Faybal

I cackled,.,. That Memoir quest literally requires you to die.
It looks like the issue here with this WHOLE argument is that it is based on your experience and your experience alone. You seem to be unable to understand that just because something doesn't happen to you/you don't feel a certain way/you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. If you don't experience lag, that's great for you. You clearly don't recall whole monster servers crashing. Multiple instances of server-side lag/crashing has been happening throughout mabi's history. Check the bugs/crashes logs on mabi wiki and you'll see. That doesn't even list all of them, just crashes that happened to be recorded.

Considering your language seems very defensive and almost aggressive, I have decided I will be matching your energy.

Fundamentally, as many others have pointed out, this idea won't work. Literally NO ONE except for someone who suggested 20x multipliers has found that your idea would work.

As a human, as a member of this community, and as a member of society, empathy and sympathy are two skills that are vital. Put yourself into other people's perspectives. Quite frankly, It's quite amusing to see your attempts at retorts. You simply cannot argue with logic and patterns. There are plenty of people who have made valid points on why this whole idea won't work. Okay, this makes a lot more sense. You're probably a newer player who hasn't done all of the content. Memoir (An extension of the tutorial quests, literally has a quest where they show you how to use nao stones (by requiring you to die). Some quests are able to be done while you are dead (Such as G19, where the knights attack the girg. You can lay there, dead, while the knights finish the girg off for you).

I'm quite an old player; I started back in 2012, about 7 years ago. My first character was a human, I had no idea what to do as the whole talent system was overwhelming. However, I started a new account and was able to hit 15k in about 5 years. It was horrible, yet fun. I grinded life skills for months. The whole gameplay derives from grinding your skills and then using those skills to get rewards, whether it be SM rewards or being able to craft high quality equipment or gears. I've done most (about 90%) of the content in this game, if not more. I'm sure Blissfulkill and others on this thread also have experience with this game.

The point that Blissfulkill brought up is quite interesting. Why not take permadeath into your own hands? If you want to do permadeath, enforce it upon yourself. If there's one student out of 1,000 that wants to take a music theory class, the school shouldn't have to create a class specifically for that student; rather, that student should begin an independent study. The concept is the same. If only very few want a permadeath, they should just do the concept Blissfulkill suggested rather than having a whole server created specifically to please those few people. It just doesn't make sense business-wise. Costs of running a server that can run the game, (not even mentioning smooth gameplay & capabilities with player amounts) can be upwards of thousands of dollars a month. This also doesn't mention events, future updates to content/gameplay, or even a team to change/maintain the new server. Assuming that Nexon would make most of their money from the normal servers, I think it's safe to assume that Considering the costs of the server heavily outweigh any potential sales from the permadeath server (because of its diminished/restricted sales on items). It simply is not plausible for Nexon to go into this knowing that they cannot make as much money.

Plus, I'm going to add that who would actually want to put time, money, or effort on grinding a permadeath character rather than just doing the same on their regular server character? If I want R1 Magic craft, I'm going to get it on my main rather than on a character that will lose it upon death. It's really a simple concept. Saying that "if people want it, they'll go for it". Well, considering that a lot of skills require a lot of training to effectively train, such as Magic Craft/Engineering, it simply isn't worth it. Monsters in the gather zones (Mutant man-eating plants that would probably easily ohko an average character with its chain cast fireball) make the risk not worth the reward.

Tailoring and Smithing have manuals that are either expensive or difficult to obtain.

Boss raids would be empty. These monsters can destroy most players with attacks that can insta-deadly (Sylvan Dragon's dark shockwave, WD/BD's Stomping movements). Sure, they provide a lot of great items, and gold, it simply isn't worth the risk. What's the point of getting a nice enchant if you can't even use it or reset your character trying to get it? Raiding is an important concept in the game. Some items are raid-exclusive. I bet you'll say "Well if they don't raid, they won't get it."
Well, there are quests (such as Lightning rod's "Thunder BD 50 times" or Innes' "Participate in Avalon raid" quest, as well as meteor strike's "Attack a Dragon" training) that require you to participate in raids. Materials are obtained from raids that greatly assist in training life skills (Such as manuals).

EDIT: SQUIRES, a concept.
What about squires? When you die, do they reset too? And festia? Those rewards are unobtainable elsewhere, do you lose them?
Titles, 2nd title coupons will lose value if they're reset.
The new techniques have requirements. One of them is to survive an attack over 1,000 for one of the titles (Who Transcended Death). That's super risky.

Overall, this concept, in an attempt to liberate players from the "regular mabi contraints", heavily LIMITS their gameplay. I doubt it'll be enjoyable.

Helsa wrote: »

Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

At this point, yes. I agree with Helsa. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. The person behind this idea is so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that they're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

This ain't it.
(The whole concept, that is)

@Cho
You can't ignore these facts forever. If your idea ACTUALLY got implemented right this second, I guarantee you that it's going to fall apart sooner or later.



Edit: This was primarily directed at Cho. I am in complete agreement with those who think that it would overall be a bad idea.

Cho wrote: »

I also keep saying that having 1 character on a permadeath server does not drain other servers. That's like saying having Taillteann Shadow Missions drains Tara Shadow Missions.

Firstly, I'm not even going to mention how horrible this analogy is; There is no incentive for participating in the permadeath server; there are incentives for doing the shadow missions (Dailies). These missions also add to the game.

Secondly, The idea of a permadeath server is implausible. Nexon simply won't allow for it because how else would they make money? If the goal is to make it less Pay2Win and more Play2Win, Nexon would be confined to pushing out only cosmetic items for the server; however, upon death, these items would be removed. Therefore, it would make it less appealing to players. Who wants to buy cosmetics for NX only to lose it upon death? Who would pay for premium/VIP? The items/bonuses are minimized on these servers.
Thirdly, You said that "Why would people be doing the harder generations" on the server in the first place. Well, if the whole point, as you claim, is to challenge the player, why wouldn't they? The benefits of successfully doing the generations could unlock transformations or titles that can benefit the player. At some point, people will reach these generations, die, and then ragequit. Simple concept. "Tweaking" the game's difficulty to match this (removing 1hko attacks) would be nearly impossible; Nexon doesn't have the time nor energy to push these out. They take months to fix bugs sometimes.

Fourthly,

I assume the average forum users by NO MEANS represent the majority of the Mabinogi playerbase so even if I get dissent here if it's the same 3 points being answered over and over, it means that there isn't much wrong with my idea. Honestly the thing to do would be to add your own ideas (not you Draech specifically but everyone that has been replying) or discuss what could be done to improve the idea rather than to keep saying it won't work because Nexon.

This just shows how much you truly cannot see the presented points. Sure, you bolded some words, used bullets. Great. Doesn't at all make your points any more valid.

You would know what you're getting into so laggy internet would not be an excuse for death

Don't play on the Permadeath server when your ISP is giving you lag spikes. Don't play on the Permadeath server on wifi unless you're that gutsy. It's the fun of a permadeath server to see how far you can go.

So, you're telling us that if we get a random lag spike, it's suddenly our fault? As if we can decide when we get a lag spike? Sounds like you're confining the server to those who basically live in Cali or have the best internet. Some lag isn't even preventable because server-side lag is a thing. If Nexon has a bad day lag-wise and a lot of people die due to server-side lag, what can they do? They're not going to roll-back because that would outrage the people who didn't die; at the same time, they'll get backlash for server-side lag.

Monetization and profit are up to Nexon to decide.

You simply cannot expect to suggest a controversial idea, have people point out that this is a lacking feature, and then defend it. "Letting Nexon" figure it out won't cut it. If you wanted to defend your position that this WILL work, we need the receipts. We need the planned idea that you so vehemently defend.

while reforges are powerful, they aren't necessary. You can do a lot without reforges and people not buying reforges on a hardcore server wouldn't stop people from buying them on the other 4 servers.

Well, unless people are going to dedicate MONTHS/YEARS of time and effort to the server, It's unlikely that they can parallel the stats needed to actually take on quests. Assuming that life skills are undesirable due to the high risk, where will people get stats? Life skills offer plenty of stats and profits to be earned. However, the risk simply isn't enough for the reward.
People spend days, weeks, and even months training skills. That's even with AP training implemented. Imagine how difficult it will be without rebirth potions or available AP. You were the one saying that people would split their time equally between Permadeath and regular servers. This is unlikely as most people would probably lose interest within a month of release. Patterns don't lie. People hardly enter Festia. Older raids such as sandworm are a joke. People realize when risk is worth the reward; this simply isn't it.

Furthermore, I haven't even begun to swoop into the idea of currency circulation in-game or how people could bypass these ideas (Trading items to another person to prevent loss upon death, farming bots, etc). As you can see by the responses, this simply isn't a good idea by the standards of modern Mabi. I cannot fathom further explaining this; you only understand a perspective when you try to understand. I've tried to see the idea through your eyes, but alas, it simply won't work due to many reasons. With the content coming out on these servers and a server merge being pushed for by the population, Nexon would most likely not implement this idea. Let's tackle one issue at a time.

THICCthighssavelives wrote: »

Taming and transformation can be merged into the same system that uses some sort of 'monster familiarity' as it's backbone, where your success chance at both taming and transformation will depend on your familiarity with the monster. When you don't know anything about the monster you can only tame it (peaceful method) or capture it (combat method), which increases your knowledge of the monster. As you gain knowledge, you can possess it's body, gain small combat bonuses against that monster type, or even increase or decrease its spawn rate in its spawn area. Once you have expert knowledge of a monster you can attempt to transform into it.

The transformation window already has a big list of monsters. It can be repurposed for the more generalized monster familiarity system. What do you think?

That would be ridiculously broken. The mabi Monster spawn servers have crashed several times in the past, so incorporating this would probably bug or slow that down as well.
Also what would happen if two or more players tried to influence the spawn of an area?

Hardmuscle wrote: »

Sherri wrote: »

I'm actually hoping that they consider increasing the maximum size of an uploaded picture (100x100).
I mean, I wouldn't be sad if they didn't but at the same time I would be pretty happy.

@Sherri

They already did this. ~ Our current pictures are 200 x 200.

Just like this one I made the other day to tease @Faybal with .. lol...



It would take all of 5 seconds for Nexon to add this to their collection.

I NEED NOW

Ellisya wrote: »

I just got goose bump (in bad way) after watching terrible AD video up there....
who made these....

I actually cringed, since the game would actually require you to either grind or pay to actually do anything listed in the video...