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Broken Human Buff

Comments

  • AlshianAlshian
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    Oh and I am sure many forgot to mention that Final hit benefits from Redoubled Offensive if lvl 10 deals 200% dmg per activation...THAT is a bootie load of damage.
    With zero use of durability during the use of final hit.
    With the best go around weapon aka Divine Blade for humans
    if you get yourselves some good reforges reduce cooldown to 50 seconds.
    Also splash damage woooo

    You Humans are just either to weak to think your in need of a buff or not really at end game at all.
    I guess you Humans don't want to be limited to final hit, but i am sure giants don't like to be limited to only warrior.
    Or elves not being able to duel wield or use 2 handed weapons other than from some special weapons that allow elves to use.

    BUT WAIT! your not limited to just final hit, go ahead and use other talents, it may not be burst dmg like final hit but least your able to use all talents.

    Veylaine had already proven to ya Bakas that final strike can't even beat Bash in dps, sure final strike hits HARD but not good DPS at all. Humans still have that dps they can remain proud of.

    I remember the days when everyone screams elves are weak and in need of buffs because hold my damn BEER because they have the best single target dmg with mag spam alone...of course with addition to features to make it powerful.

    If you humans don't like feeling weak maybe reach endgame and feel better about yourselves.
  • NoxknightNoxknight
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    There is a reason why humans have not gotten any buffs for a long time. We are already op. I honestly think those giants need those new skills. Don’t forget humans have piercing with fh and relentless assault benefits humans the most imo. Every elite tech Dunn I run humans carry.
  • RaishiiRaishii
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    Never thought we'd be in a timeline where humans complain about being weak.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Raishii wrote: »
    Never thought we'd be in a timeline where humans complain about being weak.

    Humans... weak.
  • MaiaMaia
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    edited March 7, 2019
    Veylaine wrote: »
    Final strike is way too overhyped I don't understand why people say this is a better version of FH.


    There's a couple problems with this comparison (bash vs final strike). 1. Using borealis hammers which give bash bonus but not using the final strike set 2. Final strike speed is increased towards the end, all the dps in the video is done during the first half of the duration (in theory duration reforges would mean even faster dps toward the end, or at least skewed higher).

    I'm not saying it's going to be better than bash in every situation, but in rooms with multiple enemies it's probably going to be faster (with the right gear) because you'll teleport to the next target immediately. Assuming they're not trash mobs that can be chain sweeped of course.

    Humans get a FH buff but lose the durability safety net to my knowledge. FH is the OP burst damage of humans with them being able to fall back on whatever skillset they choose for the situation in downtime. Elves and giants have very niche combat styles (that they excel at)
    Veylaine
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    edited March 7, 2019
    Maia wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    Final strike is way too overhyped I don't understand why people say this is a better version of FH.


    There's a couple problems with this comparison (bash vs final strike). 1. Using borealis hammers which give bash bonus but not using the final strike set 2. Final strike speed is increased towards the end, all the dps in the video is done during the first half of the duration (in theory duration reforges would mean even faster dps toward the end, or at least skewed higher).

    I'm not saying it's going to be better than bash in every situation, but in rooms with multiple enemies it's probably going to be faster (with the right gear) because you'll teleport to the next target immediately. Assuming they're not trash mobs that can be chain sweeped of course.

    Humans get a FH buff but lose the durability safety net to my knowledge. FH is the OP burst damage of humans with them being able to fall back on whatever skillset they choose for the situation in downtime. Elves and giants have very niche combat styles (that they excel at)
    krFKmhS.jpg

    true in some cases Final strike could be better than bash, but most could argue its no where near as good as FH. also im not sure if thats true of FH loses its durability immunity after this update, but none the less FH can be boosted by many attack speed buffs while Final Strike only has one way. The reason I choose the bash vs Final Strike comparison is because thats where Final strike has a better chance.

    Final Hit is superior in almost everyway, so FS just pales in comparison its just better to compare it to bash.

    Also the hammers are the best thing to use until someone makes despair greatsword comparison. The Frosted Borealis Blade only has charge and smash enchantment. While the hammers at least have crit boost effect.
  • MaiaMaia
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    edited March 7, 2019
    Veylaine wrote: »
    true in some cases Final strike could be better than bash, but most could argue its no where near as good as FH. also im not sure if thats true of FH loses its durability immunity after this update, but none the less FH can be boosted by many attack speed buffs while Final Strike only has one way. The reason I choose the bash vs Final Strike comparison is because thats where Final strike has a better chance.

    Final Hit is superior in almost everyway, so FS just pales in comparison its just better to compare it to bash.

    Also the hammers are the best thing to use until someone makes despair greatsword comparison. The Frosted Borealis Blade only has charge and smash enchantment. While the hammers at least have crit boost effect.

    I have no doubt FH>FS in every plausible situation. If FS really only buffs after 10 hits and that's it, then that's pretty disappointing lol I thought I had read about FH losing the durability immunity but I'm too lazy to pull it up, as it may have been untrue like a lot of the other mistranslations that were circulating.

    The only circumstances I could imagine FS being better than Bash would be against multiple targets while using the despair set for the damage buff. I guess an added bonus would be that 2h swords can get piercing and better ergs than borealis hammers.

    I'd like to see FS buffed slightly in that I'd like to see speed modifiers effect it and for the 10 strike speed bonus to go over the cap. Even then it wouldn't be as good as FH but it would likely be better than bash at least. To be totally honest though, FS should've been completely different than FH rather than a less-than copycat. Perhaps a telporting AOE or something; something which had a totally different application.
    Veylaine
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    edited March 7, 2019
    Maia wrote: »
    Veylaine wrote: »
    true in some cases Final strike could be better than bash, but most could argue its no where near as good as FH. also im not sure if thats true of FH loses its durability immunity after this update, but none the less FH can be boosted by many attack speed buffs while Final Strike only has one way. The reason I choose the bash vs Final Strike comparison is because thats where Final strike has a better chance.

    Final Hit is superior in almost everyway, so FS just pales in comparison its just better to compare it to bash.

    Also the hammers are the best thing to use until someone makes despair greatsword comparison. The Frosted Borealis Blade only has charge and smash enchantment. While the hammers at least have crit boost effect.
    I have no doubt FH>FS in every plausible situation. If FS really only buffs after 10 hits and that's it, then that's pretty disappointing lol I thought I had read about FH losing the durability immunity but I'm too lazy to pull it up, as it may have been untrue like a lot of the other mistranslations that were circulating.

    The only circumstances I could imagine FS being better than Bash would be against multiple targets while using the despair set for the damage buff. I guess an added bonus would be that 2h swords can get piercing and better ergs than borealis hammers.

    I'd like to see FS buffed slightly in that I'd like to see speed modifiers effect it and for the 10 strike speed bonus to go over the cap. Even then it wouldn't be as good as FH but it would likely be better than bash at least. To be totally honest though, FS should've been completely different than FH rather than a less-than copycat. Perhaps a telporting AOE or something; something which had a totally different application.

    Yeah I wished that they made FS more different than FH, certainly would make it more unique and maybe more useful, while not causing uproars.
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Maia wrote: »
    There's a couple problems with this comparison (bash vs final strike). 1. Using borealis hammers which give bash bonus but not using the final strike set 2. Final strike speed is increased towards the end, all the dps in the video is done during the first half of the duration (in theory duration reforges would mean even faster dps toward the end, or at least skewed higher).
    The Massive despair sword is pretty hard to craft since the materials are rare drops from lord missions so it's hard to fault them for not using it, however Final Strike does receive a 20% boost to it's multiplier when using any two handed close combat weapon so using it with dual hammers only gives 700% per hit where as a 2h sword hammer or axe would yeild 840% per hit.

    As for the speed of Final Strike, assuming you aren't taking any hits, the first 4 hits have a 2 seconds delay, hits 5-10 have a 1.5 second delay, and all hits past that including added with duration reforge have a 1 second delay. At rank 1 Final Strike has a duration of 50 seconds, the duration reforge adds 1 second per level for a maximum possible 70 seconds, and for reference sake rank 1 has a 240 second cooldown which is lowered to 120s by the cooldown reforge at level 20 which brings the downtime in line with 20/20 reforged Wind Guard and Final Hit.

    When it comes to pure DPS output; Final Strike over it's total duration regardless of reforges or set effect boosting bash will do more, but it's worth considering bash has no downtime; based on Rydian's testing of a double bash taking 1.87 seconds having a 491% DPS (at fifth hit+) we can very easily multiply this out to see bash's damage in the same time as Final Strike, which we can easily calculate due to it's fixed attack delay times. Similarly we can calculate Final Hit and even Way of the Gun's DPS potential thanks to more of Rydian's testing revieling a minimum attack delay of 400ms (0.4s) or 300ms (0.3) with relentless assault activated.

    We'll make some assumptions that you have a high frame rate and perfect inputs and experience no latency spikes, and are either hitting a monster that doesnt move and retaliate OR are using the Iron Will technique for the following numbers.

    Over a period of 50 seconds: Bash will deal 24,550% damage, or 27,100% when using Frosted Borealis Hammers/Celtic Royal Knight Swords for Giant and Human respectively; Final Strike will deal 36,960% damage using a 2 handed weapon or 30,800% with a one handed weapon or dual blunts in a total of 44 hits (Relentless Assault does not speed ether of these skills up)
    Over a Period of 70 seconds: Bash will deal 34,370% and 37,940% with set bonus, Final Strike will deal 44,800% with 1h/dual and 53,760% over a total of 64 hits.
    Over a period of 40 seconds: Final Hit with a Normal attack speed Two Handed Sword (600ms base attack delay, reduced 20% with final hit active to 480ms) will deal 33,200% damage over 83 total hits; If the human wears an attack speed set, second tier festia wing, or has 20% vivace buff active this will be boosted to 40,000% over 100 hits; Using Relentless Assault (Level 10) without an attack speed set will make Final hit deal 44,400% damage over 111 hits; Adding attack speed set ontop of Relentless Assault brings Final Hit up to 53,200% damage. I didnt bother with bash numbers for 40 seconds since I'm mainly comparing Final Hit and Final Strike and the post is already very long.
    Over a period of 70 Seconds: Final Hit with the same setups as above will deal 58,000% in 145 hits/70,000% in 175 hits/77,600% in194 hits/and finally at it's peak with level 10 Relentless Assault and attack speed set 93,200% over 233 hits.

    For the sake of having a reference to a single target dps that all races can use and have the same endgame stat distribution bonuses for;

    Over a period of 28 Seconds: Way of the Gun using Step 6 R type Dowra SE with Yvona renown level 50 will deal 45,080% damage over 70 shots for a total of 140 visual hits, attack speed is unneeded for dowra as it hits the 400ms cap with r1 Way of the Gun alone; 59,892% over 93 shots with any level Relentless Assault activated. But has a staggering comparitive downtime of 152 seconds between uses, short of using Time Shift to ignore it's cooldown 2 extra times every 25 real minutes; but assume you use that method between your three Way of the Gun uses it will deal 135,240% in 210 hits/179,676% in 279 hits. Taunes will do the same DPS with a higher max damage if you use attack speed set+abyss dragon horn/lowest tier festia wing or just grandmaster festia wing, the DPS also goes up with critical multiplier so if you spring for Step 7 R type, an Alban totem and the crit damage homestead prop it'll go up considerably, there is also the Way of the Gun duration reforge on hats or blue echo stones that can add +10 seconds at 20 levels but I'll leave calculating that to anyone who's interested since this post is too long.
    Maia wrote: »
    Humans get a FH buff but lose the durability safety net to my knowledge.
    Close combat type weapons still do not use durability with final hit after the patch, however Final Strike does consume durability, as does Giant Full Swing during Wind Guard if you're not in Beast transformation.
    Veylaine
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    I save so much gold with final hit. I literally will wait for final hit to cool down before I proceed. hue.
    LutetiumVeylaine
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Since humans have final hit, should other races get something like first blood?
  • MaiaMaia
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    Lutetium wrote: »
    .

    Oh cool so FH doesn't lose the durability thing, it was probably just some garbage translation of something. I didn't follow up much on the FH buff since I don't play my human much lately anyway.

    After reading your long but detailed post, I guess it's safe to say final strike won't be useless at least. While it won't be final hit par, it'll be better than bash with the right setup. Granted I guess the calculations you posted probably didn't account for a bash set getting higher crit damage. I think final strike will probably also be more fun to use than spamming bash. It'll be easier to track targets and all you have to do is keep clicking mindlessly for the most part.
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Maia wrote: »
    Granted I guess the calculations you posted probably didn't account for a bash set getting higher crit damage. I think final strike will probably also be more fun to use than spamming bash.
    All of the numbers provided are just the total damage from the skill multipliers over those periods of time, except for way of the gun where all hits are criticals I made a relatively late game assumption for it, since everyone will be using different weapons with different upgrades enchants and have different stats behind them just providing those baseline numbers seemed the most useful information to post.

    The bonus 7% critical damage from Borealis/Celtic Royal set effect ontop of bash stacking both weapon's R type bonuses together definitely help it DPS wise; It's also worth considering that even though the crit damage multiplier is lower with a 2 handed sword and you lose the 1.105* bash multiplier set effect it's possible to get 4 piercing levels on most of the late game 2h swords (with meteroid enchant or solitude for divine blade, 5 levels for bhafel slayer) which will end up allowing you to hit harder on monsters with high protection, especially those like the Geata that can't be sheered.

    As for Final Strike, in solo use cases it's true that it is quite a bit weaker than Final Hit and will have significantly fewer chances to proc critical hits or redoubled offensive over its duration due to the hit speed, but in party play due to the slowness of the hits it's possible for a human or elf player to support shot for every hit of Final Strike, giving an additonal 70-131% damage depending on their gear and title. If that's actually more effective than the other player just using their own dps skills though? really dependant on the situation, but it's a potential niche use worth considering at the very least.

    When it comes to comparing Final Strike to other skills I feel it's really most akin to Smash, but with Final Hit's teleport and outputs the damage faster than Smash. Without reforges Dan 3 Smash on giants is 720%, r1 Final Strike is 700%; both get a 1.2* boost to their multipliers for using 2 handed weapons; both use your equiped weapons splash range and angle but ignore it's splash damage ratio and have a fixed 20% of their hit's damage as splash.

    But here I go writing another novel about game mechanics and future patches so I'll cut it off here by saying Final Strike might not the "better Final Hit that completely depricates anyone playing human and makes them worthless brionac slaves" but for giants it's a very good addition to the game even if it isnt even 1:1 with Final Hit's damage while soloing content and I don't mean to come off as discounting it as useless in this thread because of that but rather put the centralization and massive raw power of Final Hit along with the solo play options Humans have that no other race does such as support shot+lance charge being the highest single hit damage in the game currently.

    Theres good reason why the large majorty of players main Human characters and it's definitely not because they're weak :)
    Veylaine
  • MaiaMaia
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    edited March 8, 2019
    I didn't think final strike got splash damage from what I'd seen in videos. That would be pretty crazy if it did lol That would be an additional perk against bash.
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    edited March 8, 2019
    Lutetium wrote: »

    The bonus 7% critical damage from Borealis/Celtic Royal set effect ontop of bash stacking both weapon's R type bonuses together definitely help it DPS wise; It's also worth considering that even though the crit damage multiplier is lower with a 2 handed sword and you lose the 1.105* bash multiplier set effect it's possible to get 4 piercing levels on most of the late game 2h swords (with meteroid enchant or solitude for divine blade, 5 levels for bhafel slayer) which will end up allowing you to hit harder on monsters with high protection, especially those like the Geata that can't be sheered.


    I wonder if the wiki has these numbers wrong then or im not understanding the %7 critical bonus damage in your explanation
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats#Status_Effects
    J5V7yvL.jpg
    EDIT: is that 7% more or so in terms of DPS than per hit?
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    The numbers on the wiki are grosely incorrect and I'm not sure if the person who put them there has ever even equiped the items that provde the effects or they would have been able to do the simple calculations to find out just how far off they are.

    Enhanced Bash provides a 10.5% boost to bash's multiplier; 460*1.105 for 508.3% at 5 stacks per hit and thus 1016.6% for a double bash.
    Increases critical damage provides a 7% addative bonus to your critical multiplier in the same way Yvona renown, alban knights totem, and R type special upgrades do, eg dual step 6 CRK/Borealis and rank 1 critical hit provide a 150+42+42+7, +241% damage critical hit, or 3.41*
    Decrease durability loss provides a 30% reduction in durability use for all items while the set effect is active, so holding two CRKs or Borealis hammers, holding a Divine Blade or any other combo that gives the effect will apply the -30% dura use to everything you're wearing not just the weapons.

    Bash and Crit enhancements can be verified on Provocation basic mode barrier spikes as they have 0 protection and 0 defense allowing you to very easily calculate the exact multipliers based on your highest hits and the information provided in the skill windows. The wiki is a community project and subject to error, I don't have an account myself so I can't provide a correction to this but someone who does can feel free to verify my numbers and correct the page. Keeping in mind the game truncates displaying decimal damage so there may be very slight variance due to that.
    Veylaine
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Keep in mind, wiki is not official and many numbers are an estimate or they may have been accurate in the past but have not changed to reflect updates.
  • VeylaineVeylaine
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    Lutetium wrote: »
    The numbers on the wiki are grosely incorrect and I'm not sure if the person who put them there has ever even equiped the items that provde the effects or they would have been able to do the simple calculations to find out just how far off they are.

    Enhanced Bash provides a 10.5% boost to bash's multiplier; 460*1.105 for 508.3% at 5 stacks per hit and thus 1016.6% for a double bash.
    Increases critical damage provides a 7% addative bonus to your critical multiplier in the same way Yvona renown, alban knights totem, and R type special upgrades do, eg dual step 6 CRK/Borealis and rank 1 critical hit provide a 150+42+42+7, +241% damage critical hit, or 3.41*
    Decrease durability loss provides a 30% reduction in durability use for all items while the set effect is active, so holding two CRKs or Borealis hammers, holding a Divine Blade or any other combo that gives the effect will apply the -30% dura use to everything you're wearing not just the weapons.

    Bash and Crit enhancements can be verified on Provocation basic mode barrier spikes as they have 0 protection and 0 defense allowing you to very easily calculate the exact multipliers based on your highest hits and the information provided in the skill windows. The wiki is a community project and subject to error, I don't have an account myself so I can't provide a correction to this but someone who does can feel free to verify my numbers and correct the page. Keeping in mind the game truncates displaying decimal damage so there may be very slight variance due to that.

    either way would be nice if the mechanics stats and effects were detailed by the company, instead of players having to do their own math on what certain percentages boost by.
    http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/Announcements/1/00IQZ#3

    well I guess that settles that for now.
  • BobbioBobbio
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    well i'll just stick to my chain impaling as an elf :) seems to work for everything, death mark chain burst and chains impale ahoy. throw in a bone chip and bfo and you're dishin out damage even with no reforges. ideally you'd want chain impale gloves, and dorcha helmet, and if you're extremely lucky, death mark + chain impale gloves with chain burst helmet plus dorcha skill damage modifier. but honestly that's askin to much of the rng gods.
  • AlshianAlshian
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    Bobbio wrote: »
    well i'll just stick to my chain impaling as an elf :) seems to work for everything, death mark chain burst and chains impale ahoy. throw in a bone chip and bfo and you're dishin out damage even with no reforges. ideally you'd want chain impale gloves, and dorcha helmet, and if you're extremely lucky, death mark + chain impale gloves with chain burst helmet plus dorcha skill damage modifier. but honestly that's askin to much of the rng gods.

    Being able to deal 40k+ damage is big enough for me, Id focus more on reforges and Erg upgrade for dorcha gain, and chain sweep range on boots.