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Thoughts On G21? (Content And Story)

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  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Mhaol
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Yeah, Macha wasn't fully... here, so to speak, just allowed to pop in because a gate for her was opened. We destroyed the circle Millia was on (Lia Fail?) and it made her have to leave.
  • GretaGreta
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    Oh i see. Millia smh, why did she trust Ruairi? She is indeed most disliked character for many reasons lol.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Another thing I wonder about her is why is she suddenly able to have visions like that one in Saga 2?

    What she says:
    As the flow of time turns in on itself, angels will appear as the harbingers of the beginning. (Time shenanigans and Talvish/Girgashiy?)
    And when they are done, the three goddesses that have protected this world will lose their seats forever.
    Findia's fate does not end here
    All will disappear when those who sleep are awakened.

    Source Video (start at 32:30)


    Looks like we're just getting started. >=D
    Kingofrunes
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Veylaine wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Yeah I have almost no information on that. I jokingly started saying that Morrighan is her mother.
    Veylaine
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    Posts: 348
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Yeah I have almost no information on that. I jokingly started saying that Morrighan is her mother.

    I see lol, that would be hilarious if it was Morrighan.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Yeah I have almost no information on that. I jokingly started saying that Morrighan is her mother.

    U7Hfw.gif
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Yeah I have almost no information on that. I jokingly started saying that Morrighan is her mother.
    Wouldn't it be the Succubus Queen?
    I mean, all the Succubus Fiends are like young succubus she's still watching over until they grow up, or something.

    Or heck, maybe there's some Fomor Queen I don't know about.
  • MhaolMhaol
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    This thread has shifted into a lore discussion.
  • LeineiLeinei
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Stolias wrote: »
    This thread has shifted into a lore discussion.

    Well, considering the lore has brought us to this most recent point that is g21, it's appropriate. =D

    Millia's vision talks about G21 here in the first line.
    Greta wrote: »
    Oh i see. Millia smh, why did she trust Ruairi? She is indeed most disliked character for many reasons lol.

    Maybe red hair is a sign of those "blessed" by Ladeca? If Millia is Ladeca reborn, maybe she felt she could trust them to a degree because of this?
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    Iyasenu wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Yeah I have almost no information on that. I jokingly started saying that Morrighan is her mother.
    Wouldn't it be the Succubus Queen?
    I mean, all the Succubus Fiends are like young succubus she's still watching over until they grow up, or something.

    Or heck, maybe there's some Fomor Queen I don't know about.
    One interesting to note is that while Penner and the Wizard get sent away in a poof of black smoke that is standard with fomors, Brilluen gets sent away in a light pillar that is very similar to the pet's desummon effect. Cichol even remarks on that fact she *turned* into a succubus implying that she was of a different race prior. Either way looks like Brill is gonna get a might big spanking from dear old mother.
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    Member
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    One interesting to note is that while Penner and the Wizard get sent away in a poof of black smoke that is standard with fomors, Brilluen gets sent away in a light pillar that is very similar to the pet's desummon effect. Cichol even remarks on that fact she *turned* into a succubus implying that she was of a different race prior. Either way looks like Brill is gonna get a might big spanking from dear old mother.

    Yeah I also decided to re visit that scene since the crystal couldn't replay it had to find a video but anyways
    1MlNBym.jpg
    I remembered a bit wrong I was given the impression it was like a god like or ruler of all succubi matriarch but nope since he said "her mother before her"
  • NeroyNeroy
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    Leinei wrote: »
    Another thing I wonder about her is why is she suddenly able to have visions like that one in Saga 2?

    What she says:
    As the flow of time turns in on itself, angels will appear as the harbingers of the beginning. (Time shenanigans and Talvish/Girgashiy?)
    And when they are done, the three goddesses that have protected this world will lose their seats forever.
    Findia's fate does not end here
    All will disappear when those who sleep are awakened.

    Source Video (start at 32:30)


    Looks like we're just getting started. >=D

    All i can think is Nao(protector of milletians),Neamhain(Protector of Iria and TNN) and morrighan(previously protector of humankind) eventually die and then cichol "who can banish/kill almost anybody gets mad because his lifelong friend Morrighan dies and blames you for her death and goes crazy?

    If i can remember it was like
    Assisted Fomors to kill the partholonians
    then Assisted humans and milletians to kill Fomors
    and now milletians earned their favor to not be betrayed but now have gained the powers of a third tier god

    Cichol gets worried about the strength milletians obtain (and possibly foretold milletians becoming a possible third tier god) and attempts to kill you(player) off (He knows about the power of a divine and explains why Cichol or Morrighan couldn't interfere because the small chance of their death being possible). And the big negative change talked about in part 1 could be the possible cause of the death of the goddess? Idk it after what happened in G21 it feels like we are going to go back to god killing and this time nothing will be the same as we might have started the war of milletians and gods(seeing how when you get trapped in the crystal everyone you met throughout the generations blames you but to be fair the gods had a major role in all these decisions and the player might realize that and go bezerk as well) for becoming too powerful for the gods to handle. Nothing but epic stuff is going to happen in the story from here on out is my guess
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    @GTCvActium
    this is a long shot since im not sure if theres info on the game yet but
    during that scene where cichol was literally and metaphorically roasting the three prophets, he mentions a "Mother" when speaking to Brilluen, any ideas who would that be?
    Yeah I have almost no information on that. I jokingly started saying that Morrighan is her mother.
    Wouldn't it be the Succubus Queen?
    I mean, all the Succubus Fiends are like young succubus she's still watching over until they grow up, or something.

    Or heck, maybe there's some Fomor Queen I don't know about.
    One interesting to note is that while Penner and the Wizard get sent away in a poof of black smoke that is standard with fomors, Brilluen gets sent away in a light pillar that is very similar to the pet's desummon effect. Cichol even remarks on that fact she *turned* into a succubus implying that she was of a different race prior. Either way looks like Brill is gonna get a might big spanking from dear old mother.
    There was also the part where Avelin was talking about telling Brilluen to seek redemption, too.
    I wonder how Brilluen and Avelin knew each other before Brilluen killed her brother.
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    Iyasenu wrote: »
    There was also the part where Avelin was talking about telling Brilluen to seek redemption, too.
    I wonder how Brilluen and Avelin knew each other before Brilluen killed her brother.
    yeah I was wondering why Avelin was trying to show Brilluen mercy after everything.

  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Cichol himself has been killed a few times but he keeps coming back. Nuadha in the back story has also been killed by a dragon eating his arm and then flaming him to death only to be revived later.


    There's actually a philosophical issue I thought of when considering immortality; essentially, how does one test for that? Within a given fictional scenario, how does one differentiate between being nigh impossible to kill, and outright being impossible? I figured that ascertain a certainty, one needs another certainty, either with a thing known to induce death, or the usage of the maximum force and or power that is theoretically allotable in any given setting.

    Which blurs the lines, as you stated before Atom Cimeni may be killed, but how you deduce something can be killed if you haven't killed it?
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
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    edited July 13, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Cichol himself has been killed a few times but he keeps coming back. Nuadha in the back story has also been killed by a dragon eating his arm and then flaming him to death only to be revived later.


    There's actually a philosophical issue I thought of when considering immortality; essentially, how does one test for that? Within a given fictional scenario, how does one differentiate between being nigh impossible to kill, and outright being impossible? I figured that ascertain a certainty, one needs another certainty, either with a thing known to induce death, or the usage of the maximum force and or power that is theoretically allotable in any given setting.

    Which blurs the lines, as you stated before Atom Cimeni may be killed, but how you deduce something can be killed if you haven't killed it?

    Oh I was just stating that nothing in Erinn can possibly kill Aton and that to accomplish something like that will probably involve destroying the world. It's a speculation and a point of discussion. It actually alludes that with the kind of power Aton has, in that killing him is like trying to kill the world(universe if you prefer) and the impossibility of such an endeavor.

    The point comes from when after the battle with Nuadha, Morrighan tells you that Nuadha is completely unkillable in his current state because he absorbed a lot of power from Aton. Given that the Gods are known to have at the very least biological immortality. Speaking of immortality, the trope of immortality and its use in stories usually separate it into different styles and flavors. For simplicity we'll look at the 2 main ones, the first one is complete immortality, as in a complete immunity to death, the being's existence is absolute. The second is biological immortality, as in the being immune from natural causes of death such as aging and disease but are not immune from large traumas such as sufficient damage to their bodies or being such that they cannot be alive. Normally within fiction they usually stick to one kind of immortality so when they use the word, it explicitly refers to a certain mold characterized by that story. Mabinogi explicitly uses 2 types of immortality, the complete immortality, and the partial one. My description of the different tiers and are actual explanations of their powers from the Lore itself, and death, the act of killing of a God has been mentioned and used in multiple points in the story, namely with Nuadha and Cichol. Though they do come back either by some machinations or by a higher power.

    So yeah, you mistook my comment about being able to kill Aton, I used that particular comment to outline the impossibility of that goal being accomplished. It's like saying "You will become the new Buddha when you successfully divide by 0".

    Edit: Also to add to the point, that there is no need to test for it, because Morrighan specifically says that "He can no longer be killed", which confirms that the act of killing someone like Nuadha is possible in his prior state.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    edited July 13, 2018
    Ciri wrote: »
    I actually enjoyed how we delve into characters more tbh.
    The part when we get trapped and we see the "ghosts" of our pasts before Talvish pulled us out intrigued me with a bit of chills considering our character is a witness to their passing, something I haven't felt in an mmo's plot in awhile.
    The down side is how I hate the environment collision or the structure since I almost got stuck behind a ruin during a mission. I do wish too we can fly in the new zones, But I can understand if they won't give it.

    Thing I'm kinda 50/50 feeling about is the raid just because they are spread out but it does remind me of FFXIV's hunts and the lack of timer blows, but they might add it not too long from now.

    Total: 3/5. The fight during the story made my hair pull on certain occasions and I admit I'm a filthy casual barely into the late-game levels..I swear to god..it just felt kinda 'cheap' that made me wonder if I even stood a chance. In the end, I finished it but I just legit felt drained to enjoy the accomplishment.
    Raven in the Ruins seriously made me wanna wish to just cut off Hasadim's legs with his cheap dashes and high injury rate

    You wanna get that feeling from an MMO? Try Vindi. Characters you're bound to get attached to get murdered/erased from existence right in front of you.
    Neroy wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    Another thing I wonder about her is why is she suddenly able to have visions like that one in Saga 2?

    What she says:
    As the flow of time turns in on itself, angels will appear as the harbingers of the beginning. (Time shenanigans and Talvish/Girgashiy?)
    And when they are done, the three goddesses that have protected this world will lose their seats forever.
    Findia's fate does not end here
    All will disappear when those who sleep are awakened.

    Source Video (start at 32:30)


    Looks like we're just getting started. >=D

    All i can think is Nao(protector of milletians),Neamhain(Protector of Iria and TNN) and morrighan(previously protector of humankind) eventually die and then cichol "who can banish/kill almost anybody gets mad because his lifelong friend Morrighan dies and blames you for her death and goes crazy?

    If i can remember it was like
    Assisted Fomors to kill the partholonians
    then Assisted humans and milletians to kill Fomors
    and now milletians earned their favor to not be betrayed but now have gained the powers of a third tier god

    Cichol gets worried about the strength milletians obtain (and possibly foretold milletians becoming a possible third tier god) and attempts to kill you(player) off (He knows about the power of a divine and explains why Cichol or Morrighan couldn't interfere because the small chance of their death being possible). And the big negative change talked about in part 1 could be the possible cause of the death of the goddess? Idk it after what happened in G21 it feels like we are going to go back to god killing and this time nothing will be the same as we might have started the war of milletians and gods(seeing how when you get trapped in the crystal everyone you met throughout the generations blames you but to be fair the gods had a major role in all these decisions and the player might realize that and go bezerk as well) for becoming too powerful for the gods to handle. Nothing but epic stuff is going to happen in the story from here on out is my guess

    Dialogue from part 2 explains that while the knights were forced to reflect on past events, you somehow got put into an illusion where characters were forced to act negatively, trying to lower your morale. Then Talvish pulls you out and back to reality.

    Also, Cichol HATES Morrighan. His reasoning for not killing her before (and possibly why he had her sealed) was because he knew if she was killed, Aton Cimeni would just revive her.
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Cichol himself has been killed a few times but he keeps coming back. Nuadha in the back story has also been killed by a dragon eating his arm and then flaming him to death only to be revived later.


    There's actually a philosophical issue I thought of when considering immortality; essentially, how does one test for that? Within a given fictional scenario, how does one differentiate between being nigh impossible to kill, and outright being impossible? I figured that ascertain a certainty, one needs another certainty, either with a thing known to induce death, or the usage of the maximum force and or power that is theoretically allotable in any given setting.

    Which blurs the lines, as you stated before Atom Cimeni may be killed, but how you deduce something can be killed if you haven't killed it?

    Oh I was just stating that nothing in Erinn can possibly kill Aton and that to accomplish something like that will probably involve destroying the world. It's a speculation and a point of discussion. It actually alludes that with the kind of power Aton has, in that killing him is like trying to kill the world(universe if you prefer) and the impossibility of such an endeavor.

    The point comes from when after the battle with Nuadha, Morrighan tells you that Nuadha is completely unkillable in his current state because he absorbed a lot of power from Aton. Given that the Gods are known to have at the very least biological immortality. Speaking of immortality, the trope of immortality and its use in stories usually separate it into different styles and flavors. For simplicity we'll look at the 2 main ones, the first one is complete immortality, as in a complete immunity to death, the being's existence is absolute. The second is biological immortality, as in the being immune from natural causes of death such as aging and disease but are not immune from large traumas such as sufficient damage to their bodies or being such that they cannot be alive. Normally within fiction they usually stick to one kind of immortality so when they use the word, it explicitly refers to a certain mold characterized by that story. Mabinogi explicitly uses 2 types of immortality, the complete immortality, and the partial one. My description of the different tiers and are actual explanations of their powers from the Lore itself, and death, the act of killing of a God has been mentioned and used in multiple points in the story, namely with Nuadha and Cichol. Though they do come back either by some machinations or by a higher power.

    So yeah, you mistook my comment about being able to kill Aton, I used that particular comment to outline the impossibility of that goal being accomplished. It's like saying "You will become the new Buddha when you successfully divide by 0".

    Edit: Also to add to the point, that there is no need to test for it, because Morrighan specifically says that "He can no longer be killed", which confirms that the act of killing someone like Nuadha is possible in his prior state.

    A good example of "type 2 immortality" is in Dragon Ball.
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,015
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    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Neroy wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    Another thing I wonder about her is why is she suddenly able to have visions like that one in Saga 2?

    What she says:
    As the flow of time turns in on itself, angels will appear as the harbingers of the beginning. (Time shenanigans and Talvish/Girgashiy?)
    And when they are done, the three goddesses that have protected this world will lose their seats forever.
    Findia's fate does not end here
    All will disappear when those who sleep are awakened.

    Source Video (start at 32:30)


    Looks like we're just getting started. >=D

    All i can think is Nao(protector of milletians),Neamhain(Protector of Iria and TNN) and morrighan(previously protector of humankind) eventually die and then cichol "who can banish/kill almost anybody gets mad because his lifelong friend Morrighan dies and blames you for her death and goes crazy?

    If i can remember it was like
    Assisted Fomors to kill the partholonians
    then Assisted humans and milletians to kill Fomors
    and now milletians earned their favor to not be betrayed but now have gained the powers of a third tier god

    Cichol gets worried about the strength milletians obtain (and possibly foretold milletians becoming a possible third tier god) and attempts to kill you(player) off (He knows about the power of a divine and explains why Cichol or Morrighan couldn't interfere because the small chance of their death being possible). And the big negative change talked about in part 1 could be the possible cause of the death of the goddess? Idk it after what happened in G21 it feels like we are going to go back to god killing and this time nothing will be the same as we might have started the war of milletians and gods(seeing how when you get trapped in the crystal everyone you met throughout the generations blames you but to be fair the gods had a major role in all these decisions and the player might realize that and go bezerk as well) for becoming too powerful for the gods to handle. Nothing but epic stuff is going to happen in the story from here on out is my guess

    Well it could be the Badhbh Catha: Neamhain, Morrighan and Macha. Remember Macha is a blesser of fighters too, so War Goddess like Morrighan. XD

    I know Nao was sort of appointed by Morrighan, but I don't think she's one of the three goddesses mentioned.
    Neroy
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    Okay, I like what they did with Merlin and Talvish here, story wise. :D