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What would it cost...? (To fix these things)

MenuodenMenuoden
Mabinogi Rep: 695
Posts: 18
Member
edited April 2, 2018 in Feedback and Suggestions
There's certain flaws to the game that've existed longer than most players can remember or as long as some veterans can remember, and I suspect they've by and large been swept under the rug but i'd like to seriously inquire, if it's a matter of priority and nexon/devcat are both driven by money, can I get a serious quote on their $$$ demands for fixing this nonsense? This isn't a joke either. Really. Name your ridiculous number, i'll make an effort to focus the internet and meet it, because I love this game, but I'd like to see it still be around 15 years from now when i'd likely still be playing it and i'd rather if it's still there it be a polished gem and not something i'm asking "After decades why is this still happening?!"

Some might see this as insulting, it really isn't, i've been around mabinogi for nearing a decade now, and i'm honestly curious what they (the staff) would want to ensure stuff like this gets done, it's got to be possible one way or the other with enough money thrown at it, right?

- Dungeon movement bugs (I often have to swap between W,A,S,D or the mouse to move within dungeons with mixed results, often with my giant getting stuck regardless, mounting seems to intensify the chances I get 'caught')

- Server Lag (Seriously, skies the limit kids. What would it cost to get nexon to cut down on servers, optimize them, and then ensure I stop having this lag that makes no sense. People used to use mods as well as still denagle/MTU to fix this. Few other games do I hear about people knowing about or trying this, so what would the damage be to fix it in a serious sense.)

((Note: If you're under 30 and you think MTU/denagling is common knowledge, I've played games for 27 years since I was 3, and mabinogi was the first game I even ran into knowledge of the two on, i'd be willing to say it's one of the games that even made it broader knowledge for many people. That said, no game is intended for you to 'need sekrit methods' to make run smoothly))
- Reforge Imbalances: This is a major P2W vs F2P balance issue, please create an ITEM WORLD akin to Disgaea's which addresses 'bonus effects within an item', make a reforge tool able to found in hard/elites, or at least make it possible for one of the crafts to MAKE such an item, even if it's difficult -- but we're a better game than this, we shouldn't have obvious imbalances that provoke glares or scornful remarks from other games' players.

- Expand Premium Service. (If it doesn't yet involve +30% exp, x2 All training speeds, equipment slots upgrades, and a free gift each day then 'consider' revamping it -- Premium should be the 'easy answer' to a player wanting to try the best the game has to offer, if it isn't it runs the risk of being less desirable, I myself never saw a solid reason to keep on it endlessly, but I wish I had a great one. Inventory and Vanity aren't necessarily the ways to go here; the best answers would be LADECA themed powers that make playing more convenient/enjoyable but at the same time 'feel' that way, not essential!)

- New Tiers of Gear. NEXON also made Nexus:TK, one of if not the first MMO in north america -- which is still open to this day. By the way? It has MANY tiers to the gear to keep up with the 'ever growing nature' of the game, this is because Nexon knows that the gear race is a huge motivator for many personalities -- yet here in mabinogi it kind of fell off the map. Please make it possible to use new-materials to raise the very core stats of weapons (and min. level/talent to equip) requirements.

- Permit means of AP to Stats too; You guys knew this was eventually coming, some of us don't like a lot of the trees in there. We'd never ever use those trees. Yet to improve we're essentially 'strong armed/bullied' into spending time or absurd levels of money on potions to master a talent/skills we have 0 interest in. To counter this I propose a AP to Stats alternative with diminishing returns (AKA gets more expensive the more you've built up this way).

- Please stop bombarding us with the landing + Momento + whatever page when we regularly visit you. (I'm not explaining this, if the staff don't regularly visit their own site start doing this, by day 5 you're going to be tired of these pages ganking you when you visit, if we need to let people know whats going on try advertising proper, even offer twitter/facebook reward incentive for recruitment and spreading the word with pons or something.)

- Improve Boss AI's; This also is self-explanatory, but bosses need higher reaction time and intelligence patterns, even readily available for staff in the form of AI's for pets designed by players with the systems in place. Please start using them, the answer isn't always absurd stats/heavystander/blinkers/etc... sometimes the answer is the boss being a bit more clever and quick.

Comments

  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,690
    Posts: 2,592
    Member
    Just in case OP doesn't know, the game is sort of a "black box" with the coding from various teams from over the years. The original team is no longer with the staff and apparently as a result of that, no one knows how they did it, so basically stuff just keeps getting piled on top of it. I'm not sure if this has changed, but last I heard there was supposed to be a team of Bug Busters that were taking care of various issues in the game that have been around.

    Regarding your Item World idea, explain what that means for those who have never played the game when you use it as an example. For anyone who has never played Disgaea, Item World (depending on the rank of the item) is a random dungeon that goes down to a maximum of 100 levels (this was in a Gold ranked item if I remember correctly). Inside Item World are beings known as Specialists who when you defeat them, they give a boost in your stats (from HP to EXP gain) and you can transfer them to other items and combine them with other like Specialists to increase their effect. The more floors you clear in the item, the higher the stat increase in the Item in question. However, the only way you can exit it is with a magic door called a Mr. Gency exit, when you beat every ten floors (10, 20, 30...) or by completing your descent through the item. While Mabinogi has the concept of you going through different zones through the Alban Knights Training Ground, I don't think this would really be a plausible idea. They would have to build an entire new system for it and that's not likely to happen when we already have so many issues...

    Regarding your Premium Service idea. Are you addressing this toward NA Nexon or something? I've seen a thread that's complained about the new VIP in Korea that hasn't been brought stateside, for whatever which reason. What we get is up to Korea. Also, those bonuses there seem really broken and would result in a cost increase for the player, especially with involvement of the extra Equipment Slot as you suggest. I'm for a revamp, but let's keep it a balanced one. For starters, get rid of that defunct Admin coupon.

    You want to buy stats with AP. We already have it. It's called Skill Ranking and AP Training. You can reset all your skills with Duncan now for a gold fee to make it easier.
    [Deleted User]Redetsucourtneyy
  • KouyioueKouyioue
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,130
    Posts: 443
    Member
    edited September 18, 2017
    Well the WASD thing in dungeons sounds like phantom bsp(unintended invisible walls) or something like that. Happens when you got coplanar surfaces, like the ends of these perfectly flat pipes:

    xX2hZAV.jpg

    It's an extremely easy fix that can be done in a few seconds for the affected region, depending on your modeling program.

    Mabinogi uses its own little pathfinding system, which was worse back then than it was now, especially when riding pets around in the overworld. WASD control is an afterthought that's gone through quite a few faaaarrr buggier early revisions :)
    dungeons are ollllllllllllllld
    [Deleted User]
  • AquasolAquasol
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,565
    Posts: 443
    Member
    You can throw all the money in the world at something, but that doesn't mean it'll be fixed just because of dollar signs-- whether that's because it causes more issues, or the root cause and solution simply cannot be determined at this point in time.
    [Deleted User]badnewsbarrettLeinei
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,690
    Posts: 2,592
    Member
    edited September 18, 2017
    And I just realized that the OP contradicts themselves in the suggestion above:
    Menuoden wrote: »
    - Reforge Imbalances: This is a major P2W vs F2P balance issue, please create an ITEM WORLD akin to Disgaea's which addresses 'bonus effects within an item', make a reforge tool able to found in hard/elites, or at least make it possible for one of the crafts to MAKE such an item, even if it's difficult -- but we're a better game than this, we shouldn't have obvious imbalances that provoke glares or scornful remarks from other games' players.

    - Expand Premium Service. (If it doesn't yet involve +30% exp, x2 All training speeds, equipment slots upgrades, and a free gift each day then 'consider' revamping it -- Premium should be the 'easy answer' to a player wanting to try the best the game has to offer, if it isn't it runs the risk of being less desirable, I myself never saw a solid reason to keep on it endlessly, but I wish I had a great one. Inventory and Vanity aren't necessarily the ways to go here; the best answers would be LADECA themed powers that make playing more convenient/enjoyable but at the same time 'feel' that way, not essential!)

    They complain about a major P2W issue in Reforge Imbalances, but then they turn around and want all of this overpowered stuff applied to players who pay for a monthly service?
    [Deleted User]
  • VilanoVilano
    Mabinogi Rep: 755
    Posts: 15
    Member
    From my point of view,
    Nexon tried to Balance the P2W vs F2P issue by releasing Echostones and Sidhe Finnachaid. Although it does balance some things out, they haven't really fixed the core issues on their integrity as a Game.

    Issues like
    - Displacement of characters
    - Skill Issues (i.e Focus Fist glitch *although it's basically a cause from abusing i-frames)
    - Potato Servers not being on sync with clients (i.e you can miss 100% aim range skills)
    - Content of the game (New gachapons and wings don't count)

    are what makes people quit tbh... We can all agree Mabinogi is a nicely designed game, but because the company is sticking to their old ways, people stop playing. Nexon is literally throwing potential profit away just because they don't want to make investments into fixing these.
    courtneyy
  • LeineiLeinei
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,690
    Posts: 2,592
    Member
    We're due to get the new G21 content sometime in the future. Content isn't something that can be coded up overnight. It takes time to do. This is also true with glitches due to our ancient system which as I said is hard to work with because the original team isn't there anymore.
    [Deleted User]
  • MenuodenMenuoden
    Mabinogi Rep: 695
    Posts: 18
    Member
    Hard, not everyone appreciates new content or lingers particularly on it. Personally I hate shadow missions. Why? I hate alchemy and blinkers. Do I need a good reason?

    Regarding "AP Training is a thing!" No. No it isn't AP <-> Stats has yet to really be a thing, since the ratio can be between 'abyssmal to no' returns for the cost of the AP, and at the end of the day you can only raise X so far because there's only so many skills. And I still have to use those skills, some of which can be a total pain in the ass to grind, and again -- i'd never use them, so by virtue of that i'm reluctant to even meet the minimum demand to work on those. It doesn't mean i'm playing any less or doing any less, I just think skills that will never work with anything I use or my play style shouldn't be seen as mandatory to work on.

    Let me put it to you this way, your job in real life ? Imagine if to get a promotion I required you master my job. Then your neighbors job for another nickel. Then another for yet another slight nickel. Are you necessarily making what they're worth? No. Are you even getting the increase you'd really deserve for mastering those fields? No. So why did you do this at the end of the day? +0.15c? (Or say +10 str). And would that of been fair and worth it? 'Not really'. Because the stat barely helps versus if I just went to work for 4 hours and spent that on reforges, so at the end of the day by playing the game instead of reforging my personal play-style can't grow much since my only option as a F2P player really is to "grind up every imaginable skill because then surely that +300 str beyond what I have atm and gaining ?15,000? levels to do so are fair and worth it! (They aren't. Remember kids moderation is key, even in gaming and personal enjoyment.)

    As for expanding the premium service, Idon't see things like that as "Pay 2 win". There's "Pay for expedition" types which seem unfair superficially, but if one analyzes them they prove they're really just making the players' playing smoother or faster. (EXP, Skill training, AP training even, etc... fall into these, it's not like you're freely doubling AP gained or permitting the player beyond normal caps, they're just there faster.) And while the expansion of the tabs would seem unfair and to deter from another shop option; I disagree. The premium service usually serves as a cost efficient package to experience the most the game has to offer, versus getting something more expensive that lasts longer -- and frankly the time limit on the normal Equipment Expansion one is pretty ridiculous considering the only true hybrid gear we get never upgrade, are joke items, are abyssmal all around, or are not even player acquirable (see: Original BDKs which could adv magic).

    As much as people defend the idea "You should max all trees if you want high stats!" I find it strange more people aren't upset none of these decent weapons really permit multiple trees fluidly, I mean jeebus people your characters are practically not even fully functional (For some not even 30% at a time, and that's with them knowing their stuff AND trying at it!)

  • VilanoVilano
    Mabinogi Rep: 755
    Posts: 15
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Vilano
    Vilano wrote: »
    From my point of view,
    Nexon tried to Balance the P2W vs F2P issue by releasing Echostones and Sidhe Finnachaid. Although it does balance some things out, they haven't really fixed the core issues on their integrity as a Game.

    Issues like
    - Displacement of characters
    - Skill Issues (i.e Focus Fist glitch *although it's basically a cause from abusing i-frames)
    - Potato Servers not being on sync with clients (i.e you can miss 100% aim range skills)
    - Content of the game (New gachapons and wings don't count)

    are what makes people quit tbh... We can all agree Mabinogi is a nicely designed game, but because the company is sticking to their old ways, people stop playing. Nexon is literally throwing potential profit away just because they don't want to make investments into fixing these.
    Displacement of characters can be caused by a lot of things, many of which are client side. Invincibility Frames are an issue? Potato Servers? I'm 2100 miles from the server and I don't lag like that. Are you running wireless or using an ethernet cable? I, personally, think Nexon gives in to their community too much,.. seriously too much .. and I say that mostly because no matter what they do and or how many millions they pour into the game, they won't make a hundred percent of their spoiled-consumers happy a hundred percent of the time. :expressionless:

    Never said i-frames are an issue, the lock up from the focus fist is.
    Considering GMs disconnecting during live streams, it's pretty apparent that they are running on low maintenance servers. And the state of Ch1? lol a joke.
    I live in west coast with 30 Mbps ethernet speed, I've played different games like Black Desert Online, and seeing what BDO can do for players at the minimum, mabi is lacking quite a lot xd.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Mabinogi Rep: 550
    edited September 18, 2017
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Throwing excessive money to nexon won't give you a better game. They will just take all the money they can get and use it for something else.… Like heavy advertising for maple story.
    That's horrible business practice lol
    Menuoden wrote: »
    - Reforge Imbalances: This is a major P2W vs F2P balance issue, please create an ITEM WORLD akin to Disgaea's which addresses 'bonus effects within an item', make a reforge tool able to found in hard/elites, or at least make it possible for one of the crafts to MAKE such an item, even if it's difficult -- but we're a better game than this, we shouldn't have obvious imbalances that provoke glares or scornful remarks from other games' players.

    - New Tiers of Gear. NEXON also made Nexus:TK, one of if not the first MMO in north america -- which is still open to this day. By the way? It has MANY tiers to the gear to keep up with the 'ever growing nature' of the game, this is because Nexon knows that the gear race is a huge motivator for many personalities -- yet here in mabinogi it kind of fell off the map. Please make it possible to use new-materials to raise the very core stats of weapons (and min. level/talent to equip) requirements.

    - Please stop bombarding us with the landing + Momento + whatever page when we regularly visit you. (I'm not explaining this, if the staff don't regularly visit their own site start doing this, by day 5 you're going to be tired of these pages ganking you when you visit, if we need to let people know whats going on try advertising proper, even offer twitter/facebook reward incentive for recruitment and spreading the word with pons or something.)

    - Improve Boss AI's; This also is self-explanatory, but bosses need higher reaction time and intelligence patterns, even readily available for staff in the form of AI's for pets designed by players with the systems in place. Please start using them, the answer isn't always absurd stats/heavystander/blinkers/etc... sometimes the answer is the boss being a bit more clever and quick.

    1. I agree reforges are really broken, a single reforge line can increase your damage potential from anywhere to 1.2~2x, and are practically necessary to clear things like phantasm in a reasonable time. (If theres any strategy to clearing phant in a reasonable time and doesnt require NX-only pets/reforge, i'm all ears, lol.)

    2. Arguably, item tiers exist despite the lack of any official labeling of tiers, some items are distinctly better than others. i.e. any pre-G19 two-handed weapons (excluding spirit weapons) vs fanatic great sword. And Divine Blade beats fanatic.
    There's also a lot of vanity/untierable weapons like Black Dragon Knight Sword, which is untierable, because it has high damage, but no upgradability.

    3. Stop deleting your cookies, lol. Site isnt gonna know you visited it already if you clear your cookies all the time, Unless your advocating for nexon to store peoples IP addresses (which they may or may not already do :thinking:, and is still a very unreliable work around, i.e. if your going on vacation and stop at like 5 different hotels and use their wifi, your gonna have 5 different IP addresses)

    4. A lot of mabi bosses, pre G-19 have stupid AI's. But I mean even if the Boss AI's were hyper-intelligent, what could they do against FH? lol. (Maybe they could just reach into code and delete your character)
    A good boss design is all about forcing the player to react to it, never the other way around. If something reacts to u in a game, its often a specific action gimmick, like mobs immediately targeting you if you use an item. Or AI gunmen running for cover when u throw a grenade. The only thing better would need a smart AI that learns how to fight you. That requires true AI which expensive and bad game design, because AIs will always surpass humans. (see Grandmaster of (insert game here) vs AI)
    If you want a boss that can counter all attacks, or chases you when you run, try pvp (lol), and it would probably be frustratingly unfair because of server lag :^) (unless your not a laggy person, in which case congrats).
    Also, the pet AI system is basically the same as the monster AI system. In other words, they're both eh.
    I mean, what do you even want? A boss that can use ice-counter? Only another monster would fall for that.
    Most monsters are supposed to be gimmicky to some degree to force players to have different strategies to defeat them, i.e. blinkers, lvl 3 passive defenses.
    Absurd stats mobs are designed to be power walls. For example, AAHM should be ran by more geared/leveled players. They don't want players getting the best possible weapons when they can only do like 5k crits.

    Post remark: I suppose you could have a mob react by like, always loading counter attack/windmill if players loads FH, run away crazy fast if you use fullswing, throw a rock at you from 30m away if used ranged attacks, and does something else when u use ninja/gunner. (which would be hilarious, @Nexon we need a event monster that literally mocks the player by being unkillable by avoiding/preventing you from attacking)
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
    Member
    Oh hi, it's one of those threads again. :unamused:
    [Deleted User]Leinei