[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!
Bring Back The Gypsy Talent Title
Comments
The irony.
Huh.. maybe they should just rename the Gypsy talent to the Siren talent then lol
Also, last post I made made an oopsie.
**EXPUNGED** is actually Austrian. o 3 o
it did but if you remember watching the movie the character that used it the most was frollo and he didn't exactly say it just as an identifier but also with much malice.
even in his song he equated gypsy to an evil witch.
but back on topic I think I agree with helsa this probably won't be changing back anytime soon.
even the pope went on to acknowledge the prejudice against them.
https://cruxnow.com/pope-in-romania/2019/06/02/pope-apologizes-to-gypsies-for-discrimination-and-segregation/
EDIT: I don't agree or disagree with this move, but just stating since a good chunk of mabi NA players are EU with some being in countries like Lithuania, Romania,Hungary. etc. where these groups are high in numbers even if a good chunk don't play I'm sure residents there are aware of them and probably play too.
with other stuff happening im sure this will one of the last complaints they'd want to deal with right now. ( still wonder why change it in the first place, maybe they foresaw something or just knew and wanted to change it and bury it, because much like the internet news cycle this will fade and most people will forget about this dilemma)
Who really knows?
Maybe in a few more years, gypsy won't be such a "problematic" name for Nexon to worry about, and they could bring the title back.
I, too, miss the old days when people died of polio.
On topic, if they changed the title because they felt it was distasteful, I wouldn't count on them going back on that decision. On the old forums, I could recall people taking issue with the title. I'm fine with the change.
While I get why they changed it, it's sad that we can't even play a game anymore without getting political or worrying about who's going to be offended.
But Austria also speaks Deutsch.
Dude, that's dark. Why do that?
The keyword here is "the old forums."
If there were no new threads created, then unlike the server merge, the complaints must've died off along with the decline in population.
Seems rather counter intuitive to change something in order to try and bring a small population back who already hates you, and is likely never going to be happy.
I feel old just listening to the president try and tell a speech which he's clearly ad-libing. (Poorly, I might add.)
Man, I loved Fantasia as a kid. Honestly can't remember how many Disney movies I watched, or how much I cared about meaning behind stuff.
I was honestly glued to the TV screen anticipating that something new and different or even my favorite thing might happen again.
(Because magic was totally real.) A pity the VCR is obsolete, cause even our DVDs get exchanged at a bookstore.
To kinda play devil's advocate, the NA team has never been quick to address many text-related issues that aren't related to on-going events. Ones like "Emain Macha is now in progress" have been present for how many years, now? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that it was probably in their backlog, and they're just now getting to it.
The NA team quite literally can't code anything that KR hasn't sent them.
So there's going to be a backlog of old or even outdated and no longer relevant requests.
Do you mean the folks calling for the return of the use of the term Gypsy are not them selves Roma people and place their wants for "atmosphere" above the feelings of the Roma people offended by the term, and are getting upset because offended people's "feelings" are getting in the way of the insensitive peoples fun?
Shylock is the name of the character from the Shakespeare play. Shylock was a money lender, and the term is now used to mean a loan shark. The character Shylock is Jewish. Before the Commercial Revolution, Christians were not allowed to charge interest, like Muslims are not today. The Jewish people never placed this limitation on themselves so, at this time, they were the money lenders in Europe. Since no one likes bankers, this along with the choosing Barrabas over Iesvs, is where anti-Semitism in Europe began. Once the Pope lifted that restriction, other folks (especially the Italians) entered the commercial industry. If one were to use the term Shylock for any Jewish person then that would be offensive. Here, it is for the actual name of the character. If you know a Jewish person named, say, Khaim, it would not be offensive to call them that, but if you call every Jewish person Khaim, or use Khaims in place of Jews then that is offensive. This is the case for Shylock and why it returned.
The term Gypsy is a corruption of "Egyptian", as Europeans had thought that this was where the Roma initially came from. So, it came about from ignorance and it's continued use is a testament to insensitivity. It's like calling south Asian people black. The first time is a simple mistake, continuing to do so is rude.
... and this is why Nexon isn't ever going to touch this no matter how long a pole you give them.
They did along with the leader of the crows in Dumbo being named Jim Crow; Disney has a lot to account for.
- - - - -
The longer this thread gets the less and less likely that the term will return, regardless of whether the OP gets the last word or not. Corporations are inherently cautious in their decision making and Nexon has nothing to gain by bringing it back and plenty to lose.
EDIT: fixed typos
I think Nexon completely fails to grasp why the right of self-designation is important in a pluralist society.
Unlike “gypsy”, “bard” was actually a derogatory term. Bards were seen as itinerant trouble makers. And “wandering bard” reinforces the negative stereotype of bards as vagrants, vagabonds, rogues, tramps, drifters. Itinerant communities are constantly having to battle this tendency of settled communities to lump them in with derelicts.
Of course language is constantly evolving. Sir Walter Scott gave us this romanticized bard as like the lyric poets of Ancient Greece. And “wandering bard” in this romanticized sense can be seen as idyllic (the lyric poet wandering the hills, seeking inspiration).
Bard in each of these cases has the same referent. They are just different senses of the same word. Gypsy and gypsy on the other hand are capitonyms. The meaning of the word changes based on whether or not it is capitalized. Examples: Turkey (the country)/turkey (the bird), China (the country)/china (porcelain), March (month)/march (walk) or march (frontier). Sometimes these words evolve independently (March/march) and sometimes not (Turkey/turkey; China/china). Nevertheless, most rational people don’t run around claiming turkey is a pejorative for Turks, or that Turkey is a pejorative given by people who see Turks as like turkeys, or that turkey’s “appropriated” their name from the Turks. And most sane people don’t run around calling for bans on Thanksgiving claiming it as a national holiday celebrating anti-Turkish sentiments.
Gypsy (proper noun)
In American English, the proper noun “Gypsy” is commonly used in reference to Romani ethnicity. There is no historical evidence of the term ever being offensive or contemptuous. And prior to the 1980s every Romani-American sub-culture translated its self-designation to English as Gypsy. But some newer immigrants like the Sinti and Roma have never called themselves Gypsy. To call them Gypsy is to deny them the right of self-designation. Some might take offense. So it is generally recommended to use the term cautiously if at all.
Where I live Romani-Americans traditionally designate themselves as either Rom or Gypsy. Rom expresses belonging to a Gypsy community. Gypsy expresses belonging to the Gypsy ethnic group. One can be Rom and not be Gypsy. One can be Gypsy and not be Rom. So the terms are not synonyms despite efforts by some to treat them as such. And they don’t typically get offended if people don’t know the difference.
Gypsy (common noun)
In American English, the common noun “gypsy” is just a generic term that refers to any itinerant person. When it was coined it was obviously in the sense of “like a Gypsy”, who were at the time itinerant people. But the term hasn’t been connected to any racial or ethnic group for well over 500 years. And there is no reliable source that even urges caution when using this term, much less urging us not to use it.
In 2018, a woman in Portland, Oregon claimed that it should be taken as offensive. And naturally every wannabe social justice warrior had to jump on the bandwagon.
The Gypsy Robe incident is a perfect example. One of the claims surrounding the Gypsy Robe tradition was that it “appropriated” the name of an ethnic group. This was blatantly false. The name actually derived from the fact that the robe passed from one show to another. The other claim, that Gypsy is a pejorative, was also blatantly false. In the end they gave into fear that the issue would divide the community and changed the name. But even they didn’t go so far as to change the name for those already carrying the title. Nexon just took the bullshit to an all new level.
This is a common myth.
Actually, the Romani people had no origin stories. They didn't know where they came from either. And Muslims were referring to them as Copts (Christian Egyptians) long before they arrived in England. The odds that the English independently made the same mistake is slim to none. In all probability it was the Romani people who designated themselves as Egyptian. Still, we will never now.
And whatever the origin of the term it has absolutely no relevance to its use today.Take "man" for example. Man was just an indefinite article. It was often used in a demeaning manner to refer to adult male servants. The terms for distinguishig between gender were wer and wif. Wifman (woman) was used to refer to adult female servants. But clearly that is not how these terms are used today. If we are going to play these stupid little word games, we might as well ban communication altogether.
Thank you for the historical debunks and opinions of people in your area.
If one does not know where one came from, then how can one possibly feel offended by others seeing them as fitting into the lore of some faraway and mystical place?
To deny the term of "gypsy" having a vast amount of definitions might as well be like denying the ancient belief in myths of the Greek gods, due to claims of some Christian pastor.
This sort of nonsensical social media outrage is why historians often say that modern man would never survive the medieval period.
Edit: OR PALM READER