I've been trying to figure this out for a while now, and unfortunately all of the advice out there focuses on newbies and early-game, so there's something I'm missing.
I've watched YouTube videos and joined raids so I've seen high-level player damage numbers. I know most late-game players deal in the range of 5000-7000 damage per hit in veteran dungeons with the occasional 30-35k crit, and some players get up to 80k crits with certain skills. Meanwhile in a veteran dungeon I hit in the 1000-2000 damage range and crit for 5000. I can't figure out how to overcome this damage hurdle.
When I've tried Googling this, reading the forums, reading Reddit posts, watching YouTube videos, and asking in-game I always get one of three answers:
- Rank up your skills (I'm already rank 1 or dan in all relevant combat skills, masteries, and unrelated skills which grant the appropriate stat buff)
- Improve your stats (I have over 1000 in every stat except luck)
- Enchant your gear (I have a handful of enchants but could admittedly improve in this regard, but I can show the math that this isn't my issue)
Here's an example damage calculation for Smash:
- Start with a fully upgraded r6 Dustin Silver Knight Sword: 34-100 damage. With 80% balance from 1000+ DEX, I average 86.8 damage
- I have 974 STR. At one max damage every 2.5 STR and one min damage every 3 STR, that adds 324.67 - 389.6
- My enchants currently grant +18 max damage
- I have a +13 max damage totem
- Rank 1 Sword Mastery adds 10 - 20 damage
- Rank 1 Combat Mastery adds 14 - 24 damage
- Using "The Guardian of the Gate" title and "Professor J" second title gives +10 and +20 max damage, respectively
- So far that totals 382.67 - 594.6
- I'm currently doing the Grandmaster quests, so I can't add in the +30 damage for Grandmaster, but 30 isn't much compared to my current
- With 80% balance, that's a net average damage of 552
- Now I use Dan 2 Smash. This skill has a 580% multiplier, plus another 1.2x multiplier for using a Two-Handed weapon
- 552 * 5.8 * 1.2 = 3842 damage per hit
- 30% of the time I get a critical hit for +150% + 42% (r6) damage
- 4085 * 2.92 = 11219 critical hit
- I assume veteran dungeon monsters (e.g. Rabbie skeletons) possess something like 200 defense and 50 protection, because in practice I see half these numbers
I then hop over to YouTube and watch someone perform a Smash, get a critical hit, and deal 37000 damage! Even if I added 100 damage with enchants (which would cost several hundred mil) I'd only add 700 damage after multipliers (2100 on crits) -- this doesn't nearly explain the 30000 gap in damage between myself and high levels.
So what am I missing? There must be some multipliers I'm not taking advantage of. Some trick to double your damage that no one seems to discuss on the forums since they're overly concerned with advising newbies to rank their skills and buy enchants.
I assume some of the difference in damage comes from defense shearing (Bone Dragon, Scooter Imp, Piercing, etc) but if I could remove 100% of the enemy's defense and protection I'd STILL be doing only 1/3rd of the damage I see people do online.
I also assume some of the difference comes from buffs. Battlefield Overture can add 30% or so, Death Mark adds another 20% or so, but I don't know which other skills I should be looking into?
I also think Techniques may have something to do with it. I haven't done G22 yet (I spend a lot of time grinding skills and playing with friends instead of focusing the story) so I don't know what powers these offer yet.
But 30% here or 20% there doesn't add up to the 200-400% bonus damage I need to keep pace with end-game. There's SOMETHING I'm missing.
Update (5 years later)
I made a full post below (bottom of page 1), but wanted to reference it here since I managed to answer my own question after more time spent mastering this game.
There are two main things that I was missing back in 2020 in order to see these "5000-7000 damage per hit":
Thing 1. More stats
Yes, back in 2020 I had dan or r1 in every skill that increased STR. But there's more things that increase STR than just your skills. You need to reach level 200 and exploration level 50, you need Grandmaster, you need totems, you need homestead figurines, you need 40k total levels for Shine of Eweca, you need a good Echostone, you need Divine Link, you need enchants, you need better titles, you need Arcana,... my STR could have easily been double what it was -- which would have doubled my damage. But I wasn't just looking for double damage, I was looking for 5x damage. So yes, there's a thing 2.
Thing 2. More buffs
In my post below I break down three types of buffs: "inherent", "permanent", and "temporary". With a bit more STR I was pushing the limit of inherent buffs. I had a really good baseline, I just needed to stack a LOT of multipliers on top of it.
* Nightbringer Warlord gives +15% Smash damage
* Smash Reforge increases the skill multiplier from 580% to 780% (effectively +35% damage)
* S50 erg gives +50 max damage (effectively +5-10%)
* Spirit (Two-Handed Sword Amplitude enhancement = +10% damage to "enemies with a debuff", including def/prot shear)
* Equipment with "Smash Enhancement" effect gives +15% Smash damage
* Battlefield Overture gives +20-60% depending on your equipment. I currently see about +40%
* Combat Power Potion gives +20%
Just these "easy" buffs increase damage by 1.15 x 1.35 x 1.05 x 1.1 x 1.15 x 1.4 x 1.2 = 3.46x damage
Add in the 2x from the extra STR and you're easily breaking that 5000-7000 damage value I was looking for... before factoring in pierce. Nightbringer Warlord has 4 base pierce, and 7 with Meteoroid! This takes the 50-ish protection those enemies have and lowers it to 15-30, multiplying your damage further!
Comments
And yes, techniques are extremely powerful, with reaper granting 200% more damage for a 3x multiplier.
I haven't gotten too heavy into reforges (they're extremely expensive and until I know I want to invest in them, I haven't spent too much) but most of them seem more like utility things than damage: Final Hit duration, Ice Spear explosion radius, Act 6: Crisis radius... So what exactly are "elemental" reforges, and how do they increase damage? What kind of multipliers should I expect from them?
They’re essentially just reforges that multiply the damage dealt to enemies not of it’s matching element (Fire elemental reforges to non fire elemental type enemies) or neutral enemies, with no penalty or increase towards fire type enemies.
Which then means you can have multiple elements on the same weapon (Fire and Ice) which stack, so yeah, but most enemies are neutral.
Many newer enemies have innate defenses against these elemental reforges because of how ridiculous the damage gets.
And I assume you mean both you and him are using smash, correct?
Death Mark increases it for chains only, while support shot does it for melee in general (?).
Weapon power potions or bone chips will also add another 20%.
For smash, reforges can add ~200% to the multiplier. Smash Enhancement gear (thames, broken horn) will add even more multipler.
Additionally, some people have smash combo cards which will add up to 85% more smash damage.
Free to make yes, but had to pay up to maintain it or find some extension from players.
Here is Nil's quick reference boot camp for how to get proper damage before taking reforges into account.
First step: Check this Wiki Page for your checklist on any damage stat you need to max out. If you care about your damage at all, clear as much as possible. Don't ignore anything.
Second Step: Your total level can be taken into account, raise it to a decent amount for Eweca boost to be usable. While you do not need total 40k, total 20k is where results start to be favorable. Use the time until you reach this point training up as many skills on that previous list as possible.
Third Step: So you got everything trained and are above total 20k? It is time for you to prepare resources for a final rebirth.
This involves rebirthing to a certain combination of Age and Talent and reaching level 200 and Exploration level 50 before the Age changes off what you need. You can prepare Exp Fruit and Exploration Relic chests in advance if needed.
For quick reference on common stat optimizations:
Humans can use any age and rebirth close combat or lance for their highest Strength growth. The easiest.
Giants must rebirth to Age 10-12 and go close combat or lance. Slightly higher Strength growth than humans.
Elves must rebirth to Age 10-12 and go Archery for their highest Dex growth. If chain, go merchant instead for optimal luck.
If you in all actuality trained everything in step 1 and leveled up all the way, congrats you broke the soft cap and might have even hit the hard cap on whatever damage stat you need.
All before even considering reforges or even Echostones. (And the rest of your gear honestly)
Have fun with your now higher numbers.
Invest in Battlefield Overture and some bone chips and watch things explode.
So I'll give you a touch of advise, without the sarcasm because you seem to honestly care... The thing about it only being reforges is false, a huge part of it is your stats. A few quick things
At endgame humans have around 1900 str, so right off the bat you're missing almost 500max damage from that, yvonna renown increases crit damage, you're also missing a ton of armor penetration from low dex which also adds a lot, missing step 7 on weapons which doesn't add the most but it's still part of the gap. You also have pretty weak enchants, and a low roll totem. The thing with getting those insane numbers is you need all the little bonuses here and there, they really add up since this game loves multipliers
Elemental reforges do not work in Veteran dungeons however (Which I'm actually happy about), since that was mentioned earlier. Other reforges like max damage/skill specific things can help in clearing the dungeons though but it'll still rely on having good gears on top of it.
Veteran dungeons aren't a cake walk however, since it does require a good deal of things if one wants to clear it.
To give you an ideal, here's a few things.
My character window with what I'd be equipped with, using Divine link and having my Doll Bag out. I'm dual wielding my CRK swords, one of them is a level 100 spirit weapon but I don't gain max damage from having one. Bash sees a significant increase though.
Now this is what I have using my Battlefield Overture, which is 48.18% normal playing.
And this is with a bone chip / weapon power potion active:
Keep in mind I have every skill possible for a human fully maxed out. Dan 3 or rank 1 and mastered (if applicable), or else capped if it can't be rank 1. I have all 20 talents at Grandmaster status, and everything else such as totems, homestead figures, renown, etc are helping as well.
Death Mark increases damage from all sources against a single target. Chain Burst increases the damage of chain skills
200%? That's ridiculous! I thought reforges mostly added a flat damage boost. If I could add 200% to my damage that would account for basically all of the discrepancy between my damage and higher levels
Unless they do another Combo Card event, I don't foresee myself finding a useful one any time soon
Awesome! Thank you for the long post!
Important and good advice. Also, I've done this.
Eweca boost? What's Eweca boost? I'm not at 20k yet -- I actually have FAR more r1 skills than my level would suggest because I mostly only play during 2x and 3x AP events and always try to max my level and exploration level before rebirthing. I'm level 7000 but have over 1000 in nearly every stat (except luck, obviously)
I'm aware that gaining all of your levels with the right talent / age combination can improve your stats slightly, but I haven't personally reached this stage yet
I had r1 Playing Instrument back in g3 (before magical music existed) since I just liked playing songs in dungeons
In general great advice for starting players, but I was looking for where to go after these steps -- what to actually do with gear to go from raw stats + skills damage (which caps around 10k) to stats + skills + equipment damage (which seems to reach 30 - 80k)
I'm a tad confused how humans get 1900 STR. Per the wiki (page linked by Nilrem) the most you can get from skills and talents is 975, or 1044 with Grandmaster talent. Add in level-up stats and you can get 200 * 1.5-ish for another 300, but to break 1300 you need totems / catering / etc. More importantly, according to https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats all stats have a HARD cap at 1500 -- so additional points shouldn't have any effect
Thank you for all the information. Since I've been on and off Mabi for the last 11 or so years I ended up missing or never fully understanding most new content updates, so I didn't realize the value of Shine of Eweca. I also never realized high levels actually utilize bone chips so often. It's really awesome to see the actual numbers of a top-level player. I've still got a long ways to go, it looks like, and I guess most of my increase is going to have to come from increasing my total level at this point.
But let's start with this: A bhafel hunter can do 20k+ magnum crits, unbuffed and without reforges, assuming good base stats and a bhafel huntress (special damage multiplier arrow for that only) equipped. Let's consider this our starting point.
Now without getting into reforges, you have:
1. Dan 3/R1 of all applicable skills (and any other skills needed to bring stats or skill damage up)
2. Bohemian Wear, which adds a multiplier.
3. Enchants/titles/totems/homestead items/doll bags
4. Redup upgrades, which again add a damage multiplier to crits based on a percentage.
5. Battlefield Overture to add base damage multiplier. (And this skill can be buffed further through its own enchants/titles.)
6. Food, catering, bone chips, and/or Weapon Power potions which buff base damage
7. Combo Cards, which also add multipliers.
8. Renown to add more crit bonus damage.
You get the point. There's a lot of stacking that can be done.
Now elemental reforges are more for showing off than anything. You get to hit a fox for 80k. (Bigger with all of the above.) Big whoop. A lot of endgame mobs/monsters resist elemental reforges so that won't fly in vet dungeon. So instead you get reforges that stack with the above to nudge the stats up another few percentage points, increase aiming speed/distance, or lengthen your battlefield overture.
Now fair warning: I'm nowhere near a lot of the bigger or more notorious "endgame" players. But I can hit a sorrow/advanced song of grief for 50k (or harder on a good day). Add in Vision of Ladeca and pew pew pew she's down. I usually don't use weapon power potions or other hard-to-get consumables unless I'm with a group, so that should give you an idea of how much you should be able to do. Also, I *HATE* over-reliance on pets or silly immersion-destroying things like pets running in circles, so I rarely summon pets for that fight. (That said, some pet debuffs can be stacked as well if you're fighting something extra tough.)
Now if all of the above sounds complicated/expensive, it is. Most players stacking this much have been playing for years, slowly dragging their damage up and up. I tend to go light on reforges myself unless I can buy them premade from other players. If you've been playing less than a year and you're trying to get a leg-up, try magic or chainblade.
Which isn’t inconceivable that they didn’t just buff the defensive stats...it is Nexon.
RIP my newbness.
I'd like to just point out this is where you're wrong simply with how the multiplicative works, keep in mind only 5 of those multiplicative "around 20% here and there"s are already (100%+20%)^5=248.8%
and there's already probably much more than that mentioned here, even by yourself but you didn't research those enough or just left them out. don't underestimate a tiny bit of those
also if you think a 37k smash is huge, you haven't really seen anything
I’d say it is impressive, depending on the mobs.
Then same point of me saying pay to win, pay to keep it active lol.
While doing dan tests is annoying, not going to put myself through hell just to keep making combo cards because the old one expired.
I don't suppose someone could update the following page to also list tne Sylvan Dragon, Mokkurkalfi, and other Raid-Bosses ?
https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Category:Raid_Boss
of a million dollarsand ask the guy to sell you his stuff for a couple hundred millions G's or bribe him with a gacha jackpot item. No rng bs, no headache.First and foremost
End-game damage in Mabinogi is a matter of stacking multipliers. LOTS of multipliers. When you're stacking multipliers, it's hard to answer the question of which one is "most important", because they're all important. For a contrived example, imagine you had 10 different multipliers that all increased your damage by +100% (double your damage). When these multipliers stack you end up doing 2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 = 1,024x more damage. But no one of these multipliers was "the big one" that accounted for all of your damage. In fact, if any of the multipliers were removed your damage would fall from 1,024x to 512x!
A note on "end game" viability
There are 24 talents, of which 11 are "battle" talents (the remaining 13 are "life" talents). Within these 11 battle talents there are an average of 6 attack skills per talent.
At a glance it looks like there are roughly 66 skills you can use to deal damage to enemies. However, this is deceiving. Many of these "attack" skills do very little damage but apply secondary effects like buffs or debuffs. Some of these "attack" skills don't apply buffs or debuffs but instead have situational utility. Some of these "attack" skills simply aren't useful at all, and you only train them for the stats.
There are closer to 7 skills that are capable of dealing "end game" damage. These include (but may not be limited to):
* Combo: Drop Kick
* Magnum Shot
* Hailstorm
* Water Cannon
* Lance Charge
* Smash
* Fire+Lightning Fusion Bolt
Note that I'm ignoring Arcana skills here. Arcana skills are generally all end-game viable.
Disclaimer
Each "end game viable build" has slightly different scaling behavior. For example, Martial Arts depends heavily on a high rank of erg to reduce the cooldown on combo skills, allowing you to chain them infinitely. On the other hand, Magic depends heavily on having a high level spirit for chain casting. Water Cannon gets a huge damage boost from being cast under a rain cloud, which doesn't benefit other skills similarly. There are more ways to buff melee damage than magic damage, but magic damage tends to have higher base.
The numbers I'm going to give below are a very rough example of how scaling works in Mabinogi, but Your Mileage May Vary depending on your preferred combat style
So how do you do "end game" damage?
Upon making a new character and punching a fox, you will do about 10 damage. This is the "base" damage in Mabinogi. All multipliers will be stacked on top of this baseline of 10:
* Train every skill to r1 (stats multiplier) -- 100x. This will get you to 1k damage on attacks.
* Use your skills instead of auto-attacking (skill multiplier) -- 10x. This will get you to 10k damage.
* Increase your critical rate (crit multiplier) -- 2x. This will get you to 20k damage.
This concludes all "inherent" bonuses (e.g. anyone can do 20k damage while naked with a base weapon)
* Get an end-game weapon (Perseus, Nightbringer, Ruination) -- 1.35x. This will get you to 27k damage.
* Erg your weapon -- 1.3x. This will get you to 35k damage.
* Upgrade your weapon -- 1.2x. This will get you to 42k damage.
* Special upgrade your weapon -- 1.2x. This will get you to 50k damage.
* Enchants -- 1.2x. This will get you to 60k damage.
* Spirit your weapon -- 1.2x. This will get you to 72k damage.
* Reforges -- 1.2x. This will get you to 86k damage.
* Equipment effects -- 1.15x. This will get you to 99-100k damage.
This concludes the "permanent" bonuses (e.g. by end game you deal this damage with no player skill)
* Combos -- 2x. This will get you to 200k damage.
* Buffs -- 1.5x. This will get you to 300k damage.
* Potions -- 1.2x. This will get you to 360k damage.
* Debuffs -- 1.5x. This will get you to 540k damage.
This concludes the "temporary" bonuses (e.g. this is the most damage you will generally see)
Conclusion
The "biggest" multiplier comes from stats. As Nilrem, Mabiln2k19, Zarric, and Policroma all called out: you should get Dan3/r1 in every skill as your first move towards end game. The 100x multiplier is far larger than any of the other multipliers available.
Since you got every skill to Dan3/r1, you also have the 10x skill multiplier at this point.
After this, all permanent multipliers range from 1.15x to 1.3x and temporary multipliers (excluding combos) range from 1.2x to 1.5x. So no one multiplier is going to send your damage through the roof. You need all of them. You need to work on your weapon, your erg, your spirit, your reforges, your equipment effects, your enchants,... and your personal skill.
Personal skill is the difference between dealing 100k damage and dealing 500k damage. You need to learn to use: Battlefield Overture (1.4x), Deathmark (1.2x), Fateweaver (1.1x), Power Potions (1.2x), Spirit Awakening (1.1x), Exploit Weakness (1.15x) and Combo Cards (1.8x).
That's not all. There's plenty more to learn: Smokescreen, Bone Dragon / Mir Dragon / Ceraunus summons, Spinning Uppercut, Bash, Rage Impact, Support Shot, Rain Casting, Hydra Transmutation,... This isn't even counting Brionac and Pragarah.
This game is a LOT deeper than I ever realized. To see end-game damage numbers you have a LOT of grinding to do.
Update
In this post I said "train all skills to Dan3/r1" to max out your stats... but that's not the full story.
* You need to get at least 3 Arcana talents to level 50, as this raises the stat cap from 1,500 to 2,000
* You should also Grandmaster every talent as this gives more stats
* You should get totems, homestead figures, etc. to increase stats further
* Divine Linking a pet can increase stats further
* Enchants can increase stats further
* Eating food while hungry gives semi-permanent boosts to stats
* Leveling up with the appropriate talent and age will grant more stats
* Exploration level also gives more stats
* Shine of Eweca gives stats that bypass the 1,500 / 2,000 cap!
* Echostones give stats that bypass the 1,500 / 2,000 cap!
Maxing your stats is a whole science unto itself. I play a magic / archery build and I have over 2,300 in both INT and DEX. I'm not sure if 2,300 is possible in all stats (e.g. not sure what happens if a giant focuses STR or WIL) but I can at least confirm these values are possible for INT and DEX.