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Elves/Giants, Execute Order 66.

AlshianAlshian
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edited February 11 in General Chat
Seeing the trailer about Giants and elves working together to fight the humans, oh jeez.

Comments

  • CrimsCrims
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    the-time-has-5bdcc7.jpg
    Kensamaofmari
  • NilremNilrem
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    So a normal day of EvG?
    Wolfsinger
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    We got fed up with Final Hit being so centralizing and game breaking.
    Radiant DawnAlshianWolfsingerSherriPolicroma
  • AlshianAlshian
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    Lutetium wrote: »
    We got fed up with Final Hit being so centralizing and game breaking.

    Better fix that mindset now because final hit is not at the top anymore but rather at least 3rd or 4th place in the "game breaking" department, fighter with Perseus Tormented Knuckles is now at the top of being game breaking.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    edited February 12
    Crims wrote: »
    the-time-has-5bdcc7.jpg

    Unfortunately, Secretary Mattis was already disposed of, so this meme is obsolete.
  • FluoretteFluorette
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    What? Where?
    Is it for an update that finally cares to explain some of the unexplained lore regarding the ancient elves and giants?
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Maybe Neamhain's back?
  • CrimsCrims
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    Bashing on final hit again. There ARE ways to counter it ya know ya newbs. :smirk:
    WolfsingerAlshian
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Fluorette wrote: »
    What? Where?
    Is it for an update that finally cares to explain some of the unexplained lore regarding the ancient elves and giants?

    No, pretty sure it's about this part of G24
    http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/21247/2nd-3rd-g24-trailer-interesting-story-setup
  • GretaGreta
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    edited February 12
    Giant Full Swing Attack bro... Send flying mobs away and leaves FH in dust. They also got Giant FH version. Why no one is moaning over that?
  • AlshianAlshian
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    Greta wrote: »
    Giant Full Swing Attack bro... Send flying mobs away and leaves FH in dust. They also got Giant FH version. Why no one is moaning over that?

    cus giant FH sucks?

    Also humans had final hit with divine blade for some small aoe although i don't really care about that no more.

    Fighter...a talent used to be seen as pretty weak suddenly hit the top as the pinnacle of all talents in terms of raw damage once you get a hold on one of the newer knuckles. Aoe stinks but its damage, it falls bosses without a sweat.

    Although I don't care about that either cus fighter can be used by any race, even being an elf don't hurt the damage too hard, and the missing will power can be gained from being such a high total level from shine of eweca. Light armor does not seem to be a huge loss without heavy armor either.

    What I like to cry about is how pathetic gunners had become and now its below alchemy of all talents. Way of the gun is it's only redeeming use for some situations.

    But enough about my farcry, this dragon sure knows how it became on top of the food chain :B
    SherriLutetium
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Unfortunately, Secretary Mattis was already disposed of, so this meme is obsolete.

    I think it's because the Evil Emporer has been executing Order 66 on his own staff.
    KensamaofmariWolfsinger
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Alshian wrote: »
    Better fix that mindset now because final hit is not at the top anymore but rather at least 3rd or 4th place in the "game breaking" department, fighter with Perseus Tormented Knuckles is now at the top of being game breaking.

    No mindset to "fix", FH is the top CENTRALIZING skill in the game, Perseus knuckle is amazing but the massive SINGLE TARGET dps it can generate is still reliant on rng cooldown resets, FH is [CONSISTENT] in it's high single target damage, FH was less than mag spam (if you live next to the amazon datacenter in oregon, or cali before nexon moved mabi to amazon ec2) even before the new knuckles anyway, but it isn't just being a good single target DPS that makes FH so centralizing, it's the fact 2h swords got piercing levels and piercing level boosting enchants, and then divine blade and soluna came along giving a 90% splash damage ratio up from Fanatic's 70% (which is still a 280% splash damage rate, more than r1 Windmill but less than dan 3), and erg came along after and boosted their splash radius to insane levels that make every hit of FH not only have a larger radius than Windmill at age 17 but also come in at a high damage multiplier of 360% (400% on main target still), and remember you hit every 0.4 seconds without relentless assault and can go even faster with it on hitting every 0.3 seconds for a potential 70 seconds of duration with reforges and only 50 seconds of downtime when combined with the cooldown reforge.

    With that in mind, consider that newer content's normal spawns are getting more and more defense and protection, good as Perseus knuckle is on a boss after some lovetaps with Brionac and kisses from a couple dragons, that isn't a valid tactic on the rest of the mission's spawns even if Brionac did reduce protection of all non-boss monsters, FH with a piercing 2h however is a very valid AOE for dealing with normal spawns with high defense and protection, especially combined with the new ego bleed passive, ontop of the 4 piercing levels you can get on a divine blade via solitude enchant w/o needing to buy a single gachapon ignore 30 def/20 prot, the bleed is 870% of your max damage over it's 30 second duration (29 ticks of 30%) which ignores monster defense and protection, the bleed is only 10% chance on hit to activate however due to the speed FH hits at it's pretty much a guarantee, the check is also per monster splashed. Of course you're not even going to be hitting normal spawns for 30 seconds with that kind of gear for FH even in Feth Elite, but the bleed is just that much more ontop of the huge AOE damage FH is doing already which brings me to:
    Greta wrote: »
    Giant Full Swing Attack bro... Send flying mobs away and leaves FH in dust. They also got Giant FH version. Why no one is moaning over that?

    Full Swing is no comparison for FH as an AOE in the DPS department, the single hit damage is higher and the radius is a bit larger than an erg 50 2h sword but there's a short stun on you after firing the skill based on weapon attack speed, the only good weapons for using Full Swing are all Very-Slow, combine this with the fact you have to use the skill at the proper time in the minigame to actually do full damage and it's considerably lower AOE DPS than Final Hit, ontop of that none of the 2h Axes or Hammers that exist in the game currently have piercing levels, you don't get to ignore 20% protection with Full Swing on normal spawns like you do with Final Hit. Also unlike Final Hit, Full Swing is effectively useless as a single target damage option, losing out to bash or even just smashing.

    "But giants have FH too" you say, but in that sentence you reveal that you've never played a giant and likely have never even run a mission with one because you would IMMEDIATELY realize Final Strike's agonizing and crippling "warm up" taking 2 seconds of downtime between the first 4 hits, 1 second between the next 6, before finally getting to it's max speed of 0.5 seconds per hit (unaffected by relentless assault) for the rest of the duration, reforges put the duration and cooldown in line with Final Hit at 70s duration and 50s cooldown, and on paper Final Strike looks pretty good with that "700% damage, boosted with 2 handed weapons" on the skill window (which translates to a 1.2x boost like smash with a 2h for 840% per hit), but in practice it fails to compare due to the slow startup and slow attacks that can't been sped up, but it isn't just the 2 handed multiplier boost Final Strike shares with Smash, it also shares the fixed splash damage ratio of 20% the skill damage, unlike Final Hit which is splashing 360% with a Divine Blade or 280% with a Fanatic/Borealis, Final Strike will only deal 168% to splashed targets making it a complete noodle for use as an AOE in the way FH excels, Devcat very clearly was aware of FH's centralization and designed Final Strike to be crippled as an AOE and only have use in being a single target damage skill, something Giants were lacking in before it and then later Perseus knuckles, it's only saving grace now is that it ignores the 50% damage reduction from Heavy Stander auto-defense activations (but not the passive damage reduction) later game Rev and Pers knuckles will deprecate Final Strike for a Giant, but they won't deprecate Final Hit on a human because it's still a massively powerful AOE and gives high boss damage without needing to invest into a half billion-4 billion gold weapon and give up an equip slot.

    All that being said, Giants having the combination of having access to Final Strike and Full Swing both shouldn't be entirely snuffed at, it makes them significantly superior to playing an Elf if you're not living next to the server as I've explained many times in past posts, and late game Giant is basically immune to damage with the correct armor, stats, and technique combinations short of crits and boss hits in Tech Duinn elites, but the fact is you're combining access to two skills which individually are both worse for their use cases than Final Hit, two skills which I might add require separate gear, you don't just need FH cooldown helm + duration armor on a Giant, you need either TWO helms with Wind Guard cooldown and Final Strike cooldown, a miracle to roll usable levels of both on the same line, or one on a helm and the other on an echostone losing your chance for sword/blunt/axe/combat max on the echostone slot, Final Strike duration on your armor, and Wind Guard duration on your gauntlets which similar to the red echostone issue prevents you getting weapon/combat max lines there unless you get double roll miracle rng, but that isn't all you're going to need a piercing 2h sword+shield for Final Striking with, particularly if you want it to do any worthwile damage to minibosses that can't be sheered like Soaring Legs, and you also need a 2h Axe or 2h Hammer, this all need enchanted and the Axe/Hammer will need Giant Fullswing Exclusive damage reforge if you want Full Swing to be anything more than a wet noodle, or you can get it on a silver echostone, but you have to decide then if you want to give up your boot reforge slot for Full Swing Exclusive range.

    So effectively you're looking at a full gear set, fully reforged including echostones to use two skills that are worse than Final Hit which requires 1 sword 1 helm 1 armor for peak effectiveness, but really you're going to end up replacing the Final Strike gear for fighter gear and knuckles anyway.

    But ya'll gunna sit here trying to tell me FH isn't a centralizing skill that completely trivializes all content situations and claim "chain sweep" is the "most broken thing in the game and removes all need for strategy" like red fox man LOL. The only counter to FH is a mob that's immune to melee damage.
    Alshian wrote: »
    What I like to cry about is how pathetic gunners had become and now its below alchemy of all talents. Way of the gun is it's only redeeming use for some situations.

    Guns are trash now outside of frenzy, no pierce, long cooldowns even with erg, lackluster ego bonuses, trash scaling, even frenzy is trash because everything else is a better single target dps. I personally demand a shooter buff and believe we as a community should collectively post more threads about it in feedback than alexina merge threads! (tm)
    Habimaru
  • KohuKohu
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    Lutetium wrote: »

    But ya'll gunna sit here trying to tell me FH isn't a centralizing skill that completely trivializes all content situations and claim "chain sweep" is the "most broken thing in the game and removes all need for strategy" like red fox man LOL. The only counter to FH is a mob that's immune to melee damage.

    Not to mention on top of all that FH doesn't consume durability. I've dropped the BIS enchants to opt for slightly less max on my axe in order to spam fullswing. I'm still at the mercy of 67th for the additional pierce on my sword however. Using the BIS enchants with the repair stacking hurt, even when repairing at 95%. On average I would barely break even or not at all after accounting for repairs with most runs of elite tech or puri. Anything less is unsustainable. When I played a human I could ride out my FH weapons all the way through until the next free repair event. Must be nice being able to not be afflicted with the gold sink that is 10x repair.

    With Erg50 becoming more commonplace and seeing how far that splash radius when using normal attacks is for myself I will admit I was a bit salty with others being able to throw out what was effectively 3 windmills every second for no maintenance cost.
  • GretaGreta
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    edited February 12
    Not gonna read those walls of text, but my opinion stays that Giant combat is more superior than Human.
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Greta wrote: »
    I'm going to pretend that skills and math don't work the way they do and ignore all explainations otherwise because I am right no matter what the numbers say.

    20a4375266.png
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    Greta wrote: »
    Not gonna read those walls of text, but my opinion stays that Giant combat is more superior than Human.

    Surprisingly, one of the few Europeans here takes the Donald Trump approach to discourse.
    Lutetium
  • FluoretteFluorette
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    Fluorette wrote: »
    What? Where?
    Is it for an update that finally cares to explain some of the unexplained lore regarding the ancient elves and giants?

    No, pretty sure it's about this part of G24
    http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/21247/2nd-3rd-g24-trailer-interesting-story-setup

    Drat! Maybe next time...
    Oh, I see. I haven't started any of Chapter 7 yet, so this link would probably be nothing but spoilers. QQ
    Thanks, though.
  • GretaGreta
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    Yeah change the quotes of mine however you want, that's really nice of you. I have my opinion and you have yours. We cool?
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Greta wrote: »
    I have my opinion and you have yours. We cool?

    Math is objective not an opinion. Are you ok?
    Surprisingly, one of the few Europeans here takes the Donald Trump approach to discourse.

    The Donald Trump approach to the Final Hit Question would be a wall of legal text Terms of Service to ban any negative statements or criticism about God's- Devcat's chosen peo- race, Humans with "the truth being no exception" to "anti-humanetic" statements passed via forced emergency maintenance patch that no one voted o- was informed of at the beginning of the yearly Human-only event celebrating the deaths of Elves and Giants.
    While funneling 40 billion gold in Elf and Giant tax payer dollars into Tir, and not building the physical wall along the border to Rano that his entire campaign centered on and allowing more and more Dragons to infest Fillia and Vales bringing duped potions laced with poison, weapons of questionable origin and quality, killing newbies and spamming rest on all of the (F).
    All the while spamming bugles about having the biggest Meteor radius, how his impacts instantly, and how his Meteor hotkey is the highest resolution.

    t. American.
    I get what you're saying though.