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Post your favourite plot hole
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Wow look at that I found some plot-holes afterall haha!
- The Land of Eternity, Tir Na Nog -
written by Lesley
Preface
This world, full of freedom and peace, has been created and sustained by the law and order of our loving god, Aton Cimeni. Humans, with their limited knowledge and experience cannot possibly comprehend the full beauty of it.
The order of Erinn was completed with the creation of a paradise that surpassed every law and order, known as Tir Na Nog.
Tir Na Nog is a fantasy world mentioned in the sacred book of the Lymilarks Church. It is said to be a legendary utopia, and though it has been passed down to people for generations, no one is said to have been there.
This book is written to uncover the truth about Tir Na Nog and help people understand it. I hope that this book will be a useful tool that gives insight to those who are seeking this paradise.
Tir Na Nog's Origin and Meaning.
The word Tir Na Nog literally means [Land of Youth], or [Eternal World]. Just like its name, it is said to be a place where you retain your youth forever and never grow old, get sick or even die. It is also said that the dead and buried come back to life in their youth and those who are alive never grow old or get sick. It's a place where the power of death and decay does not penetrate, a place where tears do not exist.
Tir Na Nog is also known as the world where the gods live. There's a myth that when the great Warriors of the Tuatha De Denaan died, they became gods in Tir Na Nog and looked down on his world and sometimes even descended back to Erinn.
It is unclear when these myths started circulating because stories about Tir Na Nog were not recorded down but passed down through word of mouth. There is a subtle mention in the records of one of the earliest clans, the Bans. However, because the description is very vague, it has been a topic of debate whether it should count as the first recorded writing regarding Tir Na Nog.
Generally, these are the known descriptions of Tir Na Nog: Gems grow from the trees, there are beautiful flowers in the fields, and a wonderful aroma fills the land. There is a stream that flows into a river, so clear that you can see the bottom, and all the wild animals live in harmony and peace with one another. The land is so fertile that there is plentiful harvest even without any labor, and all those who live there praise the gods and worship them.
One interesting thing is that although these stories about Tir Na Nog have been passed down orally, the descriptions are virtually identical in every region and country.
How Tir Na Nog was Passed Down.
What are we to make of this?
The first thing that comes to mind is that this land called Tir Na Nog might be closer than we think. It just that those who have been there and back, for some reason, want to keep it a secret and avoid talking about it. So the same story continues to stimulate the imagination of the people, but since those who have actually been there keep their lips tight, the story remains unchanged.
However, considering all the reports of many adventurers, this idea seems highly improbably.
Another theory is that Tir Na Nog is simply an imaginary place. Since it doesn't exist, the story hasn't developed from the original source.
But the belief in Tir Na Nog is extremely firm, while interest and opinions regarding stories of other paradises are minimal.
The only way to explain this is that all the people in Erinn must hold to the same idea of paradise. But even this is something that cannot be seriously discussed yet.
If this paradise truly exists, how have people found out about it, believe in it, and passed it on? Analyzing this should uncover the truth about this mysterious place.
Start From the Beginning.
Earlier I mentioned that the people of Erinn all hold to the same idea of paradise. Then, testing the plausibility of this idea of paradise should confirm if Tir Na Nog can be a real place.
How did this idea of paradise emerge in the hearts of the people? Could this universal idea of paradise really exist?
The idea of a paradise never thinks of others. It portrays a life that revolves around one's self, or someone close. Also, since one person's idea of paradise could interpret as someone else's hell, the idea of a universal paradise is hard to conceive. A world of eternal youth and absence of death is not the essence of paradise; rather, it should be a place where human desires and values are regulated.
So I ask my readers this. If paradise has nothing to do with eternal life or the absence of all sickness, but a place where your values and desires are controlled, would you still want to live there in eternity?
When stories about Tir Na Nog began to spread, it was a time of chaos and destruction for mankind. The idea of hope and longing for a paradise world was easily and desperately embraced by people. Thus, Tir Na Nog is simply a hope that people have, but its existence is questionable.
One thing that is clear is that those who claim to have been there have no evidence, and cannot give an answer to where it actually is. Tir Na Nog is a paradise that exists in people's hearts, not a real place that you can find.
Conclusion
Though it may not be a satisfying explanation, there is no current evidence that proves Tir Na Nog's existence. However, at the same time, one cannot firmly disprove its existence as well.
Nevertheless, Tir Na Nog exists...as a symbol of paradise. I want to advise adventurers to stop wasting time on this idea of paradise and move onto something else.
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/The_Land_of_Eternity,_Tir_Na_Nog
Answering your questions:
1) When you play telephone, the message gets screwed up on the way down the line. Same can be said about stories passed down through generations. Or perhaps the memories of people were manipulated by the gods.
2) Cichol
3) Paradise doesn't really exist. Stop dreaming.
4) Fomors were the one who introduced Alchemy, however Humans stole the knowledge for their own greed. According to Dorren, Humanity should never have learned Alchemy due to its hidden, lethal potential.
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Fomorian
Humans are adaptable creatures... usually with the form of thievery.
1: I believe it is during the Dark Knight quest that Tarlach contemplates the Milletians in studying Dark Knight Armor. In the book it makes comments on how the Milletians seem to remember things that the Duah(can't write their name) people forget. Even milletians living over several generations remember the same NPCs while they easily forget certain events.
He then likens their fast aging to their memory, perhaps the Milletians don't age fast but at normal rate of time, and it is the NPCs who age very slowly, which might also be related to their memory.
So this was not about a manipulation of stories, but the forgetfulness of each individual NPC being different from the Milletian players playing through the storyline.
2: Just making a King/God with wings doesn't answer anything. This is common escalation issue in all fiction. Ultimately all created things have scalable limits, making more powerful things just raises that scale, it doesn't account for supposed barriers. Cichol does behave within a created world and use powers/forces does he not?
3: Well I say it does. Sheesh that was easy to refute. Good argument. So deep.
4. I understand that. And to be fair there, it's not like the people know they were in Tir Na Nog, and clearly, that has no bearing on their hearts. The story reveals that the evil in humans persists wherever they are, and that even being in a "paradise", they carry evil and discontent with them. Simply put, Human hearts are continually evil, confirmed.
I Appreciate you at least trying to provide answers.
Well, NPCs were programmed to reset memories after every week unless you spam PTJs or something like that for them to remember you.
Going back to memories, Elves once had the memory tower to make the elven population forgetful (except for Milletian elves). Makes me wonder, if the memory tower was really causing memory loss, or are elves under the same effect as humans... Giants weren't under such effect, how good are their memories?
Ha! Found more loopholes!
It is well-known Cichol wants revenge over the humans over some past incident or conflict (likely the war that made Sen Mag look like a WW1 battlefield) or some other further previous event, but I think the former event is the correct event.
Since, Morrighan was sealed, Cichol had the power to have the Fomorians invade Tir Na Nog and use their gold to summon Glas.
But of course, we could go into Morrighan's plot of pulling the strings behind to manipulate people over the fear of them becoming too powerful yada yada... but we do know that Cichol is the mastermind behind the last of the human (elves + giants later) wars with the Fomorians.
Well, we do know Tir is the description of paradise, and there are hints that its inhabitants do know that. But, they like to dream of an even more utopian place. But in Tir itself, it is a little true, that there's no one with real illnesses or disabilities etc.
And we know that Tuatha do not die unless killed. I guess, they just want a little bit more. (Full immortality).
I wouldn't say human hearts are evil, just greedy. We see it in real life and basically in every single storyline. And Morrighan summed it all up at the end.
When they asked for my help making them dishes THEY want me to make....My cooking was rank1 RANK ONE
They don't like it....BOTH OF THEM!
For Shame those good for nothings...welp least they learn how to fight from the dude who protected them.
Also to add that man hardly showers *shivers* xD
You mean the fighter storyline?
That was a pretty meh plot. Especially with the fact, that you basically never see most of them ever again.
Those are the biggest plot holes. What happens to NPCs (who aren't dead) you know exist, but are never seen again in the game?
Does that mean she's a Milletian?
So what did Millia do with them then?
Memory wipe.
I agree, though to be honest, I'd rather not learn his name because I've fallen in love with a name I came up for him.
I just call him Lewis, mostly because of this.
But also, Lewis is a Celtic name (at least multiple websites state this) and Mabinogi does go by Celtic lore.
Also he looks like a Lewis to me.
What would you call the Treasure Hunter if they had gone with the original design?
Hm I'm not quite sure to be honest. I'll probably think of something though lol
Btw, does this mean discrimination towards black hair elves is still ongoing?
Just sayin.
Hmm yeah possibly.
I'm actually curious about what the story would be for female/elf/black hair Treasure Hunter..
Also SHE CONFIRMS ELVES CAN HAVE DARK SKIN. O _O
Had they agreed to remain with TH as an elf, I think things in iria would make a lot more sense. Since this TH would have the same hair and eye color as Atrata, who was also considered bad luck - and was picked as the red dragons representative during the conductor ceremony in G8. If you combine it with TH's past noted in the journal it all would make sense.
Black haired elves would be considered part of the Cessair/Evil Dragon tribe in Iria, so thusly they would be discriminated against and considered bad luck when elves lost their memories - they don't know why, but they consider black haired elves bad luck. Tie it in with how the Cessair aligned themselves with the violent dragon broods - red, black, white - who wanted to rule Iria then it makes sense. Cessair, or Dian Cecht, was the golden dragons conductor and apparently a rogue goddess whose people were the Cessair. She brought about the moonlight of death but was opposed by Irinid who we know as Neamhain who allied herself with the humans of iria, elves of connous and giants of Physis.
TL:DR - TH as an an elf would make saga 2's lore make more sense
We never really found out.
Black haired elves were persecuted, but that was due to the manipulation of Castnea and the Memory Tower to prevent Elves from continuing their war against Giants.
Once shyllien was discovered, the power and wealth Filia was able to obtain from it, allowed the Elves to (supposedly) economically rebound (just like the Giants with the discovery of Hillwen) allowed them to knock down the Memory Tower and rebuild Filia, although the land still mostly desert from the effects of hundreds of years of the curse of Couracle.
It was the milletian that started to crack the memory tower though, making Elves involved in the outside world, starting in G9 with the expeditionary forces to Tailteann.
Elves supposedly now are able to venture out into the world with no problem, so it makes it funny that lost elves still exist in the desert.
But the design of the Elven story is already pretty well-made, there's no need to make black haired elves antagonistic from the existing story lines.
As for cessair one can put together the clues told in both G4-8 as well as both sagas to get a fair understanding of who and what they are. Part of a more interesting story is not what is explicitly written in black and white but what is also implied. If you only took what they directly told you as fact then everyone in erinn has a HUD and can see everyone's names over their heads among other stupid shenanigans that kill any sort of authenticity to *anything* written down, not to mention that every npc in erinn is at least as strong as or nearly as strong as your own demigod character, which makes one wonder why they need you in the first place.