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A Player forgiveness day

DragonB0yDragonB0y
Mabinogi Rep: 205
Posts: 4
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
An event where banned player may have a chance to come back and prove they can be proper players of the game. I noticed other games such as AQ3D Has this every now and then where they essentially wipe the slate for all players once to let them prove they can better them selves and the community. It would be interesting to see how many people would come back after such an event it may get the servers to come alive again i was sad when i logged in the other day and seen how u populated areas of the game are now compared to only a few months ago, and maybe give them a title that states probation that after so many days will go away and let the players pick a different title to use.
AscalonZX

Comments

  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    I don't think there's a single person who was permabanned on their first non-malicious offense.

    In my opinion, you shouldn't just be automatically 'forgiven' because you couldn't screw over a community further, while you weren't here.
    THICCthighssaveliveseikoden
  • DragonB0yDragonB0y
    Mabinogi Rep: 205
    Posts: 4
    Member
    I don't think there's a single person who was permabanned on their first non-malicious offense.

    In my opinion, you shouldn't just be automatically 'forgiven' because you couldn't screw over a community further, while you weren't here.
    That's what the title is for and if that isn't enough maybe have them have to submit a proper apology before even being able to get into the game. In the letter they admit to what they did and accept that they did it.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    edited September 26, 2018
    DragonB0y wrote: »
    I don't think there's a single person who was permabanned on their first non-malicious offense.

    In my opinion, you shouldn't just be automatically 'forgiven' because you couldn't screw over a community further, while you weren't here.
    That's what the title is for and if that isn't enough maybe have them have to submit a proper apology before even being able to get into the game. In the letter they admit to what they did and accept that they did it.

    Not that I disagree with second chances, but I see a few issues;
    If they did it once, they could do it again.
    Now that they've been alienated/isolated, they have even less to lose than if they had played for that entire period of time.
    WE LITERALLY HAVE PEOPLE RETURN TO TROLL (forums and in-game) after being kicked/banned for the exact same reason.
    There's unlikely to be any empirical evidence that they've changed/bettered themselves.
    Apologies can be insincere.
    People can go through the process just to screw with people some more.


    Don't get me wrong, I know that there'll be people out there who deserve it, but they're also the people who are probably willing to start again from scratch just to have a new reputation (in my experience).

    Now, to play DA to myself, I realize that the trolls can also just make new chars to troll again, and that people who play merely to troll won't care if they lose material possessions; people in ARK:Survival Evolved would raid everyone, get wiped off, then spend 24hrs grinding for gear and then doing it all over again.

    If there was a 'hey we hope you're over it and a contributing member of the community now' system in place, it would have to be VERY heavily policed to be successful in my opinion, and that's why I'm somewhat hesitant of this idea. I'm not against time-delayed bans or 'marks' determining who/what a player was, but I feel like the latter would really prevent them from being able to get back into the swing of things, plus they could always just get their position back and then do ~unsavoury~ (but not bannable) actions.


    My overall point/feeling is that if you broke the rules MULTIPLE times and have been corrected, shown rationale, and given the benefit of the doubt, and then STILL act out, then you can get lost.

    I understand that not being a victim of unjustifiable/biased persecution is not sufficient evidence for saying that it doesn't exist, but I think I'm also one of the few who seems to think the wave of 'warnings' for spamming a thread with a quote chain was reasonable.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    Seems like too work for moderators. I'd rather if initially they gave out 1 or 2 year long bans in the first place. That way the forgiveness is automated, but it gives enough time for banned players to reflect on their actions then forget about mabi for a while.
    BronzebreakDragonB0y
  • BlortadBlortad
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,490
    Posts: 251
    Member
    It depends on the offense. Most of the bans that happened in the last few years are likely due to malicious behavior of some kind. Those people should remain banned, but there are some exceptions I think should be made to this. Who here was around long enough to remember the old days coupon code gold dupe glitch? For those who don't, basically there was a bug where you could infinitely duplicate gold bags. Lots of people exploited this. After it was patched out, there was an extensive investigation into this bug and the people who exploited it. A massive list of players were banned that amounted to something insane like 1/3 of the overall player base. This was, at this point, almost a decade ago I think, if not at least 5 or 6 years ago. Given that there haven't been any such bugs in quite some time and exploitation of such things is much less of a problem overall, I think the people banned from that incident and any similar incidents such as the Dragon Meteor all over Dunbarton thing and the item theft via equipment view think should be given a second chance. None of the tools and bugs used for those kinds of hacking and exploitation exist or work anymore, so the odds of those same players trying to hack or bug to exploit the game again are slim. The things I speak of happened way back when more then half of all Ruairis channels were constantly labeled busy, and 1 or 2 at a time were often even full. I think the mass bans that have occurred in the past over things that have been resolved now are partly responsible for some servers low populations for sure. I don't think it we would see full channels on low population servers as a result, but it might bolster numbers enough to at least bring the popular shopping channels on each server back up to busy status. It might ever attract more people then expected since many people I knew at the time who werent banned quit promptly after the mass ban because most or all of the other people they played with got banned, leaving the people who played for the social aspect of the game little reason to log on anymore. If some peoples friends get unbanned and return, they might return as well.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    edited September 26, 2018
    I was permabanned on the forums for around 5 years. People do change. It's called finishing puberty. And getting a job.
    KensamaofmariJazmynSherri
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    I was permabanned on the forums for around 5 years. People do change. It's called finishing puberty. And getting a job.

    Oh for sure, I don't disagree.

    That being said, if your main enjoyment of a game comes from antagonizing others and Achieving/Killing (according to Bartle's taxonomy) at any or all costs, your behaviour will remain the same afterwards, perhaps even becoming veiled to sabotaging actions that aren't outright bannable/against the rules.

    I am 100% up for forgiving people, but I think they have to prove it and I don't know how that could be done when they're forcibly removed from the community, and we only ever see what they want us to see.
    Jazmyneikoden
  • I guess what TC (Topic Creator) means by proving their worth is by giving back to the community while being under surveillance kinda like Probation I guess. But if they did something wrong 3 times during the watch they just go back to being banned i don't know.
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    Dragonboy joins Sep 25, his first forum post is this thread. Ascalon joins Sep 26th, makes the above reply as his first forum post and likes Dragonboy's opening post. Hmmm
    Gretaeikoden
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    edited September 27, 2018
    Dragonboy joins Sep 25, his first forum post is this thread. Ascalon joins Sep 26th, makes the above reply as his first forum post and likes Dragonboy's opening post. Hmmm

    896.jpg
    I was also under the impression that the OP has a... personal interest in this idea.

    Like I said, I'm not against it but I don't think they're likely to create more work for themselves by having to babysit people, so that a few will return.
    eikoden
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    Can't be as bad as forum bots.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    Can't be as bad as forum bots.

    Things that make spam/ad posts? Haven't seen those for awhile.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    Can't be as bad as forum bots.

    Things that make spam/ad posts? Haven't seen those for awhile.

    And hopefully not ever again.
  • AsurielAsuriel
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,960
    Posts: 67
    Member
    I mean, while second chances are a good thing, people who used their computer knowledge to not only hurt Nexon but the players really shouldn't be allowed back.
    From black robing, to not being able to trust camping tents to pake and DDOS attacks.. those were scary as they happened and it made the game hard to enjoy. Not to mention the duping. I mean, trolling and being a jerk is one thing, but digging into the game's system to ruin it for a ton of people isn't okay. And I really don't want to deal with dead NPCs again.
    Bronzebreakeikoden
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    When the internet was made, no one had ever thought of the consequences of the potential negatives of the above and there is very little that can be done to make those responsible.
    Jazmyn
  • DragonB0yDragonB0y
    Mabinogi Rep: 205
    Posts: 4
    Member
    Dragonboy joins Sep 25, his first forum post is this thread. Ascalon joins Sep 26th, makes the above reply as his first forum post and likes Dragonboy's opening post. Hmmm

    The reason is because i never had an idea for the forums and as for Ascalon he is a friend of mine i asked for support on getting my topic noticed. If you would want to speak to me directly you may but i have intent for all not just one person.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    edited September 29, 2018
    DragonB0y wrote: »
    Dragonboy joins Sep 25, his first forum post is this thread. Ascalon joins Sep 26th, makes the above reply as his first forum post and likes Dragonboy's opening post. Hmmm

    The reason is because i never had an idea for the forums and as for Ascalon he is a friend of mine i asked for support on getting my topic noticed. If you would want to speak to me directly you may but i have intent for all not just one person.

    That's fair (though admittedly, still suspicious and futile).

    I like to think that I'm for this idea, just not sure how it could be implemented easily. Coding aside, the best way for someone to say 'yes' (which is unlikely as far as suggestions go, as we've all seen) is to make it as easy for them as possible. Outlining the reason why it's needed, how it'll help, what potential problems and solutions are, how it reacts with other systems currently, why nothing fills its role, etc. Disregarding most forumers strong doubt (myself included) of any feedback being forwarded, I don't think you've presented a cohesive enough solution. Although it may not seem as such, generally when I argue against a suggestion it's not because I don'y think we need more content, but because as presented I don't think it will work/support the game.

    Like THICC and I have said, if you were to find a (relatively) easy design for this mechanic that took into account all the reasons someone may be banned, and ensuring that they can't exploit the rules because of their return, I don't think any of us would say 'no'. Most threads here seem to die because people stopped updating/refining them, and I don't think I've seen very many feedback threads that I would consider 'up to snuff' for implementation. Not that I think it's a realistic or expressly necessary goal, I think that good feedback should read close to a Game Design Document or an Operation Order.

    Maybe it's just me (and I'm not willing to check all 265 previous posts at this point, or dig up the old forums) but I like to think that no suggestion is necessarily 'bad'; generally someone believes an intended effect will occur if XYZ gets implemented, but sometimes there are better/easier ways to do it. Sometimes, the effect can come in an entirely new way, but maintain the same premise. An example would be that maybe someone feels that gameplay is too easy and boring, so they want a MegaBoss with 100% prot that can't be reduced, Advanced Heavy Stander, and 10b hp. Well, maybe what would really work is making enemies require more skill and less raw damage to beat, making combat more interesting (not necessarily harder). I don't think in that case you'd suggest adding a minigame to each attack, but having each skill have its own gimmicks/use (kind of like how Lance Counter has a short 'use' time) allows the player(s) to think more rather than just spam one/two attacks.
    Jazmyn
  • DragonB0yDragonB0y
    Mabinogi Rep: 205
    Posts: 4
    Member
    DragonB0y wrote: »
    Dragonboy joins Sep 25, his first forum post is this thread. Ascalon joins Sep 26th, makes the above reply as his first forum post and likes Dragonboy's opening post. Hmmm

    The reason is because i never had an idea for the forums and as for Ascalon he is a friend of mine i asked for support on getting my topic noticed. If you would want to speak to me directly you may but i have intent for all not just one person.

    That's fair (though admittedly, still suspicious and futile).

    I like to think that I'm for this idea, just not sure how it could be implemented easily. Coding aside, the best way for someone to say 'yes' (which is unlikely as far as suggestions go, as we've all seen) is to make it as easy for them as possible. Outlining the reason why it's needed, how it'll help, what potential problems and solutions are, how it reacts with other systems currently, why nothing fills its role, etc. Disregarding most forumers strong doubt (myself included) of any feedback being forwarded, I don't think you've presented a cohesive enough solution. Although it may not seem as such, generally when I argue against a suggestion it's not because I don'y think we need more content, but because as presented I don't think it will work/support the game.

    Like THICC and I have said, if you were to find a (relatively) easy design for this mechanic that took into account all the reasons someone may be banned, and ensuring that they can't exploit the rules because of their return, I don't think any of us would say 'no'. Most threads here seem to die because people stopped updating/refining them, and I don't think I've seen very many feedback threads that I would consider 'up to snuff' for implementation. Not that I think it's a realistic or expressly necessary goal, I think that good feedback should read close to a Game Design Document or an Operation Order.

    Maybe it's just me (and I'm not willing to check all 265 previous posts at this point, or dig up the old forums) but I like to think that no suggestion is necessarily 'bad'; generally someone believes an intended effect will occur if XYZ gets implemented, but sometimes there are better/easier ways to do it. Sometimes, the effect can come in an entirely new way, but maintain the same premise. An example would be that maybe someone feels that gameplay is too easy and boring, so they want a MegaBoss with 100% prot that can't be reduced, Advanced Heavy Stander, and 10b hp. Well, maybe what would really work is making enemies require more skill and less raw damage to beat, making combat more interesting (not necessarily harder). I don't think in that case you'd suggest adding a minigame to each attack, but having each skill have its own gimmicks/use (kind of like how Lance Counter has a short 'use' time) allows the player(s) to think more rather than just spam one/two attacks.
    The thing is that is why I made the post to start with I am hoping to get gears turning and make a better and proper way for people to get a second chance Aside from the hope and pray method.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
    Posts: 2,795
    Member
    edited September 29, 2018
    If one blackrobed someone or other similar offenses, they deserve a lifetime ban. Sorry kid, you just shouldn't have enough of an asshat to corrupt someone's character data. You know what, they deserve to die. They deserve to be grilled alive, those insipid little psychopaths.

    Sometimes, one has to live with the terrible things they have done. If one has done something so wantonly destructive, they shouldn't be allowed back in solely because of principle. People make mistakes, but then there is a jerkishness arousing out of a callousness one should not have had at any age.
    SebastianBronzebreak
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,940
    Posts: 489
    Member
    DragonB0y wrote: »
    DragonB0y wrote: »
    Dragonboy joins Sep 25, his first forum post is this thread. Ascalon joins Sep 26th, makes the above reply as his first forum post and likes Dragonboy's opening post. Hmmm

    The reason is because i never had an idea for the forums and as for Ascalon he is a friend of mine i asked for support on getting my topic noticed. If you would want to speak to me directly you may but i have intent for all not just one person.

    That's fair (though admittedly, still suspicious and futile).

    I like to think that I'm for this idea, just not sure how it could be implemented easily. Coding aside, the best way for someone to say 'yes' (which is unlikely as far as suggestions go, as we've all seen) is to make it as easy for them as possible. Outlining the reason why it's needed, how it'll help, what potential problems and solutions are, how it reacts with other systems currently, why nothing fills its role, etc. Disregarding most forumers strong doubt (myself included) of any feedback being forwarded, I don't think you've presented a cohesive enough solution. Although it may not seem as such, generally when I argue against a suggestion it's not because I don'y think we need more content, but because as presented I don't think it will work/support the game.

    Like THICC and I have said, if you were to find a (relatively) easy design for this mechanic that took into account all the reasons someone may be banned, and ensuring that they can't exploit the rules because of their return, I don't think any of us would say 'no'. Most threads here seem to die because people stopped updating/refining them, and I don't think I've seen very many feedback threads that I would consider 'up to snuff' for implementation. Not that I think it's a realistic or expressly necessary goal, I think that good feedback should read close to a Game Design Document or an Operation Order.

    Maybe it's just me (and I'm not willing to check all 265 previous posts at this point, or dig up the old forums) but I like to think that no suggestion is necessarily 'bad'; generally someone believes an intended effect will occur if XYZ gets implemented, but sometimes there are better/easier ways to do it. Sometimes, the effect can come in an entirely new way, but maintain the same premise. An example would be that maybe someone feels that gameplay is too easy and boring, so they want a MegaBoss with 100% prot that can't be reduced, Advanced Heavy Stander, and 10b hp. Well, maybe what would really work is making enemies require more skill and less raw damage to beat, making combat more interesting (not necessarily harder). I don't think in that case you'd suggest adding a minigame to each attack, but having each skill have its own gimmicks/use (kind of like how Lance Counter has a short 'use' time) allows the player(s) to think more rather than just spam one/two attacks.
    The thing is that is why I made the post to start with I am hoping to get gears turning and make a better and proper way for people to get a second chance Aside from the hope and pray method.

    Oh, by all means! I try to limit my commentary in this subforum to stimulating the conversation; as such I think it's important that you edit your original comment as necessary to more clearly reflect your intentions and rationale behind the request. I ain't your Mom though, so you do you.