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NERF G21. IMPOSSIBLE BOSSES ARE NOT FUN TO FIGHT.

SqueeSquee
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in Feedback and Suggestions
So, I've been stuck on the Doppelganger, but not just the Doppelganger, Tagar and Hasidim were also really unfair bosses. From what I hear, these bosses got a beef up a while back (I've been off the game for a few years until recently when I came back and tried to play the stories I missed to catch up). What I found in G21 was a PURE EVIL difficulty spike that I only have one thing to say: Whoever designed the boss fights for this generation needs to be fired. Or demoted to janitor. I'd settle for either or. G20 was pretty fair, even if I didn't like the "Survive for this amount of time" and then you can do damage/kill the boss. It wasn't the funnest storyline battles, but at least G20 was fair in it's difficulty. G21 though, I don't know if you guys decided that you made it almost impossible to discourage players from trying to get Nascent Divinity, or you just like bullying your players, but this is unacceptable game design.

And before anyone tries to say "It's fair, get good you idiot". I am level 11,000 cumulative with a mastery in magic, physical combat, lance combat, puppetry, and working towards a gunner master and chain slash master title. I've been playing this game since G9 (with exception of the few years I took off from the game because it got boring). I know this game pretty darn well, and I can easily make my way through most hard and elite missions with ease. But G21 ramps up the difficulty to a brand new level simply through poor design.

First is Hasidim. I don't know what is up with this guy, but he can go through obstacles like they're not even there, so you can't hide from him if you need to take a moment to breathe, and his dash attack can hit you 2 or 3 times in a row to kill you (His attacks do like 500 damage each). This boss isn't the worst, but he really needs better balancing. The boss being able to come after you from anywhere on the map is just unfair while you're trying to collect yourself.

Then there's Tagar... Oh my god... I went through so many Nao Stones before I finally beat this reaper woman. The BIGGEST culprit was her teleport attack where she goes into the ground and comes up underneath you. The problem with this attack is that it's random on whether she comes up behind you, beside you or even in front of you. She's supposed to attack a certain area and if you move you can avoid it, but the area she is to appear in isn't consistent. I only beat this boss because of the Nao Stones and MANY MANY health potions. Her attacks weren't hard to predict, but the teleport move just gets REALLY unfair and does at 600-800 damage (sometimes even critting for an instant kill). It's impossible to predict which way to run because she pops up randomly around other sides of you and you have no way to know before she's basically already hit you. Some of her other attacks also don't have clear patterns, like one that slows you down, and the fog that causes it just "appears" under you. There's no pattern, no running away from it, it just appears wherever you are. I thought it had to do with the area in front of her so I got behind her, and it still appears where you are. And in a fight where you need to move or you're gonna die, slowing down the player just to make sure the boss's next teleport hits is completely unfair. The only attack she has that is fair is her classic scythe swing that fires a slash wave in one direction, but even that can clip you when you're far away from it because the attack has a much bigger hitbox than the attack physically looks.

And THEN there's the doppelganger... Seriously... Why is this boss even here when it seems to set up that we should be fighting Cichol (I still haven't beaten this boss, so I don't know what the story is here after the fight and please no spoilers)?! I like the throwback, I do like this boss and the concept of using the doppelganger who's best power is demi-god, a power you've grown beyond and gotten stronger than. But why is this boss so tank-y?! A boss is supposed to require wit and good planning to beat. This boss is the most UNFAIR boss I've ever fought. If it didn't have health Regen, this would actually be a fairly fair fight (the clones make it tedious, but at least it would be somewhat fair). The clones also need to be removed from this fight entirely if the boss is going to have health regeneration. You can't widdle the bosses health bar down if it is regenerating while you're forced to do some stupid task of hitting the bars. People keep saying use pets, or dolls but those don't do crap for this fight. They're supposed to temporarily stop the regeneration using the attacks to take advantage of temporary health regeneration stopping when attacking an opponent (which doesn't seem to work anymore because when it was taking damage on my screen, it still was regenerating health even while my pet was beating it like it owed him money. Oh yeah, and apparently you have to take advantage of a glitch in order to avoid Shadow Spirit if for some reason you can't hit the orbs because the boss is using wind blast to throw you around the room like bloody rag doll. Players shouldn't even be required to HAVE to take advantage of exploits or glitches in the game at ALL. That is poor game design, and seems like you're now focusing on making players take advantage of glitches and exploits that shouldn't even be in the game. I've tried Adniel's horn as last resort, hoping that would do some real damage to the doppelganger, but not only does he take ZERO damage, but the clones don't even get killed by the horn (I tried this twice, once to kill the clones which didn't work, and the second on the doppelganger after I killed the clones which ALSO didn't work.) Every strategy I've tried doesn't work, and I've tried literally every skillset I have. I've tried injuring the boss little by little (but I can't injure it more than .01 percent at a time, and I'm not about to sit around and widdle a health bar down by 0.01 percent for every hit. I've spent over an hour on this fight and ONLY got him down to 90 percent. Even when I try to injure him using arrows or shuriken, the injury only seems to take small, almost insignificant amounts of health off. This boss should not require you to be fighting for over an hour like I've seen a lot of people who post videos of this do. I still haven't beaten this boss yet because I just can't do more damage than it regenerates AND deal with the clones. It just doesn't work. This fight does not work as is, and needs either the health regen or the clones removed. One or the other would actually make this fight FAR more fair. Tedious, but fair. And honestly, a lot of the bosses in these stories since around G19 have been overly tedious. That was why I stopped playing the game, because after G18, I felt the game just didn't have anything to offer to maintain the level of interest, and I found G19 to be far too tedioius and the Girgishy to be too annoying of a villain to fight.

I haven't even gotten to the Talvish fight yet and I'm hearing horror stories about that one. Apparently in that fight you have to take advantage of exploits JUST to survive. If you make one mistake, it's an instant death. But I only have what I've heard to go on for that fight. I don't even what to imagine how awful that fight is going to be. I've even heard that Nascent Divinity has weird camera changes that will make it almost impossible to use when you get it for new players who haven't use the skill before. But I can't judge that until I play that fight, so I'll leave that one alone. As I said before, players should NEVER have to take advantage of exploits. Most of the bosses require knowledge of exploits to even have a chance against, and that is not how game design should work.

Everything about this generation needs an update and a COMPLETE redesign. There is absolutely no reason this should be this unfair. And some have told me G22 and G23 are even worse! I'm not even going to be playing those generations if this is what I have to look forward to. I can't believe you think this is acceptable game design. How am I supposed to enjoy the story through these constantly unfair boss battles, most of which are almost impossible.

Overall, I don't see a lot of people doing much of anything with stories after G18. Sure you see a lot of people who have played the story, but no one really seems to frequent a lot of the stuff that's been introduced like the Baltane missions or the Avalon missions because they're just too tedious and annoying compared to the classic shadow missions which are easier to spam and are just more fun. Honestly, I think everything from G19 to what I've seen so far requires a redesign, but G21 needs it first. I don't know what possessed you guys to make this trash, but the fights in this storyline are trashy.

And that's not even mentioning the storyline. So far, the storyline feels half-hearted as well, but that's my personal opinion so I won't get into that. Making G21 playable and fair is priority one.
Atheist42Gremm

Comments

  • SytrieSytrie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,165
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    I have completed all generations so far and I am completely against mechanics that modifies the default gameplay. Like when you enter a mission with an immortal boss that one shots you.

    Remember some missions that you just need to stay away from enemies detection range for a few minutes and poof you success(?)

    Also its great they add glorious Advanced Heavy Stander that dragons should have to even cutest hamsters to balance the monster level scaling. (just wow).

    Immersive damage is also another story, game literally gives you some decent gear with like a bit defense and protection, and guess what? Congrats, this Boss actually bypasses your defense and protection! Why? Because otherwise it can't be balanced. Enjoy your 1 hit KO!

    Sometimes, you need be faster than your enemy, like when you have a kinky archer build. But don't worry, most of cool bosses teleport/teleport grab/skill that teleport to you/no need even teleport, this attack's range is everywhere!. ( teleporting? edggyyy man put it to everywhere! )

    Oh and one more thing, I like it when I have nao stones there is no time limit, because thoose super-powerful monsters literally wait for my skills to cooldown when I am knocked out, and they eventually complain about how did they lose against me. (huh, you high bro? You just let me.)

    What I am complaining about is, game tells you to use armor, tells you to use your sword but in the end it doesn't work.

    Building a character mean nothing in mabinogi, even if you build the god's hand, in the cutscene you are a hipster.



    Atheist42
  • SherriSherri
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    I'm 15.7k as of typing this, 8 (soon to be 9) mastered titles and I haven't completed G21 JUST because of what I heard about the bosses being almost impossible. (I managed to do G22 and G23 though, tedious but I somehow got through.)
    And I'm not gonna complete G21 until I'm like 50k total level or the gens get rewritten (which probably won't happen).
    Kensamaofmari
  • SqueeSquee
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    edited November 5, 2019
    Sherri wrote: »
    I'm 15.7k as of typing this, 8 (soon to be 9) mastered titles and I haven't completed G21 JUST because of what I heard about the bosses being almost impossible. (I managed to do G22 and G23 though, tedious but I somehow got through.)
    And I'm not gonna complete G21 until I'm like 50k total level or the gens get rewritten (which probably won't happen).

    G21 is BEYOND infuriating. Don't even do it. Nascent Divinity isn't even worth it. Unless you're willing to spend a fortune on Nao stones, don't even bother. A lot of the bosses can kill you no MATTER what level you are in one or two good hits, and some have insta-kill attacks which is even more infuriating and doesn't matter what level you are. Most of the time, the ONLY key to victory is some obscure trick you probably didn't know about that. The skills are too annoying to use, and overall, you're better off just sticking to what you have. The entire Alban Knights storyline has ranged from infuriating to boring and back to infuriating. Just skip it completely. You really won't miss much. The entire storyline can be summed up in one sentence: Chase down the bad guys, kill them, and watch them get away anyway. That's it. You spend 90% of the Divine Knights storyline chasing the Apostles and in the end it's just a real boring storyline. I wanted to get the Nascent divinity transformation, but after trying it, it's just not worth it.
    Atheist42
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
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    I know people whose alt's are under 10k and they have cleared g21. It's not hard at all.
    Greta
  • GretaGreta
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    edited November 5, 2019
    My husband started G21 upon it's release and completed Part 1 quite easily. With nearly 5k ttl human... Oh and he deranked most skills during that. Just told him to complete it fully so I and him could flex on you. ;)
  • SurreptitiouslySurreptitiously
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    Logged in just to pitch in.

    Hasidim has many things that you can get by, his charge can be evaded (Although its not at a 100% chance) or dodged with Anchor Rush. His Orbs can also be outrun on a pet, or evaded, or completely blocked with Shield of Trust. However that is generally unreccomnended due to it leaving you open to get your rear end torn asunder by his Mineral Hail. Additionally, mana shield is extremely crucial to surviving against Hasidim, even with techs/high def+prot (Which until you finish g23, you wouldn't have Dampen Shock and Blunting Field).
    For Tagar, you have to give twice the range for her scythe linear and horizontal attacks. Her windmill you should generally run straight in one direction asap, preferably with a pet if you lack wavesweeper/fleet/racial bonus. The slow, I don't remember any counters to it, but it should be able to be dodged (again, by anchor rush), and there should be a set time frame where the zone locks. Using pet link can actually make Tagar a bit easier, as if you place your pet and tell it to sit by one of the Pillars, and keep a short distance from Tagar, you can rely on your pet taking the heat while you focus on chipping her down.
    The doppelganger, I actually don't even recall in g21. I had to actually look up where it was, probably because I shredded it that fast, and that was with a mediocre firebolt on a wimp connection. Which for this fight looking at the wiki, again, recommends Pet Link, and if the doppelganger uses shadow spirit, resetting its AI with windmill. Which is a feature by the way, not a glitch/bug.
    For the Talvish fight, the biggest issue I remember most people having is trying to kill him with the skills that he has 80% plot reduction towards (Firebolt, Final Hit, Bash, Chain Impale), and not avoiding his instant kill with Shield of Trust. Other than that, he's manageable.

    All in all, its G21. Its the finale for an entire chapter, and a lot of the issues you've explained are simply not using longevity and skills that you have access to and should be used to using, or aware that they can be used to make life easier. I have a bit of an opposite view for G21, and G22/23. I liked that there was things that I couldn't simply blast through and be half asleep in the meanwhile. But that's just one opinion. I'd reckon that if you used Divine Link and Mana shield, may end up having a bit of an easier time in what is essentially endgame content story-wise, not saying you'll breeze through it, but it shouldn't be nearly as painful and impossible as you make it out to be.
    DraechSherri
  • SytrieSytrie
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    edited November 6, 2019
    For the Talvish fight, the biggest issue I remember most people having is trying to kill him with the skills that he has 80% plot reduction towards (Firebolt, Final Hit, Bash, Chain Impale), and not avoiding his instant kill with Shield of Trust.
    I remember talvish doing his instant kill skill continuously didn't event let my shield of trust to cooldown lmao.
    I was about to crush my laptop with anger.
    The most important thing is bringing nao stones in case a glitch/accident/unfair action happens, because it happens.
    On the other hand, Talek fight was kinda tricky since it doesn't let you to die, but Talek wasn't unfair at all compared to alban hackers.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
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    Nothing is impossible (even if it seems that way). Now that I think back, I completed G21 before my Elf-character had even reached 5K cumulative, and, whilst I did at first struggle through some of those fights, due to how «strategic» I tend to be in my methods & approaches (because I have always historically taken on challenges that were meant for those who could figuratively punch FAR above my own weight so I'm rather used to it by now), I eventually managed to figure out how to win, but, I do have other characters that are either close to or able to start G21. I didn't think to video-record my boss-fights (or maybe I didn't have the software set-up for it yet). From what I can remember, I did make use of certain strategic methods to get me through, and I'll be sure to video-record what I did next time if/when I get to using the other character(s) so that others can use it as something of a «guide» for how they can go about beating those bosses. With that said, although I do not necessarily remember all of the exact details, here is what I remember about some of those boss-fights...:

    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row. I recall that I could just simply run in a straight line in the opposite direction away from her until all 3 teleports were completed (then I was probably counter-attacking immediately afterwards to do some damage if I remember correctly). I was able to avoid getting hit this way (but maybe that was because of using an Elf-character; Fleet-Feet and Alcapa-Robes can also help you move faster if you can get your digital-hands on any).

    The shield thing seemed to require hitting it something like 20x in less than 30 seconds or whatever time was allocated so I probably had to use WoTG with a fast Gun to break that barrier. I don't think there's any other efficient (or reliable) way to pull it off other than with a Gun. Just to be on the safe side, I also used Buff-Potions, Weapon-Power and Magic-Speed Potions, ate the food that Altam gives the Milletian-character, had JellyBeans of Strength and Lollipop of Intelligence, kind of really going all-out on stats-buffing myself with whatever Potions/Foods served said purpose, and, by the way, I was able to defeat Tagar on either my second or third attempt after having done some research-and-analysis of how to proceed. I think I only had to use 2-3 Nao-Stones on my successful attempt (if any).

    I think I also had another HUGE advantage compared other non-end-game Milletians due to the fact that I came up with the idea of Ranking my Spell-Walk all the way to Rank 1 some time ago, helping me further compensate for the fact that my character is not even a fraction of the way towards being end-game yet, and this allowed me to Full-Charge Fire-Ice Fusion-Bolt while running away from her for quick Burst-Damages against Tagar after her dodging her Triple-Teleportation.

    Doppelganger : For a while, I was just tossing Meteor-Striking, taking a 15-minute nap, then rinsing & repeating, but eventually ran out of time... then I had to re-do the fight again. Eventually, I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, then just defaulted to going into Beast-Transformed Demi-God mode, Shocking the Brionac, and just spam-Smashing as much Life as I could out of that Doppel-Ganger until finally completing the Mission. Not sure if I used Buff-Foods/Potions or not but it was really the only thing that I could think of doing after a while for purposes of inflicting enough DPS & Injury to counter-act against that insane Health-Regeneration.

    Talvish : This one took a while for me to figure out, but, eventually, I got used to the timing of when to block that Insta-Death-Wave attack, and, eventually, I figured out how to use that Nascent-Divinity attack with the correct timing for Max-Meter Damage, when I had originally just been trying to run around dodging while full-casting fusion-bolt to hit him, although I still had to use more than one Nao-Stone during that battle if I remember correctly (probably).

    Hassidim : I don't remember much detail, but, from what I can recall, this fight was really mostly all about timing and patience (probably).

    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    Ultimate Strategy ? Play and Main as a Giant of course.
  • DracobladeDracoblade
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    Habimaru wrote: »
    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    You're talking about the G21 Girgashy right? Thats a heck of a lot of effort you put in to kill something that can be 1 hit KO'd with a Judgement Blade...
  • SqueeSquee
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    Dracoblade wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    You're talking about the G21 Girgashy right? Thats a heck of a lot of effort you put in to kill something that can be 1 hit KO'd with a Judgement Blade...

    I think he's talking about G19 Girgishy. In missions he was very difficult to see, and most of the time you couldn't tell what he was going to do because he took up the whole screen (unless you were far away from him, in which case you couldn't hit him). And mineral hail is a pain to try and avoid. It's even worse that you have to use that to train Shield of Trust and Celestial Spike. The G21 fight with him is a bit of a joke, and I think it's one of those moments they tried to make nostalgic since a lot of the second half is about reconnecting with the beginning of the game a bit.
  • NilremNilrem
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    I mean, I've beaten G21 myself and generally had a simple time with most of it.

    But I won't give Talvish any freedom from being a pretty awful boss encounter.
    Maybe I'm just not a fan of instant kills.
    Especially instant kills that are used often.

    At least we got G22's pretty fun final afterwards.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    For me, Tagar was the hardest; mainly trying to get pillars to fall on it; this game needs to have some work done when it comes to directional movement. Some serious rework.

    Hasidim I beat without even knowing that I had to land critical hits when he pulled a soul.

    Doppelganger was actually easy for me. I just bashed it until it died. Heck, I didn't even know it had health regen until I fought it on my giant.

    Talvish is a bit unfair, since he can use an attack that seals your Crusader skills, following up with an attack that you have to stop with a Crusader skill, but that can be fixed by fixing his AI. Getting ND later in the fight makes the rest of the fight a joke.

    Also, the clones could be distracted with a Divine-Linked pet. Even if the Doppelganger doesn't aggro it, you at least get the clones off of your back.
  • FalskullFalskull
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    all i hear is waaa waaa waa baby noises cuz said player isnt good enough to play the game
  • KaibaAkayukiKaibaAkayuki
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    i just see an awful lot of complaining with no basis in this. im lvl 7k no reforges, pretty easily craftable gear. and i have completed all but the shakespeare questline. If you think its too hard why not actually check the wiki, yknow that thing that contains a stragey for almost every boss. and for everyone complaining about tagar and talvish. Have you tried using the Invinciblility frames in Chain Sweep and Anchor Rush. pay attention to what ur skills can ACTUALLY do. not just what u see at face value. anchor rush avoids 90% of talvish dmg and chain sweep can avoid the ground attack if ur in the air when tagar hits. srsly guys its not that hard.


  • DraechDraech
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    i just see an awful lot of complaining with no basis in this. im lvl 7k no reforges, pretty easily craftable gear. and i have completed all but the shakespeare questline. If you think its too hard why not actually check the wiki, yknow that thing that contains a stragey for almost every boss. and for everyone complaining about tagar and talvish. Have you tried using the Invinciblility frames in Chain Sweep and Anchor Rush. pay attention to what ur skills can ACTUALLY do. not just what u see at face value. anchor rush avoids 90% of talvish dmg and chain sweep can avoid the ground attack if ur in the air when tagar hits. srsly guys its not that hard.

    Actually, Tagar has had AI issues in the past (doesn't justify Talvish though). It would do things like Reaper Windmill every five seconds, which isn't enough time to deal any real damage to a pillar and dodge their attack, plus by the time you broke the pillar, Tagar would be under the ground preparing another Reaper Windmill.
    PlatinaKoki
  • SqueeSquee
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    edited November 14, 2019
    i just see an awful lot of complaining with no basis in this. im lvl 7k no reforges, pretty easily craftable gear. and i have completed all but the shakespeare questline. If you think its too hard why not actually check the wiki, yknow that thing that contains a stragey for almost every boss. and for everyone complaining about tagar and talvish. Have you tried using the Invinciblility frames in Chain Sweep and Anchor Rush. pay attention to what ur skills can ACTUALLY do. not just what u see at face value. anchor rush avoids 90% of talvish dmg and chain sweep can avoid the ground attack if ur in the air when tagar hits. srsly guys its not that hard.


    I did check the wiki, and the wiki didn't really help me at all. It really needs an update and more details on the fight Talvish, Doppelganger, and Tagar really don't have a lot of good strategies (Talvish fight tells you how to avoid certain skills, but doesn't tell you beyond "Use shield of trust to block the one hit kill and use judgement blade to stop the skill seal). The Tagar and Talvish fights especially need updates. I only managed to beat it due to some luck and a TON of temporary nao stones from VIP service that I got from other characters. I found a pretty easy strategy to pretty much ruin the doppelganger thanks to Discord, but Talvish was still a pain because he can seal the ONE skill you need to avoid his one hit kill move (which I personally HATE one hit kills because I generally find them unnecessary punishments, sometimes those punishments aren't because of things you did), and a moment's hesitation pretty much leads to pretty much an instant death in both the Tagar and Talvish fights. I did try the invincibility frames, but anchor rush is something Talvish can hit you even when you're doing that. I'm rank 1 anchor rush and Talvish still hit me right out of that skill, same with Tagar. Players should never have to use exploits in the game as the "real" strategy to avoid enemies or bosses. That's just poor design and it calls attention to the fact your game has exploits that can be done.

    Hasidim... Don't even get me started. I hate ALL of the apostles in the Divine Knights storylines. Girgashiy and Hasidim are the worst though. The only one I had little trouble with was Zebach, which was because he didn't do much during the storyline, and most of the fights were just "Survive for a minute until help saves you." so you could just run away and let the other knights tank while you just hide and wait. (Zebach also only does 1 damage because the fights are more story-based).

    I did beat G21, mostly only thanks to the advice I got on Discord that made the fights slightly easier (I will admit, the doppelganger was a breeze with the strategy I got on Discord, even if it's kind of cheap). But my opinion still stands that at LEAST the Tagar and Talvish fight needs a nerf. If Tagar removed that "under the ground" windmill attack, that fight would actually be pretty fair. And Talvish would even be fair if he didn't have the ability to one-shot you. It's one thing to make a mistake and be punished for it, but Talvish's ability to seal the one skill you need to avoid his one hit kill move is annoying. Not everyone likes overly hard games that punish players JUST for playing the game (which is what Tagar and Talvish are basically, they're unfair bosses pretty much only made to bully players).

    I mean, even the story in G21 is terrible. They set up a great fight with Cichol only to make Talvish the final villain for shock value and it didn't even really make sense for his story for him to be the Elder and suddenly have him as someone who wants to do whatever he did (I'll be honest, my attention span didn't care enough about his plan to remember it). And then there was the Cichol moment, where you think you're gonna fight him, but he summons a doppelganger instead? Like, why does Cichol even bother when the Miletian has beaten his Doppelganger before? And where does the doppelganger this time even come from?

    Not to mention 90% of the Divine Knights story is chase the Apostles down to stop them from doing their thing, win a fight, then for some reason the Apostles get away to repeat the whole process again. It made for a real boring storyline set. Even when you're exploring new areas, it's only to chase down the Apostles who just seem to vanish when you beat them down. I know they won't change the story, but I just think everything in the Alban Knights storyline was awful. So far G22 seems to be a bit of an improvement in terms of story from what little I played so far (even though I had a hard time at a few spots before I knew what to do, but that I will admit is on me not reading the wiki before I do the missions.) Personally, I wish I'd have skipped the Divine Knights story entirely, but unfortunately, I like playing things in order, and people kept telling me that I was gonna need divine link for G22/G23, and I was gonna want Nascent Divinity for a few random moments.
  • Atheist42Atheist42
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    I'm currently stuck on Doppleganger. It seems to be lag sensitive. So there are posts saying "It's easy; just do this", while those of us further away from the server find we can't do that.

    Hit the doppelganger continuously to overcome its health regeneration? I can't even manage to get the first hit to land because the doppelganger seems to teleport straight on top of me before I can reach it. If I try to charge it, my character can freeze for half a second partway through the rush, giving the doppelganger time to teleport to me.

    Use anchor rush to jump out of range when it starts draining my health points? I can't even get Anchor Rush to load, let alone activate the jump.

    What's really bugs me is I can't figure out WHY this quest causes lag. I can play "Defeat the Shadow Wizard" without any of the above issues. That mission has all the complex housing of Tailteann, 8 players who may go 8 different directions and hit 8 different orbs, so there can easily be 40-odd mobs active simultaneously. By contrast, the G21 Doppelganger mission has 1 player, 5 mobs and is in a single small room with no complex architecture, but suddenly I've got so much lag I can't even load Counterattack to interrupt a single attacker? What's going on?

    OK. Doppelganger's single small room is circular. Early in gaming history dungeon rooms were rectangular rather than circular because collision detection for the room boundary was computationally more expensive for curves than straight lines. Surely that's not still an issue these days.
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,285
    Posts: 156
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    Atheist42 wrote: »
    I'm currently stuck on Doppleganger. It seems to be lag sensitive. So there are posts saying "It's easy; just do this", while those of us further away from the server find we can't do that.

    Hit the doppelganger continuously to overcome its health regeneration? I can't even manage to get the first hit to land because the doppelganger seems to teleport straight on top of me before I can reach it. If I try to charge it, my character can freeze for half a second partway through the rush, giving the doppelganger time to teleport to me.

    Use anchor rush to jump out of range when it starts draining my health points? I can't even get Anchor Rush to load, let alone activate the jump.

    What's really bugs me is I can't figure out WHY this quest causes lag. I can play "Defeat the Shadow Wizard" without any of the above issues. That mission has all the complex housing of Tailteann, 8 players who may go 8 different directions and hit 8 different orbs, so there can easily be 40-odd mobs active simultaneously. By contrast, the G21 Doppelganger mission has 1 player, 5 mobs and is in a single small room with no complex architecture, but suddenly I've got so much lag I can't even load Counterattack to interrupt a single attacker? What's going on?

    OK. Doppelganger's single small room is circular. Early in gaming history dungeon rooms were rectangular rather than circular because collision detection for the room boundary was computationally more expensive for curves than straight lines. Surely that's not still an issue these days.

    Okay... Here's the strategy I was given that worked REALLY well and made short work of this jerk. If you have Brionac, use demi and normal attack with brionac, and every hit will lower his protection/defense. You don't need to fight the doppelganger clones, just lure the master doppelganger to the outer edge of the arena. Use demi-brionac normal attack over and over again (you will probably get hit by his alchemy a few times), and then afterward, just hit him with normal physical attacks (I was using chain impale and just ruined him.). If you do it right, you'll be doing way more damage than he can regenerate. Or just use a good physical weapon. From what I was told, physical combat has to be used, not magic because brionac takes protection, not magic protection.

    When he uses Shadow Spirit, use anchor rush to get away from it and you shouldn't take damage. You don't have to even mess with the orbs.

    As for lag, I can't really account for that. I beat the mission even with lag (Because I was playing the game on wifi at the time like an idiot.) But this strategy that was given to me on discord worked like a charm.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,525
    Posts: 2,728
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    Talvish is poorly explained. They really ought to give a grace period in the second phase so one can get used to the new Divinity Transformation. It is the fight where I died a lot because I was under the impression that Divinity was necessary to kill him, and figuring out how the damage multipliers worked.

    I hate Tagar and bosses similar to her, but the issue is inherent with movement and the Pleione engine; Mabinogi isn't built on an engine built for melee with lots of movement, unlike Vindictus and the source engine. The lag is annoying, and the delay between pet mounting and walking over to the boss, then trying to melee them (If that's your style) is nothing short of awful.
    Atheist42
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,150
    Posts: 1,079
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    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.