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Why do people just reject good ideas? :/
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He is right. People have opinions on whether it is good or bad, useful or if it is even needed. Thinking you have a good idea that it should be shielded from criticism is just hubris disguised as unbiased logic, when the bias is to ones self. He is correct. Whether or not those opinions are substantiated by fact does not preclude that people will disagree.
I kind of doubt people on a forum would not write why it is not a good idea, seeing as that is the purpose, something that quite a few people have done in this thread.
A matter of necessity is up for debate anyway.
I'm not saying the idea is not up for criticism, on the contrary. I'm saying that it's an objective fact that is would only help. Regardless of anybody's opinion, it's objective the fact that it would not be bad/harmful. There is no way in which it would be harmful.
As such, there's no matter of subjectivity it's it's usefulness.
Now I might be wasting my time explaining these concepts, so I'll stop trying to.
Nobody said why it's "not a good idea", they just pointed out it's limitations and offered better ideas. If you think that, because of some of these limitations, it makes it a bad idea, then I'm sorry to point this out to you, but you're plain wrong.
Why lag could be bad for only a talent displayed? People in this thread already told you that most of them removes almost everything (mini effects, other effects, Name, Party, minimizing nearby players).
And this is not MY opinion, is a fact. A fact based on the status of the server and the objective informations regarding player (computers, distance with the server and connections)
You know an opinion CAN NOT be objective? It's an opinion, not an objective fact.
I cannot imagine it being useful for seasoned raiders, who are likely to pick up after a few times, but I usually do not have a problem attaching names on the squad overhead to people in the area, but perhaps that is just me. However, its usefulness can only be utilized by players that want it and need it, and I think that for a subtle change, it is not quite necessary enough for me to consider if only a few people will bother to use it. I also dislike the idea of it not being able to be toggled off.
That being said, it does not seem like quite a big change to warrant that much code, but I am not sure.
He was probably referring to that it was his opinion, and that is a fact, to highlight the nature of whatever argument I am not going to read, because screw it.
So in a sense, the fact was that it was how he thinks it should be, proven by his responses.
That being said, I am not sure what the point of this was.
In that case, it's not harmful. It's not any more harmful than any other talent icon, and if you can't use them, then the idea still isn't harmful because you wouldn't be using it anyway, which it would still be helpful to those that use it.
You didn't argue that the idea was bad, you're arguing that the titles lag some people and they remove them. This doesn't make the idea bad, as I said, if you hide your icon, I can still see yours, so it can still help me, while not being harmful to you (if you use it) since not seeing your normal talent icon is the same for you as not seeing the role specific talent icon.
To sum it up: if you use the idea but hide your icon, it still helps those who don't hide the icons while NOT harming you at all.
That's it. It's objectively helpful.
Yup, sorry, that was a typo xD
I edited it, I meant ot say "it's my subjective opinion"
Thanks for pointing it out to me, I bet that made me look like a pretty big idiot that has no idea what he's talking about xD
Yes you're right, it won't be useful for players that already know what they're doing, and I've acknowledged this , but for newbies or people that lack organisation, it's a good idea.
I don't think it would be that hard to code in something like this, or even better, just color the names of players a certain color depending on their team, since there's already name color changes in the game , this way would actually be better now that I think about it
That is the point I am making. Only veterans at this point bother to run it. In any case, I doubt that newbies are on a whole far less intelligent to work together and attach roles to names on the spot. Most of it is knowing what to do in the first place. It may help, but my argument lays in how little the group would utilize it. That being said, it is a pretty trifle change to implement as well.
Yep, so....
I'm with the "learn to read" guy on this. while its not the most positive thing to reply with hes basically telling you to pay attention which is all you really have to do. Girgash is simple when done right, just group your respective people in the raid party and pay attention. The last thing we need are people following talent icons instead of names or other better thought out methods, this is how 3 people end up grouped on 1 shielder and Yeesus knows those shenanigans get old quick.
Secondly calling someone stupid because they don't respond to your idea in a positive way is a great way get everyone to ignore you indefinitely.
And yes, you've got to be pretty freaking stupid to reply to an idea like this with "learn to read". First of all, reading skills are not the problem, reading their name isn't the hard part, the hard part is making out the minuscule letters in all the commotion with the crappy contrast, everything flashing and everybody moving everywhere. All the pets everywhere whose names are "John Doe's Doggie" popping in and out of existence aren't really helping this case either. Oh did I mention multiple names overlapping and not being able to make out any of them? None of this is a problem if you use the talent icon as a guide, if they overlap you can still make out rather easily the icon.
Secondly, it DOES take a stupid person to say something like that. You're not accepting the idea, not rejecting it, not giving constructive criticism (or any kind of criticism for that matter), not giving a reason, it's basically an irrelevant statement that serves no purpose whatsoever other than burning a few calories typing it...
(Literally the third response in the thread)
(This reponse is also on the first page)
While distinguishing between people in a party of randomers may not be the worst idea, using talents for it definitely is. There's no switching talents, nor does it help the confusion for those who HAVE to toggle these things off because of the lag. On the topic of the last thing I quoted, red is a horribly expensive color. Instead, replace it with yellow/gold because it's very, very inexpensive, at least on Alexina. Or if nothing else, pink, because the saga viewing coupons drop them like mad anyway. Now I know not everyone likes those colors, but they're easily accessible. Upside? If someone using a crappy computer like my old one WAS to be faced with colored robes, maximum minimization STILL SHOWS COLORS. Ergo, it's the best choice, because robes are also cheap and if you buy different kinds they can be stored in the dressing room.
Downside? Not everyone can afford even this, or perhaps they can't have them on the fly. But if the majority of one server sticks to the general idea, there will only be a handful of people without robes joining each time, thus minimizing the confusion for EVERYONE. Anyway, I agree that this is not even necessary for most parts, because I have faith people are fairly quick to pick up what their role does. If you have healers, it doesn't even matter until you're doing hard mode, unless you're insanely bad as a whole, but then nothing can help you. Therefore, in a way, I can agree with the learn to read statement. But instead of learning to read, more like..get used to your part. There's no shame in being inexperienced and people NEED to be nice enough to guide you through your first experiences without being salty, so that's the community's responsibility towards the new players or people with lacking pattern recognition.
Likewise, if that idea were to become a thing, naturally everyone joining for the first time should be nicely warmed up to the concept of how things are done, instead of being shouted at and called stupid. There are nicer ways. I don't like running public runs because of the potentially elitist and toxic atmosphere, or everyone suddenly deciding to do the pacifist run without actually letting people know, so I guess it's whatever to me.
- Can only switch it once every 24h. Well then, it's useful once, but it still IS useful.
- Most people know where to go. No they don't, and this is also not aimed at them.
- Some people minimise. Then this won't affect them anyway and it will help those who use it and aren't minimised. Also you're not seeing names in that case anyway.
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"using talents for it definitely is."
- Why? Because you can do it only once? If you already did it once that day, you just say so and we're not going with it anymore. Not that hard tbh.
"nor does it help the confusion for those who HAVE to toggle these things off because of the lag"
- No, but it does help the others, and as I said it doesn't HURT those who have to switch them off.
Robes are a better idea I agree, but still people are incredibly lazy and even with the help of the dressing room, most of them couldn't be arsed to do it.
"But instead of learning to read, more like..get used to your part"
- Well the thing is, as I've said, it's not my part that I'm worried about. I constantly had other shields running into me while leaving spikes and blades defenseless, and when I don't have anybody near me, I don't know whether the nearest person is a shield or not.
Also I never called anybody stupid ingame, just here on the forums, and it wasn't personal to anybody, I don't even remember who that genius was lol
And yes, I'll repeat, replying with "learn to read" in this context is a sign of stupidity. I've explained it in detail before xD
To be honest you don't even need to color code all roles, just the shields, because for you as a shield, you don't really care if you're shielding a spike and a blade, or 2 spikes or 2 blades,
Ideally, the title icons are better in some regards, since it doesn't occupy any inventory and everybody has access to it off the bat.
The robe idea is actually a good idea, even if people limit their graphics.
The color of the robe will persist as an indicator even if all characters are minimized thus helping reduce lag significantly due to less visual strain.
In the end there really are no drawbacks with robes. It has no limiter except for inventory space which isn't much of a big problem if you have others like the leader willing to use their space to hold the robes for their party member.
EVEN THEN, in the event of forming a party, all the shields can EASILY purchase a cruces robe at the cost of a measly 2k gold at the same time OF the same color. It's not a problem of affordability in that way.
Then you can throw away the robe or whatever if you are done with it, or resell it. It's not that much of a big deal to implement it.
It takes less work for Nexon and less work for the players to find their nearest shield regardless or not you are a pro or a newbie.
Even players that know what they are doing can get lost sometimes. These things just act as an aid whether you need it or not.
The players should be able to create systems on their own so that the company itself can focus on other possibly bigger projects.
I minimize the names because it helps with the lag, since I usually run normals. I just tend to memorize what the shielders look like and just track them inside the mission.
Regarding the issues with shielders, talk to them or get your raid leader to. Shields are the line of defense and they're crucial to starting the chain to bring Gir down. If you're frustrated about it, chances are so are your fellow raiders. Communication is key here. If someone isn't doing their job, they need to know so they can get better. Better raiders mean you can advance to more difficult runs and get better rewards.
The cruces robe of the shielder can be traded to the next just as easily to maintain order.
If Communication is a weakness and therefore indicators can act as a way to take care of that.
Not everyone is able to communicate either they are new and shy or that they are too busy doing their roles.
Even if everyone communicates, mistakes are bound to happen where people run around frantically looking for a shield and are too slow.
Everyone is at least somewhat confused as to how things worked on the firsts runs it's natural, but I doubt it takes a lot of explanation to look for the colored robed person to be protected by.
In the end the discussion is going to be whether or not this system will help or not.
The title idea is very faulty, that huge limiter of time really gets in the way.(period)
^^ this. Also, as said before, you can only change it once a day. What of the people who already have changed it? What of the people who don't want to change their display? What of the people who minimize to reduce lag? People have already stated this previous. Also, I believe it'd be more efficient to instead just have an understanding of who is doing what and making a plan(the robes would work, too, but I don't know how you'd get people to agree. They like looking shiny), rather than trying to get everyone to agree to change their talent titles.
I basically just parroted everyone else. Also, it's not even necessarily because "people are lazy" and don't want to wear a robe. Maybe they want to enjoy the way their character looks. It's Mabinogi. People are like that. Well, I'm sure in any mmo people are like that. If someone is paying for style tab, or don't wear armour in favor of clothing, they probably care alot about their character looking nice. I know, I know, "could it kill you to just wear a robe for once in a combat situation?" I think that too. But alot of people won't. They value their looks.
Communication for the most part should occur before the runs because of the fact you're kept busy. I also just find the robe aspect to just be rather odd, but I've run enough raids to where the stuff that OP is complaining about doesn't happen all that often.
What server are you on? I'm wondering if it's a server problem or a specific group of new/uncoordinated people.
It will take time before nexon can fully implement that. Looking at the progress and speed of updates that NA is receiving something like a revamp on the divine raid system will take months to years to implement(1mo - 999999years).
It sounds easy to implement in terms of coding, I mean they can literally copy and paste the code they use. But I'm a little skeptical still.