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Suggestion: New Skill Tab - Psychic

TimefallTimefall
Mabinogi Rep: 1,505
Posts: 146
Member
edited December 30, 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions
I revoke my suggestion. It's not what the players of Mabinogi want.

Comments

  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,575
    Posts: 290
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    edited December 29, 2020
    Hey, man.. A+ for Effort. I'm with you on a bare-hand talent. It'd be a creative introduction to the game.

    But, I see again here a bit of things forgotten about our combat system. This will likely just be used for utility with life skills (picking stuff up within a range and protecting oneself from being attacked in Hillwen while farming). This is clearly not intended to do damage, so what situations would it be more efficient to be worried more about not getting hit instead of just clearing the content quickly and smoothly? At first glance, it looks like a way -- or an excuse -- to give weight to being allowed into parties running high-difficulty content, but without doing the work of actually developing stats, skills, or enchanting their gear.
    Telekinesis: ... Bosses would require 2-3 players at rank 1 to bind at 100%, and some bosses wouldn't reach 100% even from a full party.
    This sounds like Shadow Bind. Boss knockdown and enemy restriction became too powerful to be allowed in later content as they negated most challenge from any enemy. They came up with something more complex through Tech Duinn so as to allow their use in some missions, but bosses still remain immune for this reason. Even the attempt to reduce the impact of this kind of skill by allowing cancellation after player knockdown is useless when you have bosses like Song of Grief in the game, who don't have minions.
    Haunting Illusion: ... At rank 1, the illusion will have about 300 protection and 600 defense, making it at least as tough as a divine linked pet.
    Then, why not just link a pet? A pet can at least fight alongside you.
    Force Push: ... click a spot on the ground (as you would for anchor rush), and the targeted enemy will be flung to that position, treated as a knockdown and filling the knockdown gauge.

    Modern content involves a lot of mobbing. Wouldn't it be more efficient to just equip a chain and use Spinning Slasher or some bars and use Act 6: Crisis? In what situation would we need to move precisely one enemy? There's bosses w/enemies ho are immune to a lot of movement-forcing skills, too. This would be useless on them.
    Shared Fate: Gives a status to a party member, and can also be used on pets in the same party. The status can be given to more than one party member at once. Whenever the party member would take damage, the user of this skill takes the damage instead, and the user's defense and protection is used for damage calculations.

    So, take Divine Link's concept, expand it to player-to-player, and then allow people to add up to two Vital Surges worth of artificial HP to someone though using their party members as HP fodder (any party count above 4 is already breaking this) while allowing sharing of buffs like Bone Chip, ultimately creating some kind of ridiculously protected super-powered Milletian machine? Rethink this one.
    Mental Boundary: Creates a large circle around a target player, in the same manner as Tenacious Taunt, which slowly shrinks until it is gone. Monsters cannot cross through the circle. Monsters on the outside of the circle will not be able to enter, but can attack through the circle with projectiles.

    So, just immediately become immune to 90% of Tech Duinn rooms and Phantasm rooms on a whim? Rethink this one.
    ---
    How does all of this fit into the realm of reforges, enchants, special upgrades, and effects from bard buffs? What about erg? What would compel the average player to seriously consider using these skills over just chain sweeping a room in Alby Advanced Hard Mode and moving on to the next room? What would compel a player to seriously consider using these skills when Techniques like Iron Will, Dampen Shock, Blunting Field, and Vital Surge exist and at convenient access? When you're a giant with over 700 Defense, why would you care for any of these effects when you can tap "Defense" and reduce everything to 1 damage, while drawing aggro to yourself via Taunt? What use would this serve in situations where you're not in a party?
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,505
    Posts: 146
    Member
    edited December 30, 2020
    I was wrong to suggest re-introducing strategy. Reducing a players ability to a single stat that can be increased drastically without any experience is the simplest way to handle things. If anything other than damage mattered, it would confuse too many people and Mabinogi would lose players. Things are fine as they are.
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,575
    Posts: 290
    Member
    edited December 30, 2020
    Timefall wrote: »
    I was wrong to suggest re-introducing strategy. Reducing a players ability to a single stat that can be increased drastically without any experience is the simplest way to handle things. If anything other than damage mattered, it would confuse too many people and Mabinogi would lose players. Things are fine as they are.

    Just answer the questions. :^)

    If you can't answer them, the issue is that your idea has problems and you need to rethink things. Those questions are fundamental to discussion about improving our combat system's function; you're literally suggesting a complete destruction of what already exists in favor of completely rebuilding it with an entirely new concept alien to our game's structure and almost completely taken from another game's system, but without even explaining what's actually wrong or bad about the current Mabinogi combat system as it stands.

    If anything, your suggestion that the game is "reducing ability to a single stat that can be increased drastically without any experience" shows that you don't understand Mabinogi combat at all, right there. You didn't help your idea at all with this response. If you can't explain how making yourself immune to all physical attacks or completely immobilizing a boss promotes "strategy," you're missing a fundamental understanding of what "strategy" is. RIP thread.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,175
    Posts: 9,176
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    Timefall wrote: »
    I was wrong to suggest re-introducing strategy. Reducing a players ability to a single stat that can be increased drastically without any experience is the simplest way to handle things. If anything other than damage mattered, it would confuse too many people and Mabinogi would lose players. Things are fine as they are.

    Hey calm down there. I think a psychic talent is an interesting concept for this game. I wish I could of read your suggestion. Plus I have heard of way worse and really stupid suggestions on here. Learn to accept some criticism eh?
    Momma_Sophie
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,769
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    Crimsọn wrote: »
    I think a psychic talent is an interesting concept for this game. I wish I could of read your suggestion.

    I saw the original post. Ms. Sophie has quoted a good chunk of it. When I saw it, I was reminded of AD&D Psionics.
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Learn to accept some criticism eh?

    I'll do the Canadianing around here missy!
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,505
    Posts: 146
    Member
    ...you're literally suggesting a complete destruction of what already exists in favor of completely rebuilding it with an entirely new concept alien to our game's structure and almost completely taken from another game's system

    Not from another game. This suggestion was based on the gameplay from Mabinogi's beginnings, and adjusted to the game's current power level. I had actually typed out a very lengthy response to your concerns, but as I was typing, I realized you hadn't really read my complete suggestion, and were responding with generic criticism to the first sentence of each paragraph. So, I decided that you're posting only to antagonize me, and a response wasn't warranted. I respond now only because others have shown up, and your out-of-context quotes and wild assertions are misleading them.
    If anything, your suggestion that the game is "reducing ability to a single stat that can be increased drastically without any experience" shows that you don't understand Mabinogi combat at all, right there.

    With the exception of a few apostle raids, the absolute best option to every fight is to deal as much damage as you can as fast as you can. Skills rank easily and the primary difference in damage comes from enchants and upgrades. Players grow stronger by making money, then buying gear. Knowledge and Tactics don't contribute anything to a fight.
    If you can't explain how making yourself immune to all physical attacks or completely immobilizing a boss

    Here's a good example showing that you hadn't read my post. Not a single skill I proposed makes the player "immune to all physical attacks", or even does anything similar. As for immobilizing a boss, Pummel can already accomplish that. 2 players can easily alternate pummel and pin a boss, like the cyclops in RAHM, indefinitely.

    Honestly, I'm not sure how, but you managed to suggest that some of these skills are both useless and over-powered at the same time. -_-"
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,769
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    Timefall wrote: »
    Not from another game. This suggestion was based on the gameplay from Mabinogi's beginnings, and adjusted to the game's current power level. I had actually typed out a very lengthy response to your concerns, but as I was typing, I realized you hadn't really read my complete suggestion, and were responding with generic criticism to the first sentence of each paragraph. So, I decided that you're posting only to antagonize me, and a response wasn't warranted. I respond now only because others have shown up, and your out-of-context quotes and wild assertions are misleading them.

    Since this discussion is playing out in public, if you could put your original post back in it's original form we can all be the judge as to whether they were simply trolling you or not. In the mean time it's just one persons word versus another.
    Timefall wrote: »
    With the exception of a few apostle raids, the absolute best option to every fight is to deal as much damage as you can as fast as you can. Skills rank easily and the primary difference in damage comes from enchants and upgrades. Players grow stronger by making money, then buying gear. Knowledge and Tactics don't contribute anything to a fight.

    This can sometimes be true. A lot of the content, of late, has had mob agro-control strategies artificially nerfed in order to make it "more challenging" for end-of-gamers. This is a sign of Nexon being bankrupt of new ideas. But it is not always the case. For weaker player characters "Knowledge and Tactics" will allow them to succeed against challenges they would otherwise be too weak for if the limit of their game playing abilities is "give hits, take hits, dish out more than you take." For example:
    As for immobilizing a boss, Pummel can already accomplish that. 2 players can easily alternate pummel and pin a boss, like the cyclops in RAHM, indefinitely.

  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,575
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    Lol.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,175
    Posts: 9,176
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    I think a psychic talent is an interesting concept for this game. I wish I could of read your suggestion.

    I saw the original post. Ms. Sophie has quoted a good chunk of it. When I saw it, I was reminded of AD&D Psionics.
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Learn to accept some criticism eh?

    I'll do the Canadianing around here missy!

    I don't know what you are talking aboot.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,769
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    I think a psychic talent is an interesting concept for this game. I wish I could of read your suggestion.

    I saw the original post. Ms. Sophie has quoted a good chunk of it. When I saw it, I was reminded of AD&D Psionics.
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Learn to accept some criticism eh?

    I'll do the Canadianing around here missy!

    I don't know what you are talking aboot.

    Oh, don't be a hoser, eh.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,175
    Posts: 9,176
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    I think a psychic talent is an interesting concept for this game. I wish I could of read your suggestion.

    I saw the original post. Ms. Sophie has quoted a good chunk of it. When I saw it, I was reminded of AD&D Psionics.
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Learn to accept some criticism eh?

    I'll do the Canadianing around here missy!

    I don't know what you are talking aboot.

    Oh, don't be a hoser, eh.

    Don't start a kerfuffle. You sound like you need a mickey.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,769
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    I think a psychic talent is an interesting concept for this game. I wish I could of read your suggestion.

    I saw the original post. Ms. Sophie has quoted a good chunk of it. When I saw it, I was reminded of AD&D Psionics.
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Learn to accept some criticism eh?

    I'll do the Canadianing around here missy!

    I don't know what you are talking aboot.

    Oh, don't be a hoser, eh.

    Don't start a kerfuffle. You sound like you need a mickey.

    Lady, I just HAD a mickey; it's New-years Day! :)