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Elves Being Better at Magic

Comments

  • scorpin99scorpin99
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,180
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    Froglord wrote: »
    This thread is going downhill because of a bias.

    In mabi's plot, only humans were specialized at being druids, and have received blessings favoring magic. Which in turn lead to developing stuff like Alchemy, which was basically an imitation of divine magic.

    The idea elves are good at magic was coined in during the release of Iria, but was gradually scrapped because anyone could be just as equally good at magic. Despite elves paying a higher Ap cost to train magic skills.

    Actually elves are the reason you have staves that don't require you to charge them, the entire region of connous was like the shylien nature reserve, so ancient elves had access to things like shylien and better magic equiptment. It was only after irrind's curse that this technology and magic knowledge was lost. So no, humans were not the only ones who specalized in magic, in fact ancient elves had better materials and better knowledge surrounding magic.

    Also alchemy is fomorian magic, the technology was just stolen and used by humans, it draws its power from the sun of the shadow realm, while our magic is the opposite basically. Alchemy uses Dark erg while we use Erg for our magic, its also why fomors can use alchemy without the use of cyclinders.
  • VrangoVrango
    Mabinogi Rep: 930
    Posts: 3
    Member
    What if there was just two new stats for ranged combat, accuracy: int based determining a hit rate instead of aim%, and evasion: a dex based stat chance to dodge any ranged skill, similar to how luck currently gives a dodge chance, but more solid, this way all ranged combat has a much more stat based fixed feeling this would effect archery, gunner, and ninja, but not for example, magic or alchemy, because they don't trigger range ping

    opinions?
  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,100
    Posts: 887
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    I have a thread for this.

    Guys, a forum with the same topic already exists. Should probably take this there.

    This thread is already here. Unless it gets merged with yours I don't think everyone is just going to move over to yours. :< Sorry.
    SylviaWolfe
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,390
    Posts: 106
    Member
    edited March 12, 2017
    scorpin99 wrote: »
    Froglord wrote: »
    This thread is going downhill because of a bias.

    In mabi's plot, only humans were specialized at being druids, and have received blessings favoring magic. Which in turn lead to developing stuff like Alchemy, which was basically an imitation of divine magic.

    The idea elves are good at magic was coined in during the release of Iria, but was gradually scrapped because anyone could be just as equally good at magic. Despite elves paying a higher Ap cost to train magic skills.

    Actually elves are the reason you have staves that don't require you to charge them, the entire region of connous was like the shylien nature reserve, so ancient elves had access to things like shylien and better magic equiptment. It was only after irrind's curse that this technology and magic knowledge was lost. So no, humans were not the only ones who specalized in magic, in fact ancient elves had better materials and better knowledge surrounding magic.

    Also alchemy is fomorian magic, the technology was just stolen and used by humans, it draws its power from the sun of the shadow realm, while our magic is the opposite basically. Alchemy uses Dark erg while we use Erg for our magic, its also why fomors can use alchemy without the use of cyclinders.

    Ancient elves aren't the same thing as current elves, heck current elves needed a human to write sticky notes for them to even remember what a chicken was. Going towards the whole hermit staff thing being because of elves is just laughable. I mean humans had Merlin on our side who did the same thing in knuckle form, and outside of that there are the Celtic staves that do the same thing via the help of a goddess.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,170
    Posts: 617
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    No one cares how detailed people go into the lores anymore anyways.
    We already have black haired elves and that didn't break the game just because it went against the "lore".
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,390
    Posts: 106
    Member
    Kaga wrote: »
    No one cares how detailed people go into the lores anymore anyways.
    We already have black haired elves and that didn't break the game just because it went against the "lore".

    The hair is considered a bad omen, them being a thing doesn't exactly go against the lore since they were already a thing.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,170
    Posts: 617
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    edited March 13, 2017
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    No one cares how detailed people go into the lores anymore anyways.
    We already have black haired elves and that didn't break the game just because it went against the "lore".

    The hair is considered a bad omen, them being a thing doesn't exactly go against the lore since they were already a thing.

    Getting a simple buff for elves that is related to magic won't kill the game. We already know elves are supposed to be good in both archery and magic. give me a break.

    I know DevCat didn't give us that kind of revamp (yet) because they are too lazy to bother with it or don't see it as a big deal, not because it goes against the kind of "lore" you speak of.

    I also know this thread won't exactly make DevCat give us a revamp for elves that's magic related, but it's a way to discuss ideas, just incase if there is a Q&A of DevCat like before.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    One thing to consider for magic is that it is generally similar play style across all races, while it has been stated that elves are advantageous at magic, that was only in the racial description. As for the lore and stating that ancient elves had access to advanced technology, materials and magic, the same can actually be said of ancient Partholon humans in the setting, who had access to an array of magic including the magical version of shock (demonstrated by Jenna in one of the cutscenes). In my opinion, magic should be one of the few play styles that should be homogenized for the three races, even in the lore, magic is a joint effort of many scholars from many races, it would stand to reason that while a specific race maybe be more attuned or more numb to magic, the play style and eventual outcome should be relatively close for each race. As it stands, elves have a slight advantage in the field given MP costs and other such small bonuses. As with any magic revamp, it typically applies to all races, so objectively, elves still hold the advantage until changes are made such that no race offer any bonuses for magic at all, so yes, elves are still better at magic, no matter how small that advantage may become.
    AlmostNotsuperSirRyu
  • Crisis1Crisis1
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,765
    Posts: 73
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    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.
    Sherri
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
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    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.

    If we're going to have different races, I'd prefer they be different in a meaningful, but balanced way (of course, I wouldn't have minded if only humans were available, but it's a bit late for that now). To put this another way, I like for there to be meaning, through lasting effects, in the choices we make in this game, whether they be choosing a side or choosing a race. There's very little of that in the game as it is.

    So that idea doesn't seem very good to me. It's not the worst thing they could do (certainly better than haphazardly slapping on more skills and talents in hopes that players forget about all the not-so-good parts of the game), but it wouldn't really make the game better either. I think that could be a last resort, but the changes that are coming don't seem to indicate any movement in that direction (thank goodness).
  • Crisis1Crisis1
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,765
    Posts: 73
    Member
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.

    If we're going to have different races, I'd prefer they be different in a meaningful, but balanced way (of course, I wouldn't have minded if only humans were available, but it's a bit late for that now). To put this another way, I like for there to be meaning, through lasting effects, in the choices we make in this game, whether they be choosing a side or choosing a race. There's very little of that in the game as it is.

    So that idea doesn't seem very good to me. It's not the worst thing they could do (certainly better than haphazardly slapping on more skills and talents in hopes that players forget about all the not-so-good parts of the game), but it wouldn't really make the game better either. I think that could be a last resort, but the changes that are coming don't seem to indicate any movement in that direction (thank goodness).

    Add a perk system.
    -Elves
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Archery Damage
    -Humans
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Melee Damage
    -Giants
    +10% Melee Damage
  • CassafrasCassafras
    Mabinogi Rep: 445
    Posts: 8
    Member
    I think Elves should have the benefit of a reduced casting time (say, 70 or 80% of the casting time of the other two races), and just a couple Elf-exclusive magic skills. Nature magic would be nice, maybe a spell that's somewhere between bolt and intermediate spells power-wise that throws sharp leaves or an energy ball at the target; a vine spell that functions similarly to crisis in that it pulls enemies close in to you (without doing much damage, but it gets them all in close for a shockwave or windmill); or maybe an Ent summon that functions like a Golem.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
    Member
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.

    If we're going to have different races, I'd prefer they be different in a meaningful, but balanced way (of course, I wouldn't have minded if only humans were available, but it's a bit late for that now). To put this another way, I like for there to be meaning, through lasting effects, in the choices we make in this game, whether they be choosing a side or choosing a race. There's very little of that in the game as it is.

    So that idea doesn't seem very good to me. It's not the worst thing they could do (certainly better than haphazardly slapping on more skills and talents in hopes that players forget about all the not-so-good parts of the game), but it wouldn't really make the game better either. I think that could be a last resort, but the changes that are coming don't seem to indicate any movement in that direction (thank goodness).

    Add a perk system.
    -Elves
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Archery Damage
    -Humans
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Melee Damage
    -Giants
    +10% Melee Damage

    That's a little bit better, though still really bland and boring, in my opinion. If the devs were to do this, I wouldn't say it's a terrible move, but I would call it lazy, and irreverent of the existing lore.
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,390
    Posts: 106
    Member
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.

    If we're going to have different races, I'd prefer they be different in a meaningful, but balanced way (of course, I wouldn't have minded if only humans were available, but it's a bit late for that now). To put this another way, I like for there to be meaning, through lasting effects, in the choices we make in this game, whether they be choosing a side or choosing a race. There's very little of that in the game as it is.

    So that idea doesn't seem very good to me. It's not the worst thing they could do (certainly better than haphazardly slapping on more skills and talents in hopes that players forget about all the not-so-good parts of the game), but it wouldn't really make the game better either. I think that could be a last resort, but the changes that are coming don't seem to indicate any movement in that direction (thank goodness).

    Add a perk system.
    -Elves
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Archery Damage
    -Humans
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Melee Damage
    -Giants
    +10% Melee Damage

    That's a little bit better, though still really bland and boring, in my opinion. If the devs were to do this, I wouldn't say it's a terrible move, but I would call it lazy, and irreverent of the existing lore.

    Wouldn't that give giants a 25% boost to melee damage with their current buff?
  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,100
    Posts: 887
    Member
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.

    I don't know an MMORPG that doesn't have some limit between races. If that was the case the only reason to pick another race would be for aesthetics.

    And don't worry I won't shoot you.
    Crisis1
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,865
    Posts: 57
    Member
    Cassafras wrote: »
    I think Elves should have the benefit of a reduced casting time (say, 70 or 80% of the casting time of the other two races), and just a couple Elf-exclusive magic skills. Nature magic would be nice, maybe a spell that's somewhere between bolt and intermediate spells power-wise that throws sharp leaves or an energy ball at the target; a vine spell that functions similarly to crisis in that it pulls enemies close in to you (without doing much damage, but it gets them all in close for a shockwave or windmill); or maybe an Ent summon that functions like a Golem.

    Elves come from the desert, they don't need a forest themed summon. Don't get all Mabinogi duel on me.
  • Crisis1Crisis1
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,765
    Posts: 73
    Member
    Cassafras wrote: »
    I think Elves should have the benefit of a reduced casting time (say, 70 or 80% of the casting time of the other two races), and just a couple Elf-exclusive magic skills. Nature magic would be nice, maybe a spell that's somewhere between bolt and intermediate spells power-wise that throws sharp leaves or an energy ball at the target; a vine spell that functions similarly to crisis in that it pulls enemies close in to you (without doing much damage, but it gets them all in close for a shockwave or windmill); or maybe an Ent summon that functions like a Golem.
    elves live in the desert.
    SirRyu wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Here's an idea.
    No race limit for skills and weapons :'). Please don't shoot me.

    If we're going to have different races, I'd prefer they be different in a meaningful, but balanced way (of course, I wouldn't have minded if only humans were available, but it's a bit late for that now). To put this another way, I like for there to be meaning, through lasting effects, in the choices we make in this game, whether they be choosing a side or choosing a race. There's very little of that in the game as it is.

    So that idea doesn't seem very good to me. It's not the worst thing they could do (certainly better than haphazardly slapping on more skills and talents in hopes that players forget about all the not-so-good parts of the game), but it wouldn't really make the game better either. I think that could be a last resort, but the changes that are coming don't seem to indicate any movement in that direction (thank goodness).

    Add a perk system.
    -Elves
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Archery Damage
    -Humans
    +5% Magic Damage +5% Melee Damage
    -Giants
    +10% Melee Damage

    That's a little bit better, though still really bland and boring, in my opinion. If the devs were to do this, I wouldn't say it's a terrible move, but I would call it lazy, and irreverent of the existing lore.

    Wouldn't that give giants a 25% boost to melee damage with their current buff?

    still won't out dps human FH
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,390
    Posts: 106
    Member
    edited March 13, 2017
    Crisis1 wrote: »

    still won't out dps human FH

    But you can already out dps FH with bash spam.
  • CassafrasCassafras
    Mabinogi Rep: 445
    Posts: 8
    Member
    edited March 13, 2017
    Elves come from the desert, they don't need a forest themed summon. Don't get all Mabinogi duel on me.
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    elves live in the desert.

    Only because of the curse of Irinid. Filia was originally a lush magical forest like the Shyllien Nature Reserve; most of the entire region of Connous was either thick forest or picturesque green prairie. The NPC Dr. Lambert theorizes that the Shyllien Nature Reserve even appearing again was a direct result of the curse of Irinid being broken. The ancient Elves lived in a forest thick with magic and used Shyllien, a powerful, unstable magical resource to great effect. Elves being especially good at magic and having access to long-lost mystical powers of nature makes perfect sense, it's the entire history of their people. It certainly makes a lot more sense than "they can shoot bows better".
    SherriSylviaWolfe
  • SirRyuSirRyu
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,390
    Posts: 106
    Member
    edited March 13, 2017
    Cassafras wrote: »
    Elves come from the desert, they don't need a forest themed summon. Don't get all Mabinogi duel on me.
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    elves live in the desert.

    Only because of the curse of Irinid. Filia was originally a lush magical forest like the Shyllien Nature Reserve. Elves being especially good at magic and having access to long-lost mystical powers of nature makes perfect sense.

    Apparently it was actually a prairie not a forest.