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NERF G21. IMPOSSIBLE BOSSES ARE NOT FUN TO FIGHT.

Comments

  • LutetiumLutetium
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,120
    Posts: 223
    Member
    Generations are DPS checks to ensure you've ranked enough skills to do enough damage before they give you the new skills to enable more damage. The solution is simply to rank skills and try again when you can hit things harder.
    Many people will not like this solution but they simply want something for free without putting in the effort to earn it, this is again a symptom of people brought up with instant gratification and "everyone gets a medal" culture playing a video game that predates these things and expects you to actually achieve something before it rewards you to bestow the feeling of actually earning it.
    If thousands of players have managed to complete the content in all the regions the game operates the content clearly is possible to complete and does not need nerfed.

    BONUS: If you find the content difficult but complete it anyway you get to feel the extra accomplishment of being skilled enough at the gameplay to overcome the deficit of not being at the DPS check's expected standard.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,910
    Posts: 272
    Member
    edited December 9, 2019
    That is kind of what I do, but I wouldn't necessarily call myself skilled, more like, I just take more «strategic» approaches to the challenges.
    Granted, I have to admit fault for not full-upgrading all of my equipment yet, nor reforging all equipment yet, nor enchanting all equipment yet.

    .

    .

    .

    Yeah... I should... probably get all of that done... eventually...

    Edit/Addendum : Also, I should have thought more carefully about it and did my research first, before listing my +20 Max Chain Blade Damage Ladeca-Eweca Amulet onto the AH for only 1mil (not that I've bothered to rank the Chain-Blade Tab much yet). Fortunately, comparable Events do come around maybe 2-3 times a year, and so I will just have to be patient in order to be able to compensate for my past mistakes.
    Lutetium wrote: »
    BONUS: If you find the content difficult but complete it anyway you get to feel the extra accomplishment of being skilled enough at the gameplay to overcome the deficit of not being at the DPS check's expected standard.
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    Lutetium wrote: »
    Generations are DPS checks to ensure you've ranked enough skills to do enough damage before they give you the new skills to enable more damage. The solution is simply to rank skills and try again when you can hit things harder.
    Many people will not like this solution but they simply want something for free without putting in the effort to earn it, this is again a symptom of people brought up with instant gratification and "everyone gets a medal" culture playing a video game that predates these things and expects you to actually achieve something before it rewards you to bestow the feeling of actually earning it.
    If thousands of players have managed to complete the content in all the regions the game operates the content clearly is possible to complete and does not need nerfed.

    BONUS: If you find the content difficult but complete it anyway you get to feel the extra accomplishment of being skilled enough at the gameplay to overcome the deficit of not being at the DPS check's expected standard.

    What you expect is for a game to be FAIR. I fully expect games to test you and try to make you think strategically to find the best strategies available. However, games should NEVER rely on exploits and glitches as legit strategies for fights like they do in G21. The other generations are fine, but G21... I don't know what the heck they did with Hasidim and Talvish, but those are not fair. Making a game difficult is fine. But making a game fair is essential.

    Not only that, the stats the game expects you to have after reaching higher levels are just ludicrous. I have mastered almost all but like 5 talents and Rank 1'd a LOT of the combat talents (Only combat talents I haven't done are Archery, Ninja and Martial arts). However, my stats are NOWHERE near where the game expects for a lot of things especially in the game now where after G21, it seems like the game got a lot more difficult for no reason. Even people I've talked to that ARE at higher damage levels than me admit this game expects that you have to have REALLY ridiculous stats at times. For example, Rabbie Phantasm is a dungeon someone at my level (FYI I'm like 13K total level) should not have an issue with, but the enemies in the first room KO me in like 2 hits. By the time the game gives me the mission to do the Rabbie Phantasm, I should have been able to at least reach that level.

    I don't know how to get my stats any higher. Even with decent reforges, mostly rank 1'd skills and good weapons, I can't seem to get the stats the game wants me to have. It would be so bad if the game would tell me what it wants at times. For example, in Peaca, the enemies there often are immune to one talent completely, like the ghosts being immune to magic. That's fine because you can adapt. But in a dungeon like Rabbie Phantasm, the enemies just take my hits and their health doesn't go down at all. I just don't know what the game expects from me. I'm not THAT far below all the higher level people but I just can't ever do enough damage, and Nexon swears up and down that my stats are all correct and my damage is what I should be doing.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,125
    Posts: 1,070
    Member
    edited December 15, 2019
    Oh if your having trouble with Hasidim, he is pretty easy to tank if your mana shield and with enough magic attack like 340+ will do to make all of his attacks not one shot ya

    Hasidim is the only raid Apostle similar to Girgashiy that can be tanked alone with Mana shield if your Magic attack is high enough.

    Even something like it's own version of mineral hail does nothing at all once your mana shield is up. As far as I know Hasidim does fixed damage while Girgashiy does damage depending on your Max HP.
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    Oh if your having trouble with Hasidim, he is pretty easy to tank if your mana shield and with enough magic attack like 340+ will do to make all of his attacks not one shot ya

    Hasidim is the only raid Apostle similar to Girgashiy that can be tanked alone with Mana shield if your Magic attack is high enough.

    Even something like it's own version of mineral hail does nothing at all once your mana shield is up. As far as I know Hasidim does fixed damage while Girgashiy does damage depending on your Max HP.

    That was an example... But Hasidim does like 900 damage to me in one go, and sometimes my mana shield doesn't tank the hit. But it doesn't matter anyway, because fights should be about using skill to avoid attacks, not being REQUIRED to take damage. It's absolutely stupid that this game relies on you having to tank damage, but then does certain things like Talvish's fight where he can one shot you if you try to tank his one-hit kill or if his crusador skill seal hits you because you didn't hit the button in time. The game after G18 has become far more tedious than it should be, and the tediousness of the game has only gotten worse as time goes on. It used to be that the most tedious thing in the game was Tailteann Defense shadow mission, but that at least gives you a good amount of EXP and gold for winning and is FAIR. Most of the game after G18 doesn't care about fairness. They just punish players for no reason most of the time. G19 and G20 aren't too bad, just tedious more than hard.
  • LutetiumLutetium
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,120
    Posts: 223
    Member
    Squee wrote: »
    What you expect is for a game to be FAIR.
    Play "I wanna be the guy" sometime.
    Squee wrote: »
    However, games should NEVER rely on exploits and glitches as legit strategies for fights like they do in G21. The other generations are fine, but G21... I don't know what the heck they did with Hasidim and Talvish, but those are not fair. Making a game difficult is fine. But making a game fair is essential.
    They don't rely on "exploits and glitches" to beat and I have no idea where you come up with that notion, but you just need use Shield of Trust at the correct time. Spam mp pots with mana shield and take a bunch of naos if you're bad at the timing, the game is infinitely forgiving.
    Squee wrote: »
    However, my stats are NOWHERE near where the game expects for a lot of things especially in the game now where after G21, it seems like the game got a lot more difficult for no reason.
    Rank life skills, use divine link, use caters, get to 40k total and 200 current for max shine of eweca bonuses.
    Squee wrote: »
    (FYI I'm like 13K total level) should not have an issue with, but the enemies in the first room KO me in like 2 hits. By the time the game gives me the mission to do the Rabbie Phantasm, I should have been able to at least reach that level.
    13k total but it takes around 36k ap to max every skill and the passive stat boosts from shine of eweca don't cap out until 40k total. Many game kill you in 1 hit and make you start over, not so much as a phoenix feather like Mabi, this is a very forgiving game albeit not complete baby mode like a cellphone touch screen game.
    Squee wrote: »
    I don't know how to get my stats any higher. Even with decent reforges, mostly rank 1'd skills and good weapons, I can't seem to get the stats the game wants me to have. It would be so bad if the game would tell me what it wants at times.
    See above.
    Squee wrote: »
    For example, in Peaca, the enemies there often are immune to one talent completely, like the ghosts being immune to magic. That's fine because you can adapt. But in a dungeon like Rabbie Phantasm, the enemies just take my hits and their health doesn't go down at all. I just don't know what the game expects from me. I'm not THAT far below all the higher level people but I just can't ever do enough damage, and Nexon swears up and down that my stats are all correct and my damage is what I should be doing.
    The simple fact is you're a lot further behind than you believe you are, and are just being arrogant believing achievements should be delivered on a silver platter because you made it out of the early game into the early midgame and that all gameplay challenges should now be switched to baby mode automatically. I'm not trying to berate you or anything but that's how you're coming off.
    Challenging content is suppose to be challenging even when you meet the DPS requirements to clear it otherwise theres no sense locking higher tier rewards behind it.

    TL;DR just rank the rest of your skills and grind your total.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,125
    Posts: 1,070
    Member
    edited December 15, 2019
    I mean after G18 Your fighting more "stronger" foes each generation. So of course it should be tedious at some point although I guess I can't mix gameplay and story into one huh?

    Although I do understand since I am a squishy elf and things like Balor is a pain in the bootie as well as Tech Gate for a boss.

    I still find it funny how Hasidim's fierce charge is hard to avoid but can be avoided by using an evasion that is yet to be uncapped although even that is rng.
    Sherri
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    Most of the time evasion doesn't even really do anything. That's why I never use it. Balor wasn't really too bad except for that ONE undodgable move he has that he can literally teleport to you and grab you no matter where you are or what you do. And a few enemies after G18 have that: Undodgable movies that have the potential to ruin you but you can't do anything about it.

    I don't mind hard fights, and I like that the later generations ramp things up a little. But it should be fun and make you think strategically, not just punish you with undodgable attacks and missions that require stats you can't really achieve without using pay to win methods.
  • timeeatertimeeater
    Mabinogi Rep: 400
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited January 6
    Alshian wrote: »
    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.

    Tagar is a buggy mess and should really REALLY REALLY get fixed already.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row.

    no it doesn't she doesn't stop spamming it until her hp is at 78%
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    timeeater wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.

    Tagar is a buggy mess and should really REALLY REALLY get fixed already.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row.

    no it doesn't she doesn't stop spamming it until her hp is at 78%

    Against me she did it almost nonstop the entire fight. That's why that fight was such a pain in the ass. And it didn't help I was lagging at the time, which got me killed far more than it should have. Even if I hadn't been lagging though, that move is not something a boss should be able to spam on you. I was legitimately gonna quit the game if I encountered Tagar again at any point throughout the story after that fight, so it's good that it was only that one time we have to fight her.
  • timeeatertimeeater
    Mabinogi Rep: 400
    Posts: 6
    Member
    edited January 6
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Nothing is impossible (even if it seems that way). Now that I think back, I completed G21 before my Elf-character had even reached 5K cumulative, and, whilst I did at first struggle through some of those fights, due to how «strategic» I tend to be in my methods & approaches (because I have always historically taken on challenges that were meant for those who could figuratively punch FAR above my own weight so I'm rather used to it by now), I eventually managed to figure out how to win, but, I do have other characters that are either close to or able to start G21. I didn't think to video-record my boss-fights (or maybe I didn't have the software set-up for it yet). From what I can remember, I did make use of certain strategic methods to get me through, and I'll be sure to video-record what I did next time if/when I get to using the other character(s) so that others can use it as something of a «guide» for how they can go about beating those bosses. With that said, although I do not necessarily remember all of the exact details, here is what I remember about some of those boss-fights...:

    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row. I recall that I could just simply run in a straight line in the opposite direction away from her until all 3 teleports were completed (then I was probably counter-attacking immediately afterwards to do some damage if I remember correctly). I was able to avoid getting hit this way (but maybe that was because of using an Elf-character; Fleet-Feet and Alcapa-Robes can also help you move faster if you can get your digital-hands on any).

    The shield thing seemed to require hitting it something like 20x in less than 30 seconds or whatever time was allocated so I probably had to use WoTG with a fast Gun to break that barrier. I don't think there's any other efficient (or reliable) way to pull it off other than with a Gun. Just to be on the safe side, I also used Buff-Potions, Weapon-Power and Magic-Speed Potions, ate the food that Altam gives the Milletian-character, had JellyBeans of Strength and Lollipop of Intelligence, kind of really going all-out on stats-buffing myself with whatever Potions/Foods served said purpose, and, by the way, I was able to defeat Tagar on either my second or third attempt after having done some research-and-analysis of how to proceed. I think I only had to use 2-3 Nao-Stones on my successful attempt (if any).

    I think I also had another HUGE advantage compared other non-end-game Milletians due to the fact that I came up with the idea of Ranking my Spell-Walk all the way to Rank 1 some time ago, helping me further compensate for the fact that my character is not even a fraction of the way towards being end-game yet, and this allowed me to Full-Charge Fire-Ice Fusion-Bolt while running away from her for quick Burst-Damages against Tagar after her dodging her Triple-Teleportation.

    Doppelganger : For a while, I was just tossing Meteor-Striking, taking a 15-minute nap, then rinsing & repeating, but eventually ran out of time... then I had to re-do the fight again. Eventually, I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, then just defaulted to going into Beast-Transformed Demi-God mode, Shocking the Brionac, and just spam-Smashing as much Life as I could out of that Doppel-Ganger until finally completing the Mission. Not sure if I used Buff-Foods/Potions or not but it was really the only thing that I could think of doing after a while for purposes of inflicting enough DPS & Injury to counter-act against that insane Health-Regeneration.

    Talvish : This one took a while for me to figure out, but, eventually, I got used to the timing of when to block that Insta-Death-Wave attack, and, eventually, I figured out how to use that Nascent-Divinity attack with the correct timing for Max-Meter Damage, when I had originally just been trying to run around dodging while full-casting fusion-bolt to hit him, although I still had to use more than one Nao-Stone during that battle if I remember correctly (probably).

    Hassidim : I don't remember much detail, but, from what I can recall, this fight was really mostly all about timing and patience (probably).

    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    Ultimate Strategy ? Play and Main as a Giant of course.
    Squee wrote: »
    timeeater wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.

    Tagar is a buggy mess and should really REALLY REALLY get fixed already.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row.

    no it doesn't she doesn't stop spamming it until her hp is at 78%

    Against me she did it almost nonstop the entire fight. That's why that fight was such a pain in the ass. And it didn't help I was lagging at the time, which got me killed far more than it should have. Even if I hadn't been lagging though, that move is not something a boss should be able to spam on you. I was legitimately gonna quit the game if I encountered Tagar again at any point throughout the story after that fight, so it's good that it was only that one time we have to fight her.

    I've decided to quit the game till they fix this stupid boss.

    its animation broke this last time i tried fighting it and literally turned invisible for the entire boss fight.

    future advice if you even care nexon. don't make bosses that become immune to attacks by diving under ground and having that attack have stupidly high damage while being near unavoidable and they can spam it.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 42,625
    Posts: 6,124
    Member
    timeeater wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Nothing is impossible (even if it seems that way). Now that I think back, I completed G21 before my Elf-character had even reached 5K cumulative, and, whilst I did at first struggle through some of those fights, due to how «strategic» I tend to be in my methods & approaches (because I have always historically taken on challenges that were meant for those who could figuratively punch FAR above my own weight so I'm rather used to it by now), I eventually managed to figure out how to win, but, I do have other characters that are either close to or able to start G21. I didn't think to video-record my boss-fights (or maybe I didn't have the software set-up for it yet). From what I can remember, I did make use of certain strategic methods to get me through, and I'll be sure to video-record what I did next time if/when I get to using the other character(s) so that others can use it as something of a «guide» for how they can go about beating those bosses. With that said, although I do not necessarily remember all of the exact details, here is what I remember about some of those boss-fights...:

    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row. I recall that I could just simply run in a straight line in the opposite direction away from her until all 3 teleports were completed (then I was probably counter-attacking immediately afterwards to do some damage if I remember correctly). I was able to avoid getting hit this way (but maybe that was because of using an Elf-character; Fleet-Feet and Alcapa-Robes can also help you move faster if you can get your digital-hands on any).

    The shield thing seemed to require hitting it something like 20x in less than 30 seconds or whatever time was allocated so I probably had to use WoTG with a fast Gun to break that barrier. I don't think there's any other efficient (or reliable) way to pull it off other than with a Gun. Just to be on the safe side, I also used Buff-Potions, Weapon-Power and Magic-Speed Potions, ate the food that Altam gives the Milletian-character, had JellyBeans of Strength and Lollipop of Intelligence, kind of really going all-out on stats-buffing myself with whatever Potions/Foods served said purpose, and, by the way, I was able to defeat Tagar on either my second or third attempt after having done some research-and-analysis of how to proceed. I think I only had to use 2-3 Nao-Stones on my successful attempt (if any).

    I think I also had another HUGE advantage compared other non-end-game Milletians due to the fact that I came up with the idea of Ranking my Spell-Walk all the way to Rank 1 some time ago, helping me further compensate for the fact that my character is not even a fraction of the way towards being end-game yet, and this allowed me to Full-Charge Fire-Ice Fusion-Bolt while running away from her for quick Burst-Damages against Tagar after her dodging her Triple-Teleportation.

    Doppelganger : For a while, I was just tossing Meteor-Striking, taking a 15-minute nap, then rinsing & repeating, but eventually ran out of time... then I had to re-do the fight again. Eventually, I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, then just defaulted to going into Beast-Transformed Demi-God mode, Shocking the Brionac, and just spam-Smashing as much Life as I could out of that Doppel-Ganger until finally completing the Mission. Not sure if I used Buff-Foods/Potions or not but it was really the only thing that I could think of doing after a while for purposes of inflicting enough DPS & Injury to counter-act against that insane Health-Regeneration.

    Talvish : This one took a while for me to figure out, but, eventually, I got used to the timing of when to block that Insta-Death-Wave attack, and, eventually, I figured out how to use that Nascent-Divinity attack with the correct timing for Max-Meter Damage, when I had originally just been trying to run around dodging while full-casting fusion-bolt to hit him, although I still had to use more than one Nao-Stone during that battle if I remember correctly (probably).

    Hassidim : I don't remember much detail, but, from what I can recall, this fight was really mostly all about timing and patience (probably).

    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    Ultimate Strategy ? Play and Main as a Giant of course.
    Squee wrote: »
    timeeater wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.

    Tagar is a buggy mess and should really REALLY REALLY get fixed already.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row.

    no it doesn't she doesn't stop spamming it until her hp is at 78%

    Against me she did it almost nonstop the entire fight. That's why that fight was such a pain in the ass. And it didn't help I was lagging at the time, which got me killed far more than it should have. Even if I hadn't been lagging though, that move is not something a boss should be able to spam on you. I was legitimately gonna quit the game if I encountered Tagar again at any point throughout the story after that fight, so it's good that it was only that one time we have to fight her.

    I've decided to quit the game till they fix this stupid boss.

    its animation broke this last time i tried fighting it and literally turned invisible for the entire boss fight.

    future advice if you even care nexon. don't make bosses that become immune to attacks by diving under ground and having that attack have stupidly high damage while being near unavoidable and they can spam it.

    It's really easy to avoid. He goes into ground and you just jump on mount and run around till he appears again and misses you.
  • timeeatertimeeater
    Mabinogi Rep: 400
    Posts: 6
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    timeeater wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Nothing is impossible (even if it seems that way). Now that I think back, I completed G21 before my Elf-character had even reached 5K cumulative, and, whilst I did at first struggle through some of those fights, due to how «strategic» I tend to be in my methods & approaches (because I have always historically taken on challenges that were meant for those who could figuratively punch FAR above my own weight so I'm rather used to it by now), I eventually managed to figure out how to win, but, I do have other characters that are either close to or able to start G21. I didn't think to video-record my boss-fights (or maybe I didn't have the software set-up for it yet). From what I can remember, I did make use of certain strategic methods to get me through, and I'll be sure to video-record what I did next time if/when I get to using the other character(s) so that others can use it as something of a «guide» for how they can go about beating those bosses. With that said, although I do not necessarily remember all of the exact details, here is what I remember about some of those boss-fights...:

    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row. I recall that I could just simply run in a straight line in the opposite direction away from her until all 3 teleports were completed (then I was probably counter-attacking immediately afterwards to do some damage if I remember correctly). I was able to avoid getting hit this way (but maybe that was because of using an Elf-character; Fleet-Feet and Alcapa-Robes can also help you move faster if you can get your digital-hands on any).

    The shield thing seemed to require hitting it something like 20x in less than 30 seconds or whatever time was allocated so I probably had to use WoTG with a fast Gun to break that barrier. I don't think there's any other efficient (or reliable) way to pull it off other than with a Gun. Just to be on the safe side, I also used Buff-Potions, Weapon-Power and Magic-Speed Potions, ate the food that Altam gives the Milletian-character, had JellyBeans of Strength and Lollipop of Intelligence, kind of really going all-out on stats-buffing myself with whatever Potions/Foods served said purpose, and, by the way, I was able to defeat Tagar on either my second or third attempt after having done some research-and-analysis of how to proceed. I think I only had to use 2-3 Nao-Stones on my successful attempt (if any).

    I think I also had another HUGE advantage compared other non-end-game Milletians due to the fact that I came up with the idea of Ranking my Spell-Walk all the way to Rank 1 some time ago, helping me further compensate for the fact that my character is not even a fraction of the way towards being end-game yet, and this allowed me to Full-Charge Fire-Ice Fusion-Bolt while running away from her for quick Burst-Damages against Tagar after her dodging her Triple-Teleportation.

    Doppelganger : For a while, I was just tossing Meteor-Striking, taking a 15-minute nap, then rinsing & repeating, but eventually ran out of time... then I had to re-do the fight again. Eventually, I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, then just defaulted to going into Beast-Transformed Demi-God mode, Shocking the Brionac, and just spam-Smashing as much Life as I could out of that Doppel-Ganger until finally completing the Mission. Not sure if I used Buff-Foods/Potions or not but it was really the only thing that I could think of doing after a while for purposes of inflicting enough DPS & Injury to counter-act against that insane Health-Regeneration.

    Talvish : This one took a while for me to figure out, but, eventually, I got used to the timing of when to block that Insta-Death-Wave attack, and, eventually, I figured out how to use that Nascent-Divinity attack with the correct timing for Max-Meter Damage, when I had originally just been trying to run around dodging while full-casting fusion-bolt to hit him, although I still had to use more than one Nao-Stone during that battle if I remember correctly (probably).

    Hassidim : I don't remember much detail, but, from what I can recall, this fight was really mostly all about timing and patience (probably).

    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    Ultimate Strategy ? Play and Main as a Giant of course.
    Squee wrote: »
    timeeater wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.

    Tagar is a buggy mess and should really REALLY REALLY get fixed already.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row.

    no it doesn't she doesn't stop spamming it until her hp is at 78%

    Against me she did it almost nonstop the entire fight. That's why that fight was such a pain in the ass. And it didn't help I was lagging at the time, which got me killed far more than it should have. Even if I hadn't been lagging though, that move is not something a boss should be able to spam on you. I was legitimately gonna quit the game if I encountered Tagar again at any point throughout the story after that fight, so it's good that it was only that one time we have to fight her.

    I've decided to quit the game till they fix this stupid boss.

    its animation broke this last time i tried fighting it and literally turned invisible for the entire boss fight.

    future advice if you even care nexon. don't make bosses that become immune to attacks by diving under ground and having that attack have stupidly high damage while being near unavoidable and they can spam it.

    It's really easy to avoid. He goes into ground and you just jump on mount and run around till he appears again and misses you.

    and then they do it over and over and over and eventually you time out.
  • FalskullFalskull
    Mabinogi Rep: 985
    Posts: 28
    Member
    timeeater wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    timeeater wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    Nothing is impossible (even if it seems that way). Now that I think back, I completed G21 before my Elf-character had even reached 5K cumulative, and, whilst I did at first struggle through some of those fights, due to how «strategic» I tend to be in my methods & approaches (because I have always historically taken on challenges that were meant for those who could figuratively punch FAR above my own weight so I'm rather used to it by now), I eventually managed to figure out how to win, but, I do have other characters that are either close to or able to start G21. I didn't think to video-record my boss-fights (or maybe I didn't have the software set-up for it yet). From what I can remember, I did make use of certain strategic methods to get me through, and I'll be sure to video-record what I did next time if/when I get to using the other character(s) so that others can use it as something of a «guide» for how they can go about beating those bosses. With that said, although I do not necessarily remember all of the exact details, here is what I remember about some of those boss-fights...:

    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row. I recall that I could just simply run in a straight line in the opposite direction away from her until all 3 teleports were completed (then I was probably counter-attacking immediately afterwards to do some damage if I remember correctly). I was able to avoid getting hit this way (but maybe that was because of using an Elf-character; Fleet-Feet and Alcapa-Robes can also help you move faster if you can get your digital-hands on any).

    The shield thing seemed to require hitting it something like 20x in less than 30 seconds or whatever time was allocated so I probably had to use WoTG with a fast Gun to break that barrier. I don't think there's any other efficient (or reliable) way to pull it off other than with a Gun. Just to be on the safe side, I also used Buff-Potions, Weapon-Power and Magic-Speed Potions, ate the food that Altam gives the Milletian-character, had JellyBeans of Strength and Lollipop of Intelligence, kind of really going all-out on stats-buffing myself with whatever Potions/Foods served said purpose, and, by the way, I was able to defeat Tagar on either my second or third attempt after having done some research-and-analysis of how to proceed. I think I only had to use 2-3 Nao-Stones on my successful attempt (if any).

    I think I also had another HUGE advantage compared other non-end-game Milletians due to the fact that I came up with the idea of Ranking my Spell-Walk all the way to Rank 1 some time ago, helping me further compensate for the fact that my character is not even a fraction of the way towards being end-game yet, and this allowed me to Full-Charge Fire-Ice Fusion-Bolt while running away from her for quick Burst-Damages against Tagar after her dodging her Triple-Teleportation.

    Doppelganger : For a while, I was just tossing Meteor-Striking, taking a 15-minute nap, then rinsing & repeating, but eventually ran out of time... then I had to re-do the fight again. Eventually, I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, then just defaulted to going into Beast-Transformed Demi-God mode, Shocking the Brionac, and just spam-Smashing as much Life as I could out of that Doppel-Ganger until finally completing the Mission. Not sure if I used Buff-Foods/Potions or not but it was really the only thing that I could think of doing after a while for purposes of inflicting enough DPS & Injury to counter-act against that insane Health-Regeneration.

    Talvish : This one took a while for me to figure out, but, eventually, I got used to the timing of when to block that Insta-Death-Wave attack, and, eventually, I figured out how to use that Nascent-Divinity attack with the correct timing for Max-Meter Damage, when I had originally just been trying to run around dodging while full-casting fusion-bolt to hit him, although I still had to use more than one Nao-Stone during that battle if I remember correctly (probably).

    Hassidim : I don't remember much detail, but, from what I can recall, this fight was really mostly all about timing and patience (probably).

    Girgashy : This one was definitely hax. Nowhere to avoid its mineral-hail, obstacles/trees were completely useless, and I think I even ended up using a whole bunch of Guardian-Stones for this particular fight, but, eventually, I think I probably just grabbed a fast Gun & spammed WoTG between each time I had to revive from a Guardian-Stone, and making use of that short Immunity Period to get in as much DPS as possible before I could be counter-attacked.

    Ultimate Strategy ? Play and Main as a Giant of course.
    Squee wrote: »
    timeeater wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    When G21 was out I completed it with a rather weak and squishy elf...

    Was it a pain? Yes
    Was it impossible? No
    Do you need common sense and wisdom? Yes
    Can you do that with little to no intellect? Maybe

    My only beef was with Tagar, she is able to deal 95% of my HP in a single hit with the teleporting only to sweeping with her scythe.

    I tried evasion, HA no...Not even uncapped (WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????)
    Defense skill? (who even use that anymore?)
    Counter? Yea like that will ever help.
    Just running? If your a human good luck with that although your more of a tank than a elf so don't go crying if your not prepared.
    Tumble? If you time it real well, because your body STILL exist where you tumbled from till the animation ends making it crap in my eyes.

    Then finally I used Anchor rush, it is more reliable than any evasive skills, I even figured out it gave ya "I frames" where nothing can touch ya till animation ends. After knowing this I managed to defeat what is the WALL in the story in my Dark Souls gameplay because it felt like Dark Souls since it finally took me "Skill" to beat it.

    Everything else is much more easy than this joke of a mechanic boss Tagar.

    Tagar is a buggy mess and should really REALLY REALLY get fixed already.

    Habimaru wrote: »
    Tagar : Her Teleport-Move stops after 3x times in a row.

    no it doesn't she doesn't stop spamming it until her hp is at 78%

    Against me she did it almost nonstop the entire fight. That's why that fight was such a pain in the ass. And it didn't help I was lagging at the time, which got me killed far more than it should have. Even if I hadn't been lagging though, that move is not something a boss should be able to spam on you. I was legitimately gonna quit the game if I encountered Tagar again at any point throughout the story after that fight, so it's good that it was only that one time we have to fight her.

    I've decided to quit the game till they fix this stupid boss.

    its animation broke this last time i tried fighting it and literally turned invisible for the entire boss fight.

    future advice if you even care nexon. don't make bosses that become immune to attacks by diving under ground and having that attack have stupidly high damage while being near unavoidable and they can spam it.

    It's really easy to avoid. He goes into ground and you just jump on mount and run around till he appears again and misses you.

    and then they do it over and over and over and eventually you time out.

    huh sounds like a entitled player that cant be bothered to learn how to play the game to me
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,125
    Posts: 1,070
    Member
    I'll say this again, its not impossible, if your too weak, come back stronger or at least more knowledgeable than before.

    Not every game is suppose to hold hands. If I can beat this Generation with a squishy elf I am sure you can complete this with a human or giant no problem but if your an elf anyways, well get gud.
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    I'll say this again, its not impossible, if your too weak, come back stronger or at least more knowledgeable than before.

    Not every game is suppose to hold hands. If I can beat this Generation with a squishy elf I am sure you can complete this with a human or giant no problem but if your an elf anyways, well get gud.

    There's a difference between needing skill to win a fight, and just giving bosses unfair advantages. Tagar's teleport move being so spammable is complete crap because she can spend a good 90% of the fight out of attack range, and when you get close enough she goes underground again. It's not about being strong, it's about these bosses needing major fixing because they're broken just to make the boss needlessly difficult. And I've been noticing that after G19 a lot of the main bosses in the game have unavoidable techniques that can't be dodged or blocked. For example, Talvish's instant death attack can hit you because he will always be in range to attack since you cannot summon pets in that mission. And he can seal the one skill you need to defend against that attack. If that one instant death attack would be removed, the fight would actually be fair. Almost all of these bosses have ONE unfair mechanic that ruins the fun of the fight. Tagar wouldn't be so bad if they just made it where she didn't spam that teleport move over and over and over again (Because she does spam it for a good 90% of the fight.)

    Bosses don't have to be easy. But they DO have to be fair. Tagar and Talvish are jerks designed to punish players just for playing that storyline. If you removed their ONE unfair advantage, they'd actually be fairly balanced fights and I wouldn't be here complaining about them. Tagar just needs to not spam that teleport, and Talvish needs that one hit kill move to like take half health or something if you don't dodge it (because instant kill is BS when he constantly seals your use of the ONE skill you need to avoid it, and if you hesitate and don't use Judgement Blade on that one moment at the right time, you're dead because he WILL do the instant kill before you're unsealed).

    I've noticed that after G19, with exception of G20 (because most of the fights boil down to "Survive for so long and then kill this guy that does one damage to you"), all of the bosses have one move that is designed to be unfair. Girgishiy can teleport to you and grab you, Tagar teleports around most of the fight and isn't attackable during that time even though she can sometimes teleport right on top of you for no reason even if you're running away and on a pet, Talvish, I've already explained his one hit kill crap that should not be an instant death. G22 Balor ALSO has a teleport grab you CANNOT avoid or dodge or block because this game just seems to hate it's players.

    We're not asking for an easy game. We're asking for a fair one. This game has a ton of glitches and BS design flaws that ruin the game for people, especially after G19. Before that, it wasn't perfect, but at least it tried to be fair.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,125
    Posts: 1,070
    Member
    edited January 15
    Unfair as it is...still not impossible.

    Although Tagar is the only most "Unfair" boss in G21 and as a purification boss.

    Talvish is fine as is, its not new that we have bosses being "Unfair" in the past till we as players been power creeped to the point of not knowing these bosses used to be "Unfair" or challenging. Just that in G21 we peaked when most of out skills are maxed and we only have gear to worry about or what talent you use. Also once you know which of Talvish attacks works he is very easy which is why being Knowledgeable comes to play to avoid being one shot by his attack.

    Now as for our doppelganger in G21, its just some kind of eh gimmicky damage check sort of damage sponge?

    But yea, if I complete this with a squishy low level elf so can any race but with better advantage.

    Draech
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    Unfair as it is...still not impossible.

    Although Tagar is the only most "Unfair" boss in G21 and as a purification boss.

    Talvish is fine as is, its not new that we have bosses being "Unfair" in the past till we as players been power creeped to the point of not knowing these bosses used to be "Unfair" or challenging. Just that in G21 we peaked when most of out skills are maxed and we only have gear to worry about or what talent you use. Also once you know which of Talvish attacks works he is very easy which is why being Knowledgeable comes to play to avoid being one shot by his attack.

    Now as for our doppelganger in G21, its just some kind of eh gimmicky damage check sort of damage sponge?

    But yea, if I complete this with a squishy low level elf so can any race but with better advantage.

    Yeah, but it's after G19 where they make a ton of avoidable attacks. For example, Girgishay and Balor in G22 both have teleport grabs where you cannot block or defend against it in any way. The ONLY way out is for an ally to hit the boss enough times to release you. For the most part, bosses in the past where cleverly enough designed that they didn't have completely unfair advantages since many bosses require parties to complete.

    As for Tagar. She needs a nerf. At least limiting her teleport ability. If that one thing were addressed, the fight might be managable. Talvish can be beaten if you're good, but if you hesitate at the wrong moment, you're gonna die. That's a heavy punishment for a single moment's hesitation. For Talvish, either his insta-death should only take half health, or his ability to seal your ONE skill you need should be removed.

    As for the Doppelganger, I didn't know the "right" strategy for this one at the time I wrote this post because I couldn't do more damage than he could regenerate, and my wounds were taking off like .01 percent of his health even though that was the recommended strategy on Wiki was to wound him so his health doesn't regenerate. Thanks to Discord, I got the right strategies and beat him fairly easily using brionac to reduce his defense protection and then murder him with my chain blade. But I do think he needs a slight rebalancing because I feel like the fight is one of the better moments in G21 and was actually more fun than the Talvish final boss. Personally, I would like to fight the Doppelganger the way the game intended rather than cheesing him with brionac/demi to lower his defense so I could just chain impale him to death. Honestly, this fight could remain as is and it's not a big deal, but I feel like this fight could be a lot of fun if his health regeneration weren't so overpowered and we could fight this boss legitimately rather than cheesing. But like I said, the fight can remain as is if needed because it can be cheesed for those that can't do enough damage to overcome it's health regeneration. It actually is possible if you use the right strategy, but it shouldn't require cheesing for those of us without ridiculous reforge power.
    Atheist42
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,125
    Posts: 1,070
    Member
    edited January 16
    Welp get used to it, this is now the new "hard" for the powerful Milletians fighting beings far difficult than our past enemies...when I mean hard I mean clearly unfair, Don't get me wrong I TOO found it unfair but what can you do? Not play would be the answer.

    These suggestions don't get looked at very much and likely HAD been given a thought but KR Nexon HQ Said no to all of it I bet.
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 151
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    Welp get used to it, this is now the new "hard" for the powerful Milletians fighting beings far difficult than our past enemies...when I mean hard I mean clearly unfair, Don't get me wrong I TOO found it unfair but what can you do? Not play would be the answer.

    These suggestions don't get looked at very much and likely HAD been given a thought but KR Nexon HQ Said no to all of it I bet.

    Sadly, you are right about that... And trust me, I'm highly considering not playing this game anymore because I'm tired of Nexon thinking they know how to do difficult right when they clearly don't understand fairness at all. I'm also sorta tired of them pretending they care about their customers when they clearly don't. I know Nexon doesn't care one way or another about one person (I'm starting to think they're actually trying to kill this game), but honestly, I'm about to call it quits with this game again.