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[UPDATE] Server Merge FAQ 2

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  • HelsaHelsa
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    edited May 31
    Eralea wrote: »
    What kind of system-generated number is that? A four-digit number like the kind used by Discord/Nexon tags? Would it be visible to other players? (I know some people would be angry if they had to have a number tag in-game too)

    How would this work for players interacting with players? If there are 2000 Kitsunes on the server, how do I mail a specific Kitsune a stack of dead bees? I'd definitely have to know their ID number to type the correct recipient into the mailbox, which means if I have multiple friends with the same name I'd have to remember people's numbers to differentiate them, which... personally, I can't do, tbh. I'm terrible at remembering numbers.
    &
    Maia wrote: »
    Most games have randomized numbers or your original name+numbers to identify ID's kind of like Helsa suggested. While I absolutely agree with this suggestion, as it's pretty much a SOP at this point in the gaming industry there are still some problems with it which might be hard to overcome. For instance, it would require developers which were familiar enough with the database to make this change- which means probably KR involvement, which is hard to get. Otherwise NA devs could end up botching it and making it worse. Additionally, with identical in-game names but different ID's it would be difficult to distinguish who we are mailing items to or sending notes to. There also comes the issue of 'player reputation' which can be trolled by people using the same name as someone else. I can't see identical names becoming a thing in Mabinogi unfortunately.

    Trying to avoid the double post here. :)

    - the number would be as many digits as it needs to be; a long int should do it in spades.

    - how to identify the number?
    -- If you can see the avatar, then right clicking on them could bring it up in a context menu.
    -- The character them self would have the number in their data page.
    -- If they are in your friends or guild list, it doesn't matter because at this point it can be a hidden field. But if there is more than one, then right clicking on their name can bring up their context menu. If you somehow manage to have 250 Kitsune's in your list, each of which that you correspond with regularly, then at that point you would have to remember. Think of their ID number as an analogue to a phone number.
    -- If they are noting out to the population they would include their name and ID number, again like saying say "for a good time call Pat 123-456-7890".
    -- Now if you want to "cold call" them and you don't know anyone who knows their ID number then in THIS case, I think you're SOL. When you think about it, this is the case even now. If you don't know someone's name how can you contact them out of the blue?
    -- If you're doing the Tara Bank Part Time Job it can include their ID number.

    - This would require further development of the code, and that will be difficult? Absolutely it would require new code, and that would have challenges to it. But when you think about it, that's really Nexon's problem right? Setting this up, would allow this to be used by all installations throughout the world, so it would be best made at the source The trolling scenario is a possibility but that can be dispelled quickly by comparing ID numbers; "If their ID is bla bla bla or is not bla bla bla, it ain't me."

    I'd welcome any more concerns that folks can think of, because if together we can solve the issues here, it makes it easier for Nexon; assuming they read these of course. :P

    EDIT just had a quick idea. If you have many Kitsune's in your friends list, maybe they can implement a nick-name feature. Nick-names that you invent for them and only know to you, similar to the pet note mechanic. So, if I was in your list you could call me "Donkey Aperture" or something similar!
  • YuuzuruYuuzuru
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    edited May 31
    It would've been cleaner to add an 'origin-server' field and tag everyone with this number depending on server.
    Numbers are consistent between users of the same pre-merge server.

    For example:
    0 - Alexina
    1 - Mari
    2 - Ruairi
    3 - Tarlach

    Next, continue the merge with names intact.

    Then, develop some code to read these array elements in-game, give an icon similar to the chicken egg to characters that would have been renamed.

    Worse case scenario, they create more in-game spaghetti code, but hey.. everyone's merged correctly.

    Edit:

    This would mean only a limited amount of copies of currently existing names will exist ranging from 1 to 4 max.
    (Eg. The name "Joe" probably exists as a name in all servers, while something obscure won't be as popular)

    This would be a minor side-effect from the merge, this is why the "Server icon" solution works to differentiate.

    There's probably a scenario I'm not considering when I theory-crafted this.
    Danievictria
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Yuuzuru wrote: »
    Instead of all this 'Unique ID per user' mess, it would've been cleaner to add an 'origin-server' field and tag everyone with this number depending on server.

    0 - Alexina
    1 - Mari
    2 - Ruairi
    3 - Tarlach

    Merge with names intact.

    Then, develop some code to read these array elements in-game, give an icon similar to the newbie chicken egg icons to the characters that would have been renamed.

    Worse case scenario, they create more in-game spaghetti code, but hey.. everyone's merged correctly.

    Edit:

    This would mean only a limited amount of copies of currently existing names will exist ranging from 1 to 4 max.
    (Eg. The name "Joe" probably exists as a name in all servers, while something obscure won't be as popular)

    This would be a minor side-effect from the merge, this is why the "Server icon" solution works to differentiate.

    That would work, in fact a while back I was suggesting this very thing. But here you'd only get four Kitsunes after that four kittsunes and four kitsunays, etc. The non-Kitsune Kitsunes would probably prefer more than four copies so they can be Kitsune too. So then one might say, okay what about having a last name field; then you could have more than four. But this brings back the problem, you can only have one <Tony> with <Stark>, one <Toni> with <Stark> , one <Tony) with <Starck> and so on; it's the same problem all over again. The ID field idea is basically the same as this but it takes away the users choice on how to fill this field, so that there is no early bird issues.

    If you want to be <THX> with <1138> well then sucks to be you. <--- That was a joke. :)

    As a short term solution though, they could implement this by going to a permanent full server merge. Then the server of residence field becomes redundant, since the combined server identification can be hard coded. In order to prevent name swiping problems wrecking everything as a result of a two-step full merge, they can add an extra check in the rename/new character process. Say you want to be Kitsune, it would check if there is a Kitsune+Mari and so. If so that choice is rejected. Post full merge then Kitusune+Mari (AS LONG AS THEY HAVE NOT CHANGED THEIR NAME) their server field can be turned back into Mari and their name back to Kitsune. That would deal with the issue until they should choose to implement unlimited names copies.
  • MaiaMaia
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    I don't think people want to have to bother with long friend codes like on Nintendo or something. Which is essentially what's being suggested by Helsa (unless I'm misunderstanding).

    Yuuzuru's suggestion is basically a fragment of Helsa's, it doesn't really cover how you would go about contacting individuals with the same name. Do I type Joe0 to note Joe from Alexina? In either case, adding numbers to the end of names could be a shorter solution but could get confusing for people with a bunch of numbers in their name. I guess it's possible they could just add a new drop-down field which has "Alexina, Mari, Ruairi, Tarlach, and Nao" listed on it and enable duplicate names with 0,1,2,3, or 4 added on the end for an ID reference. I would think Nao would need to be included for new characters made fresh on the server. Though there are still problems with this: If I use a bugle or party ad and advertise to 'mail me dead bees for 1m each,' how do they know which of the maia's to mail to? Is my number or icon slapped into the actual text field? Am I Maia2? If so then it goes back to the annoyance for people with lots of numbers in their name.

    Honestly, most solutions are going to have some sort of flaw. The biggest of which is that it's too much work for Nexon. They should've just gone with "first to login gets to keep the name" which is used overseas. Even with name change coupons, it's "who can submit the request first." Even if you reserve the names, active people will fight over the name and people will whine. After the reservation time limit is up, people will then take all kinds of good names very quickly and people will whine again. Rip the band aid off and do it all on day 1. 99% of us don't want or need +server on our names and it's totally avoidable. Not to mention that with the "first login" concept, you likely decrease the amount of name change tickets by at least half.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    edited May 31
    Maia wrote: »
    I don't think people want to have to bother with long friend codes like on Nintendo or something. Which is essentially what's being suggested by Helsa (unless I'm misunderstanding).

    Remember the ID code doesn't have to be constantly displayed; it can be shown only when requested, so there wouldn't be issues with aesthetics.
    Maia wrote: »
    Yuuzuru's suggestion is basically a fragment of Helsa's, it doesn't really cover how you would go about contacting individuals with the same name.

    His suggestion would work precisely as it does right now, pre-merge. Right now you put in the name in the name field and there is a drop-down with server names. This is how you can friend folks on the other servers right now.
    Maia wrote: »
    I would think Nao would need to be included for new characters made fresh on the server.

    Yes that is true. I hadn't thought of that but it doesn't matter. Since the server field would be redundant for a permanent full merge. It would still work as described.
    Maia wrote: »
    Though there are still problems with this: If I use a bugle or party ad and advertise to 'mail me dead bees for 1m each,' how do they know which of the maia's to mail to?

    In their note they would include their ID number, like a phone number. Your ID number would be shown in your character data window should you need to look it up.
    Maia wrote: »
    It's too much work for Nexon.

    It might be, but it also might not. They're on the inside and it will be a business decision. If they use my suggestion above about how to stop name theft, then that will go a long way to processing the issue, and the ache in my corns is telling me that's exactly what they're gonna do.
  • MaiaMaia
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    If we could select peoples names out of the chat windows and pull up their user profile with their ID's that would be one thing (other games have a mechanic like this). However asking people to include their 8 digit (or whatever) ID is probably too much and specifically what I find super annoying about the Nintendo friend system. We have limited characters we can use in things like notes, bugles, and chat. I don't want to waste precious chat-space with a bunch of identifying digits when I could advertise other useless things I'm buying or selling or whatever. Furthermore, having long numerical ID's would end up with people typoing and needing to re-explain their ID which may not be possible with things like bugle's.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    This is turning into a great discussion! :) The more problems we can solve the better!
    Maia wrote: »
    If we could select peoples names out of the chat windows and pull up their user profile with their ID's that would be one thing (other games have a mechanic like this).

    That's a great idea, I hadn't thought of it in quite this detail. You would have to limit the info shown for privacy issues. The main things needed would be the name, an image of the character, and their ID number. The image of them maybe could be pulled from the image of them on their soul stream screen.
    Maia wrote: »
    However asking people to include their 8 digit (or whatever) ID is probably too much and specifically what I find super annoying about the Nintendo friend system.

    It would be like real life where you give someone your name and phone number or email or discord etc.
    Maia wrote: »
    We have limited characters we can use in things like notes, bugles, and chat. I don't want to waste precious chat-space with a bunch of identifying digits when I could advertise other useless things I'm buying or selling or whatever. Furthermore, having long numerical ID's would end up with people typoing and needing to re-explain their ID which may not be possible with things like bugle's.

    Either the ID number could be automatically appended to the from field, or the ID number could be a hidden field read by hovering the cursor over the name to auto-display the ID number, this would free up more room in the text field.

    Keep the concerns coming. The more that we can think about, and work on together, the better, I think.
  • YuuzuruYuuzuru
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    edited May 31
    Helsa wrote: »
    Maia wrote: »
    Yuuzuru's suggestion is basically a fragment of Helsa's, it doesn't really cover how you would go about contacting individuals with the same name.

    His suggestion would work precisely as it does right now, pre-merge. Right now you put in the name in the name field and there is a drop-down with server names. This is how you can friend folks on the other servers right now.
    Correct.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Maia wrote: »
    I would think Nao would need to be included for new characters made fresh on the server.

    Yes that is true. I hadn't thought of that but it doesn't matter. Since the server field would be redundant for a permanent full merge. It would still work as described.

    The field exists still, just have the value be empty, which would mean "Local to the current server"
    So, even if Alexina merges down the line, there shouldn't be an issue.
    Maia wrote: »
    Though there are still problems with this: If I use a bugle or party ad and advertise to 'mail me dead bees for 1m each,' how do they know which of the maia's to mail to?

    They would have to step up their game, then.
    There have been games where you could see little emojis in chat or on mouseOver.

    Coding something to display a tiny server mascot emoji behind your name for this special edge case.

    Something like this, using your example.
    The smiley is to show where the icon would be:
    <PARTY> : [Wanted] :) Maia: [B>Dead/Bees] - 1m ea mail
    
    Same goes for bugles and normal chat.

    There might be icon envy for those people.
    Oof, the things you have to do to avoid being renamed.
  • SaiSai
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    edited May 31
    I hope they will give service or something so people can readd others who name change into guilds again that are expired at the moment.
  • MaiaMaia
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    edited May 31
    I feel for all those people who are in nostalgic guilds with inactive leadership or married to someone who doesn't play anymore. Name or nostalgia, the choice is yours.

    large.jpg
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
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    Honestly, with the off-brand/fantasy-salad names my characters have, I'm sure there's not much chance all of them will get a "+Server" add-on. Though, if any of them do, I'll probably either leave them as-is or just use the name change to add a space or hyphen or something between the character and server name to avoid drama. I'm not a particularly well-known player with lots of connections, so I'm not worried about anyone name-sniping or name-trolling me.

    As for the other things, the only thing I was worried about was my wardrobe, but since all of my characters are on the same server it turns out there's no need to fret about that either. The merge is still going to be a pain for people whose names and characters are heavily involved in a lot of social circles and special systems, though...Especially those with characters on multiple servers and ESPECIALLY with characters on multiple servers with duplicate names. For once, I guess there's an advantage to being a relatively quiet solo dungeon crawler in an MMORPG...
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Maia wrote: »
    I feel for all those people who are in nostalgic guilds with inactive leadership or married to someone who doesn't play anymore. Name or nostalgia, the choice is yours.

    large.jpg

    There's no choice really. But there are folks that have an emotional attachment, of sorts, to their "old" server. I have a friend on Ruari, that was not against a merge yet they are feeling a bit of nostalgic melancholy over the fact that, come Monday, Ruari will only live on in memory. Like Doc said in The Land Before Time VI: The Secret of Saurus Rock; "Change what you can, except what you can't".

    I started playing Mabinogi at the tail-end of G6, I can recall the excitement of using L-Rods to make bridges to Couracle, and exploring it, and the new flying pets that let you see the world from a new perspective. Anyway, before that, for a few months, I had been watching my brother play the game, but a spectator doesn't have the same familiarity. So, forgive my ignorance of what happened before that. My understanding is that originally, during beta, there was a server called Nao. When the game was released in North America, Nao was renamed Mari, and two new servers call Tarlach and Ruari were added. This would explain why Mari is the larger of the three, it had a head start. My question is when they first created Tarlach and Ruari did they have the "new" tag assigned to them like Alexina did?
    Wolfsinger
  • MaiaMaia
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    edited June 1
    Mari, Tarlach, and Ruairi were fresh-slate servers. No character data was imported or anything. Yes the beta was called Nao but that server didn't "become Mari" in the sense that everyone who played the beta joined that server. All three servers were essentially new so no server had a special tag. Also understand that pretty much no one knew that Mari=Nao, so there was no connection. Originally the population was probably pretty even among the servers but Mari has a cuter, shorter name and Tarlach is more obscure, longer, and less appealing. It could've been as simple as that. I picked Ruairi because it started with an R which was the same as my irl nickname at the time lol completely random reason but that's how I ended up where I am. I knew very little about the actual characters even though I played closed beta.

    I'll miss the server I play on, Ruairi, in the sense that it's been the server I've affiliated myself with since I was a teenager. It's another part of my world that has changed for better or worse. It's not like the game is gone though. I've switched to playing a giant for the past 6 months so I don't even play my 10+ year old human which was a lot more challenging than getting used to a new (almost identical) server.
  • HarukariHarukari
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    Maia wrote: »
    Mari, Tarlach, and Ruairi were fresh-slate servers. No character data was imported or anything. Yes the beta was called Nao but that server didn't "become Mari" in the sense that everyone who played the beta joined that server. All three servers were essentially new so no server had a special tag. Also understand that pretty much no one knew that Mari=Nao, so there was no connection. Originally the population was probably pretty even among the servers but Mari has a cuter, shorter name and Tarlach is more obscure, longer, and less appealing. It could've been as simple as that. I picked Ruairi because it started with an R which was the same as my irl nickname at the time lol completely random reason but that's how I ended up where I am. I knew very little about the actual characters even though I played closed beta.

    I'll miss the server I play on, Ruairi, in the sense that it's been the server I've affiliated myself with since I was a teenager. It's another part of my world that has changed for better or worse. It's not like the game is gone though. I've switched to playing a giant for the past 6 months so I don't even play my 10+ year old human which was a lot more challenging than getting used to a new (almost identical) server.

    Meanwhile I left Tarlach for Ruairi. I guess technically, I'm going back.
    I guess switching servers wasn't worth it in the end(but at the same time it was, met a lot of awesome people on Ruairi :3 ), never did I expect a server merge to actually happen back then, I was always joked about it, but here we are now in 2019 about to get one.
    If I had special powers and could see into the future, and saw we would be getting a server merge I would of just stayed put in Tarlach.

    So long, Ruairi server. You will be missed.
    Tarlach server was okay too, in a sense I will also miss it since it was the server I first joined.
  • MaiaMaia
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    I doubt anyone really expected a merge a couple years ago. I have mixed feelings but in general a larger population is better. I somewhat feel bad for people who switched servers but nobody would've known better plus there's almost nobody that hasn't either taken a hiatus or started later than g1 so it's not like by restarting on a new character/account you're "behind." Stuff like that might've mattered earlier in the game if you wanted to compete but a lot less so now. I made my giant 6 months ago and it's probably one of the best built characters on the server (excluding the fact my total on it is only 25k, not 40k yet). It's super easy to rebuild if you know what you're doing.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Maia wrote: »
    Mari, Tarlach, and Ruairi were fresh-slate servers. No character data was imported or anything. Yes the beta was called Nao but that server didn't "become Mari" in the sense that everyone who played the beta joined that server. All three servers were essentially new so no server had a special tag. Also understand that pretty much no one knew that Mari=Nao, so there was no connection.

    Ah. Thanks for the clarity. I wasn't around then so I was going by what I've read here. Either I misunderstood what some have posted or they were mistaken, or it was a combination.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    edited June 1
    Nvm, first post mentioned it.
  • SairekSairek
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    I'm curious on how they're apparently going to prevent "name stealing" when I have probably one of the most sought names in the game and have been playing since day 1 (more if you count the open beta):

    8ienljk.png



    Unless the other two "Vincent"s on Mari and Tarlach are not playing anymore at all and I get exclusive priority, or the most active player gets first dibs on a specific name, I don't know how they're going to prevent said "name stealing". I wouldn't doubt a lot of people would be trying to grab the name as well. I've ran into and have seen a lot of "Vincentt"s and "Vimcent"s and "Viincent"s in my time playing on Ruairi, at least in the early days.
    DanievictriaDarkpixie99
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Sairek wrote: »
    Unless the other two "Vincent"s on Mari and Tarlach are not playing anymore at all and I get exclusive priority, or the most active player gets first dibs on a specific name, I don't know how they're going to prevent said "name stealing". I wouldn't doubt a lot of people would be trying to grab the name as well. I've ran into and have seen a lot of "Vincentt"s and "Vimcent"s and "Viincent"s in my time playing on Ruairi, at least in the early days.

    Here's how I think they will do it, or at least how they SHOULD do it:
    - if your name is already unique then everything is fine.
    - if there is another YOU on another server then after the merge you will be Vincent+Ruari and THEY will be Vincent+Mari, say. Let's say a Person's A Nuisance tries to hijack the name by creating a brand new character called Vincent. First the algorithm will check if there is a "Vincent" on Nao already, it will find that there is not so stage one is passed. Next, it will look if there is "Vincent+*" on Nao, it will find two, so stage two failed and the name is not available. Conversely, this will mean that YOU cannot change your name back to "Vincent". On the other hand if both of you change your name to other things THEN "Vincent" will become available to the early bird.

    At a later date if they find a means to allow multiple Vincents, then either you would get a name change coupon, or they may take all the Vincent+*'s and turn them into Vincents.
  • SenjiSenji
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    yep ... for the day to come where Some other person takes your name" Destroys Your Identity " ...... may the Old Nao server users of the first 3 yrs rest in pieces.....due to nexon's failure to notice mistake after the split that day