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A little too much ptw ?

Comments

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,360
    Posts: 7,666
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    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    Gold grind is boring; if everything from here on out becomes the acquisition of gold dependent on the spending habits of other, that is both unstable and an especially monotonous game design.

    You are correct though, this armour is nothing special, not compared to accessories.

    The good and bad thing about a simple economy.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    I prefer to lambaste the game design, based on my views of what would make Mabinogi better than what it has become. Of course, this is to consider my expectations unrealistic, since I can experience much of any new content in a day or so. Those sort of updates take months. Even if they focused any amount of production they could to content, I wouldn't ever be satisfied, because goods one are time consuming relative to the time players can spend experiencing it.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
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    Spending 40 hours getting 20mil vs spending 100-300 dollars and still maybe not getting the item.
    I feel like this game is more fair than others.
    I mean they could have just made it so you cant trade them at all.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    edited July 28, 2018
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Spending 40 hours getting 20mil vs spending 100-300 dollars and still maybe not getting the item.
    I feel like this game is more fair than others.
    I mean they could have just made it so you cant trade them at all.

    The lesser of two evils is still by nature evil. I could kill just two people and claim I am more moral than Ted Bundy, but that is a completely inane argument to pose. Just because something isn't worse than, does not mean it translates to being "not bad" or "acceptable".

    In any case, my issue arises when people need to purchase the gachapon in order to produce said good, which seems like an unstable way to put out said goods, due to interest and rates of drop, as well as the mindset of those purchasing the gachapon.

    To which my aforementioned argument is lacking, but I do express discomfort of having to rely on others to put said goods on the market, for some reason. I will have to think of this rationale as to why I feel this way. Perhaps I don't like being wholly dependent on others.
    JazmynTwelieRadiant DawnLialinSherri
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
    Posts: 342
    Member
    im still looking for nexon to change their market strategies to the older efficient ways.
    when it was about trying to satisfied costumers for long term investments while using vip/monthly purchases.

    But they never update vip for it to be reliant.- so now instead of getting a proper amount of monthly payments they now focus on paying ppl to make 1 digital item they can mulitply (for free) and sell(without costing them revenue) in a way that only 10% of the ppl in the game will actually get it, while 90% of the rest STILL pay for it... but arent getting the item at all.
    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    Gold grind is boring; if everything from here on out becomes the acquisition of gold dependent on the spending habits of other, that is both unstable and an especially monotonous game design.

    You are correct though, this armour is nothing special, not compared to accessories.

    gold grind is boring.. but thats "playing the game" - working at a job and getting paid money to spend in the game... is also boring... i dont know a lot of ppl who are excited to go to work to make cash just as much as grinding gold in a game, which to the game standards is considered "playing"
    plus its considered a FREE MMO

    Plus whats even more boring then that is only having 1 option of purchase... which is gacha. -gachas are boring-
    a gacha is the equivalent of a afk event... we could have more options... but nexon likes to release these two things over n over again
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
    Posts: 342
    Member
    i also find it weird they changed their market strategy to really a extent that goldbots benifit SO MUCH.
    grinding gold to get items from ppl who purchased the gacha- no wonder gold bots have increased so much..

    probably be fewer bots if this game wasnt relying on the few who purchase gacha. Im sure a lot would change if they updated or relying on other payments. but i feel the ppl who really suffer is the pay-2-win. seeing how theirs so many "ppl" who sell things cheaply in belvest that help those that try to be good at the game.

    but why rely on buyers who benifit when you can rely on reforges and gachas - but thats just a game theory
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    im still looking for nexon to change their market strategies to the older efficient ways.
    when it was about trying to satisfied costumers for long term investments while using vip/monthly purchases.

    But they never update vip for it to be reliant.- so now instead of getting a proper amount of monthly payments they now focus on paying ppl to make 1 digital item they can mulitply (for free) and sell(without costing them revenue) in a way that only 10% of the ppl in the game will actually get it, while 90% of the rest STILL pay for it... but arent getting the item at all.
    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    Gold grind is boring; if everything from here on out becomes the acquisition of gold dependent on the spending habits of other, that is both unstable and an especially monotonous game design.

    You are correct though, this armour is nothing special, not compared to accessories.

    gold grind is boring.. but thats "playing the game" - working at a job and getting paid money to spend in the game... is also boring... i dont know a lot of ppl who are excited to go to work to make cash just as much as grinding gold in a game, which to the game standards is considered "playing"
    plus its considered a FREE MMO

    Plus whats even more boring then that is only having 1 option of purchase... which is gacha. -gachas are boring-
    a gacha is the equivalent of a afk event... we could have more options... but nexon likes to release these two things over n over again

    Hint: Game Design is the crux of my problem. A free MMO is something I believe can be subjected to criticisms on its gameplay, even with the presence of a webshop.

    I do admit, I play a great deal, and I am likely reaching the end of my player lifespan. Life is going on, and my adulthood beckons more of my time here on Earth. :(
    TheDumbOne
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,515
    Posts: 2,614
    Member
    edited July 28, 2018
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Avenger/Fierce/Allegro/Haunted/Spooky/Eerie accessories, 67th/38th/Meteoroid weapon enchants, Transformation/Dorcha/Deathmark/Elf Smash/Movement speed/Attack Delay/&more set effects, ROBE SLOT ENCHANTS.

    All these things are gacha only things that should have never been that way. Special Eiren should be a craftable item, why should we alienate people who want a death mark boost, something that has become the part of some meta damage comps. Why should we tolerate enchanted accessories that are TRIPLE the power of what you can farm in game. Why should the best in slot enchants for 1h,2h, and piercing weapons come from a non in game source. Why should we be locking all these set effects behind a pay wall. It's not about farming in game money an buying LIMITED TIME items, it's about playing the game to progress in the game. Here we are talking about this armor, which to be fair is probably one of the least egregious items I listed in the initial line, but it's not JUST about the armor, it's about the principle of now having power in gachapons.

    As for those who say that this game isn't PvP so it can't be P2W, sure you can't directly win against someone like you can in the likes of WoW, Eve, Albion Online ect., but you can increase your gold making, dungeon clear times, shadow missions clear times, and top the contribution charts for raids much easier. Just because we don't have PvP doesn't mean we don't have the means to be competitive in a mainly PvE game.

    Gachapons are done best when it's appearance scrolls, fancy wings, tails, ears that wiggle, new animations, transformation medals, and outfit that scream Fa-Bu-LOUS. These wont effect game play and still generate revenue. Of course, nexon has learned that those of us who could care less about the newest wing will drop $1000 trying to get a max roll icarus.

    Big Edit : I forgot how the best 2nd titles in game are all gacha.

    As much as I hate when they put clothings in gacha, I would take that any day compared to these enchants, OP armors and 2nd titles..
    It's the fact that all of it is behind a paywall that makes me so livid. (the op armor) like theres no way to craft them.
    I'd like a way to craft them in game PLEASE NEXON. idc if it takes centuries but PLEEEASE. ;-;
    Not to mention all the people who think there are no competition in a PvE game.. oh lord.. -_- never been to a raid before or something? example; Some people are always gonna do more damage than you + raid boss limited health = low contribution points for you, more for the omega whales/rich fellas/lucky leprechauns

    and before you say im only complaining because im poor, i am 11m/??m for getting me some Languhiris Chaser Armor (F) so ..there. >:L
    (is it like 50m in mari? i rlly dont know tbh)
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Avenger/Fierce/Allegro/Haunted/Spooky/Eerie accessories, 67th/38th/Meteoroid weapon enchants, Transformation/Dorcha/Deathmark/Elf Smash/Movement speed/Attack Delay/&more set effects, ROBE SLOT ENCHANTS.

    All these things are gacha only things that should have never been that way. Special Eiren should be a craftable item, why should we alienate people who want a death mark boost, something that has become the part of some meta damage comps. Why should we tolerate enchanted accessories that are TRIPLE the power of what you can farm in game. Why should the best in slot enchants for 1h,2h, and piercing weapons come from a non in game source. Why should we be locking all these set effects behind a pay wall. It's not about farming in game money an buying LIMITED TIME items, it's about playing the game to progress in the game. Here we are talking about this armor, which to be fair is probably one of the least egregious items I listed in the initial line, but it's not JUST about the armor, it's about the principle of now having power in gachapons.

    As for those who say that this game isn't PvP so it can't be P2W, sure you can't directly win against someone like you can in the likes of WoW, Eve, Albion Online ect., but you can increase your gold making, dungeon clear times, shadow missions clear times, and top the contribution charts for raids much easier. Just because we don't have PvP doesn't mean we don't have the means to be competitive in a mainly PvE game.

    Gachapons are done best when it's appearance scrolls, fancy wings, tails, ears that wiggle, new animations, transformation medals, and outfit that scream Fa-Bu-LOUS. These wont effect game play and still generate revenue. Of course, nexon has learned that those of us who could care less about the newest wing will drop $1000 trying to get a max roll icarus.

    Big Edit : I forgot how the best 2nd titles in game are all gacha.

    As much as I hate when they put clothings in gacha, I would take that any day compared to these enchants, OP armors and 2nd titles..
    It's the fact that all of it is behind a paywall that makes me so livid. (the op armor) like theres no way to craft them.
    I'd like a way to craft them in game PLEASE NEXON. idc if it takes centuries but PLEEEASE. ;-;
    Not to mention all the people who think there are no competition in a PvE game.. oh lord.. -_- never been to a raid before or something? example; Some people are always gonna do more damage than you + raid boss limited health = low contribution points for you, more for the omega whales/rich fellas/lucky leprechauns

    and before you say im only complaining because im poor, i am 11m/??m for getting me some Languhiris Chaser Armor (F) so ..there. >:L
    (is it like 50m in mari? i rlly dont know tbh)

    Someone selling their langu for 20m on alexina smh.

    Langu is way better than that armor even at low rolls it's like what? 2 or 4 prot lower? Once we get g22 prot/def on armor is going to mean pretty much nothing.
    BlissfulkillSherriImaizumi
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,665
    Posts: 57
    Member
    I hate the argument 'it's the principal of the matter', but it's the principal of the matter. Sure, this armor isn't game breaking, and maybe you can argue that some hard to acquire high tier raid armor might outperform it or some new update that we will eventually get at some undetermined point in the future might reduce it's relevancy, but that's not really the point. The point is that this armor is better than the vast majority of comparable equipment in the game and is a limited time cash shop exclusive, and if we don't voice outrage now then it sets a precedent. It tells Nexon that we are ok with power being a gacha item, and that will only embolden them. The people with the most voice in this matter (those buying tons of these gacha to get the prize items) are also the ones who benefit from this, so voting with wallets does nothing. Only outrage from the player base in a public forum can act as a deterrent at this point, before something much more audacious is put in their next gacha.
    SherriTheDumbOne
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 50,035
    Posts: 7,625
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    We've been screaming that same reasoning for YEARS and YEARS Apollodorus, it hasn't stopped them yet.
  • deepdrakedeepdrake
    Mabinogi Rep: 330
    Posts: 5
    Member
    edited July 28, 2018
    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    The stats as in defense and protection are not what worry me its the effects like attack speed delay and enchant being put into gach. The main reason I made lang armor was for attack speed. Also that sounds nice I just hope its rewards/drops stay in dungeon and nothing equivalent will be thrown into a cash-shop.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    deepdrake wrote: »
    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    The stats as in defense and protection are not what worry me its the effects like attack speed delay and enchant being put into gach. The main reason I made lang armor was for attack speed. Also that sounds nice I just hope its rewards/drops stay in dungeon and nothing equivalent will be thrown into a cash-shop.

    The things she's talking about are skills (kinda...) that come with g22, you rank with ap and you train them by doing certain things. Note that they're not easy to get though, iirc one of them requires soloing alban hard, along with other things just to unlock it.
  • deepdrakedeepdrake
    Mabinogi Rep: 330
    Posts: 5
    Member
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    The stats as in defense and protection are not what worry me its the effects like attack speed delay and enchant being put into gach. The main reason I made lang armor was for attack speed. Also that sounds nice I just hope its rewards/drops stay in dungeon and nothing equivalent will be thrown into a cash-shop.

    The things she's talking about are skills (kinda...) that come with g22, you rank with ap and you train them by doing certain things. Note that they're not easy to get though, iirc one of them requires soloing alban hard, along with other things just to unlock it.

    we got dogma books in gach so people don't have to do grig raids to get subskills so that means little to nothing if anything. Where there is nickel they will dime!
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    deepdrake wrote: »
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    Policroma wrote: »
    deepdrake wrote: »
    I think Astoram perfectly summed up what I wanted to say. Which is if you keep shoving stronger and stronger gear in gachapon whats the point in running dungeons and going through the hassle of enchanting when you have easy access to per-enchanted rank 1 reforged gear with stats on pair with that of some of the hardest armor to make and one of a kind set effects. I think you guys miss the point of it not being the best potential armor but it being good enough make most thing are obsolete. The power creep will just keep on going till they will start handout better and better gear items in gachapons and adding less and less content in-game that will be worth doing.

    Problem is, most people who get that in gacha aren't going to keep it, but resell it. And the kind of people who need to buy something like that with gold usually have to *gasp* play the game to get it.

    As far as power creep goes, if you're that worried, why are we wasting time with a couple extra prot? There's an update coming that gives a large number of swappable skills, and a great deal of extra prot is one of them, along with a pierce buff, heavy stander, an auto rez, a skill that lets you reset cooldown on something over and over again, a double attack proc, YET ANOTHER AIMING SPEED BUFF, etc.

    The stats as in defense and protection are not what worry me its the effects like attack speed delay and enchant being put into gach. The main reason I made lang armor was for attack speed. Also that sounds nice I just hope its rewards/drops stay in dungeon and nothing equivalent will be thrown into a cash-shop.

    The things she's talking about are skills (kinda...) that come with g22, you rank with ap and you train them by doing certain things. Note that they're not easy to get though, iirc one of them requires soloing alban hard, along with other things just to unlock it.

    we got dogma books in gach so people don't have to do grig raids to get subskills so that means little to nothing if anything. Where there is nickel they will dime!

    Okay but there's not a single subskill that's actually hard to unlock, and it also doesn't train them for you either. TBH the only one that's "hard" to unlock is the one for shield which requires 4 all clear weeklies. It's not even hard either just time gated.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
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    I still maintain that the gacha should not pump out gear like this. First of all, people are saying that the stats are still less than a max roll Slayer armor, but here's the thing, it also has 5% more melee auto defend than the slayer (putting it with the RKA) AND it comes with a fully +10 speed status effect. You also get ANOTHER +10 status effect on attack delay for the head gear which also has top tier stats. This isn't up for debate, the armor is objectively superior to its in-game counterparts given that it has comparable stats to what is obtainable in-game, has the best auto defend rates, AND comes with status effects. Then you can also take into account that the armor is basically upgraded for you and has R1 already in its reforge. Then there's the price tag on it which makes it easier to get than its in-game counterparts, for the amount of effort and time spent on obtaining an in-game equivalent is already crazy, even more time and effort is needed to merely RAISE that counterpart to this armor's preset level. So yes, this is very much p2w. I wouldn't have much of an issue with this if the armor had basic armor stats. If armor is put into a gacha, it should not be super powerful compared to in-game counterparts, at best it should be a reskinned pre-existing armor so that the choice to use this is a stylistic choice rather than a functional one.
    ShouKSherri
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
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    GTCvActium wrote: »
    I still maintain that the gacha should not pump out gear like this. First of all, people are saying that the stats are still less than a max roll Slayer armor, but here's the thing, it also has 5% more melee auto defend than the slayer (putting it with the RKA) AND it comes with a fully +10 speed status effect. You also get ANOTHER +10 status effect on attack delay for the head gear which also has top tier stats. This isn't up for debate, the armor is objectively superior to its in-game counterparts given that it has comparable stats to what is obtainable in-game, has the best auto defend rates, AND comes with status effects. Then you can also take into account that the armor is basically upgraded for you and has R1 already in its reforge. Then there's the price tag on it which makes it easier to get than its in-game counterparts, for the amount of effort and time spent on obtaining an in-game equivalent is already crazy, even more time and effort is needed to merely RAISE that counterpart to this armor's preset level. So yes, this is very much p2w. I wouldn't have much of an issue with this if the armor had basic armor stats. If armor is put into a gacha, it should not be super powerful compared to in-game counterparts, at best it should be a reskinned pre-existing armor so that the choice to use this is a stylistic choice rather than a functional one.

    I beleive mabinogi SHOULD ALWAYS make the line between "FREE" mmo and purchases.
    I think so far nexon done a great job making sure nothing pay excess. You dont need to purchase anything to excess content/skills/playing the game.

    i dont agree, even if the armor is op and un-accessible by other armors in the game, becuase of what i said above^
    gacha/purchases should never pump out anything that exclusive excess or skill excess or trade lock in a way that doesnt deem a "free mmo" becuase you need to pay to unlock content of some sort.

    Nexon has done stuff like that... like untradable gacha puppet skins, which was the only way to obtain the item at the time, but later made it tradable.

    What does need to get fixed is the lack of urgency and concern of the player base. it stinks if the amount currently of paying users is the equivalent to implementing re-used afk event.
    Even purchasing stuff in the game is stressful. only having the one option of gambling limited time payments were 50$+ gets you no decent items... and when that happens they dont have free content to please them after making a bad gamble purchase.

    give that market strategy a few rounds and you get quitting sales.
    and nexon resolution is "pay to win".
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
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    Too many kids screaming pay2win when they don't get what they want out of a gacha...

    Here's something that's gonna blow your minds...gacha is normal and healthy for a free to play MMO. Remove the stigma that selfish and/or stupid ppl give it, and what you have is a means for anyone new or veteran to have an equal chance at something rare. A "good" MMO gives the veterans and the diligent the ability to grind gold out to trade for said items, creating commerce(no not that kind) between players and forming a steady market based loosely on supply and demand. Gacha is the tried and true method of achieving this while at the same time funding the Free to Play model that so many MMOs operate on.

    Now there are exceptions...when something for example is so obscenely OP or trade locked that it just power creeps the meta, thats an issue. Now this armor set looks power creep, but honestly you'd be better suited(get it) investing in a Langu or Bhafel than going for this set for what...3 defense? That's where gacha gets battlenogis, the thirst to have the maximum possible stats is what drives ppl to spend $400 on this gacha, or pay 60-80million for Altam title when the other knights are 3-8mil with only 8 less max attack. And that's okay! Being the best is a good goal, and Mabinogi doesn't trade lock the armor sets so you "can" get it with in game gold. It's less than 20mil on Alexina right now.

    What a lot of people are asking for is no gacha not because gacha rewards the rich, but because gacha rewards the hard working. Most people here complaining could've gotten the 20mil in less than a week if they played the game and invested the time and effort into grinding, which is a much better timeframe than some Korean MMOs give. Instead they've been playing a different game and now come back to a shiny new thing while they have no gold, no items to sell, and no motivation to work. Which means...hope you got some cash : )
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    edited July 30, 2018
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Too many kids screaming pay2win when they don't get what they want out of a gacha...

    Here's something that's gonna blow your minds...gacha is normal and healthy for a free to play MMO. Remove the stigma that selfish and/or stupid ppl give it, and what you have is a means for anyone new or veteran to have an equal chance at something rare. A "good" MMO gives the veterans and the diligent the ability to grind gold out to trade for said items, creating commerce(no not that kind) between players and forming a steady market based loosely on supply and demand. Gacha is the tried and true method of achieving this while at the same time funding the Free to Play model that so many MMOs operate on.

    Now there are exceptions...when something for example is so obscenely OP or trade locked that it just power creeps the meta, thats an issue. Now this armor set looks power creep, but honestly you'd be better suited(get it) investing in a Langu or Bhafel than going for this set for what...3 defense? That's where gacha gets battlenogis, the thirst to have the maximum possible stats is what drives ppl to spend $400 on this gacha, or pay 60-80million for Altam title when the other knights are 3-8mil with only 8 less max attack. And that's okay! Being the best is a good goal, and Mabinogi doesn't trade lock the armor sets so you "can" get it with in game gold. It's less than 20mil on Alexina right now.

    What a lot of people are asking for is no gacha not because gacha rewards the rich, but because gacha rewards the hard working. Most people here complaining could've gotten the 20mil in less than a week if they played the game and invested the time and effort into grinding, which is a much better timeframe than some Korean MMOs give. Instead they've been playing a different game and now come back to a shiny new thing while they have no gold, no items to sell, and no motivation to work. Which means...hope you got some cash : )

    20 Million Armor for something who ingame craftable counterparts run easily in 80+ million gold? Maybe GTCvActium has a point, actually. I don't think we should be making content so outclassed in this manner. The Armour itself has a 1% movement speed, but the horns possess an attack delay decrease effect.

    Though my main issue regarding your post is that your characterization of your opposition is incorrect and lazy; it would be best to avoid painting everyone concerned with the same brush of "People who did not draw what they wanted out of the gachapon". It isn't fair to dismiss everyone, because some people have differing rationales for the same conclusion, be it driven by selfishness or genuine concern.

    Langhurises aren't that cheap, yet are subjected to even higher rates of RNG.
    TwelieSherri
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    Too many kids screaming pay2win when they don't get what they want out of a gacha...

    Here's something that's gonna blow your minds...gacha is normal and healthy for a free to play MMO. Remove the stigma that selfish and/or stupid ppl give it, and what you have is a means for anyone new or veteran to have an equal chance at something rare. A "good" MMO gives the veterans and the diligent the ability to grind gold out to trade for said items, creating commerce(no not that kind) between players and forming a steady market based loosely on supply and demand. Gacha is the tried and true method of achieving this while at the same time funding the Free to Play model that so many MMOs operate on.

    Now there are exceptions...when something for example is so obscenely OP or trade locked that it just power creeps the meta, thats an issue. Now this armor set looks power creep, but honestly you'd be better suited(get it) investing in a Langu or Bhafel than going for this set for what...3 defense? That's where gacha gets battlenogis, the thirst to have the maximum possible stats is what drives ppl to spend $400 on this gacha, or pay 60-80million for Altam title when the other knights are 3-8mil with only 8 less max attack. And that's okay! Being the best is a good goal, and Mabinogi doesn't trade lock the armor sets so you "can" get it with in game gold. It's less than 20mil on Alexina right now.

    What a lot of people are asking for is no gacha not because gacha rewards the rich, but because gacha rewards the hard working. Most people here complaining could've gotten the 20mil in less than a week if they played the game and invested the time and effort into grinding, which is a much better timeframe than some Korean MMOs give. Instead they've been playing a different game and now come back to a shiny new thing while they have no gold, no items to sell, and no motivation to work. Which means...hope you got some cash : )

    20 Million Armor for something who ingame craftable counterparts run easily in 80+ million gold? Maybe GTCvActium has a point, actually. I don't think we should be making content so outclassed in this manner. The Armour itself has a 1% movement speed, but the horns possess an attack delay decrease effect.

    Though my main issue regarding your post is that your characterization of your opposition is incorrect and lazy; it would be best to avoid painting everyone concerned with the same brush of "People who did not draw what they wanted out of the gachapon". It isn't fair to dismiss everyone, because some people have differing rationales for the same conclusion, be it driven by selfishness or genuine concern.

    Langhurises aren't that cheap, yet are subjected to even higher rates of RNG.

    This is actually my point, I never said that gachas were bad, just that putting items that are inherently stronger than in-game items are. As I've said before, at best they should've had this be a reskinned RKA armor so that the choice of obtaining this is a stylistic choice rather than being motivated by "It's as good or better than something I'll probably need to spend months building/upgrading". I've even said that a good point in the past was that heavy armors that came out of the gacha used either use base heavy armor stats (6/2), or were a reskin of an armor set already in-game.