Power Potion = 67606.35

    So... yeah, there you go... 2k difference between the elves and giants in term of Chainslash damage... and I'm not sure if we'll get reforge stuffs for chainslash and if they'd add in more damage multipler or not but they'll be the factor in making giants end up doing more damage too if we do end up getting reforges that increase the damage multiplier for Chainslash skills ... of course, that is assuming the max damage formula for Chainslash is 2.5 dex per 1 max and 4 luck per 1 max so...

    Giants should do more damage with the talent. but its only a 2k damage difference.

    During a temporary maybe once a day passive, yes.
    But I count that as a negative to the giant side as being an elf means having similar nonstop.

    Not only that, but the sheer amount of perfection needed to pull off theories like this is absurd.
    Something only a handful of players will ever come close to reaching.
    Being 40k levels in total is not a common thing. Such is why I never count shine of eweca.
  • logomyegologomyego
    Mabinogi Rep: 595
    Posts: 23
    Member
    Giants are allegedly out classing Elves at the new chain slash talent. This is due to the racial buff that giants have which adds 10% melee damage. Either race will be good at that talent though and you should just choose which one you find more fun to play as, which you said you enjoy giants more. I prefer Elves cause they are the underdog in the majority of the talents, and they run faster. Plus Hide-ra is killer combo for Elves :3

    So, choose which you prefer to play as, which you have already stated you like giants. If you choose giant, you get melee skills to fall back on when you need them, whereas Elf, you only get magic. Sure Elves have melee too, but the damage reduction they get is just sad and not worth for end game content IMO.