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Twilight wings will return

Comments

  • SylviaWolfeSylviaWolfe
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    Gotta say I kinda preferred wings when all we had was basically SAO winds, angel and demon wings. They were simple and felt special to own. Not to say some of the new ones aren't pretty but they're starting to get immensely repetitive and some are kind of ugly (pegasus wings I'm looking at you). Tbh I think the twilight wings should've just been a perma-grindable event. Like "Oh look you can earn wings!". Give everyone something to do to earn them/the coupons and not everyone is going to stop wanting wings at just those so they'd still make gacha bank as usual.
    GretaLeineiMizukiHayama
  • Radiant DawnRadiant Dawn
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    instead of wings, can we has different kinds of tails? i mean they are a thing and i would like to see more types of tails i suppose. its starting they running out of ideas for wings since they been released so often. if not that then maybe different type of animal ears? i dunno im just a pleb kek
  • SorathSorath
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    No gacha = no Mabinogi. If gacha sales suddenly dropped to zero, I have no doubt they would simply shut down the game and cut their losses rather than taking financial risks trying to come up with new ways to make players spend large amounts of money.

    Gachanogi, or no Nogi? Take your pick.
    PolicromaLeineiVaughan
  • GretaGreta
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    edited December 28, 2017
    All these re-skinned wings keep flooding our market...
    Wings are so irrelevant now, even big new wings are sold for mere 4-8m gold.
    And this is happening all because Nexon tries to cash grab poor gamblers and fashionogis.
    Seems like Korea players are still not bored/fed up with wings?
    R.I.P wings.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    Dunno why wings even bother people any more. They are numerous and common because the gachas spit them out in large numbers. I seriously doubt anyone wears them to "look rich" anymore.

    I like the sprite wings. They're simple, pretty, understated, available in numerous colors, and cheap. I've actually retired the butterfly wings I thought I'd never get rid of. Looks like I may have another pair to collect soon.
  • pawcalypsepawcalypse
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    Gaea wrote: »
    As gacha. That's why they made the ones from the event expire and made the perma coupon have an abysmal drop rate.

    Just say no this time. Don't buy it. Please.

    We keep buying this crap it lets them know it's ok to keep releasing stuff this way. It's not ok. Show them how it's not ok. Ok? Ok.

    Thanks.
    Odinwolfe wrote: »
    Disgusting.
    Gaea wrote: »
    Odinwolfe wrote: »
    Disgusting.

    Yep, pretty much. Revolting.

    Not sure if it sarcastic or if really appalled.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited December 28, 2017
    Sorath wrote: »
    No gacha = no Mabinogi. If gacha sales suddenly dropped to zero, I have no doubt they would simply shut down the game and cut their losses rather than taking financial risks trying to come up with new ways to make players spend large amounts of money.

    Gachanogi, or no Nogi? Take your pick.

    I do not believe anyone argued against gachapons in this thread. I was merely expressing frustration the focus dedicated to wings that border on a reskin. I want more creativity, but wings are too limited than the design afford to outfits.
    Policroma wrote: »
    Dunno why wings even bother people any more. They are numerous and common because the gachas spit them out in large numbers. I seriously doubt anyone wears them to "look rich" anymore.

    I like the sprite wings. They're simple, pretty, understated, available in numerous colors, and cheap. I've actually retired the butterfly wings I thought I'd never get rid of. Looks like I may have another pair to collect soon.

    This is on the assumption that wings are considered indistinguishable and interchangeable (Which mostly seem to apply to fixed color variants of one wing design). From I have seen, you are correct in that many wings are "cheap" due to the ridiculous amount of gachaing, but also keep in mind that Nexon does utilize the "Last season" designs as more common to lure people into buying the Gachapon as well as using newer designs in order bring in the whales who would spend money spamming it.

    The issue of being criticized for poor man wings while rare, does tend to be more prevalent than I originally thought at first, my first experience being Doki Doki Heart Wings, among others.

    Not that I have a problem with this method of in with the old, in with the new, really. Some things I like tend to border prohibitively expensive when they first debuted, and having fashion items be more common is great regardless of what they are.

    Another reason that bothers people is just how numerous they are. I mean, fixed colors for one wing design stretch to 5+ variants? That just seems completely lazy at the cost of the player at this point.

    Even then, while most wings are not quite as expensive, consider the fact that we have gachapons centered around this one item type. it may not be regulated merely by the gold spent, but by the appearance of gold spent, like some cheap knockoff.
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Gaea wrote: »
    We keep buying this crap it lets them know it's ok to keep releasing stuff this way. It's not ok. Show them how it's not ok. Ok? Ok.
    Gaea wrote: »
    They can't anymore because KR is not listening anymore. See we can go ahead and not buy the gacha here but they will keep shoving it in our faces because the KR server eats that crap up.
    As you said yourself, NA's purchase habits won't truly affect how Korea will ship stuff here. A complete and actual boycott of buying gacha here will accomplish nothing but shooting Nexon NA in the foot.
    Nilrem wrote: »
    I never really understood the "I must have wings!" mentality either. I've seen a lot of people just take any pair, regardless if it fits their look, color, or overall appearance, and just keep them on.
    The closet comparison I can make is children looking up to famous role-models in real life and wanting to do/have stuff like them. Kids (and some adults) want things solely because they saw someone else they like owning them, and that probably applies to the wing infatuation.
    Vaughan
  • ArjuneArjune
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    edited December 28, 2017
    they actually had updated VIP since 2 years ago... with new chat stickers in the daily gifts, your CHOICE of shop repair /bank ticket, ability to collect advance play through bank tabs, 10 mil checks, 10 mil per chara bank limit, 20 mil housing limit etc... for like 2 years now. only in 2017 they upgraded it AGAIN to add a few more features..... we've been shafted when it comes to VIP for way longer than you guys think. That's why some people like me are so mad that we haven't gotten updated while they continue making features of it obsolete while NOT lowering the price
  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    edited December 28, 2017

    This is on the assumption that wings are considered indistinguishable and interchangeable (Which mostly seem to apply to fixed color variants of one wing design). From I have seen, you are correct in that many wings are "cheap" due to the ridiculous amount of gachaing, but also keep in mind that Nexon does utilize the "Last season" designs as more common to lure people into buying the Gachapon as well as using newer designs in order bring in the whales who would spend money spamming it.

    "Last season", which is no different than Nexon has always done. The "rare" item of yesterday becomes the common item of today.

    Except that no longer seems to be the business model. Now gacha items are more accessible right from the start, being hemorrhaged out like crazy. Since last summer it has been common for me to pull not one, but two pairs of wings out of a mere $30 gacha spending. And if I don't? I can usually still scrape a few mil out of the "trash" items. I'm not saying everyone will have that result, but it happens often enough. I have been able to find every outfit I really wanted, and even some I only kinda sorta wanted, without spending 40 mil or something.

    Honestly, the gachas themselves are not the problem. It's the perception that only some kind of "whale" is able to access content, and I really think Nexon, for the time being, has gotten over whaling.

    See, the problem with a casino is if nobody is winning the slots, ONLY the whales will play. And if that happens? The Casino loses money. Is it better to have one person spending $3000 or to have 3000 people spending $10? The idea is that the odds need to be balanced so that people see others winning frequently, hope they are next, and try their luck. Nexon doesn't even pay out money for a "win", so they can theoretically push out as many prizes as they want to keep people happy and buying.

    Notice also how a lot of "loot box" games are now trying to set up systems where people don't get duplicates, or get better odds at the featured/wanted item the more they spend. (See: Shy.) This is the popular trend right now.

    And what about the whales? Who cares? There will always be whales regardless of the game. Even games like Everquest 2, which have given up on gachas entirely, have whales that spend like crazy. The real questions you should be asking are "Are the odds good enough that a non-paying player can get it buying off another player?" and "Can this keep the game funded?" The answers to both appear to be "yes", as new items are easily accessible and there always seems to be another batch of new content over the horizon now.

    There may be a time that Nexon does an about face and does another gacha with travesty odds like the Shakespeare gachas of old, where you got mostly trash for your trouble and there was only maybe 1 or 2 new featured outfits per server. Those were truly the days of the whale. But anyone who thinks we're living in those days now is looking for something to gripe at.
    pawcalypseVaughan
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited December 28, 2017
    Policroma wrote: »

    This is on the assumption that wings are considered indistinguishable and interchangeable (Which mostly seem to apply to fixed color variants of one wing design). From I have seen, you are correct in that many wings are "cheap" due to the ridiculous amount of gachaing, but also keep in mind that Nexon does utilize the "Last season" designs as more common to lure people into buying the Gachapon as well as using newer designs in order bring in the whales who would spend money spamming it.

    "Last season", which is no different than Nexon has always done. The "rare" item of yesterday becomes the common item of today.

    Except that no longer seems to be the business model. Now gacha items are more accessible right from the start, being hemorrhaged out like crazy. Since last summer it has been common for me to pull not one, but two pairs of wings out of a mere $30 gacha spending. And if I don't? I can usually still scrape a few mil out of the "trash" items. I'm not saying everyone will have that result, but it happens often enough. I have been able to find every outfit I really wanted, and even some I only kinda sorta wanted, without spending 40 mil or something.

    Honestly, the gachas themselves are not the problem. It's the perception that only some kind of "whale" is able to access content, and I really think Nexon, for the time being, has gotten over whaling.

    See, the problem with a casino is if nobody is winning the slots, ONLY the whales will play. And if that happens? The Casino loses money. Is it better to have one person spending $3000 or to have 3000 people spending $10? The idea is that the odds need to be balanced so that people see others winning frequently, hope they are next, and try their luck. Nexon doesn't even pay out money for a "win", so they can theoretically push out as many prizes as they want to keep people happy and buying.

    Notice also how a lot of "loot box" games are now trying to set up systems where people don't get duplicates, or get better odds at the featured/wanted item the more they spend. (See: Shy.) This is the popular trend right now.

    And what about the whales? Who cares? There will always be whales regardless of the game. Even games like Everquest 2, which have given up on gachas entirely, have whales that spend like crazy. The real questions you should be asking are "Are the odds good enough that a non-paying player can get it buying off another player?" and "Can this keep the game funded?" The answers to both appear to be "yes", as new items are easily accessible and there always seems to be another batch of new content over the horizon now.

    There may be a time that Nexon does an about face and does another gacha with travesty odds like the Shakespeare gachas of old, where you got mostly trash for your trouble and there was only maybe 1 or 2 new featured outfits per server. Those were truly the days of the whale. But anyone who thinks we're living in those days now is looking for something to gripe at.

    I think I should allude to my earlier post that my problem is less of Nexon and more of people in general. The "whole keeping up with Jones" is not the healthiest mentality to have. At one spectrum, you have people living in ignorance. On the other, you have people who did achieve these sort of things only to grow depressed at how shallow it is upon attaining it. I see this sort of thing all the time.

    I also dislike the notion of you singling out my post that also stated I have no problem with the "last season" aspect, and implying that I think this is new. I know it is not.

    Of course, I notice it with wings as well, which seems to border on the idea that since wing gachapons are overloaded with all sorts of wings, that the chances of pulling any of the new ones is a tad bit more decent than recent pulls that focused more on outfits, but they overall focus on the last season aspect. Perhaps I forgot to include that since these gachapons are overwhelmingly wing focused, they could just stuff any number of wings, no matter the reskin or recoloring, and call it a day, which is the basis of my "Lazy Design" gripe, alongside the whole "Why do people still buy these wings when they are beginning to look the same?" deal.

    I like the idea of Shy, but much like the systems before her in this game, I feel we are overestimating her value now, alongside similar works, instead of potential. I don't think this is a real set up due to her limit viability, which we have seen before. I think for one solution is to institute the token system with the stars permanently. This would likely increase gachapon sales over a longer period for the average customer. I simply want a system that stays, instead of a limited one that renders tokens useless after a set time period.

    The idea of "It is worst in my day" isn't a valid one. Comparisons of a worst evil does not make the original evil any less bad. To pull up a severe example, I could feed a child a small sandwich just once day, and when they complains of hunger, respond that many children in some 3rd world country get far less food than they do.

    Do you think that my argument is a valid one, or different than your comparison of today to Shakespeare? To sum it up in one phrase, "the worst of two evils...is still evil". The important thing to stress here is that our standards for acceptable are perhaps different, but it depends on the gripes one has in general.
    Nexon isn't responsible for people being people, of course. I hope I have not offended or insulted you or anything. I...am a bit dense when I do.
  • Pip-BoyPip-Boy
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    I got a couple enchant protection pots from the event so I'm not too salty about this. The wings were very gaudy anyway
  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    edited December 28, 2017

    I also dislike the notion of you singling out my post that also stated I have no problem with the "last season" aspect, and implying that I think this is new. I know it is not.

    Responding to a response aimed specifically at me is not "singling out". And I would appreciate you not throwing accusations.

    I will say there are "joneses" issues in this game, but I don't look at the random lowbie excited about his first pair of wings, no matter how garish they may look. Nor do I look at the person trying to buy the 120m pair of wings, as I have been in the position of really wanting a rare item for no other reason than it matching what I wanted my character to be, not caring what others thought of me while wearing it. Not everyone looking for an expensive item is "keeping up". Some people are the joneses in the first place.

    No. I look at the people who whine and complain that gachas dare to exist, freak out and complain at the GMs in the discord, only to break their own rules and buy said gachas, throw a tantrum, slink away for a few weeks, and repeat the process again. Clearly there IS someone I am singling out, and it is not you.

    I do not see gachas (that is, gambling) as inherently evil. I think there is a right and wrong way to do it, however. The "right" way can maximize both profits and satisfaction of the players. And I believe Nexon's last 6 months have been 100 steps in the right direction. We can argue semantics all day long, but all I know is I like not having to put away unreasonable amounts of gold or IRL money for a cosmetic item.

    Should there be pride in the items one aquires in game? I think this has been solved by "gear", such as weapons and armor, most of which are craftable. And I'm noticing there are certain lines the gachas will not cross in regards to gear. As long as they don't start spitting out bhafel huntresses, I think the balance will stay maintained.
    Pip-BoyJazmynVaughan
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    edited December 28, 2017
    Policroma wrote: »

    I also dislike the notion of you singling out my post that also stated I have no problem with the "last season" aspect, and implying that I think this is new. I know it is not.

    Responding to a response aimed specifically at me is not "singling out". And I would appreciate you not throwing accusations.

    I will say there are "joneses" issues in this game, but I don't look at the random lowbie excited about his first pair of wings, no matter how garish they may look. Nor do I look at the person trying to buy the 120m pair of wings, as I have been in the position of really wanting a rare item for no other reason than it matching what I wanted my character to be, not caring what others thought of me while wearing it. Not everyone looking for an expensive item is "keeping up". Some people are the joneses in the first place.

    No. I look at the people who whine and complain that gachas dare to exist, freak out and complain at the GMs in the discord, only to break their own rules and buy said gachas, throw a tantrum, slink away for a few weeks, and repeat the process again. Clearly there IS someone I am singling out, and it is not you.

    I do not see gachas (that is, gambling) as inherently evil. I think there is a right and wrong way to do it, however. The "right" way can maximize both profits and satisfaction of the players. And I believe Nexon's last 6 months have been 100 steps in the right direction. We can argue semantics all day long, but all I know is I like not having to put away unreasonable amounts of gold or IRL money for a cosmetic item.

    Should there be pride in the items one aquires in game? I think this has been solved by "gear", such as weapons and armor, most of which are craftable. And I'm noticing there are certain lines the gachas will not cross in regards to gear. As long as they don't start spitting out bhafel huntresses, I think the balance will stay maintained.

    I apologize for that, but I saw that part of the post as redundant due to me acknowledging I had no real problem with this method, to which I praised said method. (Though I am disappointed it has greatly alleviated the prices of Ponytail Coupons the second time those were available.)

    I also have to apologize for appearing to be irate (Well, I am Irate). I just had some issues going on with family, so my aggression has obviously shown through. I have no beef with you Polichrome. You are a rather decent and reasonable person in a sea of Gaea's and such. :(

    As for the Jones issue, I also acknowledge that my generalization was what it was: a generalization. However, I do not apply it to individuals on such a basis, I am merely acknowledging what i believe is the truth. I don't think being the Jones keeps one from being one. The pursuit is still the same, and often occurs for the exact reason, which is why I think it is due the criticism. Of course, I realize now that it is a bit ridiculous to talk about the topic when much of the population in more developed areas tend to gravitates towards this in many aspects of their lives. To which, I apologize to the OP for going off on a tangent.

    I also dislike people who complain merely out of dissatisfaction of their gachapon gain, rather than anything more substantial. It is RNG dude, get over it (Not talking to you). We can't win every time. Of course, in line with the "evil" argument, I do agree that there is a right and wrong way of monetization. However, I am not so sure Shy's star shop is a step in the right direction, as it may have been before, but something merely amounts to repetition without progress, since I believe Shy's Star shop can be a bit more. I cannot honestly herald it as such due to it not being the first of its kind in Mabinogi itself, though I do relent that the prices this time are actually quite reasonable.

    I am not quite sure with the gear aspect. There has been points where gachapons have spat out many an expensive weaponry that render much of the crafting for such relatively meaningless, including an array of X-Grade Celtic weaponry, but I haven't been keeping up with those items in a long time.

    To reiterate: I apologize for being a jerk. Just as I hold others to a fairly high standards, I should hold myself to them. :s
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    Also, to reiterate, it wasn't merely semantics, but the laurels with which your Shakespeare example rested on. The existence of something worst doesn't preclude the original dilemma from being unacceptable, or in need of improvement. To use a less serious example, I could point that EA's Battlefront 2 was ostensibly much more greedy than anything Mabinogi NA threw at us except...why would I care? This isn't Battlefront 2, nor is this game own by EA. It is a separate scenario altogether.

    The question boils down to "Is it really unacceptable", to which you and I seem to disagree on the issue, with my previous line being that our standards are really quite different. Though now that I think about it, Mabinogi may have improved its gachapon RNG. Steampunk Items were not all that expensive in the long run, nor were MMO Junkie's or Cosmic Princess Gachapons that bad either. The worst I can remember is perhaps the Christmas Jackets for around 10-15 Million Gold, which for the top prize, isn't bad at all if you ask me.

    Of course, my standards are pretty arbitrary, to be glib about it. So currently reassessing standards of what defines "unacceptable". You may have a point. Maybe "not being acceptable" isn't akin to being unacceptable, especially in cases of observed competence and improvement.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    edited December 28, 2017
    Sorath wrote: »
    No gacha = no Mabinogi. If gacha sales suddenly dropped to zero, I have no doubt they would simply shut down the game and cut their losses rather than taking financial risks trying to come up with new ways to make players spend large amounts of money.

    Gachanogi, or no Nogi? Take your pick.

    No Mabinogi then because I'm just fed the hell up. They could update our VIP services but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta have all these freaking micro transactions - which would be all well and good if PON actually bloody meant something!

    So fine, let Mabinogi die. It's been 10 years. To hell with it. -shrugs-
  • BuffalosBuffalos
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    Gaea wrote: »
    No Mabinogi then because I'm just fed the hell up. They could update our VIP services but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta have all these freaking micro transactions - which would be all well and good if PON actually bloody meant something!

    So fine, let Mabinogi die. It's been 10 years. To hell with it. -shrugs-

    Let's be perfectly honest here, if/when they update our VIP services absolutely nothing else is going to change with our opinions on all other cash shop items. It really freaking sucks that we've been continuously shafted in the service department, but NA suddenly catching up with every other region in that area won't change the stuff Korea and Japan throw at us without consent.
    pawcalypse
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    Gaea wrote: »
    Sorath wrote: »
    No gacha = no Mabinogi. If gacha sales suddenly dropped to zero, I have no doubt they would simply shut down the game and cut their losses rather than taking financial risks trying to come up with new ways to make players spend large amounts of money.

    Gachanogi, or no Nogi? Take your pick.

    No Mabinogi then because I'm just fed the hell up. They could update our VIP services but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta have all these freaking micro transactions - which would be all well and good if PON actually bloody meant something!

    So fine, let Mabinogi die. It's been 10 years. To hell with it. -shrugs-

    I'm serious with saying this. WHY do you stay here then? Lately all you've been posting is hate on nexon/mabi if you really have that much of an issue why do you still hang around?

    The gacha stuff has been getting better ( at least a lot of players think so anyway) the new director has been making improvements as well. I'm hopeful for the future because of this. If your main issue with gacha is the whole outfit bag thing you're barking up the wrong tree because people voted with their wallets and they prefer it in gacha
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    Sorath wrote: »
    No gacha = no Mabinogi. If gacha sales suddenly dropped to zero, I have no doubt they would simply shut down the game and cut their losses rather than taking financial risks trying to come up with new ways to make players spend large amounts of money.

    Gachanogi, or no Nogi? Take your pick.

    No Mabinogi then because I'm just fed the hell up. They could update our VIP services but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta have all these freaking micro transactions - which would be all well and good if PON actually bloody meant something!

    So fine, let Mabinogi die. It's been 10 years. To hell with it. -shrugs-

    I'm serious with saying this. WHY do you stay here then? Lately all you've been posting is hate on nexon/mabi if you really have that much of an issue why do you still hang around?

    The gacha stuff has been getting better ( at least a lot of players think so anyway) the new director has been making improvements as well. I'm hopeful for the future because of this. If your main issue with gacha is the whole outfit bag thing you're barking up the wrong tree because people voted with their wallets and they prefer it in gacha

    The hate is increasing because of the incessant screwing of customers with gacha. I know it's not anything new but it gets worse every freaking month, it gets worse every freaking year. I reluctantly stay because of all the memories. I love this game, make no mistake about that. But I know a lot of people are in the same disposition as me, even you.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
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    Gaea wrote: »
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    Sorath wrote: »
    No gacha = no Mabinogi. If gacha sales suddenly dropped to zero, I have no doubt they would simply shut down the game and cut their losses rather than taking financial risks trying to come up with new ways to make players spend large amounts of money.

    Gachanogi, or no Nogi? Take your pick.

    No Mabinogi then because I'm just fed the hell up. They could update our VIP services but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, gotta have all these freaking micro transactions - which would be all well and good if PON actually bloody meant something!

    So fine, let Mabinogi die. It's been 10 years. To hell with it. -shrugs-

    I'm serious with saying this. WHY do you stay here then? Lately all you've been posting is hate on nexon/mabi if you really have that much of an issue why do you still hang around?

    The gacha stuff has been getting better ( at least a lot of players think so anyway) the new director has been making improvements as well. I'm hopeful for the future because of this. If your main issue with gacha is the whole outfit bag thing you're barking up the wrong tree because people voted with their wallets and they prefer it in gacha

    The hate is increasing because of the incessant screwing of customers with gacha. I know it's not anything new but it gets worse every freaking month, it gets worse every freaking year. I reluctantly stay because of all the memories. I love this game, make no mistake about that. But I know a lot of people are in the same disposition as me, even you.

    What? I came back to the game because it was getting better, and I'm actively enjoying it as well. I don't think we're "getting screwed" with gacha at all, sure the wallet warriors who NEED the latest fashion outfit every time it's released would feel that way but I don't. The only items I dislike in the last ~5 gacha are some of the second titles and that's it. It's been getting a lot better, at least from my perspective.
    Kitsuyashapawcalypse