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Gambling Simulator 2017?

SheenaSheena
Mabinogi Rep: 5,515
Posts: 381
Member
edited October 26, 2017 in General Chat
Am i the only one tired if this gambling simulator that mabinogi is becoming lately?

Do you remember the last time we could just spend like 7-10$ in a shopping bag and get what we wanted right away?
Because holy **** people is spending like 10 to 75$+ for a bunch of potions, tailoring materials and dyes nowadays...

We could have stopped this gatcha thing ever since day one, but people never got united and just encouraged this gambling practice over and over untill this day.

EDIT: There is no doubt that gacha is a solid money maker to keep the game alive, but the problem is that the RNG is terrible, If the gacha says for example: "Wing Gachapon" then getting a pair of wings should be a 100% chance + 1 extra item from the list maybe, but people can buy 10+ of those gachas and dont get any wings.

One solution for this it would be to get rid of most of the junk items like, potions, dyes, etc... and only leave the important items that actually match the gachapon's name: Wing gachapons only have wings, Fashion gachapons only have clothings in it and so on.
  1. Should the shopping bags come back?62 votes
    1. Yes, No more gambling.
       79% (49 votes)
    2. No, I feel like a Kingpin when i gamble.
       21% (13 votes)

Comments

  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,890
    Posts: 1,752
    Member
    edited October 24, 2017
    I remember the last time

    Beach Party and Summer Vacation outfit bags

    I do miss the yearly halloween and christmas outfit sets we could directly buy though. Mabi has gone very downhill when it comes to that
    SheenaSherripawcalypseTheNyanCateikoden
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    I prefer Shopping Bags.

    DIRECTLY BUYABLE Shopping Bags.

    Not in a gacha.
    Not in a "shuffle".

    Directly Buyable.
    SheenabadnewsbarrettTheNyanCatLeiliciaSherriYokkaichiSphyra21xxmimipawcalypseTairikuand 3 others.
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    Well, if we had shopping bags back, it really comes down to this:

    Is what you want in a bag? No? Zero purchase.
    Yes? You buy one. At all.

    Compared to gacha, it looks terrible in the eyes of a business.
    Which is what an MMO is.

    As I said in a past topic:
    And no, having only shopping bags around will not magically solve everything.
    The desire for a shopping bag is subjective, and entirely dependent on what is inside.

    People will not just magically buy something in a large amount because RNG is removed.

    Now, if we want to talk about a change from gacha that could actually work...

    VIP looks really outdated right about now.
    HINT HINT
    VeylaineWolfandWolfArchdukeValeCortezLeiliciaTheOthicTrythisArjuneSherriJazmynpawcalypseand 1 other.
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
    Posts: 117
    Member
    Here is the thing. Lockboxes, gachapons, or gamble boxes as you call them FUND THIS GAME. Sad but true. Without funding, the game doesn't get updated, doesn't keep the servers on, and the game dies.

    Now let's see if anyone actually makes it to this part before tearing me a new one. For the record I voted for "Yes, No more gambling" (sic) but here is the thing. How do you replace the actual mountain of money that Nexon makes off their gachas? I don't have any stats on how much they make but in STO, the figure of $2,000,000 a day was estimated in revenue off their version of gamble boxes when the new boxes dropped. If we say Nexon makes half that, how do we replace $1,000,000 in revenue a day off of gachas? Granted the revenue rate is probably less because of the sheer rate of new gachas, which is every 2 weeks. In STO, it was every 3 months.

    Still, the point stands that Nexon most likely makes more money off of gamble boxes and shopping bags probably won't make as much because of their very natures. I like the shopping bags. I pay x and know I am getting y for sure. However, because I am assured I am getting y, I will only buy 2 bags, maybe 4 of them. I have no idea how much shopping bags are but let's think big. $20 a bag. Let's say I bought 4 because they were M and F sets and I have a sister who also plays. That's $80 from me on a shopping bag that came out and I have all the pieces. Let's say it's a 4 piece set giving each piece a value of $5. Pretty fair, I think, for a bit of digital cosmetic clothing.

    Now in a gamble box I need to buy at least 8 gamble boxes, at $1.50 each. That would cost me a mere $12. If I am stupid lucky I get all 8 pieces that I need and save $68. However, because of the gamble nature of the gachas, my chances of getting the item I want is stupidly low. I could maybe understand it if it was a physical good and that good was expensive to make, but this is digital. I know there are artist and programming costs but artificial rarity at the level that Nexon takes it is a bit much.

    Again, in STO, their lockboxes have a 0.5% chance at the single large ticket item in them which is usually a space ship. Nexon has clothing. And an actual mountain of crap items. There are 45 big ticket items in the latest gacha. If we assume an equal chance for each of them that is 2.2% chance of each item. Now add in the 84 other items that are listed. That's 129 items with 0.77% chance of getting any given item assuming everything is weighted evenly.

    Two gachas ago, the one with the Imperial Prince and Princess clothing, I bought 191 gachas for me and my sister to open. 191. At the end of all that I still had to find someone who was selling the Long Imperial Prince outfit because in 191 tries, we didn't get it. Out of that 191 pile I got about 10 big ticket items. If I could have bought a shopping bag I would have since they tell me what they are giving me but lacking that option I gambled. Nexon made way more money from me because of their gamble box than hypothetical $20 shopping bag.

    Lastly, I would like to call @Gaea and @Sherri to double check my numbers because I have been told that they can count and want to be doubly sure about my figures. We need our professional counters around here to help out after all.

    Long story short, the gamble boxes are terrible but they make way too much money for companies to ever stop doing.
    Jianto
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    You have been playing gacha your whole life if you think about it. Remember buying Pokemon and Yugioh and Magic the gathering cards? That was Gacha also, it was all RNG. Have a sibling or maybe yourself that likes buying blind bags? Thats gacha, it's RNG. Were kinder eggs legal were you live? The toy inside is gacha, those little toy vending machines you see in super markets, thats Gacha? Literally, everything that involves you buying something that is RNG is Gacha.

    Also lets get some facts straight. Gacha is not a scam. You are not promised you will get the best items if you buy the gacha, You still get SOMETHING. A scam would be you buy something and get NOTHING Like the thing is completely empty. Before you throw the word scam around please learn what it means. Also There is NO danger to doing gacha, you make the choice, the company doesn't force you or threaten you to buy it.

    Yes, I do miss outfit bags, those were nice, they are still around sometimes. But Gacha is the same thing you have being doing your whole life and is not a scam and poses no danger.
    Sherripawcalypse
  • ValenmirValenmir
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,385
    Posts: 416
    Member
    The gachupons dont really bother me.. Its not like there new- yes they are using them more. But its not like its been a year since theyve sold a bag. :x i like the gachupon because you dont really know what you will get and some things you get from it, you didnt realiize you would like it until you got it- So is how it works for me.

    My only issue with the gachupons is.. The drop rate.. Anything new seems much harder to get, but something old is easy, I wish it all was just equal.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    I don't like spending money just to end up with something I didn't want.

    So RNG stuff always drives me off, just because of the possibility of me not getting what I want.
    The usually big possibility.

    And they don't seem to be cooling it with the RNG stuff.
    Gacha with items.
    Pet Boxes with pets.
    Then there's those Shuffle things.

    They make a lot of money, mostly because of a handful of HUGE buyers, but they just aren't the kind of thing I go for.

    Shopping Bags
    Pet Sales
    Packages
    Bundles

    Or those weird combinations that sometimes happen, like the Night Sweeper you could get bundled with the Night Witch/Mage Shopping Bags.

    Those are the kinds of things I like to see in the shop.

    In fact, we had one back in July that was interesting.

    The Beachwear and Baltane chairs things.
    Could buy any of the individual boxes, or get a Box that had one of everything, plus a Shuan chair as a bonus.

    It's not like the directly buyable sales never happen...
    I just wish we had them more often.
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
    Posts: 117
    Member
    I think Gacha fatigue is also a big factor. Nexon has a new one out every 2 weeks.
    [Deleted User]SherriTairikupawcalypse6f0909
  • LeiliciaLeilicia
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,220
    Posts: 313
    Member
    I wish outfits were still in a shopping bag, but I'd still get gacha too if they had wings etc in them. Gacha can still earn Nexon $$$$ if they had other items people would be wanting. Like tails, maybe, wings. More fashionogi items that aren't full sets like Divine Demigod (yes Im still upset that I can't even afford those cause its selling for like 35m+ in tarlach). Many, and I do mean many, would buy a lot of the bags too mainly for sell value. They may not sell right away, but they'll hold onto the bags until they're gone from shop. That's when shopping bags get higher value. And, not everyone can afford spending nx so it's a win-win I think.
  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,100
    Posts: 887
    Member
    We'll never get decent shopping bags again. We'll get shopping bags with okay things but we'll never get super cool stuff like the demi god outfits in shopping bags anymore. Gacha has overrun Mabinogi and that won't stop for a very long time. :/ I would join the argument of "If you don't like it don't buy it", but that doesn't really work for people who don't have enough willpower to resist the urge for something nice from gacha and do so anyway, and end up spending over 200 dollars when they didn't even want to. It's pretty sad.

    Something should be done, but I doubt it will be because this is just how gacha works in KR most likely, and they aren't about to change it just to make NA feel better. All we can hope is that maybe KR's server and all the other servers get fed up with this in unison to the point where barely anyone buys gacha, and then true change will happen. But who knows.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,670
    Posts: 886
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    Xiokun wrote: »
    We'll never get decent shopping bags again. We'll get shopping bags with okay things but we'll never get super cool stuff like the demi god outfits in shopping bags anymore. Gacha has overrun Mabinogi and that won't stop for a very long time. :/ I would join the argument of "If you don't like it don't buy it", but that doesn't really work for people who don't have enough willpower to resist the urge for something nice from gacha and do so anyway, and end up spending over 200 dollars when they didn't even want to. It's pretty sad.

    Something should be done, but I doubt it will be because this is just how gacha works in KR most likely, and they aren't about to change it just to make NA feel better. All we can hope is that maybe KR's server and all the other servers get fed up with this in unison to the point where barely anyone buys gacha, and then true change will happen. But who knows.

    There have never ever been items of that high tier before in shopping bags.

    and nothing will be done because nothing harmful is being done. It's the players own fault if they spend 200$ on RNG and get nothing. The same applies for real life also. Looking back at pokemon cards, not everyone spend like 20$ and got that first edition Charizard holo card. There is no harm being doing because the company is not hurting anyone. No one forces anyone to buy gacha, so you can't blame the company at all. They want money, they will get money, there will never be enough people to tire out or become fed up, to warrant a change to gacha because in the end all it is, is pointless whining about choosing to spend their own money and not getting the new shiny thing. It's the harsh truth but it is in the truth.
    ShouKVeylaineTheOthicpawcalypse
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,730
    Posts: 564
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    There have been nice shopping bags in the past, and we got a nice one this summer. The only thing that makes me upset is when an item that was specifically shopping bag or shuffle in Korea gets released as a jackpot gacha item. Other than that, as long as they keep the drop rates decent to the point that I can buy the items off others, I will go about gacha with my usual attitude toward gambling: Spending limits. You hit the limit, you're done. Stop putting money in, and start looking to buy off other players with gold.

    Nobody makes you spend hundreds on gacha. As long as the item I'm after drops for *SOMEBODY*, I can get it. The only thing that makes me angry is when Nexon messes with the odds to the point that the items people are after cannot be obtained reasonably, which in general sours people toward gachas. Nexon seems to have gotten the picture and relaxed on those odds since summer.

    If the odds are decent, I'm good. And regardless of anyone's personal wins or losses, I'm seeing wings everywhere with the most recent gacha, which implies odds are good and people are buying. If the average Mabi player is happy, nothing is going to change. The best we can hope for is that Nexon keeps the gacha odds good and doesn't try to pull anything too stupid.

    I also think it's funny how people get so mad at monster urns and wonder why Mabi keeps bringing them back. Well, when this one came out, me and some other randoms were opening them and fighting the monsters and having a darn good time. Before the other randoms came along, I had a good time soloing red dragons. As silly as it may seem, they are actually fun if you stop to fight the monsters. And with full gambler's fallacy disclosure, I felt luckier while opening them.
  • nevyn25nevyn25
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,135
    Posts: 667
    Member
    Personally I prefer shopping bags over gacha, though I understand gachas are a necessary evil to keep a base monetary income for the company. I myself usually buy 1-2 stacks and stop there, just because I like a gamble. what I would like to see is more alternation between themed gachas and shopping bags. I think that would grant more money than just having gacha, because people who don't do gach would also spend money more quickly.

    and let's not forget that ultimately there's also the eweca orb, style tab and reforges. I think those already cover most of the expenses nexon makes for mabi, especially reforges. anywayz. these are my 2 dead bees concerning the whole gacha discussion, so don't bash please
    pawcalypse
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,165
    Posts: 9,159
    Member
    Here is the thing. Lockboxes, gachapons, or gamble boxes as you call them FUND THIS GAME. Sad but true. Without funding, the game doesn't get updated, doesn't keep the servers on, and the game dies.

    Now let's see if anyone actually makes it to this part before tearing me a new one. For the record I voted for "Yes, No more gambling" (sic) but here is the thing. How do you replace the actual mountain of money that Nexon makes off their gachas? I don't have any stats on how much they make but in STO, the figure of $2,000,000 a day was estimated in revenue off their version of gamble boxes when the new boxes dropped. If we say Nexon makes half that, how do we replace $1,000,000 in revenue a day off of gachas? Granted the revenue rate is probably less because of the sheer rate of new gachas, which is every 2 weeks. In STO, it was every 3 months.

    Still, the point stands that Nexon most likely makes more money off of gamble boxes and shopping bags probably won't make as much because of their very natures. I like the shopping bags. I pay x and know I am getting y for sure. However, because I am assured I am getting y, I will only buy 2 bags, maybe 4 of them. I have no idea how much shopping bags are but let's think big. $20 a bag. Let's say I bought 4 because they were M and F sets and I have a sister who also plays. That's $80 from me on a shopping bag that came out and I have all the pieces. Let's say it's a 4 piece set giving each piece a value of $5. Pretty fair, I think, for a bit of digital cosmetic clothing.

    Now in a gamble box I need to buy at least 8 gamble boxes, at $1.50 each. That would cost me a mere $12. If I am stupid lucky I get all 8 pieces that I need and save $68. However, because of the gamble nature of the gachas, my chances of getting the item I want is stupidly low. I could maybe understand it if it was a physical good and that good was expensive to make, but this is digital. I know there are artist and programming costs but artificial rarity at the level that Nexon takes it is a bit much.

    Again, in STO, their lockboxes have a 0.5% chance at the single large ticket item in them which is usually a space ship. Nexon has clothing. And an actual mountain of crap items. There are 45 big ticket items in the latest gacha. If we assume an equal chance for each of them that is 2.2% chance of each item. Now add in the 84 other items that are listed. That's 129 items with 0.77% chance of getting any given item assuming everything is weighted evenly.

    Two gachas ago, the one with the Imperial Prince and Princess clothing, I bought 191 gachas for me and my sister to open. 191. At the end of all that I still had to find someone who was selling the Long Imperial Prince outfit because in 191 tries, we didn't get it. Out of that 191 pile I got about 10 big ticket items. If I could have bought a shopping bag I would have since they tell me what they are giving me but lacking that option I gambled. Nexon made way more money from me because of their gamble box than hypothetical $20 shopping bag.

    Lastly, I would like to call @Gaea and @Sherri to double check my numbers because I have been told that they can count and want to be doubly sure about my figures. We need our professional counters around here to help out after all.

    Long story short, the gamble boxes are terrible but they make way too much money for companies to ever stop doing.

    Oh stop being so mad. Jesus.
    Sherri
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,440
    Posts: 2,509
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
    Member
    Leinei wrote: »
    You know, odd idea, but what if they did both? Made outfit bags where you get all the pieces of a set to sell on their own, meanwhile offering singular pieces of a set (gloves, boots, outfit, etc) as potential wins in the gacha as well? They'd have guaranteed purchases on the outfit bags, plus those of players who like testing their luck.
    Why would people buy the gacha when they can just buy the outfit bags?
  • ShaeliShaeli
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,430
    Posts: 359
    Member
    150-200 people with loose wallets and pursestrings are keeping this game alive. Think on that for a while.
    JiantoTairikupawcalypse
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »

    Oh stop being so mad. Jesus.

    That's what you get since you are a cool bean. :trollface:

  • JiantoJianto
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,105
    Posts: 25
    Member
    edited October 25, 2017
    Even if you dislike gachas and loot crates/boxes there's no denying that they help keep the servers alive for everyone to play, I rather they add these gamble boxes than to see Mabinogi shut down forever without server cost funding. I still have a lot of things I want to accomplish in Mabinogi ;)
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 443
    Member
    When bags were actually THE common thing. Friends and I would all buy them, for eachother because we played as a small team and did everything together, and would actually buy sets for people who wanted them in chat but had no real-life money. As well as extras in the hope of selling later.
    It's immodest for me to gamble by trying to obtain things the other way.