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Older players are being unappreciated

XxemopuppetXxemopuppet
Mabinogi Rep: 400
Posts: 2
Member
I love the merge and everything... but its really unfair how the older players are treated. leveling and gaining skills "with the skill potions" is cheating. Us older players didnt have that. We had to GRIND YEARS for those skills and levels that new players can get in just a few days   we should get some special ability, title, or SOMETHING.
I remmeber getting something to r1 took alot of time and hard work. We were proud to show it off.... but now anyone can buy their way up ranks or just do the memoir and get the ap and levels way faster than we did. Please give us something to show for our hard work that turned out to be a waste of time seeing that anyone can do it within weeks now.

also please stop bringing back old items. Gatchas shouldnt ever have older items in it. it kills the value of things. Lets say you get an item that is epic. everyone wants one but there are only a few on the server.. you are unique!... but then a year later that same item is in another gatcha and several more people get it.. it suddenly isn't worth much anymore. It causes people to hold off on buying things in game because we all know the price will drop eventually since nexon has a habit of bringing back old items over and over,

Comments

  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,120
    Posts: 838
    Member
    edited July 2
    They should continue to bring back items because it's unfair to the people who don't have them. It's not fair that if someone wants to buy something, they have to spend like 100m on it because it's 'rare' I am glad eventually nexon brings back everything and I hope they continue to do so. Right now there is a pair of wings that I want and they are 175m and have only brought back once. I am waiting for them to be brought back again. Just like Tuans. When they first came out people paid 200m for tuan wings, I was able to buy my pair for 30m. I don't give a flying feather about value. Everyone should have to obtain items at a decent price.
    LeineiDraechKensamaofmariHisahimeSherriroastedpigDanievictriaSpareohSpringvioletCrimsand 4 others.
  • Donk3yDonk3y
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,050
    Posts: 122
    Member
    edited July 2
    I love the merge and everything... but its really unfair how the older players are treated. leveling and gaining skills "with the skill potions" is cheating. Us older players didnt have that. We had to GRIND YEARS for those skills and levels that new players can get in just a few days   we should get some special ability, title, or SOMETHING.

    This is akin to saying "Hey, it's cheating that people nowadays don't die from bacterial infection, they should die off like the people before the discovery of antibiotics!"

    You shouldn't be butthurt because the game is easier on the newbies, you should be happy for it, because that means there will be more new players, or rather, more new players would stay.
    Imagine being a new player, and having to literally grind for years (a la 7-8 years ago) in order to get to the 5k total you need to start g22...
    Besides, you get to profit from this as well if you make a new character.
    I remmeber getting something to r1 took alot of time and hard work. We were proud to show it off.... but now anyone can buy their way up ranks or just do the memoir and get the ap and levels way faster than we did. Please give us something to show for our hard work that turned out to be a waste of time seeing that anyone can do it within weeks now.

    Again, it wasn't a waste of time, you achieved something back then, when it was new, when not that many people had that/did that, just like how you will achieve something now by maxing your techniques (which is relatively hard for the new players).
    It's bloody obvious that older content will become easier the more time passes. I mean, while we're at it, don't you also want Glas to scale with the player's total level and stats, so that they can get that original G1 experience of barely being able to beat it?
    also please stop bringing back old items. Gatchas shouldnt ever have older items in it. it kills the value of things. Lets say you get an item that is epic. everyone wants one but there are only a few on the server.. you are unique!... but then a year later that same item is in another gatcha and several more people get it.. it suddenly isn't worth much anymore. It causes people to hold off on buying things in game because we all know the price will drop eventually since nexon has a habit of bringing back old items over and over,

    Yes, because monopoly is the best thing in the world!
    IonHisahimeSherriroastedpigDanievictriaSpareohAmarazSuuChaosShadow
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 28,395
    Posts: 6,231
    Member
    But as an older player, you get a different sense of satisfaction for your accomplishments over how newer players get their accomplishments.
    DanievictriaAmarazEmilieBerry
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,725
    Posts: 1,950
    Member
    edited July 2
    I'm an "older" player. We will always have our "war stories" for the youngens. "In my day, sonny, 'Who reached Level 50 at age 10' meant something!" I've got plenty to be mad about: literally, I spent hundreds of actual dollars on skill reset caps. Now, we have Duncan's reset service. Well, that really sucks for me, but it's good for the game. So, like the aphorism goes: "Suck it up Princess!"; this princess did.
    KensamaofmariIonSherriDanievictriaSuu
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 40,435
    Posts: 5,738
    Member
    Oh no, this type of thread is back again. Calling skill potions as cheating... Smh, my IQ is hurting.
  • MaiaMaia
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,430
    Posts: 832
    Member
    "Back in my day..."

    Simply put, you put all that money/effort into training skills and acquiring items when they came out because you wanted it right then. Skills and items become easier to obtain over time and require less effort for those who wait. It's not cheating because someone didn't deem it worth the extra effort to acquire something on day 1. Look at literally anything else in the world pretty much and look at how it devalues over time lol
    GretaSherriDanievictria
  • AquasolAquasol
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,830
    Posts: 401
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Us older players didnt have that. We had to GRIND YEARS for those skills and levels that new players can get in just a few days   we should get some special ability, title, or SOMETHING.

    You do get a title. It’s not possible to skip out on the training to master an R1 skill, and attempts to gain extra skill exp will not deduct from the count, meaning you could be 35,000/35,000 and still need 15,000+.
    Spareoh
  • Donk3yDonk3y
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,050
    Posts: 122
    Member
    Also dan levels can't be bought with potions or AP, though there are those really rare training skill seals
    Kensamaofmari
  • NemurikoAlexinaNemurikoAlexina
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,310
    Posts: 75
    Member
    Aquasol wrote: »
    You do get a title. It’s not possible to skip out on the training to master an R1 skill, and attempts to gain extra skill exp will not deduct from the count, meaning you could be 35,000/35,000 and still need 15,000+.

    Not true. I created a new character on Nao server just after the merge. In one weekend, at 160x training multiplier (thanks to event), I went from rank F engineering and magic craft, to having the master titles for both. The next day I completed all the memoir quests, gaining over 50k AP.

    Though, I was around back when training was hard. I reached rank 1 in every uncapped life skill before talents, training seals, or any alternative training methods existed, so I understand and respect anyone else who was able to do the same. For a while after training seals were introduced, I felt bitter about them as well. But, those feelings are gone. Mabinogi has changed, and no title or skill rank is difficult enough that you can feel unique by having earned it. Personally, I've shifted my focus to earning gold and acquiring rare items to sell. I now pride myself on running my mabi business, and going shopping on AH for stuff I don't even need. I'm not the type to save money, after all.

    On that note, I want to present to you the thought that, while most people can and do easily train those difficult skills to rank 1, master, or even Dan 3, it doesn't mean they make use of them. The true accomplishment you should feel from ranking difficult skills is the benefits you receive from them, whether it be crafting high-demand weapons and armors, filling shops with cheaply produced potions, clearing entire rooms of enemies with ease, breezing through difficult content with capped stats, filling your bank account to the point of bursting, or even just showing off some flashy skill to new players. Completing your skill training, regardless of the method, won't seem too special if it's not a skill you really use for anything, because it's not 'having' rank 1 that's the accomplishment, it's using the skill to its full potential.

    Danievictria
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 28,395
    Posts: 6,231
    Member
    I once had the goal of trying to get to max rank by perfectly training all skills, but in the end it is not feasible. A player will easily fall behind unless they invest a lot of their time into the game, and not all people have that time available to do so. That's why training pots are a boost for those people sometimes.

    Training pots shouldn't be an excuse to be lazy though, but it does allow the lazy to get by training without going through all the difficulties others had to do so in the past.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,725
    Posts: 1,950
    Member
    Training pots shouldn't be an excuse to be lazy though, but it does allow the lazy to get by training without going through all the difficulties others had to do so in the past.

    There's no rules here; if you wanna be "lazy" be lazy. It takes "work" to get training seals too, don't forget. I used training seals to do a couple ranks of cooking because I flat out did not want to run the cooking dungeon 110 times, and I'm totally okay with that
    Kensamaofmari
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,790
    Posts: 798
    Member
    I love the merge and everything... but its really unfair how the older players are treated. leveling and gaining skills "with the skill potions" is cheating. Us older players didnt have that. We had to GRIND YEARS for those skills and levels that new players can get in just a few days   we should get some special ability, title, or SOMETHING.
    I remmeber getting something to r1 took alot of time and hard work. We were proud to show it off.... but now anyone can buy their way up ranks or just do the memoir and get the ap and levels way faster than we did. Please give us something to show for our hard work that turned out to be a waste of time seeing that anyone can do it within weeks now.

    also please stop bringing back old items. Gatchas shouldnt ever have older items in it. it kills the value of things. Lets say you get an item that is epic. everyone wants one but there are only a few on the server.. you are unique!... but then a year later that same item is in another gatcha and several more people get it.. it suddenly isn't worth much anymore. It causes people to hold off on buying things in game because we all know the price will drop eventually since nexon has a habit of bringing back old items over and over,

    Welcome to Nexon.

    As for bringing back old items, that's the only likely-to-happen way to stop people from price-gouging.
    Danievictria
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,355
    Posts: 2,196
    Member
    They should bring back those titles that let everyone see when you started playing; 'a First Anniversary Milletian', 'a Second Anniversary Milletian', etc. from this event here..
    Danievictria
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 28,395
    Posts: 6,231
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Training pots shouldn't be an excuse to be lazy though, but it does allow the lazy to get by training without going through all the difficulties others had to do so in the past.

    There's no rules here; if you wanna be "lazy" be lazy. It takes "work" to get training seals too, don't forget. I used training seals to do a couple ranks of cooking because I flat out did not want to run the cooking dungeon 110 times, and I'm totally okay with that

    Yes, of course.
    I too use training pots, seals and buy other things to get training done rather than go through an endless grind I may not have time for.
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,655
    Posts: 312
    Member
    One thing I've learned in online games over the years: Never get too attached to the idea that an old event item will appreciate in value over time.

    Lots of online games (download-based and browser-based) re-release older items from events or the cash shop every once in a while. It's a way of making sure that newer players have a fighting chance to get their hands on them and ensuring that a shrinking supply (because of older players holding onto their prize and items on inactive accounts not budging either way) and growing demand (because of growing player population) don't make some items impossible to get, which could discourage new players enough for them to become demotivated and quit the game. Basically, it's part of maintaining a healthy, long-lasting online game. Games that don't do this for at least some event/cash shop items tend to lose newbies fairly easily because people go, "Inflation has made the X amount of gold I can make in a day basically pennies, all the best items are worth 100,000 times as much as I can ever hope to have and will just keep going up because they're one-time releases, and I can't afford to spend/don't want to waste my money on the cash shop cheese method to get some pixels from five years ago from some smug jerk in Cincinnati who's been playing since Open Beta. I'm out." (No offense to anyone who's from Cincinnati and/or has been playing since Open Beta, it's just an example of the thought process of a newbie who gets turned off from a game with too many expensive one-time rares and too much inflation.)

    As for the so-called depreciation of the worth of skill ranks, titles, and overall power due to things being made easier as the game has gone on...HAVE YOU SEEN HOW HUGE THIS GAME'S BACKLOG OF CONTENT IS??!!! Unlike some games that have plots that last for a month or two, then are made unavailable after that (the story, the rewards, everything except for maybe a residual feature or NPC), Mabinogi keeps all of its main story content playable. That's over a decade, hundreds of hours, of story, missions, and bosses. A new player who's just starting and wants to jump into the story at the point it is now shouldn't have to grind their way up through over a decade of content just to get caught up and strong enough to participate. That's why WoW sells character boosts, and that's why Mabi has made it easier over time to level up and get strong. Do you think WoW players who had to grind their way up to whatever level by hand in the olden days like that a new player with deep enough pockets can get an instantly leveled-up character by dropping a few bucks, or can just use the group-finder to find people to run content with real quick, or don't have to go through a crazy attunement process to participate in raids like back in Vanilla? A lot don't, but these changes were necessary to keep the game alive and lively as new content rolled out, new players rolled in, and older players had less and less time for the game thanks to adult responsibilities like jobs and kids and cleaning the gutters taking up more and more of their time. It only makes sense that as a perpetual online game ages, it becomes more casual to accommodate aging long-time players and newer players who may be less patient than their generational older brothers and sisters due to cultural and technological shifts that occurred during their childhoods. Be's that way, Homie.
    KensamaofmariSherriSuu
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,790
    Posts: 798
    Member
    edited July 3
    One thing I've learned in online games over the years: Never get too attached to the idea that an old event item will appreciate in value over time.

    Lots of online games (download-based and browser-based) re-release older items from events or the cash shop every once in a while. It's a way of making sure that newer players have a fighting chance to get their hands on them and ensuring that a shrinking supply (because of older players holding onto their prize and items on inactive accounts not budging either way) and growing demand (because of growing player population) don't make some items impossible to get, which could discourage new players enough for them to become demotivated and quit the game. Basically, it's part of maintaining a healthy, long-lasting online game. Games that don't do this for at least some event/cash shop items tend to lose newbies fairly easily because people go, "Inflation has made the X amount of gold I can make in a day basically pennies, all the best items are worth 100,000 times as much as I can ever hope to have and will just keep going up because they're one-time releases, and I can't afford to spend/don't want to waste my money on the cash shop cheese method to get some pixels from five years ago from some smug jerk in Cincinnati who's been playing since Open Beta. I'm out." (No offense to anyone who's from Cincinnati and/or has been playing since Open Beta, it's just an example of the thought process of a newbie who gets turned off from a game with too many expensive one-time rares and too much inflation.)

    As for the so-called depreciation of the worth of skill ranks, titles, and overall power due to things being made easier as the game has gone on...HAVE YOU SEEN HOW HUGE THIS GAME'S BACKLOG OF CONTENT IS??!!! Unlike some games that have plots that last for a month or two, then are made unavailable after that (the story, the rewards, everything except for maybe a residual feature or NPC), Mabinogi keeps all of its main story content playable. That's over a decade, hundreds of hours, of story, missions, and bosses. A new player who's just starting and wants to jump into the story at the point it is now shouldn't have to grind their way up through over a decade of content just to get caught up and strong enough to participate. That's why WoW sells character boosts, and that's why Mabi has made it easier over time to level up and get strong. Do you think WoW players who had to grind their way up to whatever level by hand in the olden days like that a new player with deep enough pockets can get an instantly leveled-up character by dropping a few bucks, or can just use the group-finder to find people to run content with real quick, or don't have to go through a crazy attunement process to participate in raids like back in Vanilla? A lot don't, but these changes were necessary to keep the game alive and lively as new content rolled out, new players rolled in, and older players had less and less time for the game thanks to adult responsibilities like jobs and kids and cleaning the gutters taking up more and more of their time. It only makes sense that as a perpetual online game ages, it becomes more casual to accommodate aging long-time players and newer players who may be less patient than their generational older brothers and sisters due to cultural and technological shifts that occurred during their childhoods. Be's that way, Homie.

    The only exception I have when it comes to re-releasing old content is in regards to crossover content.

    That stuff can't be re-released due to licensing issues, and the only time copies are generated are, if, say, someone loses a crossover item due to a crash; that's not adding a new copy, its just restoring lost bytes.
    also please stop bringing back old items. Gatchas shouldnt ever have older items in it. it kills the value of things. Lets say you get an item that is epic. everyone wants one but there are only a few on the server.. you are unique!... but then a year later that same item is in another gatcha and several more people get it.. it suddenly isn't worth much anymore. It causes people to hold off on buying things in game because we all know the price will drop eventually since nexon has a habit of bringing back old items over and over,
    Danie pretty much hit all the important parts on why this part of your post is nothing but an entitled child's tantrum, but I'll re-iterate.

    People in this game are greedy, and will often gouge prices on something they might not have even planned on using. If such items were supposed to be "treasured" as rare, then why bother even making them tradeable?
    DanievictriaKensamaofmariSherri
  • SpareohSpareoh
    Mabinogi Rep: 780
    Posts: 52
    Member
    I've technically been playing for 6 years now but I took a good 2 year break...so I guess I'm only a 4 year player but I like the changes they made. I quit because I suck and I was stuck, and when I came back with the new AP skill changes, I was able to get over that hurdle and continue the storylines I loved.

    I'm half and half on the items being re-released. On one hand, when I first started, the Gamyu armor robes were 3m and were just a cute dream, but then they released a fishing event and they dropped down to 500g. While I feel like that's necessary to keep the "value" of items from going out of control, it IS a shame to see all the outfits that I paid for when they were first released like the Vampire Hunter outfits decline in value instead of going up. There's not really an item investment anymore.

    I guess it's just the same argument going on right now in politics with the possibility of freeing student debt and all the people going "that's not fair, I PAID mine off so other people should have to suffer like I did"
    KensamaofmariDanievictriaSherri
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,790
    Posts: 798
    Member

    Spareoh wrote: »
    I've technically been playing for 6 years now but I took a good 2 year break...so I guess I'm only a 4 year player but I like the changes they made. I quit because I suck and I was stuck, and when I came back with the new AP skill changes, I was able to get over that hurdle and continue the storylines I loved.

    I'm half and half on the items being re-released. On one hand, when I first started, the Gamyu armor robes were 3m and were just a cute dream, but then they released a fishing event and they dropped down to 500g. While I feel like that's necessary to keep the "value" of items from going out of control, it IS a shame to see all the outfits that I paid for when they were first released like the Vampire Hunter outfits decline in value instead of going up. There's not really an item investment anymore.

    I guess it's just the same argument going on right now in politics with the possibility of freeing student debt and all the people going "that's not fair, I PAID mine off so other people should have to suffer like I did"

    If you get an item just in the hopes of it being worth more later, then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed 9 out of 10 times.

    Not to mention that the value of other items can actually de-value the worth of any given item.
  • SpareohSpareoh
    Mabinogi Rep: 780
    Posts: 52
    Member
    Spareoh wrote: »
    I've technically been playing for 6 years now but I took a good 2 year break...so I guess I'm only a 4 year player but I like the changes they made. I quit because I suck and I was stuck, and when I came back with the new AP skill changes, I was able to get over that hurdle and continue the storylines I loved.

    I'm half and half on the items being re-released. On one hand, when I first started, the Gamyu armor robes were 3m and were just a cute dream, but then they released a fishing event and they dropped down to 500g. While I feel like that's necessary to keep the "value" of items from going out of control, it IS a shame to see all the outfits that I paid for when they were first released like the Vampire Hunter outfits decline in value instead of going up. There's not really an item investment anymore.

    I guess it's just the same argument going on right now in politics with the possibility of freeing student debt and all the people going "that's not fair, I PAID mine off so other people should have to suffer like I did"

    If you get an item just in the hopes of it being worth more later, then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed 9 out of 10 times.

    Not to mention that the value of other items can actually de-value the worth of any given item.

    Yep that's exactly what I was saying
  • SpringvioletSpringviolet
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,335
    Posts: 99
    Member
    Life back in 2010 was hard but everyone works together. Most of us never had pets but those who had will give others a ride to save them the long walk from town to town. I still love the old days and still see old friends still playing.
    theAlphaMelon