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Post your favourite plot hole

TentacleTentacle
Mabinogi Rep: 1,050
Posts: 45
Member
in Story Discussion
This thread isn't necessarily for complaining about the story being inconsistent throughout the Generations (although it wouldn't kill the devs to review Mabi's plot so far and keep and outline around for reference).
It's more like: what question would you like answered the most?

I'll start. What happened to Triona and why was it so awfully convenient? SHE. DIED. OFF-SCREEN. WHYYY? Sorry about that outburst, even after all this time it still gets my jimmies rustled.
Farseerarenta

Comments

  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,210
    Posts: 45
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    Triona and Morgant's story was resolved very unsatisfyingly, for those that played the game from its inception, the Dark Lord and his daughter was one of the few recurring characters that held importance anytime they appeared. They were also a big part of why Ruairi was an interesting character as it gave him motivations and purpose, Triona represented one possible future for him while Morgant represents another. Given the way it has resolved we're left with one dimensional characters that we will never see fully fleshed out, we never know why Lugh betrayed humanity (if that was his actual intentions at all), how did he meet Neamhain, and what his end games are (all from C1 and C3 dialog). Wasted potential is probably the best word here.

    As for plot holes, where were the Alban knights when Cichol was running rampant during the earlier stories, you'd think a rouge god with an army of darkness would prompt them to take action or at least contact and support some of the forces leading the charge against them. More on that as well, its shown in Pihne's story that the prophets and Mother Ladeca have been active for many years now, wouldn't a religion of that size and malicious intent be active in the capitol of the continent?
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,555
    Posts: 263
    Member
    I really need to do g20. I hate not knowing significant parts of the story so far.

    I'd like to know why the Aces ever had to exist. Greatest mystery of all time.

    On a more serious note, I'd kinda like to know what happened to Neamhain. I guess it can be assumed that she left Erinn with Morrighan and Cichol (or maybe even before that), but we never actually see her mentioned after Morrighan supposedly sends us off to revive her at the end of G12.

    I also really want to know what exactly happened to Tarlach. Has he been turned into a homunculus like Eabha, made into a sort of vessel for Macha (or some other diety) like Triona and Millia, or was he simply granted divine knowledge, at the cost of being turned into a kid perpetually cursed with pink eye? (Seriously, if this is the case, why did his eyes need to change color?)

    Though it's not exactly a plot hole, I'd also like to know what the fomors are doing these days. Did they give up just because their god poofed, or did Bella's death actually solve some sort of issue for them? It seems weird for Cichol to just give up on the fomors, whom he's represented and claimed to be morally superior so humans for the entire story so far, just because Erinn isn't going to be destroyed, unless he was just using them as Morrighan was using us.

    And Speaking of Lugh, I'd like to know for certain whether he's a milletian or not. Same with Millia's father.
    Pip-Boy
  • GiegueGiegue
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,510
    Posts: 81
    Member
    edited March 13
    -snip-
    Though it's not exactly a plot hole, I'd also like to know what the fomors are doing these days. Did they give up just because their god poofed, or did Bella's death actually solve some sort of issue for them? It seems weird for Cichol to just give up on the fomors, whom he's represented and claimed to be morally superior so humans for the entire story so far, just because Erinn isn't going to be destroyed, unless he was just using them as Morrighan was using us.

    And Speaking of Lugh, I'd like to know for certain whether he's a milletian or not. Same with Millia's father.

    Most Fomors are now peacefully living alongside humans after the defeat (but not really) of Cichol. There are some who are now heretics to their own race, and these are apparently following the bigbad in g20+. Cichol seems to be busy doing something. I mean it took Ruairi 12 generations to do anything after his last appearance.
    Lugh canonically was originally designed as a fomorian demigod, G1 stated he was human, g2 stated "no one actually knows, some think he's milletian." but g16 launched it out of the window hardcore with that Lugh that I honestly believe was just some brainwashed old man and not actually Lugh. (Hates g16 with a passion)

    G13-16 made a lot of plot holes by rewriting/ignoring established canon: Eg. saying shakespeare was a Milletian hundreds of years before the main milletians, when g1 specifically says Milletians hadn't been around for more than a few months during that time period. And Saying Morrighan and Cichol knew eachother as children when as far as im aware Mabinogi Heroes is still canon (up until the end of chapter 1) + the whole thing that makes Erinn Paradise.
    And the accidental rectification of forgetting Erinn was Tir na Nog in Saga (Tarlach and Ruairi's inexplicable aging wasn't due to the soul stream, but rather due to the effects of leaving Erinn/Tir Na Nog, which in canon, ages them rapidly.)

    G21 forgetting Erinn is Tir na Nog for the sake of giving someone a tragic backstory.

    The entire plot forgot about Tarlach's entire motivation for challenging the gods: His sister died and he wanted the reason why and to find Tir Na Nog.
    Tentacle
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,555
    Posts: 263
    Member
    Giegue wrote: »
    -snip-
    Though it's not exactly a plot hole, I'd also like to know what the fomors are doing these days. Did they give up just because their god poofed, or did Bella's death actually solve some sort of issue for them? It seems weird for Cichol to just give up on the fomors, whom he's represented and claimed to be morally superior so humans for the entire story so far, just because Erinn isn't going to be destroyed, unless he was just using them as Morrighan was using us.

    And Speaking of Lugh, I'd like to know for certain whether he's a milletian or not. Same with Millia's father.

    Most Fomors are now peacefully living alongside humans after the defeat (but not really) of Cichol. There are some who are now heretics to their own race, and these are apparently following the bigbad in g20+. Cichol seems to be busy doing something. I mean it took Ruairi 12 generations to do anything after his last appearance.
    Lugh canonically was originally designed as a fomorian demigod, G1 stated he was human, g2 stated "no one actually knows, some think he's milletian." but g16 launched it out of the window hardcore with that Lugh that I honestly believe was just some brainwashed old man and not actually Lugh. (Hates g16 with a passion)

    G13-16 made a lot of plot holes by rewriting/ignoring established canon: Eg. saying shakespeare was a Milletian hundreds of years before the main milletians, when g1 specifically says Milletians hadn't been around for more than a few months during that time period. And Saying Morrighan and Cichol knew eachother as children when as far as im aware Mabinogi Heroes is still canon (up until the end of chapter 1) + the whole thing that makes Erinn Paradise.
    And the accidental rectification of forgetting Erinn was Tir na Nog in Saga (Tarlach and Ruairi's inexplicable aging wasn't due to the soul stream, but rather due to the effects of leaving Erinn/Tir Na Nog, which in canon, ages them rapidly.)

    G21 forgetting Erinn is Tir na Nog for the sake of giving someone a tragic backstory.

    The entire plot forgot about Tarlach's entire motivation for challenging the gods: His sister died and he wanted the reason why and to find Tir Na Nog.

    I find that fomor thing hard to believe. "Oh well, since Cichol's gone, I guess we'll just stay here in the other world (desolate wasteland) while you humans live it up in Tir Na Nog. It's fien.". Unless they all turned into (or just turned out to be) trade/bandit imps/ogres/goblins. I'll take your word for it though, since I'm not exactly caught up on the story.

    I actually don't think g16 was that bad overall, but I do agree that Bella and Crazy Lugh came out of nowhere. That chapter just clearly wasn't planned out all that well.

    As much of a mess as that chapter 3 was, I think it really is possible that Shakespeare was here way before we were. Early on in the story, most people don't even seem to be aware of the existence of milletians, or at least they don't seem to know exactly what we are. So unless Morrighan herself says that milletians have only recently begun to appear, I wouldn't take it too seriously. Heck, even if it was she who said it, she may have been lying to us, at that point in the story. There was no reason for us to know about Shakespeare, and it was definitely in her best interest that we not know about him.

    I had assumed that the effects of using the soul streams power and the effects of leaving Erinn were one and the same. If they left Erinn, they didn't go anywhere but the Soul Stream (unless I missed something), and if they never actually went to the soul stream, then it was simply the toll on them for tapping into the power of the Soul Stream, which links Erinn with other worlds, that they were no longer protected from aging.

    The death of his sister might've been why he sought paradise to begin with, but his goal was never to bring her back to life or anything, as Cai's was. I don't think Tarlach's motivation for acting was forgotten, it just changed a bit over time. Actually, now that I think about it, it was his methods that changed, more than his motivation. He went from "Let's go find the goddess and Tir Na Nog, the paradise!" to "Let's make Erinn a true paradise by making sure the gods can never meddle in it again." (even though they had already left the people of Erinn to their own devices - why did no one tell Tarlach this?). As for why he suddenly decided he needed to do this, I guess he just got stir crazy. Being forced to live alone in the snowy wilderness, half the time as a bear, does things to you. He was bound to go insane, eventually.
  • SherriSherri
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    I just want to know the origins of the aces. Or does Iria II tell us? I only did the first for the rewards. [img]http://forum2.nexon.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.png"; title="Roll Eyes" (Sarcastic)[/img]
    Selenija
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,055
    Posts: 295
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    Well, having been replaying some generations due to creating an Elite hero giant...

    G9's Temple Knights.
    Why do they even exist? They don't even go anywhere or do anything outside of one dungeon and being an ineffective plot device.

    Where were the aces during the events of G1? Why are the aces super hyped up when really not all that strong?

    Where were the divine knights during G1? Or any generation for that matter? They came out of nowhere with no build up.

    And a lot more questions and nonsense as I replay it all.
    Behelit
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,060
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    Macha. Do I have to say anymore?
    NilremMeySelenijaSherri
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,555
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    Sherri wrote: »
    [img]http://forum2.nexon.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.png"; title="Roll Eyes" (Sarcastic)[/img]

    Thank you for showing me that this still exists.
    Sherri
  • rawrnyahrawrnyah
    Mabinogi Rep: 410
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    So Tarlach, Mari and Ruairi are known as the Three Lost Warriors and were a bunch of people who were most famous for.... well being lost. Not exactly a noteworthy task that gets people to remember you. Why are these guys famous again? Does nobody ever get lost in Erinn or something that those three going missing suddenly makes them memorable?
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,210
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    rawrnyah wrote: »
    So Tarlach, Mari and Ruairi are known as the Three Lost Warriors and were a bunch of people who were most famous for.... well being lost. Not exactly a noteworthy task that gets people to remember you. Why are these guys famous again? Does nobody ever get lost in Erinn or something that those three going missing suddenly makes them memorable?

    Well they were famous to Tir and Dunbarton, two very close locations, they were certainly famous in their home town of Tir Chonail, and probably made a name for themselves in Dunbarton as well. Remember, Tir Chonail amounts to a small country side village and these were kids looking for what is basically god and heaven, so they would be quite memorable and their disappearance would definitely noticed and recorded. As for why the story is brought up about them specifically is because you had a dream about the goddess as well, the same thing that Ruairi said during his adventures, the similarities in the nature of your journey and the dream probably prompted them to tell you as a cautionary tale.
    Sherrirawrnyah
  • GenuisenieGenuisenie
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    What is the Treasure Hunter's name!?
    >:(
    Sherri
  • LeineiLeinei
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    Genuisenie wrote: »
    What is the Treasure Hunter's name!?
    >:(

    This, who are the other two Settler children that were saved.

    How was the Irinid's Curse broken (being why Connous is cooling down and Vales is defrosting)?
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,555
    Posts: 263
    Member
    Leinei wrote: »
    How was the Irinid's Curse broken (being why Connous is cooling down and Vales is defrosting)?

    Pretty sure that was a result of Tarlach breaking all of Irinid's seals.
  • JaridavinJaridavin
    Mabinogi Rep: 450
    Posts: 10
    Member
    Giegue wrote: »
    -snip-
    Though it's not exactly a plot hole, I'd also like to know what the fomors are doing these days. Did they give up just because their god poofed, or did Bella's death actually solve some sort of issue for them? It seems weird for Cichol to just give up on the fomors, whom he's represented and claimed to be morally superior so humans for the entire story so far, just because Erinn isn't going to be destroyed, unless he was just using them as Morrighan was using us.

    And Speaking of Lugh, I'd like to know for certain whether he's a milletian or not. Same with Millia's father.

    Most Fomors are now peacefully living alongside humans after the defeat (but not really) of Cichol. There are some who are now heretics to their own race, and these are apparently following the bigbad in g20+. Cichol seems to be busy doing something. I mean it took Ruairi 12 generations to do anything after his last appearance.
    Lugh canonically was originally designed as a fomorian demigod, G1 stated he was human, g2 stated "no one actually knows, some think he's milletian." but g16 launched it out of the window hardcore with that Lugh that I honestly believe was just some brainwashed old man and not actually Lugh. (Hates g16 with a passion)

    G13-16 made a lot of plot holes by rewriting/ignoring established canon: Eg. saying shakespeare was a Milletian hundreds of years before the main milletians, when g1 specifically says Milletians hadn't been around for more than a few months during that time period. And Saying Morrighan and Cichol knew eachother as children when as far as im aware Mabinogi Heroes is still canon (up until the end of chapter 1) + the whole thing that makes Erinn Paradise.
    And the accidental rectification of forgetting Erinn was Tir na Nog in Saga (Tarlach and Ruairi's inexplicable aging wasn't due to the soul stream, but rather due to the effects of leaving Erinn/Tir Na Nog, which in canon, ages them rapidly.)

    G21 forgetting Erinn is Tir na Nog for the sake of giving someone a tragic backstory.

    The entire plot forgot about Tarlach's entire motivation for challenging the gods: His sister died and he wanted the reason why and to find Tir Na Nog.

    I find that fomor thing hard to believe. "Oh well, since Cichol's gone, I guess we'll just stay here in the other world (desolate wasteland) while you humans live it up in Tir Na Nog. It's fien.". Unless they all turned into (or just turned out to be) trade/bandit imps/ogres/goblins. I'll take your word for it though, since I'm not exactly caught up on the story.

    I actually don't think g16 was that bad overall, but I do agree that Bella and Crazy Lugh came out of nowhere. That chapter just clearly wasn't planned out all that well.

    As much of a mess as that chapter 3 was, I think it really is possible that Shakespeare was here way before we were. Early on in the story, most people don't even seem to be aware of the existence of milletians, or at least they don't seem to know exactly what we are. So unless Morrighan herself says that milletians have only recently begun to appear, I wouldn't take it too seriously. Heck, even if it was she who said it, she may have been lying to us, at that point in the story. There was no reason for us to know about Shakespeare, and it was definitely in her best interest that we not know about him.

    I had assumed that the effects of using the soul streams power and the effects of leaving Erinn were one and the same. If they left Erinn, they didn't go anywhere but the Soul Stream (unless I missed something), and if they never actually went to the soul stream, then it was simply the toll on them for tapping into the power of the Soul Stream, which links Erinn with other worlds, that they were no longer protected from aging.

    The death of his sister might've been why he sought paradise to begin with, but his goal was never to bring her back to life or anything, as Cai's was. I don't think Tarlach's motivation for acting was forgotten, it just changed a bit over time. Actually, now that I think about it, it was his methods that changed, more than his motivation. He went from "Let's go find the goddess and Tir Na Nog, the paradise!" to "Let's make Erinn a true paradise by making sure the gods can never meddle in it again." (even though they had already left the people of Erinn to their own devices - why did no one tell Tarlach this?). As for why he suddenly decided he needed to do this, I guess he just got stir crazy. Being forced to live alone in the snowy wilderness, half the time as a bear, does things to you. He was bound to go insane, eventually.

    I did look it up, since I also felt like I missed something. According to the wiki, it says this.

    "Cichol supposedly dies. In Generation 15, it was revealed that his believed death had sprang out fear amongst his kind. A few ended their antagonist ways and agreed to coexist with Humanity, while the rest either remained confused or retained their wicked path. These coexisting Fomors reside on the island of Belvast, but several Goblins, Ogres, and Imps have stationed themselves within every town of Uladh and founded Commerce."

    So the ones that did are your commercers. Otherwise, they're confused with no idea what to do, or are still 100% against the humans. IF this is incorrect, please correct.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,210
    Posts: 45
    Member
    Jaridavin wrote: »
    Giegue wrote: »
    -snip-
    Though it's not exactly a plot hole, I'd also like to know what the fomors are doing these days. Did they give up just because their god poofed, or did Bella's death actually solve some sort of issue for them? It seems weird for Cichol to just give up on the fomors, whom he's represented and claimed to be morally superior so humans for the entire story so far, just because Erinn isn't going to be destroyed, unless he was just using them as Morrighan was using us.

    And Speaking of Lugh, I'd like to know for certain whether he's a milletian or not. Same with Millia's father.

    Most Fomors are now peacefully living alongside humans after the defeat (but not really) of Cichol. There are some who are now heretics to their own race, and these are apparently following the bigbad in g20+. Cichol seems to be busy doing something. I mean it took Ruairi 12 generations to do anything after his last appearance.
    Lugh canonically was originally designed as a fomorian demigod, G1 stated he was human, g2 stated "no one actually knows, some think he's milletian." but g16 launched it out of the window hardcore with that Lugh that I honestly believe was just some brainwashed old man and not actually Lugh. (Hates g16 with a passion)

    G13-16 made a lot of plot holes by rewriting/ignoring established canon: Eg. saying shakespeare was a Milletian hundreds of years before the main milletians, when g1 specifically says Milletians hadn't been around for more than a few months during that time period. And Saying Morrighan and Cichol knew eachother as children when as far as im aware Mabinogi Heroes is still canon (up until the end of chapter 1) + the whole thing that makes Erinn Paradise.
    And the accidental rectification of forgetting Erinn was Tir na Nog in Saga (Tarlach and Ruairi's inexplicable aging wasn't due to the soul stream, but rather due to the effects of leaving Erinn/Tir Na Nog, which in canon, ages them rapidly.)

    G21 forgetting Erinn is Tir na Nog for the sake of giving someone a tragic backstory.

    The entire plot forgot about Tarlach's entire motivation for challenging the gods: His sister died and he wanted the reason why and to find Tir Na Nog.

    I find that fomor thing hard to believe. "Oh well, since Cichol's gone, I guess we'll just stay here in the other world (desolate wasteland) while you humans live it up in Tir Na Nog. It's fien.". Unless they all turned into (or just turned out to be) trade/bandit imps/ogres/goblins. I'll take your word for it though, since I'm not exactly caught up on the story.

    I actually don't think g16 was that bad overall, but I do agree that Bella and Crazy Lugh came out of nowhere. That chapter just clearly wasn't planned out all that well.

    As much of a mess as that chapter 3 was, I think it really is possible that Shakespeare was here way before we were. Early on in the story, most people don't even seem to be aware of the existence of milletians, or at least they don't seem to know exactly what we are. So unless Morrighan herself says that milletians have only recently begun to appear, I wouldn't take it too seriously. Heck, even if it was she who said it, she may have been lying to us, at that point in the story. There was no reason for us to know about Shakespeare, and it was definitely in her best interest that we not know about him.

    I had assumed that the effects of using the soul streams power and the effects of leaving Erinn were one and the same. If they left Erinn, they didn't go anywhere but the Soul Stream (unless I missed something), and if they never actually went to the soul stream, then it was simply the toll on them for tapping into the power of the Soul Stream, which links Erinn with other worlds, that they were no longer protected from aging.

    The death of his sister might've been why he sought paradise to begin with, but his goal was never to bring her back to life or anything, as Cai's was. I don't think Tarlach's motivation for acting was forgotten, it just changed a bit over time. Actually, now that I think about it, it was his methods that changed, more than his motivation. He went from "Let's go find the goddess and Tir Na Nog, the paradise!" to "Let's make Erinn a true paradise by making sure the gods can never meddle in it again." (even though they had already left the people of Erinn to their own devices - why did no one tell Tarlach this?). As for why he suddenly decided he needed to do this, I guess he just got stir crazy. Being forced to live alone in the snowy wilderness, half the time as a bear, does things to you. He was bound to go insane, eventually.

    I did look it up, since I also felt like I missed something. According to the wiki, it says this.

    "Cichol supposedly dies. In Generation 15, it was revealed that his believed death had sprang out fear amongst his kind. A few ended their antagonist ways and agreed to coexist with Humanity, while the rest either remained confused or retained their wicked path. These coexisting Fomors reside on the island of Belvast, but several Goblins, Ogres, and Imps have stationed themselves within every town of Uladh and founded Commerce."

    So the ones that did are your commercers. Otherwise, they're confused with no idea what to do, or are still 100% against the humans. IF this is incorrect, please correct.

    One thing to note about the lore is that the fomors you fight are from the military branch of their race. Remember, the war between the races has been waged for a long time and both sides are quite tired of the fighting. The fomor race abandoned their God because he allied with their sworn enemy, with their God breaking their doctrine for war, the believe that held them together broke apart with those with no real grudges against humans breaking off. However, directly because of the war, there are many fomors that held deep grudges and will continue to hate and fight humanity (referring to Militians and the Dananns) hence why we still have fomors in dungeons and shadow missions. You have a section of the race that is more interested in profits and potential gains rather than outright destruction, and those fomors are the ones allied in Belvast.
  • mintielmintiel
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    hEY WOAH WAIT SOMEONE MENTIONED TARLACH IN MY ABSENCE KEEP GOING
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    edited July 5
    Since Ruairi, Rian, and Ersas are all dead or somewhere over a rainbow or something. Who actually runs Emain Macha?
    And who is Aodhan and his guards guarding at the castle if there's no one inside?

    Also since war with the fomors is generally over, why are the leaders of each town still collecting fomor scrolls?
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    If Macha is so powerful, why does her fireballs only do one damage?
    Sherri
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Because she has yet to master the most powerful magic.
    LGPFFL.gif
  • FarseerarentaFarseerarenta
    Mabinogi Rep: 845
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    Tentacle wrote: »
    This thread isn't necessarily for complaining about the story being inconsistent throughout the Generations (although it wouldn't kill the devs to review Mabi's plot so far and keep and outline around for reference).
    It's more like: what question would you like answered the most?

    I'll start. What happened to Triona and why was it so awfully convenient? SHE. DIED. OFF-SCREEN. WHYYY? Sorry about that outburst, even after all this time it still gets my jimmies rustled.

    T.T
    aye....Triona was my favorite char....and she...."dies"? how....why....when...

    needless to say i was instantly negative to the imposter