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"New and Powerful Enchants"

Comments

  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 182
    Member

    Buffalos wrote: »
    Ask some questions before using your insane repair rate weapons:
    Am I gold farming? If yes, use that one sword I can full repair for 50k and still one shot everything thanks to power creep.
    Am I material farming hard content? Let's use that 100k/point weapon so that I can effectively farm for a material I could easily sell for that plus a little profit, or maybe even use it to make an even pointy-er sword.
    Honestly the game needs a fully required gold sink like repairs. We've had some monstrous inflation over the years and I'd much rather slowly fix that instead of having to continuously add more trade window capacity so that I can put 500 million in checks for a single item down the road.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Aren't they divine wep exclusive as well?
    The previewed ones appear to be, yeah.

    If you are talking about dungeons the absurd drop rate doesn't make using 100k/point weapon worth it- not even Rabbie Phantasm
    There are enough gold sinks in game, and a lot of gold inflating factors are gone(Girg VHM,Saga 2 and conflict got nerfed). There is no need to push absurd repair fee with new content.
    GTCvActium wrote: »

    Well its not like your weapons will increase repair fees as you level up, you built the weapon, enchanted it, and reforged it in the manner of your choosing. You can be reasonably strong level and skill wise and still use cheap disposable weapons. The idea is that if you have the economic means of building and maintaining such a weapon, then go ahead. The increased performance is not a super high margin and is mostly reserved for those that wish to pursue something strong and for something to spend their money on.

    There is no issue since there are cheaper alternatives for all classes of weapons and the differences between them aren't game breakingly large (reforges are a different beast but good reforged low end cheap gear can beat out unreforged high end gear). If you think using a certain weapon is going to be a loss, then simply don't use it, use something you're comfortable maintaining. The only thing to actually complain about is envy, namely the fact that someone can afford to build, use and maintain something that is superior.

    So a lot of endgame gears/enchants are meaningless because they are inefficient and people are advised not to use them. lol
    Sherri
  • MaiaMaia
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,965
    Posts: 886
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    Divine weapon exclusives, let them have their 10x repair rate :D Just get free repair kits and perfect repair kits if you're afraid of repair costs. Or choose an alternative enchant perhaps
  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    Maia wrote: »
    Divine weapon exclusives, let them have their 10x repair rate :D Just get free repair kits and perfect repair kits if you're afraid of repair costs. Or choose an alternative enchant perhaps

    They are not always on sale you know :| everything gotta be always limited sale to make some quick cash
    And there's no point in using divine weapons if you are not going to use divine weapon exclusive enchants(except for the lance)
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited June 7, 2018
    Please use spoiler tags for excessive quoting.
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Ask some questions before using your insane repair rate weapons:
    Am I gold farming? If yes, use that one sword I can full repair for 50k and still one shot everything thanks to power creep.
    Am I material farming hard content? Let's use that 100k/point weapon so that I can effectively farm for a material I could easily sell for that plus a little profit, or maybe even use it to make an even pointy-er sword.
    Honestly the game needs a fully required gold sink like repairs. We've had some monstrous inflation over the years and I'd much rather slowly fix that instead of having to continuously add more trade window capacity so that I can put 500 million in checks for a single item down the road.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Aren't they divine wep exclusive as well?
    The previewed ones appear to be, yeah.

    Wouldn't it be 140k for one point at 98%? I cannot imagine many rewarding content that wouldn't make up for spending one point. ONE POINT.

    It seems that something like Shadow Wiz Elite Spam with Crystals would be "one of the few" given time and durability spent, and one certainly do not need weapons like this for such content.

    In any case, tailoring the economic gold sinks to the 10% who farmed VHM Girgashiy in its heyday hurts the rest of the playerbase. You could say most are not in content that would greatly benefit from such weapons, and that is true. Yet, it is inane to assume that just because a player is strong, that they have mountains of gold sitting around.

    In which case, points to the bigger issue for all of us. This weapon isn't efficient, and many people are adverse to loss in profit already.

    Well its not like your weapons will increase repair fees as you level up, you built the weapon, enchanted it, and reforged it in the manner of your choosing. You can be reasonably strong level and skill wise and still use cheap disposable weapons. The idea is that if you have the economic means of building and maintaining such a weapon, then go ahead. The increased performance is not a super high margin and is mostly reserved for those that wish to pursue something strong and for something to spend their money on.

    There is no issue since there are cheaper alternatives for all classes of weapons and the differences between them aren't game breakingly large (reforges are a different beast but good reforged low end cheap gear can beat out unreforged high end gear). If you think using a certain weapon is going to be a loss, then simply don't use it, use something you're comfortable maintaining. The only thing to actually complain about is envy, namely the fact that someone can afford to build, use and maintain something that is superior.

    I am complaining that there is no point. I am particularly peeved that there is no incentive to use it, due to incredible inefficiency. This weapon operates on a loss, depending on gold obtained beforehand

    No one gets rich using unsustainable methods, and the margin isn't enough or "needed" in any high level content. I could not use it, sure, but that belies my main criticism; implementing content that isn't viable. I do want nice weapons, but I want things I can actually use.

    There are no economic means to using this weapon itself, nor are any avenue opened up. This is distinctive facet in the general overview of how one makes gold.

    Hence the issue of utilizing it being not to make gold, but "Can I kill it or not kill it?" The latter seems irrelevant.

    To reiterate, I am irked by content that has no incentive for anyone to partake in. You cannot maintain this weapon if one uses it, in most content at most levels, including anything consider high level content. It's a bragging rights weapon, nothing more.

    I speak of efficiency, not of having money to throw for the sake of it. The idea of trying to cut down on inflation via this method seems idiotic; it wasn't just a general rise of gold earnings versus fixed prices for the playerbase or anything of that sort, but people who were around to exploit recently nerfed methods of gold acquisition, resulting in a massive influx of gold to very few players in the population.

    At what point would catering a weapon to them would do for anyone else without that fortune?

    You may need to operate on a loss when your goal isn't to get gold from what your running but to simply complete it. The point is that there is a cost vs performance situation to consider, if you are doing things that are just simply build up gold or resources, then you aim for cost effective solution. If the point is to complete something challenging then you'd aim for performance. There are plenty of situations where one would use a high end weapon with little regard for the cost of using something like this. Its possible that people build gear that they cannot support the use of as a sort of limit breaker, switching over to these equipment would push them to be just strong enough to accomplish a goal even if its not economically efficient. One such example would be soloing a particularly difficult dungeon, one might use weapons gear, and items that are rare and limited in supply just to accomplish said goal. There is no regard for the rewards, the money earned, etc. This is because the challenge itself is the goal, and testing the absolute limit of the player at their absolute best.

    The whole point is that there will be someone that is very good at acquiring the resources required to use and maintain these weapons and the ridiculous repair fees are for those people that can and will amass large fortunes because this is an effective solution to remove gold from the biggest money makers playing the game. Furthermore, there is incentive to use high end expensive and inefficient weapons, to show off the status, wealth and prestige of the player. People forget that this is an MMO, items like cosmetics and extremely high end gear are used to show off that the progress of the player. The incentive isn't resource gain, but self gratification, the fact that you can field something that not everyone can readily use or support is one such reason. Basically the enjoyment of owning and being able to use something rare. Which is why these super high end enchants and weapons have such high repair fees. For people that CAN support these have amassed sufficient funds or have found effective ways to use them efficiently.
    ImaizumiMaiaSherriZephyrmaruShouKPolicromaTHICCthighssavelives
  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited June 7, 2018
    Please use spoiler tags for excessive quoting.
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Ask some questions before using your insane repair rate weapons:
    Am I gold farming? If yes, use that one sword I can full repair for 50k and still one shot everything thanks to power creep.
    Am I material farming hard content? Let's use that 100k/point weapon so that I can effectively farm for a material I could easily sell for that plus a little profit, or maybe even use it to make an even pointy-er sword.
    Honestly the game needs a fully required gold sink like repairs. We've had some monstrous inflation over the years and I'd much rather slowly fix that instead of having to continuously add more trade window capacity so that I can put 500 million in checks for a single item down the road.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Aren't they divine wep exclusive as well?
    The previewed ones appear to be, yeah.

    Wouldn't it be 140k for one point at 98%? I cannot imagine many rewarding content that wouldn't make up for spending one point. ONE POINT.

    It seems that something like Shadow Wiz Elite Spam with Crystals would be "one of the few" given time and durability spent, and one certainly do not need weapons like this for such content.

    In any case, tailoring the economic gold sinks to the 10% who farmed VHM Girgashiy in its heyday hurts the rest of the playerbase. You could say most are not in content that would greatly benefit from such weapons, and that is true. Yet, it is inane to assume that just because a player is strong, that they have mountains of gold sitting around.

    In which case, points to the bigger issue for all of us. This weapon isn't efficient, and many people are adverse to loss in profit already.

    Well its not like your weapons will increase repair fees as you level up, you built the weapon, enchanted it, and reforged it in the manner of your choosing. You can be reasonably strong level and skill wise and still use cheap disposable weapons. The idea is that if you have the economic means of building and maintaining such a weapon, then go ahead. The increased performance is not a super high margin and is mostly reserved for those that wish to pursue something strong and for something to spend their money on.

    There is no issue since there are cheaper alternatives for all classes of weapons and the differences between them aren't game breakingly large (reforges are a different beast but good reforged low end cheap gear can beat out unreforged high end gear). If you think using a certain weapon is going to be a loss, then simply don't use it, use something you're comfortable maintaining. The only thing to actually complain about is envy, namely the fact that someone can afford to build, use and maintain something that is superior.

    I am complaining that there is no point. I am particularly peeved that there is no incentive to use it, due to incredible inefficiency. This weapon operates on a loss, depending on gold obtained beforehand

    No one gets rich using unsustainable methods, and the margin isn't enough or "needed" in any high level content. I could not use it, sure, but that belies my main criticism; implementing content that isn't viable. I do want nice weapons, but I want things I can actually use.

    There are no economic means to using this weapon itself, nor are any avenue opened up. This is distinctive facet in the general overview of how one makes gold.

    Hence the issue of utilizing it being not to make gold, but "Can I kill it or not kill it?" The latter seems irrelevant.

    To reiterate, I am irked by content that has no incentive for anyone to partake in. You cannot maintain this weapon if one uses it, in most content at most levels, including anything consider high level content. It's a bragging rights weapon, nothing more.

    I speak of efficiency, not of having money to throw for the sake of it. The idea of trying to cut down on inflation via this method seems idiotic; it wasn't just a general rise of gold earnings versus fixed prices for the playerbase or anything of that sort, but people who were around to exploit recently nerfed methods of gold acquisition, resulting in a massive influx of gold to very few players in the population.

    At what point would catering a weapon to them would do for anyone else without that fortune?

    You may need to operate on a loss when your goal isn't to get gold from what your running but to simply complete it. The point is that there is a cost vs performance situation to consider, if you are doing things that are just simply build up gold or resources, then you aim for cost effective solution. If the point is to complete something challenging then you'd aim for performance. There are plenty of situations where one would use a high end weapon with little regard for the cost of using something like this. Its possible that people build gear that they cannot support the use of as a sort of limit breaker, switching over to these equipment would push them to be just strong enough to accomplish a goal even if its not economically efficient. One such example would be soloing a particularly difficult dungeon, one might use weapons gear, and items that are rare and limited in supply just to accomplish said goal. There is no regard for the rewards, the money earned, etc. This is because the challenge itself is the goal, and testing the absolute limit of the player at their absolute best.

    The whole point is that there will be someone that is very good at acquiring the resources required to use and maintain these weapons and the ridiculous repair fees are for those people that can and will amass large fortunes because this is an effective solution to remove gold from the biggest money makers playing the game. Furthermore, there is incentive to use high end expensive and inefficient weapons, to show off the status, wealth and prestige of the player. People forget that this is an MMO, items like cosmetics and extremely high end gear are used to show off that the progress of the player. The incentive isn't resource gain, but self gratification, the fact that you can field something that not everyone can readily use or support is one such reason. Basically the enjoyment of owning and being able to use something rare. Which is why these super high end enchants and weapons have such high repair fees. For people that CAN support these have amassed sufficient funds or have found effective ways to use them efficiently.

    What kind of 'challenge' is there in this game that you need to solely build luxury weapon just for completing that 'challenge'...?
    So these new divine weapon+exclusive enchants are basically showoff gears, not for practical use lol... It sounds pathetic for me, if you worked hard to build it, you should be able to use to use it freely.
    Sherri
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    edited June 7, 2018
    Please use spoiler tags for excessive quoting.
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Ask some questions before using your insane repair rate weapons:
    Am I gold farming? If yes, use that one sword I can full repair for 50k and still one shot everything thanks to power creep.
    Am I material farming hard content? Let's use that 100k/point weapon so that I can effectively farm for a material I could easily sell for that plus a little profit, or maybe even use it to make an even pointy-er sword.
    Honestly the game needs a fully required gold sink like repairs. We've had some monstrous inflation over the years and I'd much rather slowly fix that instead of having to continuously add more trade window capacity so that I can put 500 million in checks for a single item down the road.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Aren't they divine wep exclusive as well?
    The previewed ones appear to be, yeah.

    Wouldn't it be 140k for one point at 98%? I cannot imagine many rewarding content that wouldn't make up for spending one point. ONE POINT.

    It seems that something like Shadow Wiz Elite Spam with Crystals would be "one of the few" given time and durability spent, and one certainly do not need weapons like this for such content.

    In any case, tailoring the economic gold sinks to the 10% who farmed VHM Girgashiy in its heyday hurts the rest of the playerbase. You could say most are not in content that would greatly benefit from such weapons, and that is true. Yet, it is inane to assume that just because a player is strong, that they have mountains of gold sitting around.

    In which case, points to the bigger issue for all of us. This weapon isn't efficient, and many people are adverse to loss in profit already.

    Well its not like your weapons will increase repair fees as you level up, you built the weapon, enchanted it, and reforged it in the manner of your choosing. You can be reasonably strong level and skill wise and still use cheap disposable weapons. The idea is that if you have the economic means of building and maintaining such a weapon, then go ahead. The increased performance is not a super high margin and is mostly reserved for those that wish to pursue something strong and for something to spend their money on.

    There is no issue since there are cheaper alternatives for all classes of weapons and the differences between them aren't game breakingly large (reforges are a different beast but good reforged low end cheap gear can beat out unreforged high end gear). If you think using a certain weapon is going to be a loss, then simply don't use it, use something you're comfortable maintaining. The only thing to actually complain about is envy, namely the fact that someone can afford to build, use and maintain something that is superior.

    I am complaining that there is no point. I am particularly peeved that there is no incentive to use it, due to incredible inefficiency. This weapon operates on a loss, depending on gold obtained beforehand

    No one gets rich using unsustainable methods, and the margin isn't enough or "needed" in any high level content. I could not use it, sure, but that belies my main criticism; implementing content that isn't viable. I do want nice weapons, but I want things I can actually use.

    There are no economic means to using this weapon itself, nor are any avenue opened up. This is distinctive facet in the general overview of how one makes gold.

    Hence the issue of utilizing it being not to make gold, but "Can I kill it or not kill it?" The latter seems irrelevant.

    To reiterate, I am irked by content that has no incentive for anyone to partake in. You cannot maintain this weapon if one uses it, in most content at most levels, including anything consider high level content. It's a bragging rights weapon, nothing more.

    I speak of efficiency, not of having money to throw for the sake of it. The idea of trying to cut down on inflation via this method seems idiotic; it wasn't just a general rise of gold earnings versus fixed prices for the playerbase or anything of that sort, but people who were around to exploit recently nerfed methods of gold acquisition, resulting in a massive influx of gold to very few players in the population.

    At what point would catering a weapon to them would do for anyone else without that fortune?

    You may need to operate on a loss when your goal isn't to get gold from what your running but to simply complete it. The point is that there is a cost vs performance situation to consider, if you are doing things that are just simply build up gold or resources, then you aim for cost effective solution. If the point is to complete something challenging then you'd aim for performance. There are plenty of situations where one would use a high end weapon with little regard for the cost of using something like this. Its possible that people build gear that they cannot support the use of as a sort of limit breaker, switching over to these equipment would push them to be just strong enough to accomplish a goal even if its not economically efficient. One such example would be soloing a particularly difficult dungeon, one might use weapons gear, and items that are rare and limited in supply just to accomplish said goal. There is no regard for the rewards, the money earned, etc. This is because the challenge itself is the goal, and testing the absolute limit of the player at their absolute best.

    The whole point is that there will be someone that is very good at acquiring the resources required to use and maintain these weapons and the ridiculous repair fees are for those people that can and will amass large fortunes because this is an effective solution to remove gold from the biggest money makers playing the game. Furthermore, there is incentive to use high end expensive and inefficient weapons, to show off the status, wealth and prestige of the player. People forget that this is an MMO, items like cosmetics and extremely high end gear are used to show off that the progress of the player. The incentive isn't resource gain, but self gratification, the fact that you can field something that not everyone can readily use or support is one such reason. Basically the enjoyment of owning and being able to use something rare. Which is why these super high end enchants and weapons have such high repair fees. For people that CAN support these have amassed sufficient funds or have found effective ways to use them efficiently.

    My point is that it is not usable by anyone who hasn't obtain the fortune beforehand, in methods that were a result of developer oversight that were later fixed, and not merely higher levels promise higher gains.

    I was referring to a previous level of inflation not gradually over the years, but a more recent exploit where players who were both conveniently strong and at the right time WERE able to acquire such vast resources.

    Creating a weapon like this that are only affordable to such folks who utilized methods not available seems dumb in a few ways. First off, they have no method to reacquire this type of gold; second, it discourage similar tiered who have not the opportunity to make such hundreds of millions. If one wishes to make a new update to existing combat equipment, I just want it to be viable in a wider range of content. I mentioned Shadow Wiz Elite due to the idea it is one of the few missions where I could conceivably not use 1 duration for what is 140k-240k a point, and perhaps a few others, while earning around 140k.

    It's not daily runs I am talking of, mind you.

    Many of the objectives in the game are not rewarding enough, nor in need of such marginal increases in power. I would actually berate the game if it is a must have, but past a certain point, few things are.

    While operating at a loss can help alleviate inflation, when the inflation is merely reserved to a particular few, then it irks those like me who could use these weapons, but are greatly off put by the fact that we were not around, nor are there any currently existing methods where payoff is certain.

    The idea that this weapon is prohibitively and unnecessarily expensive, and the narrow range of content that would benefit from this is incredibly low in number, and lesser in necessity.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,497
    Member
    Humans have a work_around tho...

    FH no dur cost is the best thing to happen since sliced bread.

    Even if U were to sport a 10000000000000000000000000000x repair wep.

    U can spam it to clear Rundal ADV HM from top to bottom and suffer no dur loss.

    :)
    ImaizumiTHICCthighssavelives
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    Rhey wrote: »
    Humans have a work_around tho...

    FH no dur cost is the best thing to happen since sliced bread.

    Even if U were to sport a 10000000000000000000000000000x repair wep.

    U can spam it to clear Rundal ADV HM from top to bottom and suffer no dur loss.

    :)

    *Makes Angry Elven noises
    ImaizumiRadiant DawnSherri
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited June 7, 2018
    Please use spoiler tags for excessive quoting.
    Finity wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Ask some questions before using your insane repair rate weapons:
    Am I gold farming? If yes, use that one sword I can full repair for 50k and still one shot everything thanks to power creep.
    Am I material farming hard content? Let's use that 100k/point weapon so that I can effectively farm for a material I could easily sell for that plus a little profit, or maybe even use it to make an even pointy-er sword.
    Honestly the game needs a fully required gold sink like repairs. We've had some monstrous inflation over the years and I'd much rather slowly fix that instead of having to continuously add more trade window capacity so that I can put 500 million in checks for a single item down the road.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Aren't they divine wep exclusive as well?
    The previewed ones appear to be, yeah.

    Wouldn't it be 140k for one point at 98%? I cannot imagine many rewarding content that wouldn't make up for spending one point. ONE POINT.

    It seems that something like Shadow Wiz Elite Spam with Crystals would be "one of the few" given time and durability spent, and one certainly do not need weapons like this for such content.

    In any case, tailoring the economic gold sinks to the 10% who farmed VHM Girgashiy in its heyday hurts the rest of the playerbase. You could say most are not in content that would greatly benefit from such weapons, and that is true. Yet, it is inane to assume that just because a player is strong, that they have mountains of gold sitting around.

    In which case, points to the bigger issue for all of us. This weapon isn't efficient, and many people are adverse to loss in profit already.

    Well its not like your weapons will increase repair fees as you level up, you built the weapon, enchanted it, and reforged it in the manner of your choosing. You can be reasonably strong level and skill wise and still use cheap disposable weapons. The idea is that if you have the economic means of building and maintaining such a weapon, then go ahead. The increased performance is not a super high margin and is mostly reserved for those that wish to pursue something strong and for something to spend their money on.

    There is no issue since there are cheaper alternatives for all classes of weapons and the differences between them aren't game breakingly large (reforges are a different beast but good reforged low end cheap gear can beat out unreforged high end gear). If you think using a certain weapon is going to be a loss, then simply don't use it, use something you're comfortable maintaining. The only thing to actually complain about is envy, namely the fact that someone can afford to build, use and maintain something that is superior.

    I am complaining that there is no point. I am particularly peeved that there is no incentive to use it, due to incredible inefficiency. This weapon operates on a loss, depending on gold obtained beforehand

    No one gets rich using unsustainable methods, and the margin isn't enough or "needed" in any high level content. I could not use it, sure, but that belies my main criticism; implementing content that isn't viable. I do want nice weapons, but I want things I can actually use.

    There are no economic means to using this weapon itself, nor are any avenue opened up. This is distinctive facet in the general overview of how one makes gold.

    Hence the issue of utilizing it being not to make gold, but "Can I kill it or not kill it?" The latter seems irrelevant.

    To reiterate, I am irked by content that has no incentive for anyone to partake in. You cannot maintain this weapon if one uses it, in most content at most levels, including anything consider high level content. It's a bragging rights weapon, nothing more.

    I speak of efficiency, not of having money to throw for the sake of it. The idea of trying to cut down on inflation via this method seems idiotic; it wasn't just a general rise of gold earnings versus fixed prices for the playerbase or anything of that sort, but people who were around to exploit recently nerfed methods of gold acquisition, resulting in a massive influx of gold to very few players in the population.

    At what point would catering a weapon to them would do for anyone else without that fortune?

    You may need to operate on a loss when your goal isn't to get gold from what your running but to simply complete it. The point is that there is a cost vs performance situation to consider, if you are doing things that are just simply build up gold or resources, then you aim for cost effective solution. If the point is to complete something challenging then you'd aim for performance. There are plenty of situations where one would use a high end weapon with little regard for the cost of using something like this. Its possible that people build gear that they cannot support the use of as a sort of limit breaker, switching over to these equipment would push them to be just strong enough to accomplish a goal even if its not economically efficient. One such example would be soloing a particularly difficult dungeon, one might use weapons gear, and items that are rare and limited in supply just to accomplish said goal. There is no regard for the rewards, the money earned, etc. This is because the challenge itself is the goal, and testing the absolute limit of the player at their absolute best.

    The whole point is that there will be someone that is very good at acquiring the resources required to use and maintain these weapons and the ridiculous repair fees are for those people that can and will amass large fortunes because this is an effective solution to remove gold from the biggest money makers playing the game. Furthermore, there is incentive to use high end expensive and inefficient weapons, to show off the status, wealth and prestige of the player. People forget that this is an MMO, items like cosmetics and extremely high end gear are used to show off that the progress of the player. The incentive isn't resource gain, but self gratification, the fact that you can field something that not everyone can readily use or support is one such reason. Basically the enjoyment of owning and being able to use something rare. Which is why these super high end enchants and weapons have such high repair fees. For people that CAN support these have amassed sufficient funds or have found effective ways to use them efficiently.

    What kind of 'challenge' is there in this game that you need to solely build luxury weapon just for completing that 'challenge'...?
    So these new divine weapon+exclusive enchants are basically showoff gears, not for practical use lol... It sounds pathetic for me, if you worked hard to build it, you should be able to use to use it freely.

    I'm not speaking for just end game players, but for player of all ranges. And yes, I do build luxury super high end equipment to run the hardest content possible. Why? Because I want to see what I can do at my best. Anything that gives me just slightly more edge is fun to acquire and experiment with because there's always ways of improving. The resources I acquire is used for my own entertainment, which is to see how far I can take my character. And there are still challenges to take no matter where you are. If you feel like nothing is challenging anymore, then go solo a 500%HP Alban, 50% player dmg, Mage hall. And I know what you will say, you won't do it because there's no gain, no reward worth that effort, and you're right, however, people will still challenge something like this regardless of that fact, because its a challenge, the completion of which is satisfying in its own right.

    You seem completely fixated on efficiency when even in real life people have the same incentive and tendencies. It's not efficient to buy an expensive high maintenance sports car when a normal one is sufficient, but people do it anyways for the joy and satisfaction of it. If you feel like you can't use them without loss, then you're not at the progress required to use that equipment, either level wise, economic progression, or personal skill. And yes, there are ways of using these luxury equipment efficiently and effectively either through experience, mechanics, or strategies.
    Finity wrote: »

    So a lot of endgame gears/enchants are meaningless because they are inefficient and people are advised not to use them. lol

    This misses the point of my argument, which is if you can't afford to use high end gear, then you're not ready for it yet.
    ShouK
  • FinityFinity
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,090
    Posts: 182
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    I'm not speaking for just end game players, but for player of all ranges. And yes, I do build luxury super high end equipment to run the hardest content possible. Why? Because I want to see what I can do at my best. Anything that gives me just slightly more edge is fun to acquire and experiment with because there's always ways of improving. The resources I acquire is used for my own entertainment, which is to see how far I can take my character. And there are still challenges to take no matter where you are. If you feel like nothing is challenging anymore, then go solo a 500%HP Alban, 50% player dmg, Mage hall. And I know what you will say, you won't do it because there's no gain, no reward worth that effort, and you're right, however, people will still challenge something like this regardless of that fact, because its a challenge, the completion of which is satisfying in its own right.

    You seem completely fixated on efficiency when even in real life people have the same incentive and tendencies. It's not efficient to buy an expensive high maintenance sports car when a normal one is sufficient, but people do it anyways for the joy and satisfaction of it. If you feel like you can't use them without loss, then you're not at the progress required to use that equipment, either level wise, economic progression, or personal skill. And yes, there are ways of using these luxury equipment efficiently and effectively either through experience, mechanics, or strategies.
    Finity wrote: »

    So a lot of endgame gears/enchants are meaningless because they are inefficient and people are advised not to use them. lol

    This misses the point of my argument, which is if you can't afford to use high end gear, then you're not ready for it yet.

    I did solo a 500%hp heroic alban with 50% max damage with Aton ciminei anvil stone before- not because it's challenging but because I wanted to upgrade weapons. Good luck using luxury gears there, since it'll kill dura very fast.
    I don't think any challenge in this game deserve "building this luxury gear to only complete XXX"- First of all there's not that much of a challenge in this game that you NEED that gear to complete it. Secondly, I think if you rely on gear that's not real challenge anymore because your gear is making it easier and you won't be able to do it w/o your gear. Challenge should be something like soloing Rabbie phantasm with BDK bow or beam swords. Am I going to do it? No. It's meaningless. Why do I invest in gears? to make things take less time. Not everyone is into "challenge" like you do and there should be other reasons to make progress in game.

    You cannot use these weapons without loss in end game contents. Maybe if you're human and use it only when FH'ing or blading. I don't know what 'mechanics' and 'personal skill' 'economic progression' you are talking about but as an elf dura loss is inevitable. It's not like I can level up and decrease dura loss when I use magnum shot. It's not like I can decrease dura used by figuring out how to use skills(since skills that do not use dura are limited). Even if you have a lot of money and can repair these weapons you're still operating at "loss" because you're spending way more than you're earning. Your words are contradicting, because you're saying "If you cannot use them without loss then you're not ready for yet" and "It's not about cost efficiency, its about challenge" at the same time. It doesn't even make sense anymore trying to justify this absurd repair fee. Personally I have never seen any game that does this. A game that player loses money for running dungeons/missions because they use better gear. And if there is that game is probably garbage. The expensive part should be weapon itself.
    Building divine weapon itself is luxury enough. 40 ancient golden crystals (which would cost 100+m in Mari)+ extras, enchanting until 3 piercing or high roll, special upgrading with Eweca protection stone, and reforging until you get roll you want. If players put that much effort into a weapon they should be able to use it without worrying about repairs, not 'switch to low tier gear because using this weapon is not worth using except for challenging' - it's like paying millions of dollars for a luxury car and keeping it in garage because I have to pay for some special b/s gas that costs 1000$ per gallon to use that car.
    + It's not like Nexon NA put these repair fee here for a reason, Nexon KR put absurd repair fee because they wanted internet cafe revenue and Nexon NA just copied and pasted without any localization like they always does.
    Sherri
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Buffalos wrote: »
    Ask some questions before using your insane repair rate weapons:
    Am I gold farming? If yes, use that one sword I can full repair for 50k and still one shot everything thanks to power creep.
    Am I material farming hard content? Let's use that 100k/point weapon so that I can effectively farm for a material I could easily sell for that plus a little profit, or maybe even use it to make an even pointy-er sword.
    Honestly the game needs a fully required gold sink like repairs. We've had some monstrous inflation over the years and I'd much rather slowly fix that instead of having to continuously add more trade window capacity so that I can put 500 million in checks for a single item down the road.
    Rhey wrote: »
    Aren't they divine wep exclusive as well?
    The previewed ones appear to be, yeah.

    Wouldn't it be 140k for one point at 98%? I cannot imagine many rewarding content that wouldn't make up for spending one point. ONE POINT.

    It seems that something like Shadow Wiz Elite Spam with Crystals would be "one of the few" given time and durability spent, and one certainly do not need weapons like this for such content.

    In any case, tailoring the economic gold sinks to the 10% who farmed VHM Girgashiy in its heyday hurts the rest of the playerbase. You could say most are not in content that would greatly benefit from such weapons, and that is true. Yet, it is inane to assume that just because a player is strong, that they have mountains of gold sitting around.

    In which case, points to the bigger issue for all of us. This weapon isn't efficient, and many people are adverse to loss in profit already.

    Well its not like your weapons will increase repair fees as you level up, you built the weapon, enchanted it, and reforged it in the manner of your choosing. You can be reasonably strong level and skill wise and still use cheap disposable weapons. The idea is that if you have the economic means of building and maintaining such a weapon, then go ahead. The increased performance is not a super high margin and is mostly reserved for those that wish to pursue something strong and for something to spend their money on.

    There is no issue since there are cheaper alternatives for all classes of weapons and the differences between them aren't game breakingly large (reforges are a different beast but good reforged low end cheap gear can beat out unreforged high end gear). If you think using a certain weapon is going to be a loss, then simply don't use it, use something you're comfortable maintaining. The only thing to actually complain about is envy, namely the fact that someone can afford to build, use and maintain something that is superior.

    I am complaining that there is no point. I am particularly peeved that there is no incentive to use it, due to incredible inefficiency. This weapon operates on a loss, depending on gold obtained beforehand

    No one gets rich using unsustainable methods, and the margin isn't enough or "needed" in any high level content. I could not use it, sure, but that belies my main criticism; implementing content that isn't viable. I do want nice weapons, but I want things I can actually use.

    There are no economic means to using this weapon itself, nor are any avenue opened up. This is distinctive facet in the general overview of how one makes gold.

    Hence the issue of utilizing it being not to make gold, but "Can I kill it or not kill it?" The latter seems irrelevant.

    To reiterate, I am irked by content that has no incentive for anyone to partake in. You cannot maintain this weapon if one uses it, in most content at most levels, including anything consider high level content. It's a bragging rights weapon, nothing more.

    I speak of efficiency, not of having money to throw for the sake of it. The idea of trying to cut down on inflation via this method seems idiotic; it wasn't just a general rise of gold earnings versus fixed prices for the playerbase or anything of that sort, but people who were around to exploit recently nerfed methods of gold acquisition, resulting in a massive influx of gold to very few players in the population.

    At what point would catering a weapon to them would do for anyone else without that fortune?

    You may need to operate on a loss when your goal isn't to get gold from what your running but to simply complete it. The point is that there is a cost vs performance situation to consider, if you are doing things that are just simply build up gold or resources, then you aim for cost effective solution. If the point is to complete something challenging then you'd aim for performance. There are plenty of situations where one would use a high end weapon with little regard for the cost of using something like this. Its possible that people build gear that they cannot support the use of as a sort of limit breaker, switching over to these equipment would push them to be just strong enough to accomplish a goal even if its not economically efficient. One such example would be soloing a particularly difficult dungeon, one might use weapons gear, and items that are rare and limited in supply just to accomplish said goal. There is no regard for the rewards, the money earned, etc. This is because the challenge itself is the goal, and testing the absolute limit of the player at their absolute best.

    The whole point is that there will be someone that is very good at acquiring the resources required to use and maintain these weapons and the ridiculous repair fees are for those people that can and will amass large fortunes because this is an effective solution to remove gold from the biggest money makers playing the game. Furthermore, there is incentive to use high end expensive and inefficient weapons, to show off the status, wealth and prestige of the player. People forget that this is an MMO, items like cosmetics and extremely high end gear are used to show off that the progress of the player. The incentive isn't resource gain, but self gratification, the fact that you can field something that not everyone can readily use or support is one such reason. Basically the enjoyment of owning and being able to use something rare. Which is why these super high end enchants and weapons have such high repair fees. For people that CAN support these have amassed sufficient funds or have found effective ways to use them efficiently.

    What kind of 'challenge' is there in this game that you need to solely build luxury weapon just for completing that 'challenge'...?
    So these new divine weapon+exclusive enchants are basically showoff gears, not for practical use lol... It sounds pathetic for me, if you worked hard to build it, you should be able to use to use it freely.


    I'm not speaking for just end game players, but for player of all ranges. And yes, I do build luxury super high end equipment to run the hardest content possible. Why? Because I want to see what I can do at my best. Anything that gives me just slightly more edge is fun to acquire and experiment with because there's always ways of improving. The resources I acquire is used for my own entertainment, which is to see how far I can take my character. And there are still challenges to take no matter where you are. If you feel like nothing is challenging anymore, then go solo a 500%HP Alban, 50% player dmg, Mage hall. And I know what you will say, you won't do it because there's no gain, no reward worth that effort, and you're right, however, people will still challenge something like this regardless of that fact, because its a challenge, the completion of which is satisfying in its own right.

    You seem completely fixated on efficiency when even in real life people have the same incentive and tendencies. It's not efficient to buy an expensive high maintenance sports car when a normal one is sufficient, but people do it anyways for the joy and satisfaction of it. If you feel like you can't use them without loss, then you're not at the progress required to use that equipment, either level wise, economic progression, or personal skill. And yes, there are ways of using these luxury equipment efficiently and effectively either through experience, mechanics, or strategies.
    Finity wrote: »

    So a lot of endgame gears/enchants are meaningless because they are inefficient and people are advised not to use them. lol

    This misses the point of my argument, which is if you can't afford to use high end gear, then you're not ready for it yet.

    To reiterate, no one can afford to use this gear in most any content, because duration loss is inevitable, and the repair fee x10 per point is insane compared to expected gains. It is a matter of efficiency, because I expected enchant scrolls geared towards combat experience to be a certain amount of viable. It is a white elephant essentially. I cannot afford to run these because there is nothing that would recoup the losses. I haven't experience any content that consistently would make it profitable outside of valuable drops.

    Efficiency is a manner of maintenance, of upkeep. When so few content come to mind that would warrant such beyond "challenge", and even those are rather suspect of themselves in necessity or otherwise.

    "Can't afford to run it?" No one can "afford" to run it; having loads of gold beforehand doesn't change that. It's a loss, pure and simple.

    This is a complaint of the repair fee, but also how content doesn't reward players that well either.

    I speak for those who aren't sitting on the hundreds of millions gained from slaughtering those VHM Girgashiys before it was patched, in that we want upgrades that are well worth the cost. The vagueness of "And yes, there are ways of using these luxury equipment efficiently and effectively either through experience, mechanics, or strategies" is troubling, because it is too general a statement. How, exactly, do I make more money than I lose from duration, if my repair rate is 143k a point at 98%, to 400k at 100%, maybe taking in consideration repair kits, which i surmise is around...250k each?

    The conclusion that this works as a way to alleviate inflation is laughable, since the inflation isn't spread out over the entire playerbase, but highly concentrated in a few individual players. Why do you wonder why I get so annoyed when someone suggests making things for these players, based on a developer oversight that should have been noticed before it was launched?

    There must be a distinction made between the idea that 500 gold in Generation 1 is equivalent to 50,000 gold, and the fact that the richest players have more golden than hundreds of players in a method long since patched.

    I simply want the best, and the best to not net me losses.
    Sherri
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    Finity wrote: »

    I did solo a 500%hp heroic alban with 50% max damage with Aton ciminei anvil stone before- not because it's challenging but because I wanted to upgrade weapons. Good luck using luxury gears there, since it'll kill dura very fast.
    You cannot use them without loss in end game contents. Maybe if you're human and use it only when FH'ing or blading. I don't know what 'mechanics' and 'personal skill' 'economic progression' you are talking about but as an elf dura loss is inevitable. It's not like I can level up and decrease dura loss when I use magnum shot. It's not like I can decrease dura used by figuring out how to use skills(since skills that do not use dura are limited). Even if you have a lot of money and can repair these weapons you're still operating at "loss" because you're spending way more than you're earning. Your words are contradicting, because you're saying "If you cannot use them without loss then you're not ready for yet" and "It's not about cost efficiency, its about challenge" at the same time.

    Building divine weapon itself is luxury enough. 40 ancient golden crystals (which would cost 100+m in Mari)+ extras, enchanting until 3 piercing or high roll, special upgrading with Eweca protection stone, and reforging until you get roll you want. If players put that much effort into a weapon they should be able to use it without worrying about repairs, not 'switch to low tier gear because using this weapon is not worth using except for challenging' - it's like paying millions of dollars for a luxury car and keeping it in garage because I have to pay for some special b/s gas that costs 1000$ per gallon to use that car.
    + It's not like Nexon NA put these repair fee here for a reason, Nexon KR put absurd repair fee because they wanted internet cafe revenue and Nexon NA just copied and pasted without any localization like they always does.

    Okay then, if you want a course on equipment efficiency then lets go.

    Mechanical Efficiency - Using the mechanics of the game to save on durability. Skills that do no consume dura are limited and not readily available in all cases, as such you alter your battle strategy to minimize durability loss as much as possible, how does one do this? Minimizing the amount of Dura consume strikes required. The basic strategy is to use single high multiplier strikes on enemies, and using Multi-targetting strikes for groups. However, there are situations that require a bit of extra thinking. If mobs have HPs that are higher, you can do some simple analysis to figure out using what skills incurs the lowest amount of strikes. A simple situation is you are facing two enemies at the same time, you have 1 single target skill that will kill one in a single strike, and you have a multi-strike skill that will requires 3 times to kill both, then you will favor the single strike, if the same mobs are present, but there are now more, say, 4, then you would favor the use of the multi-strike skill. This would reduce the amount of strikes required to take down a target. Another strategy is to use the stronger weapon as an opening attack, reducing the enemy HP by a large amount before switching to a weaker, less expensive weapon to finish them. This can also serve the dual purpose of increase combat speed as a different weapon type means using a different skill that is not on cool down. The idea behind this is to minimize strikes required by a specific weapon, making use of the mechanics such as skill advantages, weapon switching, and skill effects will help strike efficiency. There are many more methods by these are some basic ones you can employ provided you analyze the situation a bit.

    Economical Progress - (I can't believe you can't figure this out) The measure of how well and how accessible the player is to income sources. Direct Combat is not the only income source available to players, such avenues such as commercing, player services, and bartering are also acceptable sources of income. Commercing is simple enough, the combat is light and can be generally avoid save for a few instances, and can be done in groups for safety. The ducats earned can be used to buy goods that can be sold to other players for added profit. Second is player services, items that are usually consumed by players such as holy water, potions, and materials can be provided by someone who acquires or crafts these. Simple produce and sell avenues here. Finally we have conventional bartering, the buying and selling of goods on the player market. Knowledge in the market values and fluctuations can make a person very wealthy, all without launching a single attack on that expensive piece of gear. In this sense this can show how well versed you are in controlling your finances and using your assets to improve what upon that.

    Personal skill - This is the skill of the player, not the character. How well you respond to any given situation is dependent on how good the person playing the character is. Things like knowing how to adjust strategy, skill sets and weapons to best suit the situation are examples of personal skill. Other things like knowing exactly what to build, synergizing your skills with each other and knowing what you are fighting are all measures of personal skill. There is also personal skill in the above mention efficiency and how well you implement those. Playing the game is one way to improve this, as your experience gains, so to does your skill in different aspects. The different avenues and workaround exists and can be used. This is a mark of personal progression and skill. Here are some tips you can use, try experimenting with different skill combinations, it can be both fun and challenging to adjust your current combat style through mixing and matching. Perhaps you've forgotten how that certain skill combinations work well with each other, or that combining certain skill produces a specific result. An example, Defense and counter do not reset fighter chains, so you can use it them in between fighter combos as a way to "guard" against enemy pings.

    Basically get good at the game, not just the combat, but there are other aspects to learn before you are *actually* ready for certain things. These things players have learned and use on an instinctual level, but rarely do they look and understand. And for the record, yes, I do exactly that, I use my luxury gear in ridiculous Alban runs, solo phantasms, and other such things because I know how to effectively use my equipment to minimize what damage I do to them if I use more than I anticipated, then I look for ways to improve, what did I mistake on, did I use my skills effectively, things that I check if I'm unsatisfied with my style. I make use of various aspects of the game to build, support and maintain my equipment and I'm for the most part a free player. Finally I built my lance by collecting the materials from the boxes, I didn't need to spend this mythical 100m you seem to be sore about for it, and when I got to build and use it I was fully ready to support and maintain the weapon and I use it freely, because again, I'M READY FOR IT. If I can do this, then there are no barriers for you either.


    The conclusion that this works as a way to alleviate inflation is laughable, since the inflation isn't spread out over the entire playerbase, but highly concentrated in a few individual players. Why do you wonder why I get so annoyed when someone suggests making things for these players, based on a developer oversight that should have been noticed before it was launched?

    There must be a distinction made between the idea that 500 gold in Generation 1 is equivalent to 50,000 gold, and the fact that the richest players have more golden than hundreds of players in a method long since patched.

    I simply want the best, and the best to not net me losses.

    The thing is, this is not spread out across the entire player base. Lower level players would have cheaper and easier to maintain weapons that is within their ability to repair. Beginners are not handed fully enchanted divine weapons with 10x on them when they start, they are given a base weapon with a repair fee of 1g. They work their way up from there, gaining new weapons as they progress and along with better weapons, a pricier maintenance tag. The 10x for what is the best available things in the game are geared for the best players, players who have the capacity to not only obtain it, but use it, and players what hold large amounts of wealth that are a good target for anti-inflation measures. If you want the best, then you better be prepared to PAY FOR the best.
    Sherri
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,485
    Posts: 222
    Member
    you missed his point he has fun by having unsustainable gear that runs on the red numbers

    makes sense, totally, not complete bull
    SherriFinity
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    KelpSoda wrote: »
    you missed his point he has fun by having unsustainable gear that runs on the red numbers

    makes sense, totally, not complete bull

    Well I have fun and I still make money, can improve my gear, and buy nice things despite all that so... I guess I'm god now? I guess that make sense too.
    Sherri
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    @Blissfulkill idk about you but I don't my use conqueror girg Celtic Royal Axe for bash or wm it's exclusively for Fullswing, or my officer girg dowras are for just way of the gun shots. I use automatic tuanes and shuriken for more spamy stuff and to earn gold usually.

    But ultimately you do not NEED to use these absurd enchants or even all the time, that's why they are luxury enchants. I know people who use beams or stepped battle swords for phant and do really well.

    You don't need the absolutely best enchants to do end game thats why it's unnecessary to change these enchants because it's the players choice if they want to use things that will yeild in negative costs
    SherriVeylaine
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    Trythis wrote: »
    @Blissfulkill idk about you but I don't my conqueror girg Celtic Royal Axe for bash or wm it's exclusively for Fullswing, or my officer girg dowras are for just way of the gun shots. I use automatic tuanes and shuriken for more spamy stuff and to earn gold usually.

    But ultimately you do not NEED to use these absurd enchants or even all the time, that's why they are luxury enchants. I know people who use beams or stepped battle swords for phant and do really well.

    You don't need the absolutely best enchants to do end game thats it's unnecessary to change these enchants because it's the players choice if they want to use things that will yeild in negative costs

    The fact I have to make gold with other weapons to use this weapon seems just...absurd. Which I could do, but I rather make gold with this weapon. I mean, I could AFK in Dunbarton with this, but...I could, couldn't I?

    I want these enchants to not run in the red in some content. That's what I really wish for. Not 24/7 usage, just usage.
    Sherri
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    KelpSoda wrote: »
    you missed his point he has fun by having unsustainable gear that runs on the red numbers

    makes sense, totally, not complete bull

    Well I have fun and I still make money, can improve my gear, and buy nice things despite all that so... I guess I'm god now? I guess that make sense too.

    Do you use your most expensive equips all the time? I don't. I know the folly of that. I just don't see where 240k is sustainable except as a means to have fun, which is likely where you and I disagree.
    Sherri
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,795
    Posts: 797
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Finity wrote: »
    There are enough gold sinks in game, and a lot of gold inflating factors are gone(Girg VHM,Saga 2 and conflict got nerfed). There is no need to push absurd repair fee with new content.
    Name a few that everyone uses. Because about the only ones I can think of are the NPC bought dungeon passes that are too cheap, and repairs. If I'm missing a few, please inform me of what they are.
    It's nice that they've removed some of the abused gold sources from the game, but none of that will remove the gold they generated and is currently being stagnated in the market to increase prices of mundane items.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    edited June 7, 2018
    Please use spoiler tags for excessive quoting.
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Finity wrote: »

    I did solo a 500%hp heroic alban with 50% max damage with Aton ciminei anvil stone before- not because it's challenging but because I wanted to upgrade weapons. Good luck using luxury gears there, since it'll kill dura very fast.
    You cannot use them without loss in end game contents. Maybe if you're human and use it only when FH'ing or blading. I don't know what 'mechanics' and 'personal skill' 'economic progression' you are talking about but as an elf dura loss is inevitable. It's not like I can level up and decrease dura loss when I use magnum shot. It's not like I can decrease dura used by figuring out how to use skills(since skills that do not use dura are limited). Even if you have a lot of money and can repair these weapons you're still operating at "loss" because you're spending way more than you're earning. Your words are contradicting, because you're saying "If you cannot use them without loss then you're not ready for yet" and "It's not about cost efficiency, its about challenge" at the same time.

    Building divine weapon itself is luxury enough. 40 ancient golden crystals (which would cost 100+m in Mari)+ extras, enchanting until 3 piercing or high roll, special upgrading with Eweca protection stone, and reforging until you get roll you want. If players put that much effort into a weapon they should be able to use it without worrying about repairs, not 'switch to low tier gear because using this weapon is not worth using except for challenging' - it's like paying millions of dollars for a luxury car and keeping it in garage because I have to pay for some special b/s gas that costs 1000$ per gallon to use that car.
    + It's not like Nexon NA put these repair fee here for a reason, Nexon KR put absurd repair fee because they wanted internet cafe revenue and Nexon NA just copied and pasted without any localization like they always does.

    Okay then, if you want a course on equipment efficiency then lets go.

    Mechanical Efficiency - Using the mechanics of the game to save on durability. Skills that do no consume dura are limited and not readily available in all cases, as such you alter your battle strategy to minimize durability loss as much as possible, how does one do this? Minimizing the amount of Dura consume strikes required. The basic strategy is to use single high multiplier strikes on enemies, and using Multi-targetting strikes for groups. However, there are situations that require a bit of extra thinking. If mobs have HPs that are higher, you can do some simple analysis to figure out using what skills incurs the lowest amount of strikes. A simple situation is you are facing two enemies at the same time, you have 1 single target skill that will kill one in a single strike, and you have a multi-strike skill that will requires 3 times to kill both, then you will favor the single strike, if the same mobs are present, but there are now more, say, 4, then you would favor the use of the multi-strike skill. This would reduce the amount of strikes required to take down a target. Another strategy is to use the stronger weapon as an opening attack, reducing the enemy HP by a large amount before switching to a weaker, less expensive weapon to finish them. This can also serve the dual purpose of increase combat speed as a different weapon type means using a different skill that is not on cool down. The idea behind this is to minimize strikes required by a specific weapon, making use of the mechanics such as skill advantages, weapon switching, and skill effects will help strike efficiency. There are many more methods by these are some basic ones you can employ provided you analyze the situation a bit.

    Economical Progress - (I can't believe you can't figure this out) The measure of how well and how accessible the player is to income sources. Direct Combat is not the only income source available to players, such avenues such as commercing, player services, and bartering are also acceptable sources of income. Commercing is simple enough, the combat is light and can be generally avoid save for a few instances, and can be done in groups for safety. The ducats earned can be used to buy goods that can be sold to other players for added profit. Second is player services, items that are usually consumed by players such as holy water, potions, and materials can be provided by someone who acquires or crafts these. Simple produce and sell avenues here. Finally we have conventional bartering, the buying and selling of goods on the player market. Knowledge in the market values and fluctuations can make a person very wealthy, all without launching a single attack on that expensive piece of gear. In this sense this can show how well versed you are in controlling your finances and using your assets to improve what upon that.

    Personal skill - This is the skill of the player, not the character. How well you respond to any given situation is dependent on how good the person playing the character is. Things like knowing how to adjust strategy, skill sets and weapons to best suit the situation are examples of personal skill. Other things like knowing exactly what to build, synergizing your skills with each other and knowing what you are fighting are all measures of personal skill. There is also personal skill in the above mention efficiency and how well you implement those. Playing the game is one way to improve this, as your experience gains, so to does your skill in different aspects. The different avenues and workaround exists and can be used. This is a mark of personal progression and skill. Here are some tips you can use, try experimenting with different skill combinations, it can be both fun and challenging to adjust your current combat style through mixing and matching. Perhaps you've forgotten how that certain skill combinations work well with each other, or that combining certain skill produces a specific result. An example, Defense and counter do not reset fighter chains, so you can use it them in between fighter combos as a way to "guard" against enemy pings.

    Basically get good at the game, not just the combat, but there are other aspects to learn before you are *actually* ready for certain things. These things players have learned and use on an instinctual level, but rarely do they look and understand. And for the record, yes, I do exactly that, I use my luxury gear in ridiculous Alban runs, solo phantasms, and other such things because I know how to effectively use my equipment to minimize what damage I do to them if I use more than I anticipated, then I look for ways to improve, what did I mistake on, did I use my skills effectively, things that I check if I'm unsatisfied with my style. I make use of various aspects of the game to build, support and maintain my equipment and I'm for the most part a free player. Finally I built my lance by collecting the materials from the boxes, I didn't need to spend this mythical 100m you seem to be sore about for it, and when I got to build and use it I was fully ready to support and maintain the weapon and I use it freely, because again, I'M READY FOR IT. If I can do this, then there are no barriers for you either.


    The conclusion that this works as a way to alleviate inflation is laughable, since the inflation isn't spread out over the entire playerbase, but highly concentrated in a few individual players. Why do you wonder why I get so annoyed when someone suggests making things for these players, based on a developer oversight that should have been noticed before it was launched?

    There must be a distinction made between the idea that 500 gold in Generation 1 is equivalent to 50,000 gold, and the fact that the richest players have more golden than hundreds of players in a method long since patched.

    I simply want the best, and the best to not net me losses.

    The thing is, this is not spread out across the entire player base. Lower level players would have cheaper and easier to maintain weapons that is within their ability to repair. Beginners are not handed fully enchanted divine weapons with 10x on them when they start, they are given a base weapon with a repair fee of 1g. They work their way up from there, gaining new weapons as they progress and along with better weapons, a pricier maintenance tag. The 10x for what is the best available things in the game are geared for the best players, players who have the capacity to not only obtain it, but use it, and players what hold large amounts of wealth that are a good target for anti-inflation measures. If you want the best, then you better be prepared to PAY FOR the best.

    I am banging my head at having that argument misunderstood, though perhaps I am failing to comprehend yours. I believe I should ask for a source, but where is specific usage of this weapon sustainable, that isn't gained through any other method, and is consistent enough to pay for the expected duration lost?

    I specifically mention a subset of players because the inflation is heavily favored more than what the developers expected due to certain events, to the point they shut specific methods down so that the value of gold wouldn't become worthless except in the bulk only the top players had achieve in that time frame.

    I can believe you when you say luxury for the sake of pride is a viable goal, but I fail to see where the profit margins are not red across the board. Though I am honestly not familiar with preventing or slowing duration loss. As an elf, we don't have access to final hit, so that skill is out.

    I suppose I should clarify, gold has dropped in value because overall, we earned more of it, yet the distribution is way off more than it should, due to the aforementioned factors. While higher geared players should pay more to use their gear, I also expect a certain amount of profit for higher geared players, to cover costs and make dough.

  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited June 1, 2018
    @Blissfulkill I should of elaborated.

    The guns ( the officer girg dowras ) for example wotg does not use dura for normal attacks just like FH for humans.
    As for my Axe I could use it for wiz elite run but my tuanes and shuriken still do a great job and wave clear. So I'm not using my conqueror girg axe too often , infact most of the time I use FGS is if my party is in danger of wipe in phant or alban so no I don't even use it casually in endgame either.

    Basically this just falls under different point of views, people like you want efficeny over anything else while others want the absolute best min/maxing while cost being irrevalent and then people like me in the middle.

    Also I don't afk with that equipped since it uses dura.