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Thoughts On G21? (Content And Story)

Comments

  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
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    Haven't played yet but...
    Is Talvish going to end up being the Elder? I swear....I had thought all of the old Avalon peoples died in some sort of ritual death ( "my family member died and soon I too will join Aton Cimeni"). It would explain why we can't find his body though; it's walking around right next to us.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
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    Haven't played yet but...
    Is Talvish going to end up being the Elder? I swear....I had thought all of the old Avalon peoples died in some sort of ritual death ( "my family member died and soon I too will join Aton Cimeni"). It would explain why we can't find his body though; it's walking around right next to us.

    If you want spoilers
    Yeah, he is the elder it didn't come as that big of a surprise to me, but I think how it gets explained is cool because you see a lot of things as early as g19 fit into place.
  • WolfandWolfWolfandWolf
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,890
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    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Haven't played yet but...
    Is Talvish going to end up being the Elder? I swear....I had thought all of the old Avalon peoples died in some sort of ritual death ( "my family member died and soon I too will join Aton Cimeni"). It would explain why we can't find his body though; it's walking around right next to us.

    If you want spoilers
    Yeah, he is the elder it didn't come as that big of a surprise to me, but I think how it gets explained is cool because you see a lot of things as early as g19 fit into place.

    Sure, I don't mind spoilers. I likely won't be able to do the gen for a while, and my curiosity is itching me.
    I didn't notice anything in particular back in G19. G20 I felt a little suspicious because Caswyn seemed like the most intuitive of the knights and he was suspicious. Also there was the whole "how do the apostles know our actions", but I still don't have any proof that it's him. The explanation came from Avelin's dream sequence crystal thingy where Brilluin kills her brother and says they've been spying on them through her hairband. But I'm not sure how much to trust that dream sequence.

    The April Fools' sequence had Talvish dressed like Tarlach from Saga, suggesting betrayal. He (Talvish) was rather smug about it too ("does this make you uncomfortable?" or something to that effect). But the stuff that REALLY had me going was that part I had mentioned to you before, in G21 part 1 with the crystals and how odd it was that they were activated.

    I thought about the possibility of Talvish being the Elder, but I also kind of disregarded it. I thought for sure that all of the past memory sequences with the former residents of Avalon was pointing to them doing some kind of ritual death to "become one with the land of Avalon" or something to that effect. It really does seem like all of the residents of Avalon were either dying on purpose or being wiped out because the population wasn't somehow sustainable. Thus, I thought it would have been more likely that the Elder had died with them. And that the Elder's grave was right in front of our noses in that large grave you see in that forest clearing. Then again, in retrospect it does make more sense that the Apostles have been one step ahead all this time, only to be stumped when trying to locate the Elder's body. Hard to find a body if you think you're looking for a corpse when it's right next to you walking and talking.

    Were the former Avalon residents part of some death ritual, btw? Or was I just misinterpreting their nonchalance about dying and "joining Aton Cimeni"?
  • MhaolMhaol
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,215
    Posts: 108
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    I'm disappointed with G21. With its ending, it brought up the question "Okay, so what was the point of this entire chapter then?"
    DevCat built up a lot of potential with G19 and 20, and then it all just fell flat on its face with G21.
    +Who/What is Mother Ladeca?
    We won't know! Cus they buzzed off the moment we killed all their monsters in Avalon! Seriously? that was their last attack??? (-___-)

    +Talvis being the Elder?
    Okay, fine... but he just poofs? His Arc was decent and all, kinda comical with Merlin there. But he wasn't Finale-Boss worthy. That entire fight felt more like a fist-to-cuffs drunken match where in the end, both sides sit down and enjoy another drink.

    *Two Birds one stone moment: They Could've had Talvish go take on the otherworldy God while we were fighting off the Waves of mobs- AND drop in the Apostles from this Chapter. So that entire mission felt more like a Boss-Rush as You're defending Erinn on the ground, and Talvish is who-knows-where trying to stop the other God.

    +Altam.
    UGGGGGGGGHHHH. They built his character up... to end with him being a goof and reciting the Motto. They could've made his part far more impactful if he took ownership of the Sword from Talvish. Saying his will/desire to help us let him pull it free and have it respond to him now, and not Talvish. Not just knock the boy out and leave him on the sideline.
    Simply put, there's a lot of things that occurred that made an A+ chapter turn into a B. But, it was still a fun chapter. Decent story writing for 80% of it, and I give DevCat props for actually exploring the Milletian's PTSD from the previous 20 Generations+Side stories, and their own personal Identity crisis. That part was well done.

    FOXAssassin
  • dowiedowie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,800
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    Member
    It felt like a lot of rushed gibberish towards the end though I'm not really fond of this story anyways.
    FOXAssassinMhaolTwelie
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
    Member
    I kinda wished that the turtle fight is also a field raid like Moku and Sylv, because locking it behind a mission that you need to recruit party members for, means that you have to be acquainted with strong players to do it or be in an active guild. I tried 4 runs with a random party, 2 success and 2 failed. People kept saying to spike in order of your party number. I just don't get why, stronger party members should just focus on attacking instead, and people who can't deal high damage can just spike. So the attackers don't have to cancel FH just to spike. Of course, you can surpass the turtle's heal with a high enough dps, but it's highly unlikely to achieve it with a random party.
  • dowiedowie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,800
    Posts: 184
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Alright here's some of my thoughts going into these bosses/missions.
    First my stats It's nearly 15k ttl (level/explorer)
    I went into this using a pair of crk (r5/r6 nothing on reforges other than wutever I was given with the hammer to unlock them). I've only bought a couple pets and trading partner with NX. I pretty much fund myself playing the game (merch/commerce)

    Anyways first boss
    Tagar the much bigger grim reaper.

    Damage Output
    500-600 damage per hit
    I didn't feel like soul link would be very helpful because the hits were so high my pet would die easily.

    Attacks
    A very wide swing which is what will be happening most of the time. I think if you can run behind it you can dodge it but the problem is the boss doesn't teleport right on top of you. If you have fleet feet or are an elf you can just outrun it.

    Vertical swing which does about same damage.

    A slow which I don't think does anything else.

    A teleport in good ol grim reaper fashion.

    Strategy
    What you're supposed to do is just dodge stuff for a while until you get told to break a pillar when it is close. You'll see a small red circle on a pillar indicating which one to go to and hit when it is in it. If you fail then you need to go to another one. If you succeed then it gets stunned and you get told to do it again 2 or 3 times I forget. After that the defenses will be shredded and you can just pound away and tank the hits if you want or dodge them accordingly. Apparently you can cheese this with hydra but I won't go into that because I didn't do it that way.

    Problems with the Fight
    Getting Tagar within the red circle is a challenge. It is fairly annoying as it doesnt teleport on top of you and the circle is very small. You have to kind of start on one side of the pillar and move to the next as it is teleporting to you in order to get it in there then you hit the pillar before it teleports again or hits you. Every fail is a lot of damage so hope the AI cooperates. Other than that it dies relatively quickly once you go through all the pillar stuff ( the pillar stuff will very likely take the largest portion of time).

    Second mission
    The golem that I forget the name of!
    Really it's very simple. Just move move move until you get to the orb near the portal and smack it. I think then you hit the golem or something and it ends? Nothing much to say here. If you stay in the circles too long ( the duration is very short) you'll get teleported back to where you started.

    Third Mission
    prophets and the thing boss whatever
    I believe its just survive if I remember right . The boss can dash all over the place and be annoying but it's just run around and live until time passes.

    Fourth Mission /3rd boss
    Doppleganger yaaaaaaa
    Starting off you'll be face to face with your doppleganger. It's pretty much identical to the shadow mission one where it just loves using alchemy. Shortly after clones spawn to annoy you. Their health is very low but depending on your equips they can actually hurt ( they hit me for around 120 a hit.)

    Attacks
    The main doppleganger will use wind blast / water cannon I think / and flame burst. None of them do any serious damage. Not sure at what percent but it can also do shadow spirit from demigod transform. Between all the hit stun and knock backs from wind blast / flame burst into shadow spirit , it can be extremely annoying to get hits in.
    The clones just use general attacks and aren't all too special from my observation.

    Strategy
    I used soul link here because the damage wasn't really all that high. I ran off to the side of the area and the main doppel followed with 1 or 2 clones. The clones died super fast which was surprising but they did do a good bit of damage. Once I was situated I just used FH combined with bashes to wittle it down. I just ignored the warning of more clones and such as they felt content to just stand in the middle. The main doppel was incredibly annoying because it would rotate wind blast into flame burst and shadow spirits when it was low.

    Complaints
    Only thing I can really say is that it has so much hp it's pretty insane. FH brought it down to half but doing the rest before it came back up was pretty slow considering it's attacks had so much hit stun.

    Fifth mission
    Well it's more of keep Altam alive
    You move so slow but you need to crawl on over to the right or left side and grab the books . There should be 3. Don't worry if altam gets hit once from the judgement blade. Then you crawl on back till you are near Altam. You need to use the books when you see the sword appear from judgement blade. The white words that appear on the screen are too early. Just time every book use and it will be over.

    Sixth mission
    You get to be Altam
    I'm not sure if the mission was clear in this but you need to take out all the sprites. I ran to my character trapped in ice while ignoring the sprites and it told me that when i started hitting the ice. Thus i had to backtrack. Bash pretty much cleans everything out with charge closing gaps

    Seventh mission
    Talvish weird form
    Alright so right off it's confusing what to do but you just need to do like 20% or so hp and the next part starts.

    Attacks
    Area attacks similar to Tagar really
    Wide swing and vertical swings for 5-600 . They are dodgeable

    An attack that doesnt damage you but disables your crusader skill. I couldn't dodge this no matter what I tried but apparently you can outrange it ( though I remember being really far away and it still happening)

    the four judgement blades
    four blades crash down one after each other and then a blast occurs that kills you instantly

    Lightning rod / Ice spear (only casts in part 2)

    He can teleport near you

    Strategy
    Whittle his hp down as you dodge his attacks. When he does his four judgement blade attack, wait for the 2nd blade to fall before using shield of trust. The red blast is what kills you and doing it too early won't catch it. If you fail you die it's that simple. Once he gets beaten down a bit ( it's a lot of hp) the second part will start. Do whatever you can to situate yourself with the 4 new skills you gained which are activate/deactivate divinity , divine blast which is your main skill , blink which lets you teleport , and nova obliteration which is a nuke. Talvish will now ice spear and randomly fire off lightning rods but I never got hit by the lightning rod and the spear did trivial damage. You need to unload divine blasts and try to cast them when they are maxed out on your little minigame bar to increase stacks ( a bar under you). The more stacks you have, the more damage you deal with nova obliteration. You still have to shield of trust his judgement blade attack so don't forget that. It's just rinse and repeat until he's dead. ezgame

    Problems with this fight
    This fight is probably the worst offender for me. The hints were so vague. I thought you were just supposed to find a way to defend against the attack which would weaken him in some way. I died 2 -3 times before it finally said use shield of trust and i finally managed to get the timing down on the judgement blade blast. After that I just decided to hit him until part 2 started. It was really confusing to me because the HP was extremely high and my damage barely did anything really. Also the text just kept repeating itself making me feel like I was doing something wrong.
    There was another issue and that was the crusader canceling skill. I couldn't find a way to dodge it and the boss really seemed intent on casting judgement blade after it a lot which meant lolnaostone time.

    eighth? mission
    Merlin????

    Lemme tell ya the devs are damn trolls putting 3 bolt skills and defend/windmill up while letting rabbits beat the hell outta ya while you're trying to read the stuff. Anyways if you look at your skills you'll notice you're quite loaded. Just use final hit and be done. DON'T TRY TO CAST SPELLS because the stupid bunnies will just knock you all over ( i guess you could beserk and do it but final hit is just faster).

    It's a lotta feedback/words but it's pretty much what I went through doing this stuff. I didn't really find it challenging because I had so many nao stones but I did find some mechanics pretty frustrating. I posted this in another thread but it's probably better here since it's my feedback on the content. I never really have done any raids so i can't contribute here.

    Also something regarding the Divinity transform. My camera seems locked to be fairly close. It won't let me zoom out at all which makes it very very annoying during the transform time.
    Kingofrunes
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Stolias wrote: »
    I'm disappointed with G21. With its ending, it brought up the question "Okay, so what was the point of this entire chapter then?"
    DevCat built up a lot of potential with G19 and 20, and then it all just fell flat on its face with G21.
    +Who/What is Mother Ladeca?
    We won't know! Cus they buzzed off the moment we killed all their monsters in Avalon! Seriously? that was their last attack??? (-___-)

    +Talvis being the Elder?
    Okay, fine... but he just poofs? His Arc was decent and all, kinda comical with Merlin there. But he wasn't Finale-Boss worthy. That entire fight felt more like a fist-to-cuffs drunken match where in the end, both sides sit down and enjoy another drink.

    *Two Birds one stone moment: They Could've had Talvish go take on the otherworldy God while we were fighting off the Waves of mobs- AND drop in the Apostles from this Chapter. So that entire mission felt more like a Boss-Rush as You're defending Erinn on the ground, and Talvish is who-knows-where trying to stop the other God.

    +Altam.
    UGGGGGGGGHHHH. They built his character up... to end with him being a goof and reciting the Motto. They could've made his part far more impactful if he took ownership of the Sword from Talvish. Saying his will/desire to help us let him pull it free and have it respond to him now, and not Talvish. Not just knock the boy out and leave him on the sideline.
    Simply put, there's a lot of things that occurred that made an A+ chapter turn into a B. But, it was still a fun chapter. Decent story writing for 80% of it, and I give DevCat props for actually exploring the Milletian's PTSD from the previous 20 Generations+Side stories, and their own personal Identity crisis. That part was well done.
    The thing is that Talvish really REALLY doesn't want to fight you. He considers you a close friend from across time. Talvish isn't really actually putting his all into the fight and he actually calls it off because of one simple reason. You proved he was wrong. When you obtained Divinity from the OtherWorld you proved that his goals and actions were not irrefutable and that he made an error. Through out the entire exchange he keeps asking you and the knights to stand down and let him do his thing, he even says tells you that he doesn't want to hurt you anymore than he already has. Furthermore, the story Millitian doesn't actually want to hurt Talvish either, so yes, the final conflict isn't a duel to the death between bitter enemies, its a conflict and argument from two close friends.

    Talvish, by the time the Millitian and G19 rolled around has been through so many trials, battles, and lost so much that he's a very broken individual. His reasoning eventually became that as long as his powers are still active, any actions he takes is still right and supported by Aton. When you make him realize that, it's not the case, he departs to wander the world again, partly as atonement, and partly to regain his purpose.

    On the topic of Altam, he's adorable. He's the adorable puppy that will come and defend you no matter how big the thing attacking you is. He deserves more head pats for being such a good puppy.

    Also for the Merlin flashback scene, I can only imagine him in a squeaky bender voice: "I did it!, I'm the greatest!"

    LeineiKingofrunesNeroyBlankeye
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
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    @GTCvActium
    Altam is awesome. The way they handled him in g21 definitely changed my perception of him! In that mission where he had to save the Milletian, it was challenging, but so sooooo appropriate, and the music, god the music! He wanted to be a hero and he did it! =3
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Leinei wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    Altam is awesome. The way they handled him in g21 definitely changed my perception of him! In that mission where he had to save the Milletian, it was challenging, but so sooooo appropriate, and the music, god the music! He wanted to be a hero and he did it! =3
    Honestly I've liked Altam since the very beginning since in nearly all other generations people treat your accomplishments like they've done better. "Oh, you saved the world from a super powerful beast, gods, and demons? Good for you, now go get me some eggs" Altam actually makes me feel like I really did those things since he recognizes and mentions your adventures. It was nice to get some appreciation after getting sandblasted for so long.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
    Posts: 2,433
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    Altam is awesome. The way they handled him in g21 definitely changed my perception of him! In that mission where he had to save the Milletian, it was challenging, but so sooooo appropriate, and the music, god the music! He wanted to be a hero and he did it! =3

    [Spoilers] Honestly I've liked Altam since the very beginning since in nearly all other generations people treat your accomplishments like they've done better. "Oh, you saved the world from a super powerful beast, gods, and demons? Good for you, now go get me some eggs" Altam actually makes me feel like I really did those things since he recognizes and mentions your adventures. It was nice to get some appreciation after getting sandblasted for so long. [/Spoilers]
    Altam was a little creepy for me at first because I wasn't used to that sort of constant praise and it made me suspicious of him potentially being Aton Cimeni in Human form, which I guess is still potentially possible given the fact that he held his Divine Light even after Talvish shut the Knights' power down and he was able to pull out the sword. Basically, he was able to withstand Talvish's abilities because he was the one who gave them to him, and this connects to the sword. If it's true though, Aton probably would have had to nerf his memories as well as his condition, but maybe was only able to do so much (his Divine Light being what couldn't be sealed out). This would explain why he would have had a hard time with Talvish (because he was acting as a mortal). Perhaps he knew that Talvish was going down the wrong path and him appearing as Altam was his response, which Talvish sought for so long in regard to whether or not what he was doing was right.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Leinei wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    Altam is awesome. The way they handled him in g21 definitely changed my perception of him! In that mission where he had to save the Milletian, it was challenging, but so sooooo appropriate, and the music, god the music! He wanted to be a hero and he did it! =3

    [Spoilers] Honestly I've liked Altam since the very beginning since in nearly all other generations people treat your accomplishments like they've done better. "Oh, you saved the world from a super powerful beast, gods, and demons? Good for you, now go get me some eggs" Altam actually makes me feel like I really did those things since he recognizes and mentions your adventures. It was nice to get some appreciation after getting sandblasted for so long. [/Spoilers]
    Altam was a little creepy for me at first because I wasn't used to that sort of constant praise and it made me suspicious of him potentially being Aton Cimeni in Human form, which I guess is still potentially possible given the fact that he held his Divine Light even after Talvish shut the Knights' power down and he was able to pull out the sword. Basically, he was able to withstand Talvish's abilities because he was the one who gave them to him, and this connects to the sword. If it's true though, Aton probably would have had to nerf his memories as well as his condition, but maybe was only able to do so much (his Divine Light being what couldn't be sealed out). This would explain why he would have had a hard time with Talvish (because he was acting as a mortal). Perhaps he knew that Talvish was going down the wrong path and him appearing as Altam was his response, which Talvish sought for so long in regard to whether or not what he was doing was right.
    That is an interesting theory. It would also explain why his power went out of control when he as a young Squire was unlocking it and that fact he's mentioned multiple times to have massive potential. It would be interesting if Altam is an aspect of Aton placed into the world to learn about/guide it. Though, rather than say his memories were nerfed, it could be Aton purposely rebirthed his soul into a mortal body with no memories to learn about the world as a mortal. It would explain why he has no direct actions in the fact that there's a foreign god invading, which oddly enough, Cichol was the one to defend it personally. On that topic, Cichol, as much of an antagonist as he is, is technically completely right in his reasoning for removing the Millitian. The Millitian IS an outworldly entity and their presence does warp Erinn to a degree and as we've seen, can be quite disruptive. I like that he's not a completely black and white antagonist and that he does want the world to be a better place, it's just that his "better" involves copious amounts of murder, genocide, and manipulation.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
    Posts: 2,433
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Stolias wrote: »
    I'm disappointed with G21. With its ending, it brought up the question "Okay, so what was the point of this entire chapter then?"
    DevCat built up a lot of potential with G19 and 20, and then it all just fell flat on its face with G21.
    +Who/What is Mother Ladeca?
    We won't know! Cus they buzzed off the moment we killed all their monsters in Avalon! Seriously? that was their last attack??? (-___-)

    +Talvis being the Elder?
    Okay, fine... but he just poofs? His Arc was decent and all, kinda comical with Merlin there. But he wasn't Finale-Boss worthy. That entire fight felt more like a fist-to-cuffs drunken match where in the end, both sides sit down and enjoy another drink.

    *Two Birds one stone moment: They Could've had Talvish go take on the otherworldy God while we were fighting off the Waves of mobs- AND drop in the Apostles from this Chapter. So that entire mission felt more like a Boss-Rush as You're defending Erinn on the ground, and Talvish is who-knows-where trying to stop the other God.

    +Altam.
    UGGGGGGGGHHHH. They built his character up... to end with him being a goof and reciting the Motto. They could've made his part far more impactful if he took ownership of the Sword from Talvish. Saying his will/desire to help us let him pull it free and have it respond to him now, and not Talvish. Not just knock the boy out and leave him on the sideline.
    Simply put, there's a lot of things that occurred that made an A+ chapter turn into a B. But, it was still a fun chapter. Decent story writing for 80% of it, and I give DevCat props for actually exploring the Milletian's PTSD from the previous 20 Generations+Side stories, and their own personal Identity crisis. That part was well done.
    Regarding Altam, remember, the guy is a mortal battling a GOD or at least the literal child of one. He pulled out a GOD CHILD'S SWORD which not even Merlin could do. He managed to keep his powers while the others lost access to theirs because Talvish blocked them. Personally, my mind is telling me that Altam is the literal response of Aton Cimeni to tell Talvish he's not doing right. Could you imagine if AC had told Talvish that he wasn't doing right? How would he react hearing he who was made from his God was fallible. Rage, despair, hate... ego would come up and potentially cause problems. So instead, perhaps Aton Cimeni went with a different solution: Altam. I think maybe Aton nerfed himself and became a Human destined to wind up within the Knights. It would explain how Altam was able to not have his powers locked and be able to pull out the sword, because if he were Aton Cimeni, he would have given Talvish those powers, stemming originally from him and therefore would be able to combat them.

    Basically, as Altam, AC would be appealing to Talvish's heartstrings about one man against a world of monsters, a position that he too has held for so long, but with a different viewpoint
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
    Posts: 2,433
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    That is an interesting theory. It would also explain why his power went out of control when he as a young Squire was unlocking it and that fact he's mentioned multiple times to have massive potential. It would be interesting if Altam is an aspect of Aton placed into the world to learn about/guide it. Though, rather than say his memories were nerfed, it could be Aton purposely rebirthed his soul into a mortal body with no memories to learn about the world as a mortal. It would explain why he has no direct actions in the fact that there's a foreign god invading, which oddly enough, Cichol was the one to defend it personally. On that topic, Cichol, as much of an antagonist as he is, is technically completely right in his reasoning for removing the Millitian. The Millitian IS an outworldly entity and their presence does warp Erinn to a degree and as we've seen, can be quite disruptive. I like that he's not a completely black and white antagonist and that he does want the world to be a better place, it's just that his "better" involves copious amounts of murder, genocide, and manipulation.
    Yeah, what you said about him rebirthing is pretty much what I meant by nerfing himself. Yeah, Cichol is a jerk, but he's a flexible one.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Leinei wrote: »
    Stolias wrote: »
    I'm disappointed with G21. With its ending, it brought up the question "Okay, so what was the point of this entire chapter then?"
    DevCat built up a lot of potential with G19 and 20, and then it all just fell flat on its face with G21.
    +Who/What is Mother Ladeca?
    We won't know! Cus they buzzed off the moment we killed all their monsters in Avalon! Seriously? that was their last attack??? (-___-)

    +Talvis being the Elder?
    Okay, fine... but he just poofs? His Arc was decent and all, kinda comical with Merlin there. But he wasn't Finale-Boss worthy. That entire fight felt more like a fist-to-cuffs drunken match where in the end, both sides sit down and enjoy another drink.

    *Two Birds one stone moment: They Could've had Talvish go take on the otherworldy God while we were fighting off the Waves of mobs- AND drop in the Apostles from this Chapter. So that entire mission felt more like a Boss-Rush as You're defending Erinn on the ground, and Talvish is who-knows-where trying to stop the other God.

    +Altam.
    UGGGGGGGGHHHH. They built his character up... to end with him being a goof and reciting the Motto. They could've made his part far more impactful if he took ownership of the Sword from Talvish. Saying his will/desire to help us let him pull it free and have it respond to him now, and not Talvish. Not just knock the boy out and leave him on the sideline.
    Simply put, there's a lot of things that occurred that made an A+ chapter turn into a B. But, it was still a fun chapter. Decent story writing for 80% of it, and I give DevCat props for actually exploring the Milletian's PTSD from the previous 20 Generations+Side stories, and their own personal Identity crisis. That part was well done.
    Regarding Altam, remember, the guy is a mortal battling a GOD or at least the literal child of one. He pulled out a GOD CHILD'S SWORD which not even Merlin could do. He managed to keep his powers while the others lost access to theirs because Talvish blocked them. Personally, my mind is telling me that Altam is the literal response of Aton Cimeni to tell Talvish he's not doing right. Could you imagine if AC had told Talvish that he wasn't doing right? How would he react hearing he who was made from his God was fallible. Rage, despair, hate... ego would come up and potentially cause problems. So instead, perhaps Aton Cimeni went with a different solution: Altam. I think maybe Aton nerfed himself and became a Human destined to wind up within the Knights. It would explain how Altam was able to not have his powers locked and be able to pull out the sword, because if he were Aton Cimeni, he would have given Talvish those powers, stemming originally from him and therefore would be able to combat them.

    Basically, as Altam, AC would be appealing to Talvish's heartstrings about one man against a world of monsters, a position that he too has held for so long, but with a different viewpoint
    When Talvish "ascends", he actually is at the very least on par with a 3rd tier god, or in the same rank as Morrighan. But before that he was able to repeal Cichol who is also a 3rd tier god so yeah, Altam went up against someone who could stand against a physical god. Yes, they explicitly stated that the Elder's body infused with unholy light would be stronger than Morrighan, and ascended Talvish is basically that.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    When Talvish "ascends", he actually is at the very least on par with a 3rd tier god, or in the same rank as Morrighan. But before that he was able to repeal Cichol who is also a 3rd tier god so yeah, Altam went up against someone who could stand against a physical god. Yes, they explicitly stated that the Elder's body infused with unholy light would be stronger than Morrighan, and ascended Talvish is basically that.
    Third tier? What makes up the other two? I know Aton Cimeni would probably be Top tier, but who would be second?

    Also, lol this thread is going to be a LOT of spoiler tags before we're done with it. XD
  • KingofrunesKingofrunes
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    edited July 13, 2018
    dowie wrote: »
    Alright here's some of my thoughts going into these bosses/missions.
    First my stats It's nearly 15k ttl (level/explorer)
    I went into this using a pair of crk (r5/r6 nothing on reforges other than wutever I was given with the hammer to unlock them). I've only bought a couple pets and trading partner with NX. I pretty much fund myself playing the game (merch/commerce)

    Anyways first boss
    Tagar the much bigger grim reaper.

    Damage Output
    500-600 damage per hit
    I didn't feel like soul link would be very helpful because the hits were so high my pet would die easily.

    Attacks
    A very wide swing which is what will be happening most of the time. I think if you can run behind it you can dodge it but the problem is the boss doesn't teleport right on top of you. If you have fleet feet or are an elf you can just outrun it.

    Vertical swing which does about same damage.

    A slow which I don't think does anything else.

    A teleport in good ol grim reaper fashion.

    Strategy
    What you're supposed to do is just dodge stuff for a while until you get told to break a pillar when it is close. You'll see a small red circle on a pillar indicating which one to go to and hit when it is in it. If you fail then you need to go to another one. If you succeed then it gets stunned and you get told to do it again 2 or 3 times I forget. After that the defenses will be shredded and you can just pound away and tank the hits if you want or dodge them accordingly. Apparently you can cheese this with hydra but I won't go into that because I didn't do it that way.

    Problems with the Fight
    Getting Tagar within the red circle is a challenge. It is fairly annoying as it doesnt teleport on top of you and the circle is very small. You have to kind of start on one side of the pillar and move to the next as it is teleporting to you in order to get it in there then you hit the pillar before it teleports again or hits you. Every fail is a lot of damage so hope the AI cooperates. Other than that it dies relatively quickly once you go through all the pillar stuff ( the pillar stuff will very likely take the largest portion of time).

    Second mission
    The golem that I forget the name of!
    Really it's very simple. Just move move move until you get to the orb near the portal and smack it. I think then you hit the golem or something and it ends? Nothing much to say here. If you stay in the circles too long ( the duration is very short) you'll get teleported back to where you started.

    Third Mission
    prophets and the thing boss whatever
    I believe its just survive if I remember right . The boss can dash all over the place and be annoying but it's just run around and live until time passes.

    Fourth Mission /3rd boss
    Doppleganger yaaaaaaa
    Starting off you'll be face to face with your doppleganger. It's pretty much identical to the shadow mission one where it just loves using alchemy. Shortly after clones spawn to annoy you. Their health is very low but depending on your equips they can actually hurt ( they hit me for around 120 a hit.)

    Attacks
    The main doppleganger will use wind blast / water cannon I think / and flame burst. None of them do any serious damage. Not sure at what percent but it can also do shadow spirit from demigod transform. Between all the hit stun and knock backs from wind blast / flame burst into shadow spirit , it can be extremely annoying to get hits in.
    The clones just use general attacks and aren't all too special from my observation.

    Strategy
    I used soul link here because the damage wasn't really all that high. I ran off to the side of the area and the main doppel followed with 1 or 2 clones. The clones died super fast which was surprising but they did do a good bit of damage. Once I was situated I just used FH combined with bashes to wittle it down. I just ignored the warning of more clones and such as they felt content to just stand in the middle. The main doppel was incredibly annoying because it would rotate wind blast into flame burst and shadow spirits when it was low.

    Complaints
    Only thing I can really say is that it has so much hp it's pretty insane. FH brought it down to half but doing the rest before it came back up was pretty slow considering it's attacks had so much hit stun.

    Fifth mission
    Well it's more of keep Altam alive
    You move so slow but you need to crawl on over to the right or left side and grab the books . There should be 3. Don't worry if altam gets hit once from the judgement blade. Then you crawl on back till you are near Altam. You need to use the books when you see the sword appear from judgement blade. The white words that appear on the screen are too early. Just time every book use and it will be over.

    Sixth mission
    You get to be Altam
    I'm not sure if the mission was clear in this but you need to take out all the sprites. I ran to my character trapped in ice while ignoring the sprites and it told me that when i started hitting the ice. Thus i had to backtrack. Bash pretty much cleans everything out with charge closing gaps

    Seventh mission
    Talvish weird form
    Alright so right off it's confusing what to do but you just need to do like 20% or so hp and the next part starts.

    Attacks
    Area attacks similar to Tagar really
    Wide swing and vertical swings for 5-600 . They are dodgeable

    An attack that doesnt damage you but disables your crusader skill. I couldn't dodge this no matter what I tried but apparently you can outrange it ( though I remember being really far away and it still happening)

    the four judgement blades
    four blades crash down one after each other and then a blast occurs that kills you instantly

    Lightning rod / Ice spear (only casts in part 2)

    He can teleport near you

    Strategy
    Whittle his hp down as you dodge his attacks. When he does his four judgement blade attack, wait for the 2nd blade to fall before using shield of trust. The red blast is what kills you and doing it too early won't catch it. If you fail you die it's that simple. Once he gets beaten down a bit ( it's a lot of hp) the second part will start. Do whatever you can to situate yourself with the 4 new skills you gained which are activate/deactivate divinity , divine blast which is your main skill , blink which lets you teleport , and nova obliteration which is a nuke. Talvish will now ice spear and randomly fire off lightning rods but I never got hit by the lightning rod and the spear did trivial damage. You need to unload divine blasts and try to cast them when they are maxed out on your little minigame bar to increase stacks ( a bar under you). The more stacks you have, the more damage you deal with nova obliteration. You still have to shield of trust his judgement blade attack so don't forget that. It's just rinse and repeat until he's dead. ezgame

    Problems with this fight
    This fight is probably the worst offender for me. The hints were so vague. I thought you were just supposed to find a way to defend against the attack which would weaken him in some way. I died 2 -3 times before it finally said use shield of trust and i finally managed to get the timing down on the judgement blade blast. After that I just decided to hit him until part 2 started. It was really confusing to me because the HP was extremely high and my damage barely did anything really. Also the text just kept repeating itself making me feel like I was doing something wrong.
    There was another issue and that was the crusader canceling skill. I couldn't find a way to dodge it and the boss really seemed intent on casting judgement blade after it a lot which meant lolnaostone time.

    eighth? mission
    Merlin????

    Lemme tell ya the devs are damn trolls putting 3 bolt skills and defend/windmill up while letting rabbits beat the hell outta ya while you're trying to read the stuff. Anyways if you look at your skills you'll notice you're quite loaded. Just use final hit and be done. DON'T TRY TO CAST SPELLS because the stupid bunnies will just knock you all over ( i guess you could beserk and do it but final hit is just faster).

    It's a lotta feedback/words but it's pretty much what I went through doing this stuff. I didn't really find it challenging because I had so many nao stones but I did find some mechanics pretty frustrating. I posted this in another thread but it's probably better here since it's my feedback on the content. I never really have done any raids so i can't contribute here.

    Also something regarding the Divinity transform. My camera seems locked to be fairly close. It won't let me zoom out at all which makes it very very annoying during the transform time.

    Wish I knew some of those strategies while playing through this. I have to say, G21 was one of the most annoying mainstreams I've done in ages. For me I struggled with the pillars due to timing and lag. The timing is so incredibly fickle with very very little room for error. That mission in particular left me screaming at my screen for hours. The other thing is I don't have any good 1 handers anymore so final hit isn't really an option for me. Used to have good 1handers until a certain incident made me lost most of my gear. Now the only good gear I have is my chains and maybe my dual guns. So I went through most of G21 using gun and chain blade skills.

    I wish I also checked my skill window when I was in that bunny mission with Merlin. That was annoying, I ended up just spamming windmill >.> I had thought to check my skill window after wards but didn't want to ruin the flow of my recording.
    For the Talvish battle, I was panicking due to the time limit and the constant stream of text flashing in my face. I couldn't think straight and thus never got used to my Divinity Skills. They should have increased the time limit to 80 minutes like all the other missions to give players more breathing room and time to think IMO.

    Another complaint I have is on the golem. It's hitbox was too huge. Everytime I tried to keep moving forward I would accidentally click it and run back to it which would make me stay in the circle too long. Solved it by using the map and clicking on where I wanted to go.

    The doppledanger I manage to do in 7 minutes the using chain blade skills + divine link. The other thing you need to be wary of is when the Doppledanger drops below like 40% maybe? The orbs switch to a different strategy where if you don't hit all the orbs in time the doppledanger loads up Shadow Spirit and then uses that which can deal a lot of high damage. However, if you have divine link, your pet will take all the damage from that instead. So if you have a high rank of that subskill that gives your pet instant revivals, your pet can tank that and you can refresh it afterwards. Unfournately mine wasn't high enough for my pet to survive. Divine Link really makes this fight much much easier as it means the doppledanger is focusing all it's attention on the pet and not much on you.

    Story wise I think they wrapped that really nicely. The main take away from the story is the Millitean obtaining new powers and Cichol giving up his policy of non interference. I'm guessing that's why G22 is now focusing on Balor and the fomors. Although it's not clear where Talvish sent Cichol to. I don't think he killed him, it sounded like he just drove off Cichol to get him to buzz off so he could use you as his pawn for his plan instead.

    When I saw the reveal that Talvish was the elder I was like "Oh you have got to be kidding me" although more colorful language was used. Even so, I still love Talvish and respect him. Mainly cause Talvish was simply misguided and after a brief combat he turned out to be quite reasonable and backed down. So no hard feelings with him.

    Altam was also really passionate about saving me and I really love him for that. I actually thought the ending was very fitting and made for a great wrapping up of the entire chapter. Also his food has a really adorable cutscene, but it makes you REALLY REALLY fat. Did not expect to put on so much weight from eating his food D:. I ended up rebirthing immediately cause I couldn't stand how I looked in talvish armour with that weight. That ended up hurting me a lot in the Doppledanger fight going from level 169 -> 1. That was a poor decision on my part.

    I was amused when Cichol showed up and dealt with the prophets. I'm like oh come on, to think you could have easily and quickly solving things just like that, but then I was reminded why it's better when the gods don't intervene. They have a tendency of being petty and unreasonable, unlike Talvish >.>

    Also, I really enjoyed the bits with Treasure Hunter and Merlin, so good to see those 2 goofballs.

    All in all I rate the writing and conclusion of this story 10/10. Overall, I felt the conclusion was done quite proper and wrapped things up rather nicely without leaving me feeling disappointed. Unlike the rushed endings of Saga Iria I and Shakespeare which let's face it, were a complete train wreck of story telling.

    Combat wise I rate this 5/10, far too many annoying missions with very specific mechanics in it. I fear for what G22 has in store.
  • GretaGreta
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Seems like G21 quests are the most tedious ones of Alban Knights chapter and maybe even of all generations. So much boring fights, the only good thing about G21 is the story, new raids/places and Llywelyn.
    Kingofrunes
  • KingofrunesKingofrunes
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    Greta wrote: »
    Seems like G21 quests are the most tedious ones of Alban Knights chapter and maybe even of all generations. So much boring fights, the only good thing about G21 is the story, new raids/places and Llywelyn.

    God I loved how much of a snarky know it all Llyweyln was. He was quite enjoyable but he still rates 2nd to me. Talvish no matter his faults and errors will always be my #1 fav.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Ya'know, was that Merlin RP the first RP we've had where the character had an Ego?

    All I know is that it was kinda wonky-looking
    And why was his Ego named after our character?