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Yes, only milletians can do that so, unless, the defenders of the warp-in spot are also milletians they will eventually all fall down.
I couldn't quite remember if he used hot-air balloons or not. I thought he might've but I dismissed the memory, assuming I was remembering something from Warcraft instead. At any rate, balloons would be a tougher means than teleporting in, since you can see them coming and soldiers need to repel from them, all the while dodging arrows and whatnot. Still, I suppose if they came at night and turned off their burners some distance away they would begin to descend and hopefully not be noticed. That the matter was settled with the amount of soldiers that one could bring in with a flotilla of hot air balloons, and how quickly they could deploy, would indicate that perhaps it wouldn't have required too large an amount of men for the task. So, even a small squad of hired milletians, teleporting in and constantly reviving en mass, would do the job.
As for motivating milletians that's not really gonna be an issue. Look at what some milletians put up with now for modest rewards. Offer enough rewards and milletians will do anything.
I'm imagining Helsa getting an extreme amount of satisfaction from reading that previous sentence. Discrimination against pirates, I'd say.
It's hard to tell with internet, are you getting frustrated? I apologise if that is so. In my mind, I have been treating this thread as a casual dialectic rather than a debate. I regret if it has seemed otherwise.
Ach no, that was literally the opposite intention of my previous post. The thread was starting to go in circles, and there didnt really seem anywhere else for this conversation to go, and I was starting to get the impression from a particularly snappy response you gave earlier that you were slightly irritated, so I deliberately posted a silly, light hearted comment. I mean, come on, I implied you had an obsession with millitians vs pirates, and I even said "discrimination against pirates". I thought that would be enough to show that I was only goofing around here, and prevent a silly argument from breaking out. But yeah, the internet is a messy place when it comes to interpretation.
Wow! Really? If you could point it out so I could review it, I'd be grateful, as I specifically try to avoid that kind of thing.
Like you said, it can be hard to tell on the internet, and there wasn't any particular post that standing alone would give the impression that you were frustated with me, however I can identify exactly when I started to believe I was getting on your nerves.
Literally nothing wrong with the above sentence, but when taken into context alongside everything else on this thread I started to suspect things were turning sour.
The abridged version of this thread up to that point basically goes likes this:
Helsa: Holy Crap! I just found a plot hole!
Negumiko: Nope! (DDSN: I concur!)
Helsa: Yeah, but-
Fragarach: Well actually... (DDSN+Negumiko: Noice!) ...oh and here's another question derailing this thread.
Negumiko: An unrelated question you say? Well, here's my headcannon!
Helsa (trying to bring things back on topic): So why isnt there a Port Quila moon gate?
Fragarach: There is. It's called Port Quila moon gate.
Fragarach: *cracks his stupid Hymerark joke, because he's re-read what he posted earlier and feels that it could be interpreted as dismissive, and doesnt want to come across as some sort of stuck up know-it-all* (DDSN: Lol!)
Helsa: Commerce question and continent warp!
Fragarach: *response to commerce* and "well continent warp has never REALLY been talked about..." and "npcs dont realise they're in a game"
Helsa: *ignoring the rest of what had been said, and the aforementioned fact that you cant travel there till you've been there* BUT IT WAS! The elves and the giants said continent warp! Ferghus said gamey things!
Fragarach: "npcs dont realise they're in a game", as for continent warp...heh...you fell into my trap.... (DDSN: YUP!)
DDSN: Guild Wars 2!!!
Helsa: So why not use continent warp?
Nomigid15(coming out of nowhere, and ignoring everything discussed beforehand): MOON GATES! (DDSN: I agree with this)
Fragarach: NO MOON GATES! Also, Continent warp=1 person, and because I know thats not technically true here's the rest of the reason why, so I can reference Helsa back to this if she falls into trap number 2.
Helsa: *Falls into trap no. 2*
Fragarach: Damn, I'm just so smart, and not kind of a d**k at all! + [Insert joke and anecdote about the thin line between lore and gameplay here].
and then there came your comment of "Okay, so they can then." Which basically came across at that stage as a dismissive "Okay, whatever" and gave me the impression that you were running out of patience with me. This coupled with the fact that this whole thread has basically been everyone just "nope-ing" and contradicting everything you said gave me the impression that you might be feeling like you were being antagonised. Also I'd already explained my counter argument, so the only real response I could give was "read the above" which would only worsen things. I was actually dreading responding, because I could see this thread turning bitter, so instead I simply rephrased my original point as if it was a new one, but responded to your statement about game-y-ness and Owen recruiting people first, so as not to make it as obvious.
You didn't respond with toxicity though, and I was relieved, infact you joked about the "nonsense milletians put up with for modest rewards". Not seeing this thread going anywhere else, and deciding its probably better off ending it here while everythings still all friendly, I made one last joke about how determined you were to have these milletians kicking the crap out of a bunch of poor pirates.
And thats where we are now.
No, not at all. As I said earlier, I was treating this as a dialectic, not some kind of contest.
Alas, this happens. It's a shame to think of all the time and emotion that may have been collectively wasted on internet because of this.
I couldn't remember but I thought you could continent warp someone with you if they were on your pet so I asked about it. Perhaps I misread your reply but I thought you had said you couldn't. When I asked for clarification you confirmed you could but gave some caveats as to why you didn't think it mattered dealing with recruitment. I acknowledged the answer to my query. It was a short sentence, so perhaps you interpreted it as dismissive? I didn't see it that way but if you did then I regret any bother stemming from it.
Here is my summary of the thread:
Me: Why did Admiral Owen use ships to take Belfast Isle when they could have just stormed an army through the moon gates.
Negumiko: Gates have to be claimed first.
Me: That's true but you could start with as little as one person carrying others through on pets, and exponentially build up the number of folks with access.
You: The moon gates on Belfast Isle are not ancient structures. They were built by, or at least, after Admiral Owen pacified Belfast. You mention something about alban knights.
Negumiko: answers the something about alban knights.
Me: Takes you at your word and asks since Uladhites can build them then why didn't they build one in Iria.
You: They did.
Me: Examining the tutorial area, there is a structure that looks like a moon gate but is labled as a mana gate, and doesn't function as either. Due to lack of definite information, one way or another, I didn't see any reason to enquire further on moon gates except to ask a tangential question about commercing and gates. Then realized that continent warp goes directly to belfast and that it has the same "popping in" quality as a moon gate and asked about it.
You: Non-milletians are not aware of continent warp, so they couldn't have warped in.
Me: Asked for clarification about what non-milletians know and gave reasons why. Then asked, since the game refers to 'the' milletian, whether we are the only one.
You: There are many milletians in Erinn going back a long time. Knowledge or not, continent warp might just be a milletian thing.
DDSN: Another game deals with the same issue in its own way.
Me: Took you at your word about only milletians having the ability and pointed out that milletians could carry people in on pets.
noigid15: The warp point is in the same known spot, so it could be guarded with a large force to subdue anyone that shows up.
You: The discussion has now shifted from moon gates to continent warp requiring milletians. A large enough force of milletians would be prohibitively difficult to assemble.
Me replying noigid15: the fallen storming through could wait until they've all made it through then, as a group, revive.
Me replying to you: (the whole business about carrying folks on pets while warping)
You: (It seemed like you were accusing me of being disingenuous and tricky but I chose to let it go assuming that I might be over reacting.) Anyway, you clarify the whole pet business, as I said earlier in this posting, and, to me at least, it seemed you implied that mixing game mechanics and lore should be avoided.
Me: I gave an example of such a case done by someone else, and suggested that this is the point of the post and others like it.
You: Actually, Owen used hot air balloons, not boats, and took the island in a couple days.
nomigid15: non-milletians cannot revive and so overwhelm the warp point guards.
me replying nomigid15: that's true but if the attackers are milletians, the pirates certainly aren't, so eventually they will be overwhelmed.
me replying you: I had forgotten about the balloons. Due to the problem of conducting such an operation with balloons and the fact that it was successful suggest that only a small force was needed. So only a small force of milletians would be needed as well. Constituting such a force would only require enough of a reward.
you: why are you still arguing?
me: huh? wait are you getting upset? I'm not arguing, aren't we just having a discussion?
you: no I'm not upset. You're the one being snappy?
me: Really? I had no idea, I try to avoid that, can you show me where?
you: You're trying to be clever and trap me. Anyway, here, your reply made me wonder. Let me review the thread. I set a trap; GOTCHA! I set another trap; GOTCHA!
me: (thinking "traps? what?" I thought this was a dialectic and not a contest.)
It's a cultural thing.
I was using a couple of distinctive forms of humour in both my comments that obviously aren't globally recognised. Now I know that in the UK and some parts of Europe, my earlier comment would be recognised as a form of slagging (the irish interpretation, not the offensive english version), but I also mixed this in with another particularly irish form of playful mocking which is usually only done with those you get along with, or are deliberately making an attempt to endear yourself to them. I, of course, completely forgot this was the internet(an unfortunate habit of mine), and that Americans don't use this humour at all as far as I'm aware.
As for my last comment, I'm pretty sure americans are familiar with some of the humour I was using there, but then again, I incorporated a f**kton of colloquial elements without even realising. I dont even know where to begin with explaining my last post to someone who doesnt get it. I think the best I can do to describe it is to say that none of what I wrote was literal, it wasn't a summary of my opinion on the thread(unlike what Helsa did) but a deliberately inaccurate ludicrous exaggeration of a fictional 3rd party's satire of what happened. There was a load of self-deprecating, irony, absurdism, more slagging, and probably a bunch of other forms of humour the names of which I'm not familiar with, cus I'm not some comedian, I was just joking around like I normally do irl.
Its kind of mad that I have to point out where I was being humorous and not here, but since I dont want any ill will, I guess I should. My first comment "lol this sounds like a trap" was basically a reference to that outdated joke about when a woman asks you to point out something wrong with what they did, that if you dont point it out you're in trouble, but if you do, then you're really screwed. Its usually told by an older man to younger one, ending with the quip "dont go falling for that trap." That was somewhat similar to the sort of scenario I found myself in, but since I was fairly sure Helsa wouldn't act like that, I felt it was safe to reference that joke. The next 2 paragraphs are me being serious with no humour at all ("Like you said..." and "literally nothing wrong..."), but everything after that is just sheer nonsense, until I get to the proper paragraph with "and then there came..."
Just to restress this, there was nothing literal about the humour. There were no "traps". I was not laying "traps". I was mocking my own tendency to write long bloated posts(like this one) that try to cover all bases. I was making fun of the way that I deliberately answered questions that weren't even asked, so that if people were going to ask them, I would have them already answered. I was joking at my own expense that I'm like some kind of crappy supervillain who evilly answers question in advance so they can go "Aha! But you see, I've already predicted that!" It was self-deprecation. I was mocking myself and my silly idiosyncrasies.
Do ye get it now? Realistically, this is entirely on me for forgetting I'm dealing with people from a bunch of different cultures. I try to keep my language and mannerisms as neutral as I can, but sometimes I slip up. Infact you wouldnt believe the amount of times I had to rephrase things in this post simply because I'd suddenly realise that expressions like "taking the piss" and "a mad yolk" mightn't be wildly used. Hell, there's probably a few that snuck in that I haven't copped on to yet, so I apologise if you come across anything else that causes annoyance here.
Don't be concerned. The primary contributors of this thread are from the British Isles and Canada; it will stay polite. If, however, you felt personally uncomfortable, in some way as a result, then, as we are famed to say in Canada: sorry.
* * *
I suspect that even in such situations this kind of chummy behaviour is reserved for those folks one has gotten to know first. Of course, with internet, you don't have the other elements of communication available, such as: body language, tone, facial expression, and so on, that one might employ in person with a total stranger when attempting to engage in a playful manner. Also, with internet one can get a false sense of familiarity with someone, much in the same way that happens when one meets someone famous; they feel they already know them.
I'm not a psychologist, but if I'm to take you at your word then this is the lens through which I'll try to view such things. Still, I don't think it is up to the reader alone to ensure civil behaviour. In my own case, I do try to employ a certain amount of latitude to whom I am reading but one cannot employ an infinite amount. On the other side of the coin, I try to remain polite always and, as best I can, add more language than would be necessary in a face-to-face conversation, due to the limitations of internet, when making a joke. If you look through my post history you'll see me employing <sarcasm>something sarcastic</sarcasm>, for example. The other thing to watch out for is that the history of internet is full of trolls being antagonistic and when called out on it, usually say "I was kidding". They usually show their hand when they then follow that with, "How could you be so stupid to not see that?" I'm not trying to lecture you, I'm explaining my behaviour and how I try to avoid misunderstandings.
* * *
Regarding this thread: on the negative side, I think, all the points have been made and there's really nothing more to be said. On the positive side, I think we all learned something, and that is the goal of a dialectic.
It's also used with people you've just encountered to try and appear amiable and approachable. I gave a good lot of indicators that it was humour, to the point where I was flummoxed that people weren't getting it, but as I said earlier it's entirely on me for forgetting about cultural differences. Its kind of depressing that you have to label your humour as humour like in that example you gave, but I see your point.
In retrospect, its actually pretty funny what happened here: I thought I had maybe gotten on your nerves, so I tried to be endearing and light hearted to show there was no negativity. Instead I'm accused of being frustrated and aggressive, bewildering me and sending me scrambling to try and correct the misunderstanding, which led to me doubling down on the humour and general goofiness thinking she'll DEFINETLY realise that its all in good nature now. Instead it ends up with the two of you like "What are you doing!? Why are you attacking us!?" and me like "What is going on here!! Why?! WHY IS THIS HAPPENING!?!" Its almost like a comedy. I'm sure some persons reading this page and laughing their off.
Yeah pretty much. One last thing though
I'll let that slide lol.