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What would you like to see in a Elf Overhaul?

Comments

  • FeliceFelice
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,490
    Posts: 98
    Member
    even though I do not main an elf, I still feel that they are left in the dust by human and giants in pretty much every area, besides running speed.

    I'll bring up my two main suggestions for helping balance out elves.

    1: Two new bows made out of Shylien, a lower tier bow that doubles as a "Trinity" Grade Staff, damage wise, about par with a LLB with a Magic Attack Stat as a crafted bonus. A Higher tier bow that doubles as a "Hermit" Grade Staff, with around HLB or something similar for damage, with Lv 1 Pierce by default. Making both of them Elf Only would work out well as a buff for elves.

    2: Add Rapiers to the Lance Weapons Pool, allowing them to be used with Lance Skills. Rapiers, throughout history, have been thrusting weapons. They don't need to be so broken that they get Bash and Rage as well, but giving them a natural pierce level and allowing them to use reduced range and damage Lance skills, will give Elves more melee options.

    2b: Make a Shylien Mana Rapier. Literally a Rapier with the same magic casting properties as a Shylien Mana Knuckle. If Merlin can do this to a set of knuckles, why can't elves do the same to a hilt guard on a rapier?

    3: Expand on Elf-Friendly Heavy Armor. There are maybe 2-3 sets of actual Heavy Armor that elves can wear. I say this gets expanded on for non-archer elves. Also swapping the dex penalty in heavy armor with elves and giants. It makes no sense that Giants start with -30% and end at -10% while elves are shafted with a flat -50%

    As far as the hide ability, darker skin or changes to magic missile or mirage missile, I don't know enough about those skills to make any kind of claim
    Leinei
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Being able to use magic missile outside of trans at a dura loss, with trans without dura loss.
    Buff its damage because it sucks.
    Make it actually deal damage with a wand/staff equipped and make the damage scale with dex/magic attack depending on what weapon you use magic missile with.

    Give final shot a timer like way of the gun instead of having to unload and reload the skill every single time you need to load a skill because for europeans that's a freaking 6s delay at times. Make it that you don't use dura while it's active. Make it just a tad longer because it's really short. At least as long as final hit.

    Mirage missile is already lovely.


    Increase elf magic balance on magic mastery.
    Give them extra damage and faster charge on a few of the skills, particularly on the bolt spells, where we essentially get no advantage.

    Adjust hide's cooldown depending on the aggro speed of the monster that hit you. If you got hit by something that aggroes very slowly - your fault. If you get hit by 33525023538 monsters that spawn around you and aggro at a delay of literally 0s, it better also let you use it again in 5s or so.

    Allow elves to dual wield axes, but don't buff their damage with them. They do need a disadvantage.

    Implement a cool-looking elf-only light-armor set that acts as a replacement for bohemian in terms of effects.
    Implement an elf-only tribolt wand and elf-only staves which are each minimally better than the celtic ones.

    Implement racial skill for earth magic that deals physical damage, but scales with magic attack.

    Update existing elf-ally enchants and make them more useful, add some more that require elf-only skills that are actually good (both for magic and ranged)

    Lastly, allow giants and elves to marry (if it's not possible already ; I'm not perpetually attempting to marry a giant to find out if it works yet, so you tell me) and allow giants to carry elves on their shoulder.

    ( I really want to suggest allowing mounted archery from the back of a giant, which would be hilarious, but I think that may be op)

    Anyway, I think most of these changes would be balanced. With these changes made, I'd actually opt for keeping elf melee AS IT IS, because we're not meant to be good at it, nor is it supposed to be really easy to learn for us. This should also appease to everyone who wants elves to be good at magic, they will also have a niche (physical spells).
    The rest of the proble mregarding archery is a problem with the game itself, not elves. It's way too reforge and combo card dependant to be easily efficient, as opposed to FH. That's another update entirely.

    Just quoting what I've already said in this thread.

    The thing with combining archery and magic is this. It's a cool idea, but it needs to have functionality added to be actually combinable. I'm not going to go out of my way to cast magic while I take 3 hours to aim already. That's absolutely worthless. It sounds good in theory, but that's just a lazy way of adding something unique to elves while not making it any useful at all. They are two completely seperate things that don't benefit from being used in conjunction. I always hated that about the shyllien knuckles already, which is why I've never used those knuckes much. You snapcast to get a weaker spell than you would on a staff and then you go back to using fighter anyway. It'll be even worse with archery, whose skills are not instant. Far from instant.

    The heavy armor idea sounds..odd too. Heavy armor hampers mobility a lot, so light armor is the logical choice, especially because it has no dex penalty in the first place. Although it's true elves could use some more variety in terms of heavy armor. So even if the penalty is not swapped (poor giants have little dex to begin with), some more variety would be neat, at least. I can really only use the RKA.

    Rapiers sound nice as a seperate skillset though. I've always wanted it since they showed that elves are capable of it i nthe saga, although the saga itself has been basically completely disregarded since g19. So perhaps it's not even to be considered canon at this point.
  • logomyegologomyego
    Mabinogi Rep: 595
    Posts: 23
    Member
    Love the idea of a Magic Bow. Kinda like in Dragon's Dogma. I'm just imagining shooting lightning rod from a bow now. Or an Ice Spear arrow.

    Also love the idea of a Rapier talent that is elf only. Would give melee a purpose for elves instead of just padding the already-sub-par strength of elves.

    Magic Missile NEEDS a rework. Bad. The long cooldown coupled with the loading time, charge time, and the mediocre damage... It's just sad and not worth the time to use. By the time you get one Magic Missile launched, some human with FH has already cleared the room, some magic user has flattened everything, or a giant has murdered all of the enemies. Don't even get me started on the damage with wands.
  • pawcalypsepawcalypse
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,305
    Posts: 486
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    This crossover:
    GVy_Ny_Da.gif

    I wish for more flying targets.

    ...I wish there was a way or a passive skill that allows the rate of misses to decrease so as long as that skill is active for certain period of time; activate at the beginning of a mission or battle, for a certain amount of time the hit-rate remains at 70% to 99% as long as the user does not switch weapons or use another skill.
    The skill's penalties behave like those affecting Chain Mastery - as long as the player keeps using weapons and skills for Combat Mastery the penalty is not triggered.
    Once the user has aimed at the target they will miss yet not as frequent and will not have to draw their bow to 70% as often. Whatever...
  • SugarAngelSugarAngel
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,220
    Posts: 98
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    TNinja wrote: »
    SugarAngel wrote: »
    Oria wrote: »
    Well, I use to play an elf and mastered Mirage Missile. It was a rather fun skill to use when it came out at the time ^.^
    I like how the skill's damage was hybrid of INT and DEX, but I wouldn't mind it if it was tweaked a little for a bit more damage since using it on tougher mobs only does 1's. But at least their movement speed is cut in half ^.^;;

    Not 100% elf related but maybe have DEX also effect the starting aim % for using bows and crossbows. Higher Dex, higher starting aim %, maybe capping at 80% on stationary mobs, 70% at walking mobs, and 60% at running mobs.
    I feel like if you've done most or even all life skills for all the DEX you can get, then maybe you shouldn't miss as much as someone starting out.

    Oh, new bows that are elf only would be nice,that rivals the Bhafel Hunter; I guess it would have to crafted with magic craft then. Maybe have a bow that is fast that can also be used as a staff, since Elves are suppose to be great in archery and magic.

    And speaking of magic, since humans can dual wield swords and giants can dual wield blunts weapons, maybe let elves dual wield wands?
    Not staffs, just wands. Let them have their own dual wield skill that lets them dual cast spells, but only of the same element as the wand, and int spells only when wielding two wands of the same element. Have the charge go up to 10 while dual wielding wands. Chain casting upgrades still work as well. Balance to this is that you're casting twice as fast so you're using more MP doing this.

    Example: Cast two firebolts at once cost the MP of casting two firebolts. Like using a +1 chain cast firewand.
    But using two +4 chain cast firewands to cast ten firebolts at once would be like using one +4 chain cast firewand twice at once.

    To compensate for the increase of MP usage, maybe uncap the Meditation skill to rank 1, but give elves an extra mana reduction when in use?

    Sorry for the long post. I tried to balance it the best I could, but I know more than likely there will be ways to abuse my suggestions >.<;;
    Please be nice..

    Unfortunately, I'm going to have to say no to those wand changes - You'll be effectively doubling magic damage for elves, while making EVERY race inferior and weaker than them, making them also, the best DPS in the game. I don't want to see 100k firebolt spamming, even if it does cost an arm and a leg to cast. So unless you have another balancing method, this is rather.. Too broken for the game.

    Being superior in magic, somethign they should excel on is unheard of.
    But being inferior in melee, while giants and humans are superior in melee is perfectly fine.

    That's neat.

    If you think that humans and giants doing 20k firebolts, but elves doing 40k is balanced, I don't know where you're getting the numbers from, nor that logic. Step down.
    If anything, just increase the formula so instead of every 5 intelligence its 3.5 for elves. Literaly, you just made them 1.5x as strong without having to give them dual wield 10x CC.
    You happy now? :^)
    Also I didn't say elves were bad mages, nor that they deserve to be bad mages, in any light. Remember the discussion you abandoned because I lectured you and another person about min-maxing?

    Felice wrote: »
    even though I do not main an elf, I still feel that they are left in the dust by human and giants in pretty much every area, besides running speed.

    I'll bring up my two main suggestions for helping balance out elves.

    1: Two new bows made out of Shylien, a lower tier bow that doubles as a "Trinity" Grade Staff, damage wise, about par with a LLB with a Magic Attack Stat as a crafted bonus. A Higher tier bow that doubles as a "Hermit" Grade Staff, with around HLB or something similar for damage, with Lv 1 Pierce by default. Making both of them Elf Only would work out well as a buff for elves.
    I like this idea, please come up with more, seriously. The fact that you're combining the strengths is excellent.
    (not sarcasm, honest)

    2: Add Rapiers to the Lance Weapons Pool, allowing them to be used with Lance Skills. Rapiers, throughout history, have been thrusting weapons. They don't need to be so broken that they get Bash and Rage as well, but giving them a natural pierce level and allowing them to use reduced range and damage Lance skills, will give Elves more melee options.
    Once again, no. Closing the gap on strength would be not good, unfortunately. They weren't meant to carry a lance, as they were made to be the best mages.

    2b: Make a Shylien Mana Rapier. Literally a Rapier with the same magic casting properties as a Shylien Mana Knuckle. If Merlin can do this to a set of knuckles, why can't elves do the same to a hilt guard on a rapier?
    There we go! Another good suggestion. Maybe make one for a Crossbow too?

    3: Expand on Elf-Friendly Heavy Armor. There are maybe 2-3 sets of actual Heavy Armor that elves can wear. I say this gets expanded on for non-archer elves. Also swapping the dex penalty in heavy armor with elves and giants. It makes no sense that Giants start with -30% and end at -10% while elves are shafted with a flat -50%
    Archery isn't meant to be used with heavy armor - It throws off the aim, thus the dexterity. If anything, they should just get rid of the dexterity pentalty and make an Aim Speed penalty.. Giants getting none, elves and humans getting 25%(15%@r1), that way it balances it out and no one really needs to worry.

    As far as the hide ability, darker skin or changes to magic missile or mirage missile, I don't know enough about those skills to make any kind of claim

    Replies in bold, I apologize for being so strongly against Lances.
  • FeliceFelice
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,490
    Posts: 98
    Member
    SugarAngel wrote: »
    Wall of text.

    Lances are not for everyone, so no need to apologize for that. The only reason I'm so adamant about that suggestion is because when I talk to Non-Archer Elves, they complain about the lack of strength and pierce that lances offer. I also specified Non-Archer Elves in my bit about Heavy Armor changes. But yeah, I feel that the level and number of hybrid talents and hybrid weapons are on the rise. All we really have so far, are Mana Knuckles, which, while great, are not the best at either Fighter or Magic, but instead, work as a good stop-gap to fill in the space between close combat and magic. The only hybrid weapon are Sun Colts, dual guns that double as L-Rods. compared to Mana Knuckles, they are lack-luster in damage, but they have a much greater sense of usability in that they remove the need to have a non-combat weapon equipped when exploring.

    There are several combination/hybrid weapons I can think of that would work well in Mabi's current engine, Staff-Bows. Wand-Rapiers, Alchemy-Lances just to name three off the top of my head, many of which can benefit elves or even all races greatly, but the main problem at the end of the day, its up to Nexon KOREA and DevCAT to decide what gets added to Mabi, all we can do is hope and pray to our assorted gods that they even acknowledge our ideas or that we can even think of good ones, instead of listening solely to their KR playerbase.
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,665
    Posts: 57
    Member
    Magic is already arguably the second best skill set in this game and nobody needs a boost in it, but if I were to give elves a boost it would probably be allowing them to wield a shield with a staff and then include some ineffectual shields with various magic buffs. Maybe make some of them set based and then make staffs with the other half of the effect.

    Other than that I'd just add a rapier mastery skill that switched all damage with rapiers to dex based, add a small amount of piercing to preexisting rapiers and introduce more rapiers and enchants with higher piercing. Probably try to get the max at about 6 since you don't need space games with them and possibly add in some move with value approximate to lance charge for rapiers. Been thinking they should have done that for years.

    I like the idea of magic missile being tied to final shot and improved too. And most importantly YES GIVE US DARK ELVES.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 14,900
    Posts: 2,304
    Member
    Felice wrote: »
    even though I do not main an elf, I still feel that they are left in the dust by human and giants in pretty much every area, besides running speed.

    I'll bring up my two main suggestions for helping balance out elves.

    1: Two new bows made out of Shylien, a lower tier bow that doubles as a "Trinity" Grade Staff, damage wise, about par with a LLB with a Magic Attack Stat as a crafted bonus. A Higher tier bow that doubles as a "Hermit" Grade Staff, with around HLB or something similar for damage, with Lv 1 Pierce by default. Making both of them Elf Only would work out well as a buff for elves.

    2: Add Rapiers to the Lance Weapons Pool, allowing them to be used with Lance Skills. Rapiers, throughout history, have been thrusting weapons. They don't need to be so broken that they get Bash and Rage as well, but giving them a natural pierce level and allowing them to use reduced range and damage Lance skills, will give Elves more melee options.

    2b: Make a Shylien Mana Rapier. Literally a Rapier with the same magic casting properties as a Shylien Mana Knuckle. If Merlin can do this to a set of knuckles, why can't elves do the same to a hilt guard on a rapier?

    3: Expand on Elf-Friendly Heavy Armor. There are maybe 2-3 sets of actual Heavy Armor that elves can wear. I say this gets expanded on for non-archer elves. Also swapping the dex penalty in heavy armor with elves and giants. It makes no sense that Giants start with -30% and end at -10% while elves are shafted with a flat -50%

    As far as the hide ability, darker skin or changes to magic missile or mirage missile, I don't know enough about those skills to make any kind of claim

    I love all of your ideas. Magic Missile is a rather awkward skill for me whenever I fight so I rarely use it. Perhaps make it a non-trans skill where you use Elemental Arrows (Fire Arrows, Ice Arrows, Lightning Arrows) that you craft via Magic Craft (it would make sense). If they keep it a transformation skill, maybe make it akin to using Fireball/Ice Spear/Thunder Crystals with Alchemy. Or for the third option...

    In Falcon mode: Magic Arrows are Advance Magic like Fireball. In Normal Elf mode, Magic Arrows add Bolt damage of the Element of the arrow in addition to Ranged Attack Damage.

    In addition, I think either they need to give Elves a sort of small lance they can use, or remove the Talent from the possible listing, so no one accidentally clicks it. Maybe add a Fencer Talent for Rapiers. =3
    Sherri
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,500
    Posts: 2,609
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    #RapiersForElves
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
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    I seriously think that they should remove aiming for bows and turn it either into load time or just make it instant like dual guns.
    at the same time this sounds absolutely terrible because it means you can just spam mag shot endlessly for 25-80k per shot without missing.
    Also it defeats the purpose of final shot and various other skills.
    Just writing this for reasons idk anymore
    Sherrioffwithyourheads